Exactly. The entire narrative the crypto is just an alternate currency with no product is a farce. The product is the black market. It’s used for terrorists, hackers, traffickers, cartels
I keep hearing this over the past decade with bitcoin, yet here we are, up 1,371% in the past 5 years alone. I’m far from a tech bro but I think it’s insane to not have a small position in BTC as part of your portfolio.
Hang on Paul! Whoa Nelly. The energy sector and their shareholders are a key user surely. I known you mean ‘practical’ but we don’t live in a practical world atm
According to the University of Cambridge's Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index, crypto miners, primarily Bitcoin miners, consume around 121 terawatt-hours of electricity annually, comparable to the electricity usage of a small country like the Netherlands. All to produce absolutely nothing.
For something with as much intrisic value as a pet rock, how much energy is wasted? How much pollution generated? Crypto literally is the worlds most wasteful activity ever conceived.
According to the University of Cambridge's Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index, crypto miners, primarily Bitcoin miners, use a significant amount of energy, consuming around 121 terawatt-hours of electricity annually, comparable to the electricity usage of a small country like the Netherlands
This is supposed to be in support of botcoin: However, overall, the banking system requires more energy than Bitcoin. But keep reading...There are relatively few Bitcoin transactions compared to the billions of traditional banking payments made daily. So billions use more than a few. Shocking.
Here is why looking at transaction numbers alone isn't really an apt comparison.
But, aside from Nic's points there, I'd also say:
1. Look at what/where most of those trad txns take place.
2. It makes more sense to spend dollars and hold bitcoin, this is Gresham's Law.
Well, neither are really emitting a lot "per-transaction".
"Energy per transaction" makes no sense as a metric, as btc network emissions are a function of difficulty adjustment and block confirmation, not transactions.
A txn is just a signed msg over http, and can be an aggregate of 1000s of txns.
In the United States, Bitcoin mining consumes about 93 GL to 120 GL of water every year, equivalent to the average water consumption of 300,000 U.S. households or a city like Washington, D.C.Nov 30, 2023 https://www.greenpeace.org
Tell that to all the actual Americans who lose power while mines are guaranteed power over actual citizens. And by the way, you're telling lie after lie.
Please point out an actual lie. I would encourage it actually, there at 13 peer-reviewed articles above and a scientific rebuttal would add to the intellectual value of the conversation.
Sure honey, nothing and I mean absolutely nothing in the entire cradle to grave value chain can be bought with crypto.
No one will accept fairy dust for payment for anything.
Period.
Categorically false. Even over Shopify, crypto payments have generated over $50M in sales, and saved merchants over $1M in fees that normally go to payment processors.
The name is the lie. The 'coin' is taken by many to mean money. But as Krugman implies, it's not money at all. Crypto's value is based on a belief that it's valuable much like DJT or Gamestop, companies that have no intrinsic business value. Doesn't mean you can't make money here. But it's not money
To be fair, the wealthy have had tools at their disposal to hide their wealth from governments for centuries. Not legal but a common practice. It may become increasingly important for many others to do the same and crypto could provide that tool. Criminal trickle down
I agree with you on DJT and crypto, however GameStop has business value. Profitable last year, profitable this year and will continue to increase profitability over the years.
Went from losing 600 million a year to making +100 million this year when all said and done
Do not agree. I want the option to hold a currency that's not controlled by a central bank, to hold a fully digital currency subdivisible into any amount. Why should hat not be allowed? No one bans the USD just cos criminals use it. Crime is an argument for regulation, not for banning crypto.
Of course it is. Movement of money or theft of money, which is what happens every time a naïve person "invests". If it looks incomprehensible, it's a scam.
yeah because what i really want in my super illegal crime payments is a permanent record of the transaction inscribed on a monument that will then be passed around the internet forever. bitcoin is dogshit for crime
No better reflection on the use of crypto being for illegitimate desires than the fact that musk, trump, and his band of thieves, crooks, and cons are pushing it. trump NFTs anyone?
The advantage of crypto that the distributed blockchain requires no central authority with transactions verified by many miners running their own computers to me always seemed like a negative. I want a paper trail and accountability from a bank. If something goes wrong with my money, I can turn to.
