i *HATE* planned obsolescence so much as someone who lost interest in tech updates 10 years ago. my 2015 macbook pro is doing fine but slowly the software is becoming incompatible 😒
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I guess I have been somewhat unfair letting the sadness of the GImp 3.0 get under my skin, I know it’s only adjacent but it really dug into me w/memories of the heedlessness of the Linux “evangelist” sphere at that time.
My tablet from 2016 is still kicking without a scratch on it... but it takes 20 minutes to load anything and 99% of apps aren't available for it anymore
With computers it’s not as much planned obsolescence as organic and required. Hardware changes, speed improvements and people’s expectations of new software means it gets too expensive to maintain perpetual backward compatibility.
experienced this w/ a still very functional decade old ipad, had to jailbreak it to use the fucking youtube app, on top of a few webservices no longer working b/c they require specific security features that apple won't push to old ios.
Will be the same problem w/ my 2013 macbook air eventually.
That’s not planned obsolescence bro. Since then the Mac lineup has starred using completely different processors that run software specifically made for them
it is planned obsolescence. if the source code was distributed along with the software, it could be compiled (or unlikely in most cases, be made to be able to compile) to run on their hardware. they planned on not releasing the source code.
It's a different CPU architecture. Releasing source code written to run on ARM is not the same as x86. And even then, there's a compatibility layer. Your laptop is just old and slowing down. Hardware ages, it's like complaining that a 15 year old car is not driving as well.
Actually, "security" is one of the main excuses. meanwhile you can install a recent version of Linux and have a "secure" experience in super old hardware
Linux security is derived from its massive open source community that are willing to write their own software to support whatever hardware they want. Apple being a private company has no incentive to dedicate big engineering resources to aging hardware - and they're already better at this than most!
what if the software relies on an inherently insecure protocol or API? (is that super unrealistic?) or just relies on a library that isn't supported anymore? source code wouldn't help then
Not talking about insecure software but make new software compatible with the old hardware or keep the security support to the public (and not only for private purposes). Which is possible. Govs and Banks pay a lot of money for even Windows XP support
One of those reasons, on vended UNIX, is the end of operating system support. macOS is a vended *nix. Some people do things like use open firmware to try to run newer OSes, but I won’t even link to them, look them up if you like.
That didn’t stop apple from discontinuing support for x86_64 Intel Macs before the arm Macs were even a thing (for instance, 2012 MacBook Air discontinued after Catalina)
Of course you can use OpenCore to force newer versions on that device, sooo… why block updates in the first place?
Nah, that's called "outdated," which is a normal side effect of the ongoing software development process. Software evolves, your MBP hardware doesn't. "Planned obsolescence" is something entirely different.
To be fair a 2015 MacBook pro lasting until 2024 is extremely good. My windows laptop from 2022 can’t update to windows 11, top notch move on Apple for their devices surviving for so long!
Weird! What kind of laptop is it? I’ve noticed that some sites (even Best Buy and Amazon) will sell old hardware as newer model years than they really are- older specs but with like a new stick of RAM to make it the 2023 model.
this SHOULD be illegal. I dislike this so much. but of course hurts the bottom line. there are literally new computers with same hardware every 6 months. it’s bonkers. every 3 years a redesign. literally for no reason.
Aged 18, I wrote a complete business system (stock/customer management, billing, payroll, accounting, etc) for my 2nd employer, and they're still using it today, 35 years later, without maintenance. A few quirks, rather than pay to have a y2k issue fixed, they just remove the cmos-bat
and reboot intermittently to work around a built-in expiration date in the 4GL they had me write the system with, and a couple other minor issues. I visited them in 2017, they were still running it, even kept the emergency modem I would have no way to connect to any more :)
The original hardware died in 199[45] when the building was struck by lightning and an rs232 cable they'd wrapped around a girder between buildings, against my advice, had carried a lot of the charge down into the machine and popped the cpu + otherchips.
The next iteration was stolen, thief generously waiting for a backup to finish, pause for 90s, and rewind the tape. Removed and left the tape, so when they rushed and bought a replacement pc the day after, they were up and running again an hour after it was set up.
They've replaced the machine 2 times since for various reasons, but the biggest change was that they got someone to upgrade the 4GL environment to enable a few additional apps
2011 27" iMac with upgraded graphics card, additional SSD, 32GB of RAM... have kept it on High Sierra as a stable family machine all these years but finding more and more incompatibilities... may have to move to unsupported with OpenCore soon... :(
It’s an issue. We update our hardware regularly but Apple stuff is expensive. My partner is a high-tech patent attorney and my tech guru. Without him I’d be spending more time at the Apple Store. We “friendcycle” our hardware and people get a lot of use from them. Happy Holidays.
My favorite is when I update an old iPad and it gets intentionally bricked so they can say, "well, here's a small discount on a new one". Oh, so it's a $700 "repair" then? Bye, Apple.
Yep, not sure why so many machines have it off by default. Ran into that the other day working on a PC that survived a fire and had sat for a little bit. Was just trying to get everything up to date lol
That’s obscene. Get a nerd friend to install Linux for you (or do it yourself if you have the chops). I used it all through university and it treated me well
Was it new old stock or something? Windows 11 should be supported on basically any computer going back to 2017. If it's newer than that it could be that the TPM is turned off.
