Crossrail is not a Tube, it has a different pricing scheme to every other line on this poll. It's why calling it 'the Elizabeth Line' is so egregious IMO. - ThreadSky

stephenkb.bsky.social • 84 days ago

Crossrail is not a Tube, it has a different pricing scheme to every other line on this poll. It's why calling it 'the Elizabeth Line' is so egregious IMO.

Reposted from YouGov

Which is the best Tube line, according to Londoners?

Elizabeth 29%
Victoria 9%
Jubilee 7%
Overground 7%
District 4%
Central 3%
Metropolitan 3%
Northern 3%
Piccadilly 3%
DLR 3%
Bakerloo 1%
Circle 1%
Hammersmith & City 1%
Waterloo & City 0%

yougov.co.uk/travel/artic...

Comments

robsnottweeting.bsky.social•84 days ago

Unfair methodology. The Waterloo and City Line is actually the perfect line as long as you fall within some very narrow parameters.

snoopster.bsky.social•84 days ago

I like to think 100% of the Waterloo and City Line users voted for it, but it still didn't amount to enough to score 1%.

jamestplunkett.bsky.social•84 days ago

I guess this is also why the Heathrow signage is infuriating- London Underground one way and Elizabeth Line completely separately signed

acuity.design•84 days ago

How it semantically changes from being an underground train to a railway train is very odd.

DrEdBridges.toot.wales.ap.brid.gy•84 days ago

@stephenkb.bsky.social #MakeTheElizabethLineCrossrailAgain

hywelroberts2.bsky.social•84 days ago

It's also awful. Used it all the time to get to Paddington or Ealing and it was always broken.

blackbeardsghost.bsky.social•84 days ago

I like the cut of your jib Bush

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

Thanks! :D

dburx.bsky.social•84 days ago

The Elizabeth line pricing is the same within Zone 6, and it was a poll of Londoners. If you're not within Zone 6, you're not a Londoner.

The real objection is the Central line not being at the very very bottom.

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

No, it's not, it's more expensive to get to Heathrow (in Zone 6) via Elizabeth than Piccadilly.

dburx.bsky.social•84 days ago

O, yeah, true, but that's to preserve an existing feature - ripping off the tourists with the world's most expensive railway journey ever. Londoners know that scam. TFL needs to get the money somehow!

mrsivb.bsky.social•84 days ago

It is and I didn't realise this until I did it. It is however much less soul destroying (and quicker) than the Piccadilly Line so I would rather take the hit.

jamesmoar.bsky.social•84 days ago

johnaharrison.bsky.social•84 days ago

Well said, Sir

drjdunnehowrie.bsky.social•83 days ago

Used to despise the Circle/District/HS&C maze of death. But since moving to West Ham I've grown to love the District. Never too packed. Nice combo of over and under. Roomy trains. Amazing distances covered (Richmond to Barking FFS!)

stephencobden.bsky.social•84 days ago

It is odd to include the Purple train, overground and DLR, but not the dangleway, croydon trams, or Thameslink.

(that said, for train nerd cred I feel that I should take the position that "the Hammersmith & City isn't a tube line", even if I don't actually believe it)

aremay.bsky.social•84 days ago

I want to say how proud of myself I am for not attempting to start an argument with you that the dangleway is in fact also part of the Tube

vandieviantland.bsky.social•84 days ago

"Purple Line" and nobody try to argue.

bhalla.bsky.social•84 days ago

If I do Bond St to Liverpool St via the Tube or Elizabeth line, doesn’t it cost the same? How would the ticket gates know which mode is used? Or do you mean the pricing outside fare zones, where tube fares don’t apply (but found tube map with Reading in z 6 which seems odd?). Am I missing something?

bhalla.bsky.social•84 days ago

I think LHR might be a special case, because the railway spur and stations are owned by HAL, which presumably charges some sort of extortionate access fee. But other zone 6 stations should cost the same on the Elizabeth line as on any other. Further into London, it’s basically used as a nicer tube.

ruckman1.bsky.social•84 days ago

Who is your favourite Lord?

Rings, Dance, Flies or War?