I hope crypto does not contribute to the next financial crises but it sure has a lot of similarities to dot com and housing crises origins. People are getting rich for nothing but getting in on the action. Popular with the masses, TV ads Internet. Politicians, billionaires getting theirs. Energy...
It doesn’t allow the nearly 2B people on earth who are “unbanked” to participate in financial transactions? Interesting, because that occurs every single day globally, and most of those transactions are not criminal.
That feeling when you retweet the article on spec from the headline, then panic that it's by an unreliable actor, then are relieved that it's Paul Krugman.
The section I linked is about alternative monetary systems unburdened your willingness to invest. It’s open source software. If this is the depth of your read I’m not surprised you haven’t found anything.
No legitimate use cases means it is a bubble and the little guy will get burned at sometime. Buyer beware... A lot of wise guys involved in this crypto insanity..
I agree. That is my reaction too. When I ask an investor what it’s advantage is, they start describing a currency. We already have those! “But my brother made a lot of money investing in crypto”
Not only does it cause significant pollution and needless energy consumption, it is reaching high levels of speculation tied to securities such as Tesla stock which may destabilize the economy when the inevitable bubble burst occurs. The prospect of the government purchasing crypto is worsening this
Hmm.. I've got this great little company with an amazing product. If only I could get an influx of cash then I could rapidly expand and build this out to a medium/large company, creating many more jobs and contributing to the economy.
THAT is the primary use case for the stock market.
Not really. The bottom line is still speculation due to the unknown. Creating more jobs but at the same time create uncertainty (job security). Look around, many startups with VC funding but where do they end up? Let alone getting listed.
I'm not saying it's always successful, only that large scale funding is a big use case for the stock market.
Now if you want an actual use case for Crypto, XRP is one example. It's a fast way for banks to settle transactions across the planet. Next fastest option is pallet of cash on a plane.
Meanwhile, at the opposite extreme, we have people pushing crypto on people as an alternative to fiat currency, ignoring its instability. If people want to put their money on this roulette wheel, so be it. But those who do need to be properly informed that is what they're doing.
No doubt. They are completely ignoring the money laundering as well as the high frequency trading among meth-addled cryptobros that goes on, too. So much diversity!!!
Worth reading: The Jennifer McAdam book about OneCoin; a complete fraud, pretending to be a crypto currency, started by a (probably now deceased) Bulgarian.
Horrible results in poor places as diverse as parts of Scotland and East Africa.
Can’t it be all those things? digital gold.
speculative asset.
crime facilitator.
What is the prize at the end of the rainbow for caring about it? Just ignore it. It’s easier to trace than Benjamins so, we should welcome the crime. Should be self-correcting.
Of course Trump administration wants to make money laundering easier. Trump himself received a "loan" from Russian Vneshtorgbank through Deutche Bank, which in Germany was qualified as money laundering.
People in countries like Argentina, Venezuela & Turkey, who have currencies dealing with hyperinflation, do have a very valid use case, simply as a store of value. 🤷♂️
In argentina i’ve heard it’s mostly dollars, but more people are starting to use crypto too. And considering that bitcoin has gone up by 1300% over the last 5 years relative to USDs, I’d say that’s a better store of value. 😉
Think about how hard you’ve been pressured to buy dollars (or your local currency) by advertisements and executives. Ever? How many are buying ads on tv and radio to push this myth? Tells me something..
If a product needs advertising, be it snacks, gambling, toys, alcohol, tobacco, then it is bad for you.
No one advertises beans, for example, except magic ones!
You're so out of touch Paul, you're making a laughing stock of yourself. Do you know more than Larry Fink & other major financial people. You and @elizabethwarren2.bsky.social played a YUGE part in Kamala losing. Look at the Bloomberg data on voters who hold #Bitcoin & #Crypto. Wedge Issue & DUMB!
Goeie link met zo'n email harvester. Wat een nonsense. Je kan gewoon legaal betalen met Crypto. Natuurlijk is er criminaliteit maar dat is met fiat ook.
There is a group of people who want the Federal government to by a massive amount of crypto and hold onto it for 10 years. That is nothing but a scheme to convert crypto holdings into cash so that they can use to buy things, which can't be done with crypto. I have a friend who invested in
Convincing Argument with one caveat: if I had to recommend to a serial criminal how he should ask to be paid I would strongly recommend to avoid Bitcoins. Why? The Blockchain is proof of ALL Transactions. Once a link of one Transaction to a Person is established, this will uncover ALL payments.
