Friends, if 1/3 of the population in the prairies is saying they want to leave Canada, and you aren't willing to ask sincere questions about why, I can't help you. Think deeper than "They're a bunch of angry yokels", I'm begging you.
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But they are angry yokels boots. My entire family voted conservative despite everything. Because they're stupid. They heard those 3 word slogans and, like inbreds, they voted accordingly. They ignored all of the facts because they didn't want to pay attention. Ignorance is bliss in Saskatchewan.
I’ve lived in Alberta for almost 60 years and these complainers have nothing to complain about. People are doing better here than they have. Maybe can’t afford a house till they are 40 but you know what? Neither could we and our parents usually moved in to their parents houses. 1/2
It was only a bed of roses for a few years with 20 year old buying houses.that was never normal.and if it’s so bad here than why are so many people moving here and those people saying it’s bad not moving to other provinces.The oil boom superheated the economy and
Caused housing and land prices to skyrocket. I lived through it. If your wages aren’t following inflation then blame your company because they sure as hell have money to give to CEO’s. Which by the way, CEO’s never use to take employee wages for multimillion dollar bonuses. I could go on.
As someone who grew up on the prairies I deeply sympathize with the feeling of western alienation. That is another conversation. I never felt hatred and that is what seems to underline current western alienation. It seems more ideological and dishonest. And violent.
I think it's deadly serious. But 90% of the anger I've heard has come from misinformation. For example they are still desperately focused on building a pipeline to the west coast even though it just opened.
My proposed solution is proportional representation and cutting misinformation out.
It's almost like Saskatchewan and Alberta aren't considered part of Canada, if you look at it from Via Rail, it barely stops here, missing the capital city entirely, while the Liberals talk about major upgrades for Toronto & Montreal.
American colonies started from taxation without benefit.
#cdnpoli
I have spent my whole adult life trying to combat conservative propaganda that my family has been exposed to. I've spent hours deconstructing their beliefs and trying to get them to see the truth. It was a miracle when my dad finally admitted that climate change was real.
If you can't sit down and listen to what western leftists have to say about the Western Alienation issue, then maybe you need to leave the conversation.
Quebec with its population ports and economy couldn't make separation happen, so why could Alberta with no ports fewer people and a much more volitle single resource economy think it could succeed?
I was young when Quebec held a referendum to separate from Canada. It was horrifying. Trying to imagine a Canada without Quebec and waiting helplessly for the referendum results was terrible. We escaped that reality by a very thin margin. I don’t want to envision Canada without our western family.
My connections in W.Canada are smart people & none want to separate. They do get bombarded with misinformation about Can & provincial economics.
The only time I hear anyone ‘east’ talk about ‘west’ is for vacation plans or when DS does something 🤦♀️ or ‘TO costs are too high, moving to Saskatoon’
From the exhausted over 2/3 of people on Prairies who have watched the 30% have toddler tantrums and convoys for years we are tired of the entitled poor me feeling existing in this group. Put on your adult panties and slide up to grown-up table if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise GTFO
As someone who has lived in Alberta his entire life, I'm here to tell you that yes, it is absolutely a case of 1/3 of the population being a bunch of angry yokels. And that's is probably being really generous.
More like they've been rage farmed. Federal contributions aren't acknowledged and the Postmedia monopoly pushes grievances. I lived in Calgary 40 years the Conservative Party has created an industry around victimization.
Provincial Gov'ts continually ignore or downplay significant Federal funding contributions toward things like health care, resource development/marketing and transportation. In the words of J.D. Vance, "Have you even thanked them?". Alberta prefers to create enemies rather than partners.
This really makes me think of economist Mark Blyth's accurate predictions on the rise of Trump in the rust belt. Like wow people that are in economically turbulent areas that are neglected by politics will choose any option available to them even if it seems self-destructive.
Born and raised Albertan but I've moved around a lot. From all I've seen, there's little coherent or factual underpinning western separatism. To the extent there is, it's decades of comically corrupt provincial govs blaming their messes on the feds and rallying people around grievance
Timing is everything. They got shocked in a federal election, so they are distracting the narrative from the UCP’s disastrous policies and simping for PP.
