Considering many have more than one job over there to keep everything together, why is it so common people talk about the US is rewarding hard working?
I could write an essay... It has deep roots going back to the Puritans and other religious sects who thought hard work was the way to heaven. Pushing into frontiers for a couple hundred years cemented hard work as the top American virtue.
It comes up in a lot of protestant sects to some degree so it's been kind of there since the first colonies, especially in New England. The more extreme groups (like ones that settled there) put a lot of emphasis on works and actions.
So even where it wasn't a specific religious doctrine and after those sects changed it still kind of permeated the culture. It's not the only thing at play in the US, but "Protestant work ethic" is still a phrase I've heard.
And it's always been a thing with immigration. The Irish in the 19th century or Latinos in the 21st - non-Americans, especially Catholics, are painted as lazy. A lot of American hangups, from work to alcohol to sex, go back to colonial Protestantism.
The history plus adopting the Victorian-era view of the poor translated to if you weren't successful it was a personal and moral failure. Throw in some racism for good measure and then have a Cold War with the USSR and Americans are conditioned to work ourselves to death instead of accepting aid.
And the whole story sold to immigrants that America was a land of opportunity if you worked hard (it's true that some escape generational poverty, but it's hard). I'm a history nerd and good at pattern recognition, so I really could talk about it all day.
It’s indeed interesting. I love history myself. I actually don’t know much about the American history in depth and it’s very interesting to read what you say.
That's because it needs to be gotten rid of and replaced with a different rule. All states should have a minimum wage comparable to their cost of living. Not a FEDERAL minimum wage.
That's a great plan in theory, but would you really trust Mississippi or Utah to actually set wages high enough to do that? We would then need the federal government to verify that wages are set appropriately, which basically gets us back to the same place
I don't think this is a complete sentence? And to be clear, the minimum wage isn't high enough _anywhere_. Realistically it should be at minimum 15-18 bucks an hour, likely with regional adjustments upwards into the mid-20s.
Go back to English class, it's a complete sentence. 2) no shit Sherlock..that's why THE STATES NEED TO DICTATE WHAT THEIR MINIMUM WAGE SHOULD BE. kind of the same as (god forgive me for saying this) California and Washington. Bevause obviously the wage in Mississippi to live would be different in NY
Well, in this country, they want you to work yourself to death so you can't access the money that you're rightfully owed through your earned benefits called Social Security. They want to poison your food, water, air.
I noticed the Scandinavian countries aren't in the list. I suppose we just didn't make this particular list. Something to be proud of, I suppose, as a Swede. 😊
If you look to the bottom of the graph the methodology is explained, so Turkiye is only so high up as their median wage is so low to begin with that halving it doesn't make as big a change as in countries below. So I don't think it's fair to say the numbers make zero sense, but they are imperfect.
I meant it’s using bad statistics to make something look far different from practical reality. So while my comment may have been too simplistic my sentiment stands.
Republicans have beat up on US workers for fifty years, destroying the middle class, shifting wealth to the already wealthy, and pushing poverty on the already poor.
Don't know about the rest or how old that graph is, but where the UK is in question, it ain't correct by a HUGE margin. I'd say we're near the bottom right now.
Those are probably the hours a Premier League footballer does a week between training and matchday. Without a doubt they’re living well on those hours.
Maybe the thieves in the City too, although most of them do long hours for the extortionate amount they earn. I know a few.
- They love capitalism so much and yet they never wonder why the costs of everything keeps going up.
- Corporations give countless layoffs despite making record profits.
Since the "free market" is their sacred cow then what is it they complain about when things go according to plan?
Wrote this 4 yrs ago but everything remains accurate and relevant. Failure to make the minimum wage a living wage leads to consistent misallocation of capital, hindering economic development.
The first Dem who rises to the top of the primaries focused on obliterating this oligarcy and goes all in for universal healthcare will get the working class back.
America is screaming for populism and if we don't give it to them from the left, they'll keep going to maga for it. Centrism is dead.
The UK numbers are wrong. 40 hours of work won't even cover your rent. There are people who work longer hours and still live in poverty. It's a shit hole. 🇬🇧💩🤮
No wonder more people want to LEAVE the UK. Overworked, underpaid, overtaxed, burnt out.
Only the rich can leave after fucking it up. 🇬🇧💩🤮
USA freedom is freedom TO [verb]. Do what you want, if you have the resources. Drive all over the country, own everything you can afford, consume whatever you can.
'Socialist' (yes, *spit*) but also more 'European' freedom is FROM [noun]. Freedom from hunger, from healthcare worry, from poverty.
It depends upon the amount of benefits received. I know someone who gets pension, pension credit, CT & rent paid and so if he worked 20+ hours at min wage he wouldn’t be in poverty.
This graph doesn’t look right. But yeah, working 70 hours so I can try to equalize the expenditures due to costs. Having a child pre-Trump second term was probably the worst thing to ever happen to me financially.
And this doesn't account for how many people are actually working at that wage. The majority of Americans live in states with a higher minimum wage than the federal minimum. And because it's so far below the median wage (as this chart shows) only a tiny fraction of jobs pay that little. 2/
It would make more sense to ask how many hours a 10th percentile worker would need. Or (and this may be shocking) just look at the actual poverty statistics. They're pretty well designed! 3/3
I don't recognise the UK's place in this ranking given our high levels of childhood poverty and housing issues. Can you provide any more information on the source?
NEVER FORGET 77 million POORLY EDUCATED MISINFORMED BRAINWASHED EXTREMELY IGNORANT RACIST HOMOPHOBIC CHRISTIAN NOTZIS VOTED FOR A RACIST TWICE IMPEACHED 34 FELON ADJUDICATED GRAPIST CON ARTIST CRIMINAL THIEF WHO STOLE CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS & SOLD NUCLEAR SECRETS TO SAUDIS FOR $2 BILLION 😡
Yeah, I'm skeptical of their numbers. I live in Japan. Minimum wage ain't very high here. And yeah, I get cheap health care, but I still need to pay for a place to live and food, neither of which are cheap here. I'd need to dig into those numbers.
The definition of poverty they are using is “50% of the median disposable income for that country”. No-one is going to be comfortable on that, but seems a reasonable way to compare different economies.
23 hours in the UK cannot be right. We have 20% of the population living in poverty as of 2025 and our government is following in the footsteps of Trump: tax cuts for the wealthy, gutting of the government departments, removal of benefits for the poor and needy.
Hate to tell you this but whoever put this together has never visited the UK if they think you can get by working 23 hours a week at minimum wage! It won't even cover rent
It says hours that a person receiving ‘benefit’ must work to escape poverty. Benefits can vary dramatically but this graph suggests to me that benefits in UK are higher than in most parts of the world! Whether or not that’s right is another matter!
Ours are variable depending on age and whether you have kids (&if you live with partner but not relevant for the graphic) but they also decrease with earnings so cancel out. You would be in poverty (c.1 in 5 in UK are). But we do have universal healthcare. It's difficult to directly compare
I have tried to make sense of the data and there seems to be a massive difference between the medium disposable income in the USA being much higher than in the UK (and Japan), but the minimum wage is set much lower in the US. So the difference is much wider?
Yep, we're on putin's puppet path to making America great. Again? Yep, I have a cybertruck for sale at $29.95. Battery is optional and a steal at $99,999.
I didn't want to just tell you what to think, I wanted to understand your perspective because it's baffling to me. If you're asking I personally think the clear takeaway is that the US and other countries need to do a lot more to take care of their people.
People receiving benefits from their employers--healthcare, retirement/social security contributions, paid sick leave, etc aren't in need of "getting off" anything. Americans work insanely long hours just to survive, which surely isn't "great".
That's how I interpret it. There's nothing clearly stated on that chart that indicates otherwise. Poor wording it seems, if we each understand something different when reading it.
if you have a job, receive benefits and are still "POOR" then yikes.
can't imagine working for an owner that could watch me suffer in poverty level, work for a small business but show that business your worth and they'll value you where you should be.
I think you are tragically uninformed about the state of a significant chunk of our population. The term "working poor" applies. There's a book with the same term as its title, might want to check it out.
Pt 1 Interesting. I've always believed from experience living in the Canada, US & UK, it's cheaper in the Uk. Most salaries are much lower. UK Min wage higher. Housing expensive. Health free. Food & transportation cheap. Christmas huge bags of carrots were £0.49 Non processed food is cheap. ...
Pt 2 Grocery stores are more expensive than markets. Markets are everywhere and for £6 you a huge bag of vegetables you can eat for a week. Herbs grow for free everywhere. All you need is rice, beans, lentils, pasta and flour and optional meat or fish. Libraries have no shortage of cook books..
Pt 3 The US has a huge problem with processed food. Plus growing food. Most doesn't meet Canadian or EU regulations. The US also has a huge problem with minimum wages. Shocking that people work for tips (charity). The drug trade is a symptom of people needing to numb themselves into oblivion. ..
And this is *with* benefits? Think how many people go without because of the cost, or how many places keep everyone part time so they don’t have to provide them. 😢
But hey! CANADA!! Become the 51st state and you can almost DOUBLE the hours you need to work every week to escape poverty!! No one else will offer you this GREAT deal! It’s a one-time offer from the Orange Turd Dealmaker!
At this point, it would actually be refreshing for someone in the national level of government to just go ahead and admit that they want for us to suffer and die young.
Cultural differences should be taken into account. In the area in Germany where I live, you can live off of 30k before taxes (2,500 per month before taxes would be approx 1,700 after taxes for me). Not too comfortable, maybe no vacations, but not in poverty.
In The Netherlands my monthly premiums are €160 and there is an annual €385 deductible, the rest is covered by insurance. If your annual income before tax is below €39,719 you're eligible for additional support up to €131 per month. Minimum wage is €14.06 per hour. Benefits are 70% of minimum wage.
Healthcare is being paid by yourself from the 2500, that’s one of the reasons why you end up with 1700. in this case, I would pay roughly 217€ for healthcare and my employer would pay the same amount, too. We share the costs. (If self employed, you pay the whole amount yourself, of course)
The poverty line in the US is well below the living wage. Living wage in most states is at least 3x 7.25 @40 hours/week. $7.25 is roughly 14,500 pre tax at full time. The median living wage is close to 50k in the US. The lowest state median is just over 40k https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/livable-wage-by-state
A chart is one thing. Doing something is another. Many US states stay happily in the bottom fifth on wages, education, heath care coverage and find plenty of time for anti trans laws
That's why you see a lot of grifters sides with trump during his campaign and after. It's easy to make money from easy targets instead of getting a real job.
This is why we need to transition to economic democracy. If every company was a worker cooperative based on dividend-paying capital, no one would live in poverty and social safety nets would be unnecessary. They also enable true free markets with competition and cooperation, not crushing monopolies.
I’m Not sure the U.K. figure is true currently. I would say it is way down the list. Wealth inequality and recent inflation have pushed even more people into poverty in the U.K, and the current govt are continuing Tory policy of cutting help to the needy rather than taxing the ultra rich. Broken.
As of April 2025, UK minimum wage: £12.21/hr. UK poverty line (~£15k/year) surpassed by working ~24 hrs/week.
But this doesn’t take into account zero hours contracts etc.
As of April 2024, 4.5M UK workers were paid below the real living wage.
actually, it's wrong about Australia. housing costs here mean renters on the minimum wage working 32 hours a week are generally in poverty (and many are homeless), and many folk in the Q1 wage band that rent are in degrees of poverty (and many homeless) especially one income woman-led households.
This is shameful, absolutely embarrassing when we've been told for years that America is the wealthiest country in the world and we should all be envious ???? Yeah, I never fell for the envy thing, but I am embarrassed for you...
Most (if not all) of those countries - except USA - have national health that is free or a fraction of the cost in the US. Most also have much more affordable or free higher education.
Japan has a modern, fair, liberal, constitution and Bill of Rights than the United States, Fact. After WWII the US rewrote Germany's and Japan's constitution and their economic policies and laws. Unfortunately the US ran out of time before we could re write our own.
Thanks Reagan thanks Republicans, thanks Fox News, thanks people that have been dumbed down and have ZERO critical thinking skills because of Republican policies. We have NOT been great for a while and we are currently THE WORST!
How can Japan be 14 hours? Everything I've read says that they're working well over 40, They install sleeping and nap areas at work for people that are working well over but then if anyone actually uses the areas it's looked down upon. Is that just not everywhere over there?
No it's not like that at all - some men do work long hours but usually that is because they are looking for promotion and the wife does not work. Two income families do not work those long hours. They have very liberal vacation and holiday days as well. Rest is respected in Japan.
But once you start to escape poverty, there is no grace period to build up that wealth, instead they see you making money so now you have to pay full price for CHIP,you get kicked off WIC/food stamps instantly,etc.
Make more money, pay more money. Unless you're ultra wealthy,then you get to keep it.
We were lucky enough to land a daycare scholarship that didn't kick you off until you were earning like 25% over their max qualifying income. Even said in their literature it was to not knock you down just when you get your feet under you. Don't see why it isn't all like that.
I was almost off Medicaid on ACA,which most would probably think is a stupid celebration but there is a two year waiting period to see the only dentist, not two hours away, that accepts Medicaid. I'd marry my partner and go on his health insurance but then my student loan payments would kill us.