Which reminds me of buying a Dr Martin's Boots. And falling for, the shiny footwear delusion. Said boots wouldn't shine.I binned them. Later it dawned on me the Boots were waxed & would have been less sublime militarystick🗝️
nothing to do with planned obsolescence... try maintaining up to date soft on a growing number of devices/versions over the years... it's impossible and you do want latest security patches if only that...
Heh, felt. I still have my Dell Latitude E6540 from my college days that I got in 2014, and it too is also facing a similar software end of life conundrum, albeit in a different way. (I'll probably replace W10 with Linux on it once the former reaches EOL completely)
Apple products suddenly becoming unusable is distinct (in the extreme) from the other tech products we use. You're describing a feature (not a bug), of their entire business model. Spend a 5th of the price on a machine from someone else. It will still be able to access the World Wide Web (r).
It's cheaper, it's more sustainable, and if you like Linux you can essentially turn any old PC into a forever PC that's supported forever (kind of, even Linux has EOL, but virtually true).
Agreed. Though, the fact your machine has just about kept up for the last 10 years is still great! Reckon it'd be half the time if you had a Windows laptop.
My current windows machine is from 2013 and running Windows 11 with registry tweaks to bypass tpm checks. Unlike Apple, MS doesnt stop you from updating if you're willing to do a tiny bit of tweaking.
You can use them as long as you want. But the OS and the software will still get dated. I have an old DOS pc. Sure, I can't surf the web with it, but I can sure damn play some old school game son it
I went through two windows based laptops from 2009-2013 using them only for my night classes. Switched to Macbook, and that was still going strong when it became obsolete last year. I expect my new macbook will outlast me.
And you know the best part? Apple pressures users to update their software and gives them ZERO RECOURSE if old apps you've used for years aren't compatible with the new software. You just have to hope the developer released a patch.
MS has been doing this for decades. New Windows, new Office products, new standards that won't match the old ones for no clear reason. Now it's industry standard.
i dont have experience with that specific model but you may be able to squeeze some more years out of it with opencore legacy patcher. still running a 2012 mac pro and 2013 macbook air here
My 2011 iMac with its C7 adobe suite is slowly dying. I’ve been clinging to it with my fingernails because I can’t fathom having to pay a monthly subscription for illustrator and photoshop. I’m going to need to update soon and I don’t WANNA! Might switch to affinity just as an FU to adobe.
I'm old enough to remember SCSI. There was like 20 different types of connectors. For external use that is. There were 20 MORE types meant for internal use. I worked at a computer store, we had a wall dedicated to SCSI adapters.
SCSI was the main thing that gave Macs an advantage among creative professionals. You could only do a RAID with SCSI and that was needed because a single hard drive wasn't fast enough for high quality video. You could get a SCSI card for PC but nobody did that and the Windows drivers were sus.
My 2013 macbook pro is a workhorse and works just fine. Still using the outdated 2020 Adobe suite. Just the battery seems to be puffing up (my fault tho, never replaced it)
I have a 2016 MBP. Just getting by. Cannot update the OS and some of the apps I use anymore.
I don’t agree it’s “planned obsolescence” - it’s just that technology moves on. Like the people still whining that the iPhone doesn’t have a headphone jack or there are no USB A ports on Macs anymore. FFS
Yup - that’s why my laptop is effectively a desktop for the last five years - charge lasts for about 30 seconds so it’s always plugged in for it to work.
To be fair, I had a 2012 Retina MBP that had a recognized battery issue. Apple offered a replacement program - the option of getting a free top case swap or pay $250 to swap my 2012 for the equivalent 2016 model (which I did!). I got the top of the line machine at the time for $250! Thanks Apple.
It wouldnt take a huge part of society to just not buy new tech for a few months for companies to get the hint. They run on such thin profit margins that you not buying will have more of an affect than them switching from aluminum bodies to plastic for phones
Planned obsolescence is the act of appliances/hardware being designed to not last… computer components are constantly being advanced so it was bound to happen eventually
At least these models can still be used with Linux relatively easily and give it another decade of life. The new ones with all the new hardware have nonstandard components and other serious obstacles and it is a real pain.
I feel your pain. The best models: 2008-2012 were the best upgradable units and the 2015-2017 the most stable. I hear they’re about to drop Intel support soon 🤯 I recently made the leap to M2 Pro last yr & they’re already on M4 🤦🏽♂️
I have had 2 exact same cellphones. At the 18 month mark both of them stopped charging as well then within another month not at all. Shit is infuriating
There is a lot of misattribution to planned obsolescence in this thread so I thought maybe adding a good example of TRUE planned obsolescence could be useful.
iPhone and Mac batteries (prior to the last year or two) are a great example of planned obsolescence.
In this way, Apple gets you to *maybe* come into the store, book an appointment, pay a high price— and maybe you’ll consider spending a bit more money to just get a new phone? They’re banking on you to rationalize a purchase decision.
My