I agree. I've never lived in the Prairies (QC>BC), but I believe political sentiment rests on socioeconomic circumstances. If there's serious discontent in a region, that means something is wrong. It needs to be investigated and defined, not dismissed (or exploited like Smith/Manning are doing).
Which isn't to say "the separatists are right" (I'm from QC lol).
I've worked in design and software, and when users find something annoying or confusing, their solutions aren't usually the best fix - but the *fact* that they don't like something is very real, and demands a solution.
(Side note: if you're wondering why so much software sucks, it's not because we don't know it sucks or how to fix it; it's because software company leadership cares less about users and developers than it does about shareholders, Big Ideas, and its own ego. Which also parallels politics, imo.)
Progressive movements need to develop a thorough understanding of what's wrong in people's day-to-day in the prairies, and develop serious solutions to address those underlying issues. It can't all just be bad actors wrecking an otherwise utopian society; bad actors need something to exploit.
I have been in Alberta for over 50 years and I still cannot understand the grievances.
From my perspective it is more about entitlement than “fairness”.
From the roots of this entitlement has spawned the current conservative movement.
I blame neoliberal ideology.
The market will save us all.
Except the market will only go where money can be assured. That leaves rural areas neglected as there is very little ROI
Not saying you have to explain it, but as a person from the prairies I’d love some insight into why. I’m a maritimer so a lot of my perspective on the west has been “oh that’s where everyone moved when paper collapsed” back when I was young
Manitoba tends to get a little lost in the western alienation conversation, and it's worth paying attention to why a deeply neglected, impoverished province with no federal representation, endemic problems of violence, and a perpetually struggling economy, is less interested in leaving than Ontario
Similarly to Atlantic Canada, the actual have-not provinces seem to be disinterested in dipping, while separatist sentiment is concentrated in the resource-rich corners of the country. Smith's complaints about transfer payments ring pretty hollow when they're what's keeping your hospitals afloat
It's hard from my perspective not to see western alienation as the entitlement of provinces that already see a lot of investment wanting to keep more for themselves. Can you explain why you think there's more to it? What's the authentic source of the alienation?
Its not as simple as one issue, but you're like 75% of the way to one of the key issues: Those parts of the country are resource rich, yet their people see almost nothing from that. The companies that benefit are headquartered abroad or in places like Ontario. Those provinces feel the clear lack of
benefit from their wealth, even if they may not consciously recognize it as that, and then they get mostly dismissed during elections because they're not super populous. They see a lot of investment.... but that investment doesn't benefit the people. It benefits a few CEOs.
It's hard for me to believe the line that they "see almost nothing" when Alberta has successfully parlayed resource wealth into a fairly diverse economy and a rich population. Saskatchewan is relatively worse off, but no worse than Québec. Resource sectors do tend to be highly exploitative, but...
What are the sincere questions? "We don't like Trudeau & the Carbon Tax! We want fiscal conservatism!" We got those things and it's still a monolithic vote. Disinformation is the driver of this. Provincial leaders stoke dissent.
Alberta and Saskatchewan. Outside of an anomaly every now and again, we vote Blue, no matter who. It's an inflexible vote. If FPTP was yeeted tomorrow, they might lose a total of 5 seats.
Yes the separatists exist but they are much fewer than that. A lot of them refuse to vote NDP or Liberal so CPC it is, but separate? No. That is an American propaganda line to get hold of the oil. That’s it. A bunch of American oil companies and their hangers on
Sorry no can do. The federal government paid 30 billion dollars in oil and gas subsidies in 2024. Spare me the victimhood. The rest of Canada (and First Nations ) are sick of it
You are correct but Danielle Smith (oil and gas lobbiest extraordinaire) leads the charge on feelings of alienation and she knows better ( and I like how you said Alberta and Saskatchewan.. and not western alienation.. BC is not part of that particular hostility)
I’ve spent 40+ years of my life in Alberta and that figure needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Apart from sampling bias, these polls always present separation as something that’s easy. There’s never even a suggestion of messiness. They never as “would you do it if it made you poor”.
I've probably contributed to inflating the results of polls on the subject, because when I got them, I would hang up without response because they always seemed dodgy or leading. I also have not actually received such a poll since I cut my landline back in 2016.
They never ask, "Would you do it if it meant more potholes in the roads? If the doctors left? If your life expectancy dropped by five years? If the oil companies decided operations were no longer profitable? If it meant unrest?"