Phone in now!

stuartdodgson.bsky.social•84 days ago

Time.

geppy1953.bsky.social•84 days ago

What a stupid poll! How does anyone decide on what is the best tube line? What does that even mean?

iainl7.bsky.social•84 days ago

Contrary to the shit I’m being given for a flippant reply to Jonn earlier, I’m now adjusting to a nuanced position of “The Overground” wasn’t a Tube Line, because its name denotes it in opposition to The Underground. But The Windrush Line is; the rebrand is the death of The Overground as a thing.

matthew1butcher.bsky.social•84 days ago

this is the worst piece of polling i've ever seen

mckelvie.bsky.social•84 days ago

(mostly I'm still annoyed it cost me over double to get into town from Heathrow, assuming that as an obviously branded new tube line it would cost the same as Piccadilly.)

iainl7.bsky.social•84 days ago

The Heathrow Express, when compared to just doing six whole zones of the Piccadilly Line, really is one of the worst deals in minutes saved for pounds spent, there is.

mckelvie.bsky.social•84 days ago

I'm talking about the Elizabeth line, which only shaves ten minutes off the Piccadilly journey. Wouldn't even consider the Express these days.

iainl7.bsky.social•84 days ago

Wow, that’s even worse, then.

mckelvie.bsky.social•84 days ago

£12.80 for Elizabeth Line vs £5.50 for Piccadilly. £25 for the Express (which actually hasn't gone up as much as I'd thought in the last ten years).

iainl7.bsky.social•84 days ago

For that much, I’m definitely sitting on the Piccadilly for a bit.

petefrasermusic.bsky.social•84 days ago

Fifteen quid they tried to charge me. Fifteen quid. I took the dirty train for £4.50 or whatever instead.

paulchandler.bsky.social•84 days ago

I don't think it costs that via contactless does it? Must admit work pays when I've done it so not paid that much attention.

petefrasermusic.bsky.social•84 days ago

I’m not sure of the exact circs, but it did seem to be unavoidably that price.

mckelvie.bsky.social•84 days ago

I'M FUMING ABOUT THIS STEPHEN

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

What next? Is the Heathrow Express a 'Tube'?

mckelvie.bsky.social•84 days ago

My main reason for not counting the Overground is that the Tube was always characterised by the Underground logo, and there was a separate Overground one.

hindchristopher.bsky.social•84 days ago

killiemesoftly.bsky.social•84 days ago

It annoys me more that the Stansted Express isn’t even an Express!!!!

theangelremiel.bsky.social•84 days ago

My favourite tube line is the Stockton to Darlington railway

danielbundred.bsky.social•84 days ago

To be fair, 'Overground' is aptly named and still in the poll.

rickywlmsbong.bsky.social•84 days ago

yes. correct answer is the central line

nick-mann.bsky.social•84 days ago

Worked on Crossrail for 5 years and don't think I can let this one go .... Liz line very much part of the tube network imho.

The vast, vast majority of fares are the same as rest of the tube with some fiddling at the extremities of the line around the far western and eastern edges.

nick-mann.bsky.social•84 days ago

The 'it goes to Reading' argument also spurious. Central line goes to Epping, Metropolitan line goes to Amersham. In addition, vast majority of journeys on Liz line are made in the central tunneled section.

paulchandler.bsky.social•84 days ago

But they are counting all the journeys as rail trips aren't they.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/the-elizabeth-line-is-the-uks-busiest-railway-61344/

drsamaki.bsky.social•84 days ago

My late dad always objected to certain Underground lines being referred to as the “Tube”, as they were constructed using the cut-and-cover method. By this reckoning: Elizabeth line is a Tube line; The Circle, District, Hammersmith & City, and Metropolitan lines aren’t.

smaugsboots.bsky.social•84 days ago

completely coherent imo. a tube is a grade separated rail service administered by TfL

monicacparker.bsky.social•84 days ago

Leaving LHR late one evening, the Lizzie was cancelled. I asked a TFL employee if all the other Tube lines were cancelled too. I was *soundly* rebuked by her. 😂 ‘Who said the Tube was cancelled? The Elizabeth Line is not the Tube.’ Ok then! Lesson learned!

joestclairford.bsky.social•84 days ago

Disqualifying crossrail also leaves us with the correct answer to this question.

