But the arguments made by British leavers have turned out to be absolute dogshit. Why would any intelligent person still be giving those arguments any credence?
What’s ironically hilarious is they may well have & never even known it. Some trans ladies, particularly those who transitioned quite young, are indistinguishable from cis ladies…which is what makes the SC ruling so dangerous. Who gets to decide who “looks” trans? Boneheads that’s who 🤪🔥
The EU would never accept the Customs Union without freedom of movement (or vice versa)... and for very good reasons. Clegg: please go away. You're yesterday's man (and you were a fraud when you claimed to be 'today's man' anyway).
Badanock this morning not ruling out reform coalition, if Britain wants any form of relationship with the eu Britain must overwhelmingly reject these obnoxious deluded disrupters or the eu relationship is dead
Clegg’s an idiot. When given the best chance to negotiate (a) meaningful constitutional change; (b) a sensible approach to the credit crunch, he fluffed both leading to economic stagnation, poorer living stds for many & Brexit.
The argument is badly put, referring to Leavers in that way, but there is disquiet in many countries against the open borders policy - Germany, France, and The Netherlands in particular. Maybe an accommodation could be made that would relieve tensions in those countries as well.
The EU still doesn't get it does it? They need us more than we need them. Why oh why don't they listen to us? It's almost like they think we're a tiny island on the edge of a continent, alone, frightened & confused ... we're a superpower, our best mate is America. Don't they know who we are?
Agree building the military industrial complex across Europe benefits no one but shareholders. Why should folk send their family members to fight wars on behalf of shareholders! The UK needs to build economic ties not borders and walls.
WHEN we decide to rejoin, it will be precisely because we had listened very intently to the Lies and Bullshit of the Leavers who got us into this mess for many Years, - And then comprehensively Rejected them !
Why is that so difficult for the Observer of all things, to comprehend ?
The thing they constantly fail to understand is the EU isn't trying to sell anything. It's the UK attempting to buy. Do you want to buy the snickers or not? No we don't have one without peanuts.
The biggest problem with the EU when the UK was still a part of it. Was the UK itself. Yes they brought money in but they also received a lot of subsidies from the EU.Britain wanted different rules constantly.That's why it was always difficult for the UK. Slightly better now in Brussels? London? 🤭
Are you seriously suggesting that ppl in Sussex have better facilities than London.
I had a choice of buses or tube to get to my destination. The roads had been newly resurfaced. There were new luxury apartments and offices with more being constructed.
head teachers fork out fur stationary and toilet roll out of their own pockets because the population is now considerably higher than when the school funding levels were last set 30 years ago.
And the “rejoin the EU now!” Crowd who are determined to remove Labour from govt casually assume that not only would the EU welcome the UK back, they’d see it as the return of their natural superiors.
The very same exceptionalism as “the need us more than we need them”.
While the intent is good for this is just another case of wanted the EU to do something it doesn't. Eletoral systems are a national issue. The right wing media in the UK would never stop whinging if the EU forced a change on the UK
What I don't get is the "we demand Labour rejoins and we hate them anyway " sound and fury undermines the gvt to the extent where people think Farridge might win . It seems very mixed up.
Well, they're my second choice right now. I think Clegg and the party have some clear water between them now, sufficient we don't have to hearken back to the coalition years in passing judgment. Timewise, it would make more sense to vote for Labour for love of Corbyn.
Look, Starmer has said again & again & again that he’s not rejoining. This isn’t some game of 4D chess, he really does mean it (why wouldn’t he?). I think we need to accept that Labour are part of the problem.
Nick Clegg is unique in having managed to sell his soul twice. He has forfeited his right to lecture us on this or any other topic, and I'm sure most of us never want to hear from him again.
Clegg was an absolute failure as the head of the LibDems. He's the one who allowed the Tories to sabotage the PR referendum by putting forward the only form of PR expressely rejected by the Jenkins Commission.
Isn't this akin to asking for a greggs pasty, but asking for one to have no pastry?
Ain't like we haven't "listened" to the leavers, we did and the place is a husk and besides, now we are "out" we have no say in their processes and will have to agree to their own terms, should there be anything.
To much notice is taken of Brexit blowhards, Dail Mail attention seekers and those who hate any Public Services ( including the BBC) . These are NOT the majority of the electorate never mind those living within the UK. Return to the consensus that stood the UK in good stead rather than clicbait
But Clegg isn’t the messenger. He’s not passing on some information from some other source. He’s putting forward his own (shit) ideas on what he wants the EU to be!