"Okay. They retreated, but so much damage was done that it's going to take at least a decade of operations to pay for the repairs. Also, you were conscripted, and during the assault you were shot in the pelvic girdle, destroying your left hip joint and now you can't walk."
I want to see a survey that actually asks these people how much they're willing to sacrifice to separate and/or become the 51st state. Answers ranging from nothing to death or horrific injury, with various grades of poverty and personal loss in the middle.
Also, literally every Albertan I have ever met who REALLY believes in this stuff actually IS an angry yokel and a painfully ignorant one at that. It’s ALWAYS homeopathy grade magical thinking. They operate under the assumption that separation will not only be easy but it’s going to make them rich.
They operate under the assumption that they just hit the magic button and finally the stupid kids will really be in charge and we will have oil booms forever and BC will have to build us a bunch of pipelines. Not a parody. This is their actual sov cit grade international pseudo law.
No one will resist them. The indigenous population will either be happy or leave. Brain drain either won’t happen or it will be good for the economy because thinkers are useless. No one will object to being displaced, and if anyone does, well they can just shoot, shovel and shut up.
(Not that they tend to be any kind of creditable marksmen though. They're a bit more likely to be the folks who cheat on their Canadian Firearms Safety Test and get kicked off the range for not listening to safety guidelines. Yes, I'm thinking of specific people.)
It’s the “You won’t believe it but with this one simple trick you will be powerful and rich” mentality. They are the same people who believe in the Freeman on the Land rhetoric.
Everyone feels like they spent decades doing exactly that. After the last five years, I don't think we care anymore. It's just background noise, like the Quebec separatists
I don’t see enough emphasis on how memes and misinformation plays into this.
The separatists are disenfranchised folks who have ugly *completely devoid of factual reality* information dripped intravenously into them since 2015. Home grown or from US cable news, ugly wins.
And their leaders are skilled at stoking the hate for their own greedy, ego-driven needs.
They are justifiably angry. But at the wrong folks for the wrong things.
We have become so complacent with politics. It’s not sports. The further right you go, the more blaming & punishment of others matters.
And there is so much data out there now about the differences in the actual structure of brains from Conservatives and Progressive thinkers. This is old but relevant: https://youtu.be/8SOQduoLgRw?si=4nd-ncfFth6YYbRe
And as a life long Flatlander, I can confidently say the East continually underestimates the level of (misplaced) rage out here. They still want their pound of flesh from Trudeau and feel ripped off-again.
I hear you. It is particularly hard to be open minded to people who seem completely close minded. I see that 1/3 as a threat. I see that 1/3 as supporting hateful ideologies. I fear that 1/3 cares only of their own well-being not of societies collective well-being.
It is most certainly not 1/3. It is a loud and wildly misinformed small group of people. And if they understood what separation would cost, they would drop the idea like a hot potato.
Industry capture is a huge problem everywhere in the country but it’s particularly pronounced in AB (see: AER, war room, rewriting of NEP history) because of O&G concentration and its external ownership—little local accountability. As a longtime Albertan I see it first as a propaganda problem.
What's your feeling on what can be done from outside the province to help address this? I'm not sure where the jurisdiction falls on all those issues; is most of it provincial?
I’m in central Sask.Surrounded by rural neighbours complaining about feds.They have cabins, frequent holidays-farming numbers best over last 10 years.But long running right wing radio talk show has created hatred.So when we can’t agree on the colour of the sky,it’s a cult not reality.
I ask them, why haven’t you, and where is this place you want to go to get all your “ Freedom “ ?
They usually respond that they want the Canada that “used to be” way back when…
Sigh, as a woman that’s offensive to me 😒
Yeah, they want to go back to the days when men could rape and beat their wives in private, and nobody did anything about it. To when sexual harassment in the workplace was the norm. To when they could send their gay kid to conversion camp to get him right. Fuck those losers!!!
I'm old and about to prove it. I worked at Sears in Chinook Center in Calgary. There was a sales guy there who's brag was that he could undo a woman's bra without her knowing it. He did it to all of us. This was the norm. Nobody ever did anything because they thought it was hilarious. It wasn't.
They need to get this poison out into the open. Until the rest of the country sees how dangerous these separatists are ….. all this will continue to be ignored.
