bottlenose.bsky.social
76 posts
32 followers
15 following
Discussion Master
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How many years before a population gets to be indigenous? Serious question. 250? 5,00? 1,000? 2,000? Give us a number. Or a range.
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Olas on Nostr also.
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Whenever the 18,392 person legal team hands over the 8 person engineering team is going to have their work cut out for them.
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Sure, problem is they have to. They have to build their own proprietary index to meet the UX demands of their users, crawl all relays themselves, and cache, at their cost. On ATProto that index is a commodity ALL clients have instant access to. So what Primal is doing is proving ATProto's point.
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Blossom helps with portability and resurrection, but end of day media on Nostr lives its own best life. Users have to care if their relays are being funded PLUS (and separately) their media storage. Then Primal says "hey we'll do it all", and voila, they've become an ATProto AppView and PDS host.
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Delete this account. Start again on Mastodon. It's a much better place for people with your concerns. (Though I'm guessing somehow you HAVE to be on utterly-terribly-managed Bluesky because ... reasons.)
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Thus making your life smoother, and proving my point--it's a win win!
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You absolutely are. As am I. And you can mute, block or nuclear block me, and I can mute, block or nuclear block you. Default is on, with option to turn off. Same with everything, including trending topics. This is the best way.
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I get you, but everyone has their tastes, if some people genuinely like it then who are the people that don't genuinely like it to argue. Best Bluesky can do is work hard on tools to let each person customise things.
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You can, I don't know, maybe like, turn them off?
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If this Bluesky app does that then change to another Bluesky app that doesn't. Voila.
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Then turn it off, or use another Bluesky app that doesn't have it. Goodness me.
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Any of what? Logging out and login again somewhere else 5 seconds later. Please.
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It in fact solves everything.
Your history is still there.
Your contacts are still there.
Your entire Bluesky life is as if nothing changed.
But you are under a new T&S team.
Voila.
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They don't have to leave. Other apps use the same Bluesky network. If you move to another app your history is still there, all your posts and replies are still there, all your contacts still there. No leaving at all. It's just viewing the network from another portal, run by a another T&S team.
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How about get some people together and make a Bluesky app with a different T&S team and use that app to access the Bluesky network instead of this one? Or just wait for someone else to do it to your liking. Soon there might be dozens of Bluesky apps, each with its own T&S team and policies.
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So use another client. You don't have to use bsky.app to use Bluesky. Each client can have its own t&s team. That team can ban whoever they want.
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Thanks, very helpful. Any idea how it might work with multiple relays, say some org spun up the big relay in addition to Bluesky PBC? I assume the AppView would choose the relay, and users would go with an AppView pulling from the relay they want? Or an AppView could offer choice of relay to users?
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Got it, sounds sensible, thanks! I suppose the host pointer issue would be solved by spinning the directory out into some sort of ICANN like body, as I saw mentioned some time ago. At least solved to a pretty decent degree.
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Thanks. Are you aware, can a banned user can migrate a PDS out of Bluesky? So Bluesky was hosting their PDS, they got banned for some community (not legal) issue, the bsky-dot-app AppView is ignoring their PDS, can they migrate it out and start again hosted elsewhere? Or is the PDS wiped?
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got it. have you seen any account that has been nuked by the bsky dot app AppView but is self-hosted and is visible on other AppViews via the big relay, thus illustrating that an AppView nuke is not necessarily a relay nuke?
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🫡 What I'm trying to dig up is an account that has been nuked by the bsky dot app AppView but is self-hosted and is visible on other AppViews via the big relay, thus illustrating that an AppView nuke is not necessarily a relay nuke.
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whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net... - Curious, have you tried fetching and rendering from your 3rd party PDS using this athome or something else? If so what?
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I see that now.
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Yeah, keen to test that some way. If they're blocking at the big relay level for subjective bans (i.e. nothing illegal was done) then the protocol only really delivers on its promise if someone else spins up a relay that does surface said content (and the directory is spun out of the PLC).
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Ah ha. I wonder, if you ran your own PDS and it got banned by bluesky the appview, and then you switched to another appview that had no issue with your content, but that appview pulled from the main relay, would your content still be seen? Most curious about what happens at the relay level.
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Right, illegal stuff and sybil/nostr attack stuff makes sense at the relay level. I wonder if there are any AppViews out there that pull directly from PDSs to test some handles with.
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Ah yes, thanks, I see. I wonder what all these levels are. I was under the impression they don't clear from the relay except for you-know-what and other things that can't be there by law.
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Ah thanks, have you got an example of any handles that were banned at those deeper levels?
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See reply to Erland above. Seems all accounts stay on the relay, it's just AppView banning at this stage.
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Nope. For example there was that realendwokeness account that got traction on X posting about getting banned, but as you can see that account, while gone from the Bluesky main client, is still there on the other clients, as they haven't banned it, such as skyfeed.app and sunrise.li.
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What if that other app will never ban the person you support? The owner of the app is someone who is personally very committed to the cause of the person who was banned on the main Bluesky app. How is that the same bullshit?
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Have you even used another client besides the main Bluesky app? If so which one?
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Some stall at the country wholesale market doesn’t want to buy your tomatoes? Fine. You still have them. Take them to another stall. What’s the point in shouting at the stall that didn’t want them? That’s their right, they’re not obligated to buy your tomatoes, just as you’re not obligated to sell.
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That IS the point. The whole point of this new protocol paradigm is that you can do that. That's the real big picture.
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For what it's worth this person was never banned on any of the other clients. I don't know why they don't just take the line if you don't like this client's banning policies then switch to another one. Good opportunity to educate people.
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Try it. Go to another client right now. Is this person's "banned" account still there? Wow. Amazing.
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For crying out loud, whoever is banned is only banned on this Bluesky client. Use another Bluesky client where the person was never banned, all their posts will be there, all yours too, communicate as before, goodness sakes don't wast time complaining to the client.
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Also many Nostr pitches gloss over media altogether. It's like, yes, everything you said is correct -- but in a text-only world. For images, video and other media, that's all stored willy-nilly on paid cloud here and there, and that fact totally changes the argument. What's a post without its media?
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But what happens next?
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Kool-Aid man goes: OHHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEE
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B contradicts A.
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If your argument is that client y on protocol x uses its own servers, that's like saying that the sun is yellow.
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You're mixing up Bluesky the AppView with ATprotocol, the decentralised protocol developed by Bluesky PBLLC. An AppView is not a protocol.
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I agree. Bluesky is like come for the users, stay for the decentralisation. Mastodon are nostr are like come for the decentralisation, stay for decentralisation.
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What's max decentralisation possible? Nostr
What's max decentralisation possible with a non-laughable number of users? Mastodon
What's max decentralisation possible with an actually serious number of users: Bluesky
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Sort of agree, but I think it should have stopped at text. All images and video are just on regular cloud storage. Since most posts with media don't make sense without the media, take away the media and you've de facto deleted the post. Post rot will be real. So media kind of ruins it, basically.
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lol
- Waiter, this burger is terribly overcooked.
- But maam, you're still looking at the menu and haven't ordered yet.
- Waiter, don't belittle me.
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But on the other hand media is uploaded to old-fashioned cloud storage, which to me ruins it. If your post is "What a beautiful sunset", whatever limits apply to the jpeg of the sunset de facto apply to the whole post, as it's meaningless without it. So Nostr just becomes fancy cloud storage.
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Makes me wonder what the point of other clients is, at least on desktop web and beyond being a backup for anyone who gets banned by Primal (and perhaps only a temporary one). They're just each person's same social graph and history, but with less (or less polished) stuff around it. What do they do?