In our defense, our moral framework is based on harm reduction and fairness. So it’s difficult for us to be unfair/hurt others. Conservatives’ is authority/loyalty/piety with a belief in a rigid social hierarchy & a shocking capacity for cruelty against designated out-groups. But we can fight ✊🏼
I would argue that liberals moral framework is based on performative civility and maintaining a social illusion of normalcy at all costs, up to and including using violence against "lesser" groups that challenge or refute that normalcy.
Those qualities are associated with a conservative brain (enlarged right amygdala effecting 40% of men/30% women) causing opposition to change/others, conspiratorial, anti-science, conformity, order, tradition, less complexity, purity, authority, power, negativity bias, distinctions with out-groups.
Non-conservatives are open to novelty, unconventional, flexibility, new experiences, tolerance for uncertainty, minimization of harm, equality, empathy, universal community, expressions of warmth (vs power), no clear bias.
The rules / laws passed by the GOP are usually in place so someone can rip off the taxpayers. Those rules you can ignore. I think we should just obey the constitution, but the liberal right's interpretation of it. The GOP are traitors and thieves, in my opinion.
Hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah. GOP is in it for the endgame, whatever that end game is. If Musk is becoming the endgame they're likely feeling a little bit ill.
It is hard for me to understand their spineless compliance even though it literally breaks all their rules lmao. They don't care about rule -breaking, they'll just do anything to avoid having to fight for anything, to avoid the potential for any kind of conflict.
It's a religious thing. If you look at it not as adherence to the rules that actually exist but adherence to what they think the rules lought to be and a stubborn belief that following their imaginary rules is an end unto itself it makes s bit more sense.
Most of the spineless liberals I know are not religious. They're just so conflict avoidant that they'd rather abandon their values than their temporary comfort. If you make them uncomfortable, you're fodder. It's utterly antisocial, colonial death-cult ideology shit
Agreed, emphasis on the cult part of death cult. They don't consciously know it but many of them are adherents of the American Civic Religion, and undeclared and usually unacknowledged religion that worships American exceptionalism and Americas norms and institutions. It's a weird one bc it's a
Religion it's adherents don't know that they practice and don't know is a religion. But it's one of the best lenses for understanding the beliefs and behaviors of American liberals. They can't take materialist positions because it goes against their faith.
The "tough love" and "this is an intervention" parenting that glorified "my house, my rules" authoritarian parenting and fuels the demand for troubled teen torture camps.
Both value enforcing the obedience of the "problem child" and avoid considering that the whole family is fucked up mentally.
Sir you are in denial, many great civil rights speakers have discussed liberals & it's never in a good light.
Find out MLK's opinion on them, or Malcolm X's
You are probably right, but what's the alternative. Being a selfish, right wing, conservative bigot? That seems counterproductive. I'm not an apologist. I'm certainly not going to look for common ground with those types of people.
Nope, that's not the only alternative. Maybe evaluating why you think Democrats & Republicans are your only options & how that thought pattern only serves the status quo. Socialist, communists, anarchists... There are many other options besides neo liberalism.
Maybe I'm balking at the definitions. I would think that liberals include socialist and communist. Am I wrong in that? Is there some definition of liberal that I'm missing? I am firmly at least a Democratic Socialist, of not father left, even. I thought that was pretty liberal.
Nope communists & socialists aren't liberals. Liberals are just conservatives with more rules about good manners, masquerading as leftist when they still support capitalism & imperialism. https://thisvsthat.io/liberalism-vs-socialism
Imagine being a decent person because it's just the right thing to do - I don't understand how it's a hard concept...really telling on themselves though by insisting the only thing stopping them from becoming rapists, robbers & murders is legality 🧐
right now we have democratic politicians allowing nazis to plunder the treasury and refusing to do all in their power to stop it because they have no integrity
liberals consider institutionalism to be a kind of religion you see
That and capitalism.