Even after this election, I see people in Alberta saying, now you have no right to complain about things like health care (shortages of doctors and wait times). I think a huge part of the problem is that people do not understand the difference between federal and provincial responsibilities.
Ontarians should absolutely listen to concerns of people in western Canada.
Albertans also need to stop acting entitled.
You can't have the same power within the country as Ontario if you have 1/3 of the population of Ontario. The oil doesn't make you more important, Alberta.
I actually had no idea we were so divided. I know I’ve said it before on another comment but we really need to find a way to move forward together as a united Canada. What is the first step to accomplishing this?
No one wants to listen anymore. No one wants to sit down and have a discussion. Compromise has disappeared. I don’t understand the modern rage that demands everyone be the same. People screaming at each other all the time is exhausting. Ridicule helps no one.
What is their issue though? All I’m hearing is “federal overreach” and “conservative values” which, to me, means “I don’t want to follow laws or treat others with respect”. They don’t seem like a thoughtful bunch so how else are we supposed to respond to them?
I remember when the Feds offered Alberta 17 paid-for family court judges positions if they modernized the courts booking system to be online. Ab turned it down. Then COVID hit and they had to modernize the system anyway. The prov gov still blamed the feds for a critical backlog in family court cases
My frustration with separatism talk is that almost all the issues AB/SK have with the Feds are actually at their core provincial government mismanagement problems.
Yet if the feds insisted on holding the prov gov to service delivery standards, there would be riots about overreach.
It is the typical MO of right wing provincial governments. Claim sole credit for anything good that happens in the province, and anything bad is the fault of the federal government.
Yep, it's the misinformation. Has anyone done a study on post-secondary education uptake in Western Canada vs the rest of the country? I'd be interested to see the results.
I lived between Edmonton, Red Deer, Sylvan Lake until I was 10yrs old. My family is there they are good people. I can honestly say the West v East thing I was raised with. I remember those conversations around the dinner table and during the holiday get togethers. I'm glad I've lived on both sides🇨🇦
I don't take 1/3 of the prairies wanting to separate as any comfort that it won't happen. I really want to do something so that number does not grow. I live on the east coast. I don't feel any resentment or I'll will towards the prairies.
I lived through the era of the Quebec referendum. While not living in Quebec, I had family there. Referendum on separation is so painful for people both inside and outside of the province. I hope we never get there with the West.
Me too. My family in Monteal had decided that if QC separated , they would leave QC for another province.
My aunt there was very educated and she was having none of it!
I live here, and there's precious little to be sincere about. They're angry people who've been played like fiddles by generations of politicians who find a lot of capital in ginning up resentment. And it's not 1/3 of the population - it's a small minority. /1
As a BCer in her 50s who has spent some time in Ontario & Alberta & Manitoba, short trips to Montreal, and earlier trips to Nova Scotia, there are strong distinctions between the regions. Overall, there is a severe level of ignorance & stereotyping from Ontario towards western provinces.
For example, some Torontonians believe the stereotype that everyone east of Kipling Station drives a pickup truck. 😆 While it's true that you'll see more trucks in rural areas, this could occur in rural eastern provinces.
The ignorance I'm referring to is the lack of name sake remembrance for our political landscape besides Ontario believing we're all conservative. What's the point in judging this when the lack of curiosity beyond everything 'Ontario' is so minimal?
I drove to SK in 2017 for a wedding. I felt the sentiment for separation then. Every time someone saw my ON plate I had to explain that I didn’t vote for JT and it couldn’t possibly be me who ruined their lives. It got real old real fast.
The divisions sadden and scare me. We definitely need to think deeper, ask better questions, and listen more. Bluesky is not the best place for this. I need to educate myself on the deeper issues but don’t know where to start. What trusted sources are a good place to start?
I live in a con western stronghold. Any meaningful conversation I have I try to bring in facts but they spew disinformation or spin it. They act like we are discussing both sides but one is false. It’s difficult to respectfully rebut false and act as if you’re considering their point of view.
i can empathize with westerners (hell, half my family is in MB and AB)... but beyond axing the carbon tax (done) getting rid of trudeau (done) building pipelines (done), what is there left that the feds can really do, policy-wise, to fix decades-old resentment and grievance politics?
In my experience people from the West look down their noses at us Maritimers. Who are neglected more by Ottawa BTW. I have no sympathy for Western aliénation. None
When I moved to Ontario the big thing that I got angry about is how little western Canadian history we discussed in my Canadian history reading course for my PhD. Literally the only book on the syllabus post confederation was about the SoCreds. It was entirely about Ontario & English-speaking Quebec
And pointing this out to people born in Toronto was met with "we have plenty of stuff on western Canada!" And they'd point to everything about the fur trade.
We didn't have a book on Tommy D!
This may seem minor but when you don't learn about the rest of the county you don't respect their issues.
Any large section of our neighbours who are so unhappy need to be taken seriously. Everyone has reasons for their position we all need to try to understand them.
People who have never been anywhere complaining about having less than people living somewhere they've never been are difficult to take seriously.
Grieving without context is just whining.
It's insane. Folks genuinely just hate the west. They think that 30% of the population have bad ideas, so screw everyone. It's insane. Just the shallowest thinking I've ever seen. And then they act surprised western alienation is a thing.
Canadians are some of the most classist people in the biz. They loathe workers who do jobs they refuse to do, and equally refuse to learn why those workers loathe them back.
The point of this is to combat the plethora of misinformation that the west carries the country, that they are the economic powerhouse that supports everyone else. That they are under-represented or pushed out. In fact I'd argue that politically we give them MORE weight than others.
Steve isn't saying AB and SK are 30% of Canada's population. I believe he's referring to the roughly 30% of the population of those provinces that have expressed some support for separation.
Nobody out east hates the west. Absolutely nobody. We're just tired of being attacked by the west and have stopped caring. Even then we still don't have any bad feelings for the west. We're just tired of defending ourselves from their imagination.
Dude, just read my replies today. Simply attempting to take western alienation seriously has led to me getting hundreds of replies hating on the west. it's not hard to see.
I am not sure the way you frame it helped. It’s not east vs west it’s certain industries who have been successful at keeping western Canada into a few resources industries. And here the provincial gov’ts are in the driver’s seat. Worse when fed Gov’t tried to help there’s pushback
Which is sad because there’s some businesses in western Canada that are trying to take off, but their prov Gov’t are trying to kill them because diversification is bad. Which also explains the lack of pop, which means fewer seats. And you never mention any of that.
I hear you. But we're going to need mutual respect and understanding and I can say that here in "Onterrible" many feel the same amount of hate coming from the west.
OK, I suggest then we all sit down and actually talk about it then. What do we have in common, where do our grievances come from? How do we try and come to a common place where what feels like alienation is more than just name calling.
People in Onterrible have far more political power than those in the prairies, though. You essentially can’t win government without Toronto and Quebec.
I’m sincerely trying to see that in the replies. I see a real mix though. Very little attacks the West outright, though there’s a lot of dislike and invalidation of what you might call Wexit chauvinists. But few people view them as “the West”. Many who dismiss the chauvinists live in the West too
Considering how I have had people from the West attack me for being a maritimer, saying I’m lazy and racially impure and should be kicked out of confederation, can you blame us?
I mean I don’t hate the West personally but these are some of the experiences ive had with them
I think you're really wrong about people hating the west. Some might, but that is a small minority, and I think there are people who are blowing it out of proportion for political reasons. Come to the East coast, talk to people, we don't hate the west at all, but do think some politicians,
honestly, if there was serious election reform that would be a step one. But, Alberta's libertarian leanings and refusal to diversify its economy is its own undoing.
look at BC, single resource, lumber. NAFTA killed it and we've taken forever to recover because we didn't diversify.
Really is the same thinking as “Fuck everyone in red states they got what they wanted” instead of actually addressing the poverty and abandonment that funnels them to a party that lies to them more effectively.
The problem is that the "news" bias to right-wing politicians like Poilievre pushes people like my parents to think he is the answer. The "news" never calling him out. They weren't fact-checking him. My parents refused to even look at his voting record.
Except in this case the red states have plenty of money, nice homes, big trucks and a great benefit plan. And they will do anything to maintain that even at the expense of the planet.
I think a lot of us want to see the West succeed but are frustrated with the politicians of the past, especially Stephen Harper, then Pollievre who want to keep your economy in one basket. O&G. Profit over people at any cost. People resist change and many are buying the disinfo.
