Driving at 0mph saves the most lives. Some risk has to be accepted for people to go about their lives. Undoubtedly the blanket speed limit will be effective in some areas and unnecessary in others. A more targeted localised approach should have been used in my opinion.
Because we weren't consulted on a significant change & because it's part of the government's plan to force private car owners off the road - go read their transport manifesto!
It was pushed as a freedom issue, 'they' are trying to take away things you used to be able to have/do and make you feel bad about still wanting it.
That it is proving to be successful is largely being ignored as some still push the idea of a terrible blanket 20mph limits over all of Wales.
Has anyone else noticed that the typical angry far right want the rights to hurt people without any responsibility, it’s not just this issue it’s every issue
they want to do what they want to do and don't want anyone to even suggest they should change.
Out in the narrow lanes of west Cymru/Wales this summer so many more people in big cars refusing to reverse/pull over and shouting obscenities even with children in the car. I
Personally I don't like blanket speed limits as a answer to things, 20mph or less in appreciate places absolutely, 30mph otherwise and then up etc. But colour me surprised that it's a Tory rage fueled political monster doing the screaming that's campaigned for blanket 20mph itself.
Wales’s 20mph:
* no of people killed down 35%, serious injuries by 14.2%, slight 31%
* car insurance costs down
* universal support from 1st responders
* healthcare cost saving of £45.5m in 9m
* #AirPollution reduced
Wonder whether going 30 miles an hour versus 20 actually makes a difference to journey times. Mostly, it just means you catch up to the queue going at 2 miles an hour at the next junction slightly earlier.
The proposed changes to 20 mph on some roads around my area are causing the same indignation by many. It's the same people who complain about everything.
Probably because complaining is easy? Simply press a button.
To support you need to read, listen, consider and discuss. Then you might realise supporting might just prevent accidents, save injuries and give you other windmills to tilt at.
As France are currently actioning so well.
Next please.
I’m in favour, but it would be helpful if cars had (overridable) speed limiters. I’d like to be able to drive without constantly checking my speedo. I’m sure the technology is available.
Both mine and my husband’s cars have one, and neither of them are fancy (A golf and a Focus). Your car might even have it without you realising – it was ages before I realised my car had it
That was the one thing I disagreed with in the article. The taxi driver had a point - but the difference is that he probably wouldn’t want a speed limiter.
If you drive exclusively in built up areas I imagine cruise control or a conventional limiter is enough - but in rural or semi-rural areas you are constantly moving between different limits.
Surveys consistently show that many people overestimate their ability at many things, including driving (e.g. way more than 50% of people will say they "above average" at driving). They will think 20mph is unnecessary for them but in truth they are the danger.
Playing Devil's Advocate, 10mph also saves lives, so does 5mph, and so does banning cars from roads. It's not that people don't understand that slowing saves lives, it's that a balance must be found. Some people just believe 20mph is not the correct balance. Esp. not as a blanket policy.
Because anything that is well intentioned is immediately a source of jealousy.
Trying to be healthy and reduce traffic on the roads by cycling? Monster!
Wanting cars to slow down and reduce deaths? Scumbag!
Wanting to not kill animals by proxy for your taste buds? You piece of shit!
The defining factor for my travel time is how long and how often I'm in a queue at traffic lights. 20mph, well 30kph (18.6mph) as I live in Germany just means that it takes slightly longer to reach the back of the next queue and has little or no effect on overall journey time
You shouldn't stereotype people I agree. Just because he looks as thick as mince doesn't mean he is but he has to meet us halfway by not opening his mouth and proving that he is.