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

Indeed.

sachazarb.bsky.social•84 days ago

Where's @jonnelledge.bsky.social when you need him

jonnelledge.bsky.social•84 days ago

hang on he's changed his tune, we spent the whole of 2017 arguing about whether the DLR or Overground were tube or not

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

No, I haven't, the DLR and the Overground use the same pricing structure, they are therefore a Tube line. It's more expensive to use the Lizzy Line than the Picc to get to Heathrow!

danielphilips.bsky.social•84 days ago

The Picadilly line also has different pieces to get to Heathrow than other zone 6 stations as its peak all day.

danielphilips.bsky.social•84 days ago

The overground think uses NR fares some some station pairs too.

missmc.bsky.social•84 days ago

Wouldn’t that mean it’s a tube in the sections where it’s tube pricing and a train where it isn’t?

tpgroberts.bsky.social•84 days ago

Where does wombling free fit into this?

storywonker.bsky.social•84 days ago

It's jammed into to the area around Wimbledon Common, as any fule kno

tpgroberts.bsky.social•84 days ago

Have you ever noticed Wombles have eyes on the front of their head? Like predators? Adds an extra dimension to "making good use of the things that we find... things that the everyday folk leave behind..."

jonnelledge.bsky.social•84 days ago

I'm not saying that's a bad argument but I swear to god we did like four bits of content on this and you never once mentioned pricing

sachazarb.bsky.social•84 days ago

I'm going to have to find does podcasts

jonnelledge.bsky.social•84 days ago

it was only one podcast, then we wrote multiple blogs explaining our positions. that might actually have been the trigger for why YouGov started polling this stuff in the world place, to be honest. anyway, knock yourself out

dlynch.bsky.social•84 days ago

Doesn't a Tube line need to go underground, at least a bit? Seems like that should be definitionally baked-in.

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

The DLR goes underground, Mildmay goes underground, Windrush goes underground, IIRC Weaver goes underground for all of five minutes.

alastairmeeks.bsky.social•84 days ago

The DLR is basically not just above ground but raised well above ground level!

Though I agree with you that what is a tube can't be defined by TfL's map. Otherwise the Windrush line would have switched between not being a tube and being a tube and back again.

jonnelledge.bsky.social•84 days ago

The Mildmay doesn't go underground, it goes through tunnels, but lots of things go through tunnels

tenisonblue.bsky.social•84 days ago

I think that argument is still ongoing

https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3lcnbkohpes2r

tenisonblue.bsky.social•84 days ago

It appears @stephenkb.bsky.social himself just beat me to it

habibabanu.bsky.social•83 days ago

Freaked me out that it had a different pricing scheme then I googled and it basically doesn’t for central London.
Totally counts as a regular line

benstanley.eu•84 days ago

If an *overground network* can be a tube line, I suppose anything is possible

barrymcgee.dev•84 days ago

uncertainworld.bsky.social•84 days ago

...wombling free.

vandieviantland.bsky.social•84 days ago

Wombles can also come and go via the tram these days...

So many ways to be free.

ockamsrazor.bsky.social•84 days ago

If this piece of work arrived in my inbox I would not sign it off.

ockamsrazor.bsky.social•84 days ago

Who commissioned this work and what was the brief?

Transparency gives credibility or at least accountability.

katebevan.com•84 days ago

I am here for this very nerdy beef

binsmuth.bsky.social•84 days ago

Seeing Messrs Bush and Elledge scrapping about it really did feel like a throwback to pre-X days.

petergeoghegan.bsky.social•84 days ago

how did I not know that the Elizabeth line has a different pricing structure?!?

surfblue99.bsky.social•84 days ago

It doesn't though really. There's a premium for Heathrow (also the case for the Piccadilly line) & different fares apply outside zone 6 but that's also the case on the met line. Otherwise it's treated as part of the underground.

yorkshirered72.bsky.social•84 days ago

The Victoria line is like riding thru hell in summer 😰😰😰 what's the criteria ?😂

barrymcgee.dev•84 days ago

What's even more egregious is that every Elizabeth Line roundel includes the word "Line" when none of the others do.

Also, I'm sorry if you didn't previously notice this as how you can never unsee it. 🫠

mikecookwrites.bsky.social•84 days ago

Hmm...

joxley.jmoxley.co.uk•84 days ago

Maybe it's the Elizabeth Line Line, like Battersea Power Station Station.

rich-bryant.uk•84 days ago

Maybe it's because passengers called Elizabeth got uncomfortable, with apologies to the Line family of Eastbourne and their lovely daughter.

rich-bryant.uk•84 days ago

all the Victorias can just deal with it.

hectorkidwell.bsky.social•84 days ago

& "PIN Number"/"PAT Testing" etc

joxley.jmoxley.co.uk•84 days ago

My local council tax portal refers to a "Personal PIN Number", which is double duplication.