A good government would examine and address the root causes of these sentiments (in the west and French Canada) work on them without lending credence to or entertaining the separation parts any more than needed. It would be foolish not to recognize legitimate grievances and nationally suicidal
Coming from the 'culture of defeatism' and being one of the 'bastards' they wanted to 'freeze in the dark', the mending process will be long. Atlantic Canada has its memory as well.
Hey Bernie. It is a pretty complex set of things going on.
It traces back to the 1970's oil and development boom. At the end of the 1970's that boom led to an inflation crisis, and then some federal policies that absolutely devastated Alberta and led to a decade of stagflation (1980-1988 or so). /1
That created a large group of people stuck in poverty, and initiated a string of generational trauma due to economics.
This is in conjunction with the resource sector bouncing back and generating massive jobs and revenues through royalties. This became the addiction to oil for money. /2
Because there was both wealth (entitlement) and poverty (marginalization) a sense of resentment grew from both wealth spaces against federal government policy, bureaucracy, and wealth transfer to other provinces.
Add to that a highly conservative religious space, and low mobility population /3
And you get clan-like social structures that embedded conservativism into social identity, and linked that to O&G and federal policy.
So that cycle has now spun for almost 50 years, so you have 3 generations of people stewed in resentment. There is a serious idea that Alberta is hard done by. /4
People genuinely feel alienated from Canada, and feel that Alberta is stronger on its own, and that the rest of Canada abuses Albertans resource wealth.
Tied to this is also a "work harder, get richer" attitude, and an underlying myth that everyone who works hard gets to be a millionaire. /5
I live in Alberta with the constant fuck Trudeau signs and racism galore. It's like all the worst people in the country have been sent here. I see no way to try and reason with someone who thinks Jordan Peterson is a smart guy with lots to say.
Or someone who thinks Take back Alberta is the way
I have lost friends and family and while I may miss some of them, I font regret cutting them off one bit. My best friend in the world is conservative. I can't speak to him about it without saying "i used to think you were smart" so I don't but I also hardly ever see him now. My godfather won't talk
My husband's best friend vanished. Then, one day, he texted him that he couldn't be friends with someone who was "radicalized," which was to say my husband was too liberal.
Just to say, about not changing... my spouse has not changed his views much in the 31 years we've been together, but he is no longer a Conservative, as he was back then. But the Conservatives have left him behind. He is pretty much 'partyless' now, because he's not batshit.
I was brought up to hate the Liberals,like almost every other white kid in Alberta in the 70s and 80s. When Redford was premiere, I went to a Wild rose rally and found myself standing beside some guys with 3% shirts on. That was enough for me. If I'm voting for the smae people as Nazis it's time
To me because of "the trans" or whatever bullshit his " Christian" friends talk about... Good riddance. I'm teaching my son that in our house, we stand up for our beliefs.
❤️My sons have always been so kind to others. I attribute it to growing up in classes that were diverse. My oldest has been in school with a child who has Downs Syndrome since Kindergarten. He has learned empathy and acceptance and how to stand up for others. They don't come out of the womb ignorant!
Forward. They don't want to talk, they wnat war.
My mom is a senior, you should hear what her friends all believe. It's just like that video of trump saying the tattoos were nit photo shopped.
Let them spend all their time trying to seperate, at least that takes some time away from destroying
Healthcare or buying poisonous Tylenol.
Sure, we could try setting up a dating site for mras but I think our time would be better spent apposing them.
There is no fixing racist trash. They will always be broken.
This is why I just walked away from my entire family. I came to the realization that they've always been racist trash, and they'll always be racist trash. They don't listen and refuse to learn or accept that they're wrong about anything!
We aren't allowed to ride bikes though, because if we don't burn that ethical oil and boost clean coal, and every other 2 buzz word scam they've thought of, we'll never get our Nuclear Renaissance*.
But they decided Carney was just a "Liberal" equating him to Trudeau and not allowing him to even speak before they made up their minds. That's the problem!!! He is change!
And that's why Carney needs to make better efforts to make the left more palatable in the west, out west your options for a left leaning party in many cases are the Greens, NDP or an Independent.
PMJT twinned the pipeline for them. That was huge, unpopular with people outside Alberta, and brutally expensive. And if you ask an Albertan they WILL tell you that it was a mistake and private industry would have done it better. 🥴
Why would any sane political party pour resources into a region that will never vote for them? The same people who are "alienated" constantly vote provincially for parties that are purposefully alienating them.
Well for starters you don't JUST pour resources, you get people on your team in the ridings and start door knocking and you make an effort to show them that Hey you matter to us.
I would agree, but the best way to help people move to the other side isn't dismissal but validating their concerns and talking to them and helping them.
yeah some maybe a lost cause, but others might be more willing to change and grow if you listen and understand them.
I have this (probably incorrect) theory that if we had a transnational bullet train and therefore much cheaper travel between provinces, we wouldn’t be able to treat each other like we’re from different planets.
Lets remove the dishonest grifters preying on ignorant fools willing to sacrifice well being for populist crap. Canadians coast to coast to coast have endured hardships, angry at feds of either party, but some in alberta are in a cult of victimhood exploited by corrupted politicians & backers.
You cant reach people who dont want to be reached, its an addiction, only recover once hit rock bottom & admit there's a problem. Fed govt under lpc given Alb a lot,Cpc did jack shit for Alb knowing didnt need to. Reason QC gets things, they throw bums out regularly, alberta cons are masochists
Its like dealing with toddlers, if you keep giving candy ir screen time to shut them up when whining or annoying, they grow up into spoiled, screaming 5 yr olds, even harder to manage & think only way to get attention is scream more. Nope, consequences for actions, enough coddling. Time outs needed
Just glad my stepdad didnt turn into whiny loathing victim, blaming govt cause mill clised, strikes or layoffs. He got down to work at other jobs, he showed up to vote while him & mom still volunteered in their community. Sitting around whining didnt put food on table
I'll note how pervasive tge anti trans movement is, and motivations of those pushing this. A woman i use to like was trying to convince me to vote BC Con, not because of policy or giving a damn about province, she tried using transphobia & a stupid story to drive fear as motivator. Fuck right off
This woman was professional, intelligent & former centrist. Winning mattered more, old grudges against ndp mattered more, she mistakenly assumed that i would agree cause once same party, or that i would fall for bullshit story. I dont vote for just me, i vote for all. Thats the difference
This is absolutely correct, this anger isn’t from just nowhere and it didn’t “just happen” either. It’s just been misdirected, big money has a way of doing that, taking the ire off itself. It’s just we need to be more understanding, and with these responses Steve is getting. Thats not happening soon
Somewhere in a trunk I have a 1986 pamphlet from the Western Canada concept party, an early separatist group. There’s always been a fringe and they’re not serious people. They dismiss questions of treaties and gloss over economic viability. But anger? That’s real and directed east.
What's the solution beside them having a Conservative Federal government? Mark Carney is far from a Justin Trudeau when it comes to policy and they won't even give him a chance.
It's not 1/3, it's a ver small minority. No Calgarian, homegrown or transplant, I met while living there for 7 years, wants to leave Canada. My hubby was there for 24 years. He never met one either.
Why won't Smith hold a referendum? Because it will NEVER succeed.
I was born in Calgary. Not one person I know wants to leave. Canada. It is a loud misinformed aggrieved minority. If you ask them it is nothing but “poor Alberta” it is manufactured ridiculous bs
I think it is a problem with media and politicians taking advantage of the misinfo spread. The East sees Alb/Sask as a drag on our drive to net zero but the politicians are beholden to O&G. The media has to show the progress thats being made to gain better understanding from the east. /1
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My proposed solution is proportional representation and cutting misinformation out.
American colonies started from taxation without benefit.
#cdnpoli
also the separatists are ignoring the indigenous population, surprising no one which is exactly what Quebec did.
moreover Quebec having a much bigger population cold water port and more stable internal economy couldn't.
I’ll ask AS LONG AS their replies are not yelling ‘transfer payments’ and ‘oil for Jesus’ at me.
The only time I hear anyone ‘east’ talk about ‘west’ is for vacation plans or when DS does something 🤦♀️ or ‘TO costs are too high, moving to Saskatoon’
We might be willing to hang out with Cascadia. But definitely not an independent Alberta.