One questions - are cars actually designed to drive at a constant 20 mph n gear 2/3. 🤷♀️My experience of constantly balancing the gas pedal is NO and at 24 mph you get a ticket. I now do not have a friend in London who hasn't received a speeding ticket. 🙄
I don't find it so hard and no one I know has complained about being fined. Maybe you should think of 20 mph as a limit rather than a target. If you back off a little you'll just get to the back of the next traffic queue a few seconds later
So 1 in 4 drivers in London need to drive more carefully. Perhaps many of them do after receiving a fine. In which case it has worked. I'm more interested in how many lives & costs too the tax payer it has saved
That is a significant amount in a short period of time. Not sure that they are dismissible figures myself. They are also figures I do not think you knew until I told you. My point is the lack of curiosity in this Guardian article in asking any questions - typical dismissive self righteousness🙄
More people being fined vs lives being saved - I know where my priorities lie. I didn't know the figures, correct, but that 1:4 drivers were caught going too fast shows how much the fines were needed, not the reverse & 3:4 drivers have managed to keep to the limit - or at least haven't been caught 😉
Ford made intelligent speed limiting (not just standard cruise-control-like speed limiting) standard on all Ford Focus models in 2018: https://etsc.eu/all-ford-focuses-sold-in-europe-will-feature-intelligent-speed-assistance/
Intelligent speed limiting is turned on by default on all new cars sold in the EU since July. You just need to press a button to turn it off.
Yeah - that's a logical fallacy called anecdotal evidence. What % of cars in tge road have speed limiters is the question. I agree that if they work then that will be the solution. I am still left with the question why 20 mph not 21 mph or 19 mph🤷♀️
Most introduced them as standard from 2022 as part of the legislation from the EU, it was first proposed in 2018, so most car companies have been introducing it across their range since then. Exact numbers are almost impossible to come by, but it's very common.
That depends on the car. I expect city cars, vans etc are geared to run in stop/start city traffic whereas some SUV or saloon might be geared more for higher speeds.
My friends are all responsible women drivers over 60 who never had tickets - they now all have a tickets and had to go on speed awareness courses generally did 24 mph - hence I suspect a problem.
So careful drivers over 40 years with 0 testosterone need to slow down 🙄 25% of all cars in London have received a 20 mile an hour ticket in 6 years. You are not even curious - I bet you even live in the country where 70% of all accidents happen (mostly due to speeding)🙄
Anybody who has been on a driver improvement scheme should see how much 20mph saves lives. If anybody needs a further incentive, imagine being that guy who hit a child at 30mph.
it's not a strict left versus right issue. both sides have a duty to not paint it as such. it's completely ingenuine to do so. most of those against it aren't against it in principle, it just hasn't been implemented very well.
i've met people across the political spectrum who don't like it. some of the places it's been implemented feel unnecessary, other places it hasn't been brought in it should be. the left (of which i'm part) doesn't seem to be learning that labelling everyone you disagree with a bigot isn't working.
People don’t like change. I find a lot of the older generation feel like it’s “woke” and don’t like being told what to do. When it was first introduced 20mph felt way too slow compared to what you’re used to. Now though, when I drive in 30mph residential areas in England it feels too fast.
I’m guessing it’s more of a blanket application in Wales, but there’s definitely more and more of the 20 zones in England as well. I don’t have a problem and truly residential areas they’ve been popping up without notice in places they seem unnecessary
Because to many motorists, their own convenience matters more than everyone’s lives. They’re the most spoilt demographic in society and we continue to pander to them like screaming babies.
Unfortunately many people don't realise the extent to which people in the developed world have been brainwashed by the car industry into thinking cars are an extension of your person. Governments too, which led to the decimation of public transport. We must make car alternatives much much better
Strangely,that mentality isn't that prevalent here in Germany. Once you get into town/cities the speed is 30kph (18mph). Where I live there is even a street that cyclists have priority with a speed limit of 20kph. Decent public transport and cycling infrastructure.
Not everywhere-it’s got much worse than it used to be. Cycling infrastructure and low speed yes, but public transport outside of cities is hit and a lot of miss.
Draconian is an adjective meaning "of great severity". So, I'm not sure that fits. Unnecessary is subjective, and you appear to be defining the inconvenience of you having to set off a little earlier as a priority higher than lives saved by driving a little slower.
When was the last time you were in Wales?
The 20mph limit is only on residential streets in towns.
You can drive the 140 miles from the Severn Bridge to Fishguard and you won't see a single 20 sign.
About 3 weeks ago oddly enough on a jaunt to get a e-Bike from a seller in Monmouth.
I live just over the border in Hereford and there was a bit of confusion between me and my brother who was driving where these 20mph zones where & we seeming wherent the only ones as others stuck to 20 as well
'The experience in Wales is a lesson for the wider UK and beyond. Evidence-based policy does work, but you have to own it, explain it and stay the course. It costs political capital, and politicians need to be brave. In a world where facts and evidence matter less and less, it is all the more vital'
Sadly a lot of these opponents are not interested in evidence or reason. Oxford closed off a bunch of rat runs and so many idiots convinced themselves this was a global conspiracy to stop people traveling that they shelved it.
Because gammon is (are) easily brought to the boil.
There are plenty of 20mph speed limits all around Britain, but because it was a Labour administration that brought it into Wales it must be the work of the Devil himself!
I spent 2 weeks in North Wales in the summer and found the 20mph easy!
Funnily enough it was the Tories in Wales that first chaired the 20mph idea, they also voted for it, apart from RT Davies who abstained. My previous local Tory MP supported it, until the wind changed. They really are hypocrites and it's definitely not a blanket 20mph which Tories claim it is.
they didn't start the fuss until the work had actually been done - tho they did not support the very final bill, yet supported everything up until then. Totally political because they could see objections to 20mph and traffic calming and pollution reduction schemes in England
Most of the people who squeak about the 'tyranny of 20mph zones' and '15 minute cities' are the same ones who post interminable, 'Wasn't it great when you could walk to the shops?" memes. Is this a new verse for that Rage Against The Machine song? 😆
Comments
It's not rocket science.
That it is proving to be successful is largely being ignored as some still push the idea of a terrible blanket 20mph limits over all of Wales.
Out in the narrow lanes of west Cymru/Wales this summer so many more people in big cars refusing to reverse/pull over and shouting obscenities even with children in the car. I
That's all.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
Businesses will not invest in a place with a dysfunctional economic infrastructure. Decline and fall follows.
* no of people killed down 35%, serious injuries by 14.2%, slight 31%
* car insurance costs down
* universal support from 1st responders
* healthcare cost saving of £45.5m in 9m
* #AirPollution reduced
To support you need to read, listen, consider and discuss. Then you might realise supporting might just prevent accidents, save injuries and give you other windmills to tilt at.
As France are currently actioning so well.
Next please.
Most cars under 40 years old are fitted with it.
Has anyone measured how safe it is for people who've become accustomed to 20 MPH who then visit other places where it's 30?
Thought not. What smug would want to run that study?
Trying to be healthy and reduce traffic on the roads by cycling? Monster!
Wanting cars to slow down and reduce deaths? Scumbag!
Wanting to not kill animals by proxy for your taste buds? You piece of shit!
...he's a Tory, isn't he!
Intelligent speed limiting is turned on by default on all new cars sold in the EU since July. You just need to press a button to turn it off.
It can easily double the time of any journey through Wales.
That is why it is detested. Because it's seen as unnecessarily Draconian
The 20mph limit is only on residential streets in towns.
You can drive the 140 miles from the Severn Bridge to Fishguard and you won't see a single 20 sign.
I live just over the border in Hereford and there was a bit of confusion between me and my brother who was driving where these 20mph zones where & we seeming wherent the only ones as others stuck to 20 as well
There are plenty of 20mph speed limits all around Britain, but because it was a Labour administration that brought it into Wales it must be the work of the Devil himself!
I spent 2 weeks in North Wales in the summer and found the 20mph easy!