When I say do no harm to others, that doesn't cover these weird white supremacists, you can't give the people who would kill you the benefits of doing no harm, they'll just abuse you for it, at the very least you gotta **ck them in the ***s before p******g them in the f***
This is accurate. My family of origin was atheist yet incurably liberal, and that adherence to “center-left” privileged nonsense certainly filled the space left by the Catholic Church and then some.
It's so weird to me because it's a basic concept we all learn in preschool or kindergarten...I guess I hung on to that one & disregarded any conflicting points later on in life.
As someone who sees herself in this comment, I’ve been really trying to nail down my own internal code, and practice tolerating whatever negative responses come my way for following it. Like another commenter says, a lot of folks get this way trying to survive.
The way I'd put it is "there's a difference between following rules for your own safety and following them because they exist."
Being able to break rules is a privilege to an extent.
I'm pretty sure they have rules, but they don't necessarily even know what they are. Tyrants are stable like that. Eventually there will be rifts and firings. That will be something to exploit
Difficult ha! Yes. But can and has and must be done.
Rebecca Solnit posted an incredible interview today about the power of regular people /community groups banding together in broad-based coalition to create social movements.
Playbook. Hope.
Came to the conclusion that we’re screwed after I made an Inglorious Bastards reference on January 6th and got chastised by liberals for violent language.
Yes, and that's exactly why liberal politicians are not equipped to deal with the current brand of Republican. Fairness and decency is in their nature, even when it's to their own detriment.
This is all because The West Wing spoonfed liberals fantasies of putting bigots in their place with rhetoric and without violence, without remembering that it's fiction and nothing actually works like that.
you're not screaming into the void, you're screaming at them
and it gives them the sads to hear you so they do the thing
that amounts to a helpless shrug and retreat to debate their ideological opponents in the country club
It’s an existential crisis for rule followers in bureaucracy right now. “Do I follow the order saying I’m fired or do I follow the rule saying they aren’t allowed to fire me like that?”
No Women Wednesday! A way to show our economic power. Don't buy anything on Wednesdays! Every Wednesday until we see change! If you are able, call out from work!
We need to make it easy for all women, so this can be done anywhere and still have an impact! We need to come together to show our power
So true. We do love order. We follow the rules when we agree to follow them. The blatant disregard for the constitution from all branches of government takes a bit to digest. Give us a moment. We are fixin’ to change all that!
This is like that time Trudeau lectured Indigenous nations about “the rule of law” while trying to force his Justice Minister to let SNC Lavalin off the hook for its illegal activities.
All the red at-will employment states where the employment options are either part-time minimum wage or x degree here with x number of years of experience with very little in between the two, unless your family or mentor "knows someone"...
Explains why some voted for deregulation of workplaces.
When I travel to DC for work it always bothers me that nobody seems to jaywalk downtown (in spite of light change sequences that are like twice as long as comparable US cities!)
You have to reset their concept of what the rules are. A whole lot of “liberals” are people who grew up when (I hate the term, but) Political Correctness was the social rule. They have no internal code, just avoidance of sanction.
There are also a lot of liberals who grew up during the civil rights fight and the Vietnam war, so they may have more resistance in them than outwardly appears.
"being left is being correct too early" really keeps hitting. every blue-country-club pearl clutcher will love anti-genocide student protestors in some amount of time.
As the classic saying goes: "A liberal is someone who opposes every war except the current war and supports all civil rights movements except the one that’s going on right now."
The many decades history of the Ds not enforcing laws that the Rs break is exactly how we got here because if there are no consequences then that law doesn't exist.
And that’s it right there. I’ve said after watergate that the Democrats seem to have been embarrassed of the fall of a President. And they never fully investigated the Republicans due to decorum. We need a law and order AG if we get another administration. Jail them all in Gitmo without bail.
It's all about framing - get them to follow the rules SO HARD nothing gets done. Confirm every signature, get everything in triplicate, force them to redo it if a field has a smudge, etc.