hectorkidwell.bsky.social•84 days ago

⬆️ borderline hate crime 😂

hepez.bsky.social•84 days ago

The extraneous “Line” amounts to defacement of the tube map, a bona fide classic of British design. I can’t look at it without “Look how they massacred my boy!” wincing. It boils my piss so much that, save for running late, I avoid using the Lizzy even if it makes my journey longer.

telecasper.bsky.social•84 days ago

Yes, this is SUCH a bad bit of design/copywriting/branding. It's incomprehensible how it survived scrutiny.

akshayb.bsky.social•84 days ago

Do you feel the same way about the new Overground lines? I appreciate the chart doesn't split them out

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

I think can reasonably claim not all of them are Tubes.

akshayb.bsky.social•84 days ago

On that I agree. In my dreams I have Thameslink = XR0, Elizabeth line = XR1, eventually Crossrail 2 = XR2; and I would probably have an OG1, OG2 etc naming convention for the Overground (and also the Northern City Line eventually)

daves1412.bsky.social•84 days ago

True I suppose

dinahrose.bsky.social•84 days ago

I do love it though. Whatever it is, it transforms the quality of life of those arriving in Paddington with business in London.

chrisbrooke.bsky.social•84 days ago

*Especially* for those coming from Oxford where the "business in London" involves getting drunk in Soho.

dinahrose.bsky.social•84 days ago

Today, my business involves the retirement party of Blackstone Chambers' legendary Senior Clerk, Gary Oliver.

reporterrwright.ft.com•84 days ago

My controversial opinion: because it was built with tunnel boring machines and has one track per tunnel, the Elizabeth Line is a tube. The same goes for the Great Northern and City Line into Moorgate.
We just need to call mainline-size tubes "big tubes".

reporterrwright.ft.com•84 days ago

My father had a book abotu the Great Northern and City called "The Great Tube". Maybe that's a good term.

reporterrwright.ft.com•84 days ago

So we have the sub-surface lines, deep tubes, great tubes and the overground.
Only the DLR and Croydon trams left to classify.

leongreen.bsky.social•84 days ago

Me too, it’s excellent

nicolekidmansnose.bsky.social•84 days ago

That's why we need Crossrail 2

snellarthur.bsky.social•84 days ago

Yes! It’s like a hyperspace thing.

lukebax.bsky.social•84 days ago

None of it is as good as Madrid’s metro, courtesy of @youngvulgarian.marieleconte.com

https://bsky.app/profile/scientificdiscovery.dev/post/3lcnf5a4xys2d

dinahrose.bsky.social•84 days ago

Exactly!

edwinheathcote.bsky.social•84 days ago

Also a little unfair on the Poor Waterloo & City. Which is an excellent line. Albeit short.

enlightbystand.bsky.social•84 days ago

I think the issue is that unless the Governor of the Bank of England became chair of the BFI, there isn’t really anyone who would see it as their most important line…

edwinheathcote.bsky.social•84 days ago

If you used to have to travel by train to Waterloo to get into central London, that last bit of the journey was a delight. Except, of course, in rush hour.

londonknee.bsky.social•84 days ago

If the Elizabeth Line is a tube, then so is Thameslink.

ianfogg.bsky.social•84 days ago

We need to talk about "Overground" too, is it 1/ Not a tube 2/ Multiple lines with names that no one knows 3/ A single underground line called Overground fyi @katebevan.com too

stephenkb.bsky.social•84 days ago

It’s none of the above. It is now multiple lines that will in a few years be widely accepted and known by their new, easier to understand names.

katebevan.com•84 days ago

I am a bit exasperated by the new Overground names: the whole point of unifying all those bits of lines into the "Overground" branding was to simplify it and make the map a bit less insane

nickcroom.bsky.social•84 days ago

No, they were grouped together to annoy me. (I am the biggest "different names for overground lines" advocate. Or I was till the dropped Goblin line)

katebevan.com•84 days ago

The Goblin line was *always* the correct line for that bit of the Overground and it's a travesty it didn't get made official

londondiscuss.bsky.social•84 days ago

Personally I loved the Waterloo and City line. It was fun.

jeromedavies.bsky.social•84 days ago

On the other hand it goes through a tube...

northernash.bsky.social•84 days ago

Is crossrail a tube, the most contentious thread on londonnerdsforum, closed by a mod after 13,245 pages of headed debate

magnusramage.bsky.social•84 days ago

Yes, but do Balrogs have wings?

magnusramage.bsky.social•84 days ago

(I should apologise, because in some circles asking that question is closing to trolling. I personally don't have an opinion about the winged status of the balrogs.)

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply