The thing is that an undercurrent of the whole free speech charade was that a lot of people in elite spaces genuinely did not like trans people or respect trans identity and wanted a way to resist by proxy. - ThreadSky

ositanwanevu.bsky.social • 21 days ago

The thing is that an undercurrent of the whole free speech charade was that a lot of people in elite spaces genuinely did not like trans people or respect trans identity and wanted a way to resist by proxy.

Reposted from whet moser

if the harpers letter types did not want the government mass deleting anything with “transgender” in it they are welcome to say so

Comments

ebonyteach.bsky.social•21 days ago

Yep. True for everything there's been 🦗s about.

transvestight.bsky.social•21 days ago

and to a lesser extent black activism and climate action (only because these things are already broadly frowned upon in their circles, whereas a modicum of basic respect for trans people was becoming socially expected).

zyla.top•21 days ago

no one has ever respected us really

oldbaby.bsky.social•21 days ago

fuck a "elite spaces"

parentingaspath.bsky.social•21 days ago

That and racism

damorgan.bsky.social•21 days ago

i hope people can come to a clearer understanding of what conservatism actually is - namely *enforcing* a rigid and unchanging social order that puts white males at the top forever

on-tannhausergate.bsky.social•21 days ago

Correct

runningoutwest.bsky.social•21 days ago

Marc sentient penis head andreesen on bari's execrable podcast talked about how he and his fellow billionaires resented the PMC. They didn't want to be shamed for their bigotries and were upset they were "forced" by BLM to bend to beliefs they do not hold. Bigots to the core.

queereisernefront.bsky.social•21 days ago

Basically, we should look at conservatives the way conservatives look at trans people

johnroxton.bsky.social•21 days ago

As a rule, everybody who was just asking questions, just really interested in free speech, motivated by facts, worried about media credibility—they're really really quiet now.

burtonad.bsky.social•21 days ago

“Free speech,” on the right, has always been a riposte to the assertion that they were using “hate speech.”

“I’m able to repress, denigrate, insult or mock anyone I choose with no consequences. That’s free speech.”

leftinfighter.bsky.social•21 days ago

I agree but I think their message only gained salience because normies who didn't think that deep agreed with their assertions about free speech on the surface. Nobody took the time to patiently and non-angrily explain to normies, in the most remedial terms possible, the bigger picture implications.

burtonad.bsky.social•21 days ago

I think most people on the left and in the center chose to see it as a debating society question (“This House supports Free Speech”) and accepted the right’s bad faith assertion that it was an argument about the boundaries of difficult discussions, rather than the repressive tactic it actually is.

dissembly.bsky.social•20 days ago

Not true at all. People on the left were saying "Hey this is dumb bullshit and these guys are nazis" the whole time, constantly. Journalists and social media companies were relentlessly "hey lighten up killjoys lets do a few seig heils its no biggie" and constantly getting called out for it

leftinfighter.bsky.social•21 days ago

The way liberals debated the fake free speech warriors was awful. A lot of times they just said "I believe in free speech too, but..." which walked into their traps. What they should've done is cornered these people into explicitly supporting what they used the guise of free speech to argue against.

leftinfighter.bsky.social•21 days ago

"I'm glad you are coming around on free speech. Will you help me repost this petition ensuring trans black women can hold an open mic in a public park?"

"It is my free speech to not support that."

"We may not like what they say but must defend to the death their right to say it. Please share now."

griffonatrix.bsky.social•21 days ago

And if you *ever* just up and said it they would harass you and single you out and threaten you with defamation suits.

duffsovietunion.bsky.social•20 days ago

Even at the time, it was pointed out that it was obviously a stalking horse for transphobia and race science and the people who pointed this out were mobbed and mocked by the exact people they were obviously talking about.

wrynn.bsky.social•21 days ago

There are legit conversations (e.g. appropriate age for non-reversible med procedures) and then there's just hatred & scapegoating of people who don't conform. Anyone who was really just concerned w/ the former should now be loudly denouncing the latter. Plus all admin / Musk attacks on speech.

stevempars.bsky.social•21 days ago

Very reminiscent of "supply-side economics" which ostensibly was a rising tide floating all boats, but in actuality was a way to drastically cut taxes on the wealthy and put more money into their pockets.

stevempars.bsky.social•21 days ago

Exactly, like so many of these things what these people were professing and what they're actually looking to do are two different things. Free speech simply meant being able to say and act in ways that society used to ostracize.

cpi.bsky.social•20 days ago

God I hope Jesse Singal has to reckon with the damage he has done.

loki1001.bsky.social•21 days ago

I suppose pointing out hypocrisy is pointless, given how none of them actually care about being perceived as hypocrites, but even at the time it was obvious that the letter was simply an attack on trans people and a defense of race science.

anem.bsky.social•21 days ago

Especially since it was very obviously circulated by one of the most prolific users of SLAPP suits.

ositanwanevu.bsky.social•21 days ago

A: We've become too censorious as a society. It's intellectually important that elite spaces remain open even to ideas that seem wrong or offensive.

B: Oh, so like Holocaust denial?

A: Goodness! Of course not.

B: Creationism?

A: No...

B: So what then?

A: Oh...you know...

leftinfighter.bsky.social•21 days ago

I think liberals arguing in good faith with these performative free speech warriors, and implicitly presuming that the other side definitely doesn't mean stuff like Holocaust denial or creationism because they are self described liberals, is why they didn't corner these people the way you described.

electricland.bsky.social•21 days ago

*angry goose meme dot jpg*

ositanwanevu.bsky.social•21 days ago

We spent a solid 5-6 years doing this dance.

sophcw.bsky.social•21 days ago

yeah and anyone pointing out what was really going on was accused of "silencing" or being "authoritarian"

parkermolloy.com•21 days ago

And as a trans person, I gotta say... it was not fun.

"This clearly isn't about free speech. This is obviously about your feelings about people like me."

"How dare you."

craigforth.bsky.social•20 days ago

it’s the same nonsense dance as “being called a racist is just as bad as racism” (with the undercurrent being that it’s actually worse, somehow)

ositanwanevu.bsky.social•21 days ago

The best part of these exchanges would be when folks would land on the idea that the standards for what speech should be permissible in a given space should be determined by ... the popularity of a given opinion! People putatively arguing for free speech! Just total chicanery!

robertpbaird.com•21 days ago

And/or: the standard of free speech is that I should be able to say what I want without getting mocked on Twitter.

ositanwanevu.bsky.social•21 days ago

Right, as the experience of being mocked on Twitter was directly analogous to the Spanish Inquisition. Difficult to overstate how stupid all this was.

winterpancake.bsky.social•21 days ago

I've noticed free speech people are also orders of magnitude more eager to defend Nazis than communists and we all know why

duffsovietunion.bsky.social•20 days ago

You see this with Greenwald type lawyers too.
“It’s important to defend those who otherwise won’t get a defense”
“You mean like Black women, trans people etc?
“No, I mean Nazis”

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