The problem with trying to convince them to work to rule is that they follow what they think should be the rules with religious fervor, rather than what the actual rules are. Its a vibe of ethics.
No Women Wednesday! A way to show our economic power. Don't buy anything on Wednesdays! Every Wednesday until we see change! If you are able, call out from work!
We need to make it easy for all women, so this can be done anywhere and still have an impact! We need to come together to show our power
I read 18th Brumaire recently and about 1/2 through Marx stops calling the various bourgeois liberal factions of Jacobins and Montagnards by their names and just starts calling them all "The Party of Order" and I thought it was wild how middle class politics really havent change much lol
True! To be fair, we need to remind them what the rules are, and what the limits of authority are. While many Black movements have shown what it takes to resist authority, their stories have been suppressed. Reminding people what resistance and good trouble looks like is much needed right now.
So spot on. Watching democrats in congress talk about procedure, making laws, and accepting thing like a rent-a-cop not letting them into the EPS is mind blowing.
Paradox of tolerance applies. If the enemy seizes control of the instruments of law it's necessary to recognize that the purpose of the law has been subverted and use power to take back control in order to correct the law.
The federalist papers and other docs from the 1st chapter of American history like Common Sense and other stuff written by Thomas Payne, Ben Franklin, Alexander Hamilton--should have some formulas
Putin/Xi are collaborating with billionaire media owners & their paid for broadcasters/influencers 🧐 to destabilize Western Democracies & Liberal Opposition through disinformation/distortion/distraction 🧐.
Some guy wrote a seven paragraph tirade accusing me of being a "demagogue"
This was a secret Facebook group mostly for city hall staffers and "urbanist" bloggers, I found out because a friendly acquaintance invited me to come defend myself. Incredible stuff
Boomers and Gen X are inherently selfish and authoritarian in 99% of cases. Millennials and Gen Z need therapy for YEARS to heal from their childhoods and unlearn abuse tactics. Now we watch the same folks destroy democracy with their old playbooks for raising children.
It’s because it triggers collective trauma, genuinely. This admin and the GOP uses CLASSIC psychological abuse tactics. Gaslighting, DARVO, the list goes on 🥲
I did not say all, I said most, and the shoe fit for you. So much so, that you needed to tell me I’m wrong instead of seeking clarity or trying to understand another’s perspective or how they came to that conclusion. And then the sass to follow, a predictable addition of evidence for my claim 🥲
It is because following rules has led to safe, stable and comfortable lives. They have to be convinced following the rules will not be safe, comfortable, or stable, & they have to be convinced the left will bring back those qualities. To them leftist don't have a history of successful outcomes.
itll be interesting to see if, at all, this shifts the attitudes of federal civil servants (some of whom I love dearly, but are institutionalists to the core)
Non-compliance isn't necessarily breaking the rules. It can be following them to the absolute extreme in a way that is so detailed that it becomes petty and obstructionist. Rs are not following the rules. People may cheer, but it should damage them eventually. Unfortunately our rep as a country too
It's not the only way. If we individually break random rules because we don't like them, how are we different than the current regime? This country was formed through a consensus of change, creation of laws and action to assert our rights. We the people need to act.
yes. The only way more people will refuse to comply is if we build up actual numbers. Individuals aren't brave [with a few exceptions] so numbers are key.
No Women Wednesday! A way to show our economic power. Don't buy anything on Wednesdays! Every Wednesday until we see change! If you are able, call out from work!
We need to make it easy for all women, so this can be done anywhere and still have an impact! We need to come together to show our power
The French have it right. General strike until the system grinds to a halt. Yet, you see libs and our democratic leaders virtue signal and play the coy game. It's all controlled opposition.
Odd that there are thousands of people here agreeing that we need to organize and build up our numbers, and all of us agreeing that we have no idea how to do so. We're all right here, we're all currently aligned toward the same goals.
White Americans are the biggest cowards of the lot including so-called "liberals". Last time he was in office I had to scream at a bunch of them at a march in Balto. They wanted to March on the sidewalk. I got so pissed BPD taught me how to shut a street down and let me do it.
Huh? My whole life it’s been my liberal friends breaking trends and breaking rules. The rules I see us follow tend to be things like… not having illegal guns or littering???
It's the generartions that grew up under Zero Tolerance policies which were used to protect bullies and stop victims from defending themselves, rather than it's proclaimed purpose to stop bullying.
Comments
so many "support" people only to the extent that the law and corporate policies allows.
It feels like they're more concerned with appearing correct than actually helping people...
because their leaders are 🙃
Both value enforcing the obedience of the "problem child" and avoid considering that the whole family is fucked up mentally.
so yes it takes a while for a prosocial institutionalist to get to the point of noncompliance.
and you need to offer a new framework of rules beyond 'don't comply'.
We're here, and we're ready.
Find out MLK's opinion on them, or Malcolm X's
https://thisvsthat.io/liberalism-vs-socialism
For example 10000 cars peacefully searching and occupying parking spots on an important day causing mass inconvenience
1000000 people overpaying taxes by 100 USD and all filing for refund claims - inconvenience again
Make the rulers lives inconvenient
Plus, how do you know you're *not* paying that money directly to tRusk?
liberals consider institutionalism to be a kind of religion you see
When I say do no harm to others, that doesn't cover these weird white supremacists, you can't give the people who would kill you the benefits of doing no harm, they'll just abuse you for it, at the very least you gotta **ck them in the ***s before p******g them in the f***
Being able to break rules is a privilege to an extent.
Like I can move the term dei and still practice the principal? But at a certain point the rules may become untenable. And then what
Rebecca Solnit posted an incredible interview today about the power of regular people /community groups banding together in broad-based coalition to create social movements.
Playbook. Hope.
https://meditations-in-an-emergency.ghost.io/the-nature-of-our-power-a-conversation-with-political-scientist-erica-chenoweth/
Yeah. Yeah I am because she is.
you're not screaming into the void, you're screaming at them
and it gives them the sads to hear you so they do the thing
that amounts to a helpless shrug and retreat to debate their ideological opponents in the country club
🙉🙈🙊
We need to make it easy for all women, so this can be done anywhere and still have an impact! We need to come together to show our power
1. Respect one another.
2. Obey just laws.
3. Participate (ie. Vote)
4. Disobey unjust laws.
They are rule followers to a fault cuz the federal government is meticulous about rules
The big thing is we have to remind them they swore an oath to the constitution, not the president
And they are NOT to obey illegal orders.
They are looking at Terrorism charges.
Explains why some voted for deregulation of workplaces.
It's not DEI keeping them out of those jobs.
So we need to reset the social rules.
So part of our job is to lead them back.
African Americans know this too well, especially if they are from the south. You can follow every law and still go to jail.
We need to make it easy for all women, so this can be done anywhere and still have an impact! We need to come together to show our power
But if Luigi had showed us anything, it's that once the left gives up on compliance, they do noncompliance very effectively.
We review-bombed it on Yelp and the secret chat for young "progressive" Dems in the city LOST ITS MIND.
They were so mad I'd encouraged people to... break Yelp's terms of service, lmao
This was a secret Facebook group mostly for city hall staffers and "urbanist" bloggers, I found out because a friendly acquaintance invited me to come defend myself. Incredible stuff
Time to watch the box set of Mutiny on the Bounty
We need to make it easy for all women, so this can be done anywhere and still have an impact! We need to come together to show our power
Why do we still feel isolated?
The curse of passivity is on the land. It is very difficult to break people out of what's almost a trance in relation to the world around them.
In trainings, you need to take people through "breaking the 4th wall." But, not for theater. For everyday life.