Why would somebody even write an article like this? It is basically saying "We know it is horses#it, but bear with us". It makes absolutely no sense. If they do believe in the message they are trying to sell, they should at least try not to shoot themselves in the foot right from the start!
You are out. You wanted out, and you are out. And will remain out, because we had more than enough of this toxic relationship and have no intention of relapsing. So, mind your damn UK business, enjoy your Brexit, and STOP TELLING US WHAT THE EU SHOULD DO. Thank you. 🇪🇺
Most saw it as a protest vote against the Tories. Now Reform are using the same tactics against Labour and it looks like the gullible are falling for it all over again. Certainly the media are giving Reform a disproportionate amount of coverage to push their agenda.
We didn't all want out, me for one. It was Boris Johnson and his right wing cronies who wanted their hard brexit and couldn't manage civil negotiations with the EU so please don't tar us all with the same brush. Thank you for reading.
Johnson didn't want out. He had said he was pro Thatcher's single market.He only went Brexit gaga when he realised he could get the nationalist nutjobs on his side then launch a bid for Tory leader after he'd lost narrowly.
The UK was a subject of disinformation aimed at the powerful few who had something to lose. It will be your turn next unless we learn to understand these matters, overcome our grievances, and operate as a clan against those that would divide us. They succeeded with UK but only because of lies.
Population 69.1 million. 48.2 million are registered to vote. 33.5 million voted in the EU referendum. 16.1 million voted to remain 17.4 voted to leave.
Many didn’t want out and assumed we would remain, so were complacent.
No one is telling anyone else what to do, pipe down and don’t be a cunt.
I'm all for considering an EU shaped more around common defence. But I don't see what any of that had to do with "listening to leavers". Brexit has been, and always will be utter bullshit. I'm not going to listen to the liars that got us into this mess in the first place.
They did listen to British leavers.
Unfortunately.
And this is why we’re here where we are today, impoverished economically, politically & socially.
And Clegg buggered off to the States with his Spanish wife, making him a leaver too.
Clegg - he who has form in selling his soul, now getting centre stage in The Observer ffs. It might be time to pull the plug on a relationship of over 40 years.
Who does this man think he is telling the EU who to get their house in order (according to him) when his own country is a shambles, a mess of right wing lies and misinformation that led to Brexit in the first case. Put your own house in order Mr Clegg..
Why do they have such a problem with free movement? Is it because British people who study and work abroad may never return? Or, worse still, return with ideas of disrupting the status quo?
Listen to the UK people who were too stupid/lazy/racist to fact check anything they were told despite being repeatedly encouraged to and false information clearly pointed out.
They must know what's best for the EU, after all they knew what was best for the UK
People who left the club saying it’d collapse now have the audacity to suggest how the club they’re not members of should be run. That’s not how democracy works. We used to have MEPs and input. We don’t now. We chose not to. Daft but here we are.
I'd be in favour of pact that gave us some of the benefits of EU membership that ran in conjunction - where European countries, could at their discretion, take part in aspects that suited them.
Free trade would obviously be off the table ( for now )
Just cancelled my Guardian subscription. I’ve tolerated the fact we pay for Simon Jenkins’ moronic takes on everything and the vacuous ramblings of the nepo-husband, but the disgraceful destruction of The Observer is not something I’m prepared to be even remotely associated with.
It is a pity, because there is still stuff there I would like to read (and occasionally do but feel guilty doing it) but I will not pay them a sous - nor the Observer, which seems destined for the pan!
The night that Thatcher resigned I saw him walking along Whitehall arm in arm with his then Missus. It is to my eternal regret that I never stuck my nut on him when I had the opportunity.
Freedom of movement was a relatively recent issue built off resentment towards refugees, following the perceived crisis in 2014/15. Government made a scapegoat of our FoM and EU nationals living in UK. Many leavers wanted to follow an EFTA/EEA arrangement, keeping ties to the Single Market.
Ah yes nick clegg the Liberal who became a Tory and destroyed his entire party when they showed the can just trade all their principles for a but of power and personal gain.
There are people genuinely not keen on the messenger. And there is a desire to expedite Ukraine (accepting that it can't be done while they're still in a hot war).
The UK has a dozen countries where young people can visit and work in the UK. Seems odd to be annoyed that French people can't visit, but okay with Japanese visiting.
No free movement of goods and capital without free movement of people: If you want to export to freely into the EU single market, you must be willing to accepting EU people moving to work in your country.