Hmm, most Bitcoin wallets automatically generate a new address for each transaction. This makes it impossible to effectively track anyone. Only the wallet has the link between all created addresses.
Important Take-Away: Pseudonymity is NOT anonymity.
And the Way Banks convert Bitcoins etc into "real money" - how they identify (or not) individuals cashing crypto out - Makes or Breaks the usefulness of Crypto for either Criminals or Law Enforcement.
No need for banks to convert BTC into fiat currencies. There are P2P exchanges and OTC platforms where buyers and sellers transact directly. For small amounts, there are ATMs that don't require identification.
Why not print $500 bills to make it easier for warlords to pay for drugs and weapons? Those suitcases and pallets would weigh less. The value of the dollar would soar and the Euro would fall. (The Euro has benefited from its 500 note use in illegal transactions.) Cheap French champagne for everyone!
Taken literally, nothing illegal can be legitimate ("conforming to the law or to rules").
However, there's an awful lot of stuff that is illegal that is right to do. E.g., using crypto to fund abortion clinics after the Trump administration pressures banks to cut them off.
Crypto is basically selling negative externalities. It’s the villains from Captain Planet who made factories that produced nothing but pollution. It’s a greenhouse gas futures market.
@pkrugman.bsky.social have you looked into cross border payments with stablecoins? A lot of innovation happening there trying to drive money transfer costs to 0
Only foolish and uninformed criminals will use Crypto (Bitcoin and a couple of others only). A crypto transaction in a public ledger is akin to posting a Facebook video of the crime.
Open source crypto does flip the power equation on bankers and financial intermediaries and that’s not a crime.
I'm so glad you pointed out the complete reversal crypto-libertarian bros did on government regulation once they realized their scam wasn't making them all ultra wealthy. That's when they demanded the feds prop up and normalize its use.
I followed what was being said about Bitcoin at the start. Everything I read in support of it sounded like it was written by the same people who promote fake medicine. My rule of thumb is that if you're claiming a cure-all, you're selling a scam. 1/?
Still, I did eventually play around a bit with crypto. Did a bit of trading. Did a bit of buying and selling actual stuff. Did a bit of mining. Did a bit of blockchain analysis.
Realized that I can't legitimately call it profit when my gains are funded by the loss of others rather than via actual productive endeavour. So I got out.
Now most of what I read looks like salvation literature. Another rule of thumb is that if someone is selling salvation, it's a scam. 🧵
Bitcoin isn't the only crypto.
Look at Ripple / XRPL / $XRP and soon Ripples stable coin.
They're going to make moving large amounts of money cross borders, much quicker, much cheaper and more transparent.
That's just 1 example.
Cash/traditional banking has crooks. Crooks aren't exclusive to crypto.
"Bitcoin hit a record high above $106,000 on Monday after Donald Trump suggested he plans to create a U.S. bitcoin strategic reserve similar to its strategic oil reserve, stoking the enthusiasm of crypto bulls."
Besides that, the US have tried crypto long before tramp and that didn't run either because they don't have the expertise of Ripple's #XRP for example 🙄
I don't know about that. He succeeded in selling out our national secrets, corrupting our Supreme Court destroying 50 years of women's rights. He will fail America, but he will do much damage.
Crypto is the means of payment and layers of LLC’s and partnerships will continue to keep financial criming anonymous. A Texas federal district court recently invalidated the Corporate Transparency Act which was passed to help the US government stop money laundering and related financial crimes.
Here’s a use case: instrument of wealth redistribution across partisan lines. If crypto ownership is skewed toward MAGA types and the GOP has control of our financial institutions the potential for wealth redistribution through fiat devaluation is unprecedented.
I could well be utterly wrong, but I think there's a use in evading non-free Governments imposing constraints on what individuals can do with their wealth - the particular example being China, where I think ordinary people can only put their savings in Chinese banks?
Criminals only use Monero now. Bitcoin is traceable and has horrible transaction times. It is obsolete. It's the horse and buggy of crypto. If crytpo investing wasn't just a Ponzi scheme we'd see an inverse relationship between these two currencies, but instead it's the opposite.