Also, if we were married, I wouldnt be able to get Medicaid. Before that would've been disastrous because he never had a good job. Now he works for a steel union so I could get his insurance. If we married. But in the long run, it would hurt us financially because of the loans.
His income would be my income if we were married. So yes, he'd be responsible for my student loans too. I believe even if we did marry and then divorced but I'm not certain on that one. We've been together 15 years and will never be able to marry. I was finally hoping to soon. Now its not happening
Yup. They keep making it ever harder to get onto social programs & to keep them. If they even imagine that you're not sharing all your data w/ them - especially income sources - they kick you out & fine you the difference
The GOP made a boogieman out of the Welfare Queen... and it won them elections
Comments
Cyn~
I think you mean the American form of capitalism.
USA = hostile competition, market forces induce fairness
Japan = friendly competition, private cartels induce fairness
Wage slavery….
"Greatest country of Earth"
"Only in America"
fuck
me
Must be easily at least pre-2019
Those are probably the hours a Premier League footballer does a week between training and matchday. Without a doubt they’re living well on those hours.
Maybe the thieves in the City too, although most of them do long hours for the extortionate amount they earn. I know a few.
On second thought, perhaps it's just the average number of hours one has to spend getting to the next foodbank? 🤔
Any time someone mentions 'inflation', I ask curiously, how can it be inflation when corporations report RECORD PROFITS?!!
That gets them thinking... hopefully?
- They love capitalism so much and yet they never wonder why the costs of everything keeps going up.
- Corporations give countless layoffs despite making record profits.
Since the "free market" is their sacred cow then what is it they complain about when things go according to plan?
They don’t know how to think.
'No tax on tips' was a lie of course.
https://jcawley-37424.medium.com/minimum-wages-are-fuel-that-drives-the-economy-4fead17cdf6
America is screaming for populism and if we don't give it to them from the left, they'll keep going to maga for it. Centrism is dead.
No wonder more people want to LEAVE the UK. Overworked, underpaid, overtaxed, burnt out.
Only the rich can leave after fucking it up. 🇬🇧💩🤮
No freedom.
No prosperity.
No meritocracy.
Only a haven for the evil rich.
America is a neo-feudal nightmare.
#usa #americandream #delusion #evil #rich #neofeudalism #america #nightmare
'Socialist' (yes, *spit*) but also more 'European' freedom is FROM [noun]. Freedom from hunger, from healthcare worry, from poverty.
40 hour week for $80
🇺🇸🇱🇻
Thanks to Mermaid Mams and Nazi Boy, it is now IMPOSSIBLE to escape poverty in America
Canada is way too low!! Needs to be much higher.
How sad for all of us.
#taxwealthmore
can't imagine working for an owner that could watch me suffer in poverty level, work for a small business but show that business your worth and they'll value you where you should be.
NO ONE is digging their way out of poverty on $580, especially once taxes are taken out.
I need for people to stop blurring the facts.
That’s only $30,160 annually, before taxes.
Be serious.
It is clear that economists here don’t know how what the expenses of an average American house hold is like.
For most, that would cover 1 year of rent, nothing more. NOTHING. MORE.
I think everyone knows that US medical care is among the most expensive, and is also not centered on curing the patient. It is a MAJOR expense.
This is the federal guideline for "poverty", WAY low https://aspe.hhs.gov/topics/poverty-economic-mobility/poverty-guidelines/prior-hhs-poverty-guidelines-federal-register-references/2024-poverty-guidelines-computations
The US is waaaaaay behind!
Not really the “land of opportunity” these days. I guess we do have the opportunity to be trapped in poverty though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_to_Be_Done%3F
The bottom looks like slave labor.
Freedom, eh?
But this doesn’t take into account zero hours contracts etc.
As of April 2024, 4.5M UK workers were paid below the real living wage.
The "Biden economy" was based on consumer spending
The state of affairs reflected in this graphic is NOT AN ACCIDENT
Che nemmeno viene nominata, maledetta destra
Deluded America we’re #1
And we'll give you a higher education, but you better make money off it, because we're taking it.
Oh, we won't tell you that your target job is being filled by Visa holders because companies can pay them less.
How many hours do you guys work?!?
That probably doesn't include office jobs where a nap area might be installed.
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/675683/poverty-by-america-by-matthew-desmond/
Make more money, pay more money. Unless you're ultra wealthy,then you get to keep it.
The GOP made a boogieman out of the Welfare Queen... and it won them elections