How many of us can name a single way our lives have improved as a direct result of Brexit? Now Reform are making similar ridiculous, often illegal, uncosted claims to try to get into power.
We are surely not dumb enough to fall for that again, are we?
Nick Clegg, former this and former that, lining himself up for another huge apology after overstepping his importance to the point of who cares... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo
The man who sold his old Party to a Tory Party who fought to destroy the UK as we knew it with austerity and when he failed at that he sold himself to Mark Zuckerberg and the Metaverse
The whole basis of the piece is founded on a falsehood: that Brexiteers had a point, and should be listened to.
The only positive of Brexit is that it is such an unmitigated disaster that no one in Europe is now even considering doing it. Even Le Pen has dropped it as a terrible policy.
Apparently your books have been scraped to potentially train Meta's AI. I wonder if Clegg was working for Meta at the time this took place? And maybe he should sit down and stop making so much noise about 'innovation' if he did.
Who's nick cleg? A bit of observer having its head up its own arse to think the eu would listen to anything from non members. Eu currently has the highest satisfaction rates ever among its actual membership.
Once again showing ignorance of the facts. Membership of the single market requires free movement, it's part of the concept of free movement of people *and* goods.
Furthermore what right does a British failed politician working for an American organisations which has just been fined by EU for not adhering to its rules, have to tell the EU how it should change its rules. English Exceptionalism at its very finest both by the Observer and Nick bl**dy Clegg!
Sorry but messenger is as much a pile of rubbish as the message. We are talking about a guy who could have taken any job,but instead decided to go&work for Meta. The same Meta of Facebook&Cambridge Analytica which w their lies& propaganda helped to deliver the most stupid UK decision of my lifetime.
When you are sitting on the outside the EU doesn’t have to listen to you at all. The EU did listen to all the abuse dished out by leavers on your way out the door. You either want to be all in or you want to all out. This is not the hokey pokey.
Clegg needs to shut it. He went into coalition with the Tories, kicking off austerity & the road to Brexit, then sold his soul to Facebook - his opinion is worth less than nothing. And just why does this twit think the largest and most prosperous trading bloc on the planet needs his help?
It is 2025 and some British people are still talking of offers to and deals with the EU! It’s a club. Does Britain want Platinum, Gold, Silver status or not be a member?
Economists and analysts at Cambridge Econometrics found that, by 2035, the UK is anticipated to have three million fewer jobs, 32% lower investment, 5% lower exports and 16% lower imports, than it would have had been. Brexit, the grift that keeps on giving.
As of this week, the Guardian and the Observer are entirely separate entities with different owners and internet domains. https://www.theguardian.com/ https://observer.co.uk
The latter is now part of Tortoise Media.
Perhaps. But there is certainly a case for associate EU membership for some peripheral nations like us, with sensible trade relatio s and citizen movement.
My biggest fear is that this country is still some way off of pulling its head from out of its arse. We need a truth and reconciliation commission over Brexit not another repackaging of the same old unicorn shit by people who obviously know better.
Nine years ago millions of ill informed people expressed their opinion to leave the EU. Not one single leader has even attempted to explain why this was a mistake. Scared of racists. Pathetic. Immigration up, prices up, confidence down, trust down. Grow up and run the country not the polls
Nine years ago an advisory referendum result suddenly become obligatory overnight, after the biggest whoppers were told still weren’t enough for the Tories (& Corbyn, yes it has to be said)
1/3 popln voted to leave
1/3 to stay
1/3 didn’t vote
And then May, Johnson & Frost ensured a total disaster
Not only mince, also complete tripe, from Clegg's views on free movement, trade arrangements and EU membership, which imho he gets completely wrong (he's in no position to propose that, he might stick to NATO since he's talking about joint defence), down to the Observer's ridiculous fawning.
Just rejoin the EU ffs. Everyone in the country now knows about the lies told by Johnson and Farage. It was always lunacy to opt out of the worlds largest trading block and our closest neighbours
Been an Observer reader for more years than I care to remember. Bought today's paper out of curiosity. On first impressions I'm not that impressed. See how it pans out in the next few weeks...
Still waiting for even ONE upside to Brexshit, so forgive me if I don't believe a fucking word of it from anyone trying to gaslight us any further on the topic.
I love how they a) think the EU should listen to someone from the UK even though we left and took back control. And b) the person they chose was Nick "that Meta cunt who got in to bed with the fucking tory cunts" Clegg.