I've worked in design and software, and when users find something annoying or confusing, their solutions aren't usually the best fix - but the *fact* that they don't like something is very real, and demands a solution.
From my perspective it is more about entitlement than “fairness”.
From the roots of this entitlement has spawned the current conservative movement.
The market will save us all.
Except the market will only go where money can be assured. That leaves rural areas neglected as there is very little ROI
"Okay. They retreated, but so much damage was done that it's going to take at least a decade of operations to pay for the repairs. Also, you were conscripted, and during the assault you were shot in the pelvic girdle, destroying your left hip joint and now you can't walk."
The separatists are disenfranchised folks who have ugly *completely devoid of factual reality* information dripped intravenously into them since 2015. Home grown or from US cable news, ugly wins.
You are what you eat.
They are justifiably angry. But at the wrong folks for the wrong things.
We have become so complacent with politics. It’s not sports. The further right you go, the more blaming & punishment of others matters.
The First Nations will stop this!
if these ppl are so unhappy they can move to the 🇺🇸
https://bsky.app/profile/kokumsarah.bsky.social/post/3lo3jzmb7qs2m
The extreme Christian / bigoted views also dominate.
They usually respond that they want the Canada that “used to be” way back when…
Sigh, as a woman that’s offensive to me 😒
Albertans also need to stop acting entitled.
You can't have the same power within the country as Ontario if you have 1/3 of the population of Ontario. The oil doesn't make you more important, Alberta.
#cdnpoli #yyc #yeg
Yet if the feds insisted on holding the prov gov to service delivery standards, there would be riots about overreach.
My aunt there was very educated and she was having none of it!
We didn't have a book on Tommy D!
This may seem minor but when you don't learn about the rest of the county you don't respect their issues.
Why aren’t the other 2/3 saying “f$&k you” to the 1/3 and take back their province? Why are you all being held hostage by a minority?
Canadians would jump on board if they saw Albertans saying enough and started fighting back. They’d happily join that fight.
Lifelong Ontarian & parts east, so I genuinely have little more than the odd anecdotal experience to live by, vicariously. 🇨🇦 🤙
Grieving without context is just whining.
The GDP of AB, SK, MB combined is also $430B. So same population, same GDP.
FYI - I'm from Halifax, lived in BC, spent lots of time in AB and SK with friends.
Theirs are the only viewpoints that ever make the news.
I mean I don’t hate the West personally but these are some of the experiences ive had with them
look at BC, single resource, lumber. NAFTA killed it and we've taken forever to recover because we didn't diversify.
When you point out voting records or policies or economics it just gets to "nope nope nope nope liberals bad government bad"
I don't see your point Steve?
What actually are the reasons why?
As I understand it, it's equalization and pipelines and generally feeling ignored.
My issue is that there are real tradeoffs on these, and it's hard to propose balance if the demand is total fealty to one side.
It traces back to the 1970's oil and development boom. At the end of the 1970's that boom led to an inflation crisis, and then some federal policies that absolutely devastated Alberta and led to a decade of stagflation (1980-1988 or so). /1
This is in conjunction with the resource sector bouncing back and generating massive jobs and revenues through royalties. This became the addiction to oil for money. /2
Add to that a highly conservative religious space, and low mobility population /3
So that cycle has now spun for almost 50 years, so you have 3 generations of people stewed in resentment. There is a serious idea that Alberta is hard done by. /4
Tied to this is also a "work harder, get richer" attitude, and an underlying myth that everyone who works hard gets to be a millionaire. /5
Or someone who thinks Take back Alberta is the way
My mom is a senior, you should hear what her friends all believe. It's just like that video of trump saying the tattoos were nit photo shopped.
Let them spend all their time trying to seperate, at least that takes some time away from destroying
Sure, we could try setting up a dating site for mras but I think our time would be better spent apposing them.
There is no fixing racist trash. They will always be broken.
This is similar as to how Quebec feels about the feds, where the Prime minister and Parties largely ignore them until the election is called.
Liberals especially ignore the west and often only visit them during an election as a courtesy.
yeah some maybe a lost cause, but others might be more willing to change and grow if you listen and understand them.
Also Alberta; Continues to vote for the party who offers nothing but resistance to change
Why won't Smith hold a referendum? Because it will NEVER succeed.