If too many people borrow too much in the real world and "invest" in crypto currencies, then I see that as a systemic risk to the world's financial system.
But what do I know. I never borrow anything so I don't exist.
I'm just talking about the obvious current state of affairs: bitcoin has found minimal use in legal transactions for real-world goods and services. It's all speculators and criminals.
(And I have not even raised the scalability problem inherent in the proof of work model.)
I see others cower and capitulate to the fascist demagogue, but I am committed to doing everything I can to keep Putin's saboteur out of the White House and to save our Democracy. If we do not stop Trump he will stop us.
It's pretty obvious that, under Trump, all sorts of crypto con artists will be given free rein. There will be a massive boom, followed by a gigantic crash that could outdo 1929. Rational governments, like the UK, need to make sure their economies are not devastated when this happens.
Crypto is not gold. It has no inherent value. Crypto is not a currency. No government says you can buy anything with it. It has value as a security if someone will buy it from you. Always a last sucker holding the million dollar tulip.
Personally, I think once China & Russia saw how easy it is to manipulate conspiracy idiots, they took the opportunity to make money out of nothing. I don't think is is a coincidence that Belt & Road happened at the same time that crypto started. The took advantage of distrust in western governments.
Isn't the reason why crypto is so useful to criminals the fact that traditional banking has now put systems in place to reverse transactions that were fraudulent or made under duress?
Comments
For another academic perspective on Bitcoin I hope folks will consider this book by @resistance.money & @rettlerb.bsky.social et al.
https://a.co/d/9KNGvDi
Just skip the f**king middle man and keep your damn cash.
It's crime-cash.
Because transactions are only anonymous if they never get converted to real currency.
And no criminal wants that.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60462182-tracers-in-the-dark
The Bitcoin network actually mitigates pollution (e.g. capping methane flares) and helps provide income (or prevent loss of funds) for renewables operations to expand:
https://bsky.app/profile/doublespends.xyz/post/3lchapyssxc2k
But, aside from Nic's points there, I'd also say:
1. Look at what/where most of those trad txns take place.
2. It makes more sense to spend dollars and hold bitcoin, this is Gresham's Law.
https://medium.com/@nic__carter/transaction-count-is-an-inferior-measure-fba2d5ac97f1
"Energy per transaction" makes no sense as a metric, as btc network emissions are a function of difficulty adjustment and block confirmation, not transactions.
A txn is just a signed msg over http, and can be an aggregate of 1000s of txns.
https://www.greenpeace.org
is this hydro?
Should note two things:
1. Greenpeace's "Change the Code" campaign, just ended, was funded by XRP.
2. Excess hydropower is often wasted, converting the excess into Bitcoin can help fund the operation rather than be net loss.
No one will accept fairy dust for payment for anything.
Period.
Went from losing 600 million a year to making +100 million this year when all said and done
Cryptocrap would be a pretty funny joke if it wasn't such an environmental disaster.
A Stop giving away our scam!
B This has to be legit or I'm gonna lose my ass!
reduce friction in illicit purchases.
make online scams, bribery, money laundering easier.
https://hackmd.io/@glasgow/SyKfWFgN1x#A-New-Monetary-Paradigm-Restructuring-for-Equity14
They will whack whoever it takes?
#CdnPoli #OpenForCorruption
Using block explorers, you can track anything cryptocurrency related.
Every transaction is recorded on the blockchain.
Most crimes are done with fiat money, as you can't track fiat money.
🤔
"We get the warhead and we hold the world ransom for - ONE MILLION DOLLARS - IN CRYPTO!!!"
Both are just investments.
Both are being exploited.
Wanna invest and make more money, take your pick, that’s it. You don’t need anyone to do it but if you do, then don’t do it.
THAT is the primary use case for the stock market.
Now if you want an actual use case for Crypto, XRP is one example. It's a fast way for banks to settle transactions across the planet. Next fastest option is pallet of cash on a plane.
https://heatmap.news/sparks/bitcoin-crypto-electricity-consumption
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
Worth reading: The Jennifer McAdam book about OneCoin; a complete fraud, pretending to be a crypto currency, started by a (probably now deceased) Bulgarian.
Horrible results in poor places as diverse as parts of Scotland and East Africa.
Keep your hands off my money 🤨💙💙💙🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Bitcoin is Pepsi to Gold’s Coca-Cola.
It’s the choice of a new generation.
speculative asset.
crime facilitator.
What is the prize at the end of the rainbow for caring about it? Just ignore it. It’s easier to trace than Benjamins so, we should welcome the crime. Should be self-correcting.
1. As a platform to commit fraud, and
2. To commit fraud
No one advertises beans, for example, except magic ones!
Period.
And the Way Banks convert Bitcoins etc into "real money" - how they identify (or not) individuals cashing crypto out - Makes or Breaks the usefulness of Crypto for either Criminals or Law Enforcement.
However, there's an awful lot of stuff that is illegal that is right to do. E.g., using crypto to fund abortion clinics after the Trump administration pressures banks to cut them off.
Period.
Open source crypto does flip the power equation on bankers and financial intermediaries and that’s not a crime.
Made a decent profit, but ... 2/?
Now most of what I read looks like salvation literature. Another rule of thumb is that if someone is selling salvation, it's a scam. 🧵
I'm not signing up to read the article but the headline is wrong at the very least.
Look at Ripple / XRPL / $XRP and soon Ripples stable coin.
They're going to make moving large amounts of money cross borders, much quicker, much cheaper and more transparent.
That's just 1 example.
Cash/traditional banking has crooks. Crooks aren't exclusive to crypto.
There are others. But you can buy actually legitimate things with bitcoin.
Cryptos job isn't just to buy things. It has a plethora of real world use cases.
https://prospect.org/power/2024-11-26-crypto-plot-against-americas-gold-reserves/
Republicans will let them literally raid fort Knox and hand the cash to a very few people who will know when to cash out.
America and all other investors lose.
Need lots of $ or G.O.L.D.
"Bitcoin hit a record high above $106,000 on Monday after Donald Trump suggested he plans to create a U.S. bitcoin strategic reserve similar to its strategic oil reserve, stoking the enthusiasm of crypto bulls."
He fails at everything he touches.
Besides that, the US have tried crypto long before tramp and that didn't run either because they don't have the expertise of Ripple's #XRP for example 🙄
There are dozens of zero/low cost fintech companies that enable that.
Including Paypal, for that matter.
And, with the biggest tech greedy grotesque boys controlling the online world, I just say F*ck❗️
It’s so blatant in my world ( IT ) that I have to hold myself back from screaming at the CryptoBros each time they start pontificating …
To say it did not end well would be an understatement.
But what do I know. I never borrow anything so I don't exist.
In a law-abiding world, the price of Bitcoin is $0.
Or a fully authoritarian one.
LOL
How do you plan to access it in prison?
(You: oh, is my phone a **computer**??)
Unreal.
If you accept the fact (and it is a fact) that bitcoin has law abiding use cases, everything you've said is wrong.
And if you accept the fact that not all laws are just, you are doubly wrong.
(And I have not even raised the scalability problem inherent in the proof of work model.)
Bitcoin is an innovative technology that is disrupting a very powerful legacy power structure (one that's hurting society I might add).
Of course they'll fight back ....
It's amusing to look at past innovations and see how this has played out. The first 9 minutes of this talk discuss this, I think you'd enjoy.
Anyway, you're worldview is simply wrong, but again, understandable.
https://x.com/DSBatten/status/1846205920381980725
Exacerbating the transfer of wealth from poor to 1%.
Join me. Read share, and support the plan.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/11/21/2287839/-We-Can-Stop-Trump?_=2024-11-21T11:19:50.000-08:00
It’s not perfect but with a wallet ID investigators can get pretty far in reconstructing many financial crimes.
/sarcasm
It's not about security or anonymity but avoiding legal consequences.
https://bsky.app/profile/fernieboy.bsky.social/post/3ldcflif4ek24
- https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/10/22/stripe-announces-1-1-billion-acquisition-of-stablecoin-start-up-bridge/
- https://developer.paypal.com/community/blog/pyusd-quick-start-guide/
But something tells me that you just don't like that real payment providers are using crypto now and will still call this fake
https://bsky.app/profile/phill.hallambaker.com/post/3lcngslwaek2f