You would have guessed after 47 years as EU members they were able to grasp these simple principles but no…they show they have no clue how the EU works 🤦♀️
As someone who is truly European and has lived in six countries I wished the EU was more ambition than just capital, services, people and goods. We need one taxation system and one pension scheme. It’s a mess when like me you just moved around.
I agree that should be an aim. I think the difficulty is an amplified version of the eurozone, though. Aligning a pension or tax scheme across Greece, Germany, Estonia and Sweden is surely impossible with such a wide gap in living standards, cultures, politics and costs?
It's not that difficult. They were already talking about a lot of scheme's like one Euro pension scheme. Before the fascist came back into power in the Eurozone, some countries were listening. And the UK has left the EU so you don't have to worry or partake anymore with the EU talks.
However, EU seems to be working on improving the poorest regions by subsidising them where the cost is being borne by the more affluent regions. That's why UK benefitted before 2004 and 2007 expansion. UK became comparatively more affluent. Hence Brexit. UK was happy to take, unhappy to give back.
It’s necessary, but it’s a project. Alignment can happen (unless the wreckers or worsening international conditions derail it) but it will take decades.
If Clegg (and Cameron) hadn't been so bloody complacent, the U.K. would never have left. As a member, the U.K. would have had the influence to effect change.
The last thing we need is the opinion of that smug political failure.
There was a TV comedy here about 40-45 years ago, ‘Yes, Prime Minister’. 1 episode had the snr civil servant saying to the PM that we joined the EEC (as it was then) with the aim of stopping German-French integration. Divide & rule.
There’s a grain of truth in it. I don’t think anyone is saying it’s Gospel.
A propos of Father Ted, before I’d seen it, I had an Irish Catholic friend tell me it resonated with him.
It’s often the recognition that provokes a wry laugh.
I think you’re taking the use of people using a comedic exaggeration to illustrate a point a tad too seriously.
There is an element of truth in that the UK was a drag on convergence. WTD and monetary union being the classic examples. But healthy & full debate over issues is very, very important.
The EU is already focuses on energy (based as it is on the Coal & Steel Union as well as Euratom) and innovation (in the form of the Horizon Programmes, previously the FWPs). Defense would be new but is now under discussion. Didn’t Brexiteers vociferously oppose any talk of an EU Army?
Comments
Weirdly it’s all connected
They just parrot what they hear and read.
Brexiters remain racist morons who need to be roundly ignored.
It’s time we started having majority rule where policy is based upon the wants and needs of the silent majority.
Why is that so difficult for the Observer of all things, to comprehend ?
Why does it
If you want to find Brexit damage you have to travel at least 40 miles out of town.
I had a choice of buses or tube to get to my destination. The roads had been newly resurfaced. There were new luxury apartments and offices with more being constructed.
So nothing like the area where I live where
And the “rejoin the EU now!” Crowd who are determined to remove Labour from govt casually assume that not only would the EU welcome the UK back, they’d see it as the return of their natural superiors.
The very same exceptionalism as “the need us more than we need them”.
Maddening.
They’re never going to allow the UK back knowing the next Tory govt will Brexit is the fuck right out the door on day 1.
That's the old saying isn't it?
Look, Starmer has said again & again & again that he’s not rejoining. This isn’t some game of 4D chess, he really does mean it (why wouldn’t he?). I think we need to accept that Labour are part of the problem.
Why is trust in politics and the mainstream media at an all time low?
I give you Nick Fucking Clegg.
Clegg is no different to Johnson and the Fag Ash Fascist.
Cut these attention seeking oxygen thieves off at the knees.
When did it become a thing for the intelligent to be forced to listen to the stupid in the name of fair play, balance or whatever?
When making a decision, we should listen to valid arguments... Not the moronic ramblings of racist morons.
Tolerating fools is what got us here.
👏That has to be the best closing statement of the week. Spot on and well said. 🙌
Why should anyone listen to such a traitor to ordinary people!
Ain't like we haven't "listened" to the leavers, we did and the place is a husk and besides, now we are "out" we have no say in their processes and will have to agree to their own terms, should there be anything.
Horse-shit
Heard more than enough of their drivel, racism, stupidity and lies already.
So until they finally confront the reality that they were hopelessly wrong, they can stfu, not interested.
You could just decide to have a nice day and not think about posts for which you were not the audience.
I understand how the LGBTQ community feels now.
The opposite of the supermajority needed for constitutional change in normal countries
Many didn’t want out and assumed we would remain, so were complacent.
No one is telling anyone else what to do, pipe down and don’t be a cunt.
It's attacks on trans rights and immigrants/asylum seekers just now.
How long before Westminster & the newspapers need another minority or marginalised group to use as...
All parties (that get platformed by legacy media) have shifted right or far right.
It's not a country my wife and I feel safe in. We have many friends who are the same.
Funny thing is we're part of the age bracket. Labour is desperate to get working. We're all...
I feel the UK is about to suffer an exodus of educated, progressive liberal who don't think it's worth screaming into the void any longer.
Personally, the only way I would stay is an independent Scotland.
Unfortunately.
And this is why we’re here where we are today, impoverished economically, politically & socially.
And Clegg buggered off to the States with his Spanish wife, making him a leaver too.
Nick Clegg, who was in coalition with the tories??
Do people have short memories??
The UK is adrift in the world because of Brexit.
it's 7 months ago now...EU Schengen has still NOT collapsed and EU Unity has NOT fallen apart.
1/2
https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en
Britain has no - and never had any - appetite for that. That is why the UK will not rejoin the EU.
Turns out while Brexit wasn’t great for the UK it unblocked Europe.
In the end a looser collaboration between the UK and the EU will be a much better for for everyone.
Good start.
I'm sure he'll be apologising again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo
Very Glesgae.
They must know what's best for the EU, after all they knew what was best for the UK
They may have a view but they are factually wrong.
And undermining society at Meta?
Free trade would obviously be off the table ( for now )
It is a pity, because there is still stuff there I would like to read (and occasionally do but feel guilty doing it) but I will not pay them a sous - nor the Observer, which seems destined for the pan!
I bet the editor felt they had achieved peak "balance".
There are people genuinely not keen on the messenger. And there is a desire to expedite Ukraine (accepting that it can't be done while they're still in a hot war).
The EU is doing just fine without the UK, maybe try Tinder instead.
NO CHERRY 🍒 PICKING
that it’s
FOUR FREEDOMS in one:
Goods
Services
Capital
& labour
They never mention the MASSIVE benefits from ALL of these 🤬
Labour need to wake up - they can’t offer real ‘growth’ without it.
Our other trade deals have all been pants.
We are surely not dumb enough to fall for that again, are we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo
As for anything Clegg has to say..
The only positive of Brexit is that it is such an unmitigated disaster that no one in Europe is now even considering doing it. Even Le Pen has dropped it as a terrible policy.
(just look at Meta and the unauthorised copying of books - maybe yours was one of them? - to train their AI all in the name of 'innovation')
https://bsky.app/profile/carolecadwalla.bsky.social/post/3lnfp5gars22q
The EU when they read this:
Really didn't take them long did it?
Not a publication I will be reading thank you
After that, it's all twaddle.
The only advantage of Brexit is that Eurosceptics in other countries are, largely, not clamouring to enact their own -xit.
Leavers and Brexit fxxxed us so massively that we did everyone else a solid.
https://www.theguardian.com/
https://observer.co.uk
The latter is now part of Tortoise Media.
1/3 popln voted to leave
1/3 to stay
1/3 didn’t vote
And then May, Johnson & Frost ensured a total disaster
Who is there left to speak truth to power now..?
The British government never had either though. Nor will they.
https://observer.co.uk/news/opinion-and-ideas/article/this-is-the-moment-for-starmer-to-make-a-bold-offer-to-the-eu
https://observer.co.uk/news/opinion-and-ideas/article/clegg-europe-april
Do keep up!
If money can move freely, then people should too. Otherwise capital can leave a country leaving the population behind.
It's indivisible for this reason: to divide it is to create a financial autocracy.
Funnily enough, in my younger days I read a lot of Pilger and was ambivalent to negative to the EU as it seemed a financial scheme to benefit capital.
Until the free movement thing clicked. That's why it's there: to stop it being what those on the left claimed it was
You got a new follower.
The last thing we need is the opinion of that smug political failure.
Not todays LDs who want back in the SM & eventual rejoin when possible
Said nobody, ever, in the history of the whole wide world.
Specifically, that it will advance the interests of US tech giants and obstruct important EU integration projects.
This doesn't exactly dissipate those fears 😑
🇫🇮🇪🇺
Is everyone saying that the Catholic church is exactly like an episode of Father Ted.
A propos of Father Ted, before I’d seen it, I had an Irish Catholic friend tell me it resonated with him.
It’s often the recognition that provokes a wry laugh.
There is an element of truth in that the UK was a drag on convergence. WTD and monetary union being the classic examples. But healthy & full debate over issues is very, very important.
Restricts British people equally or do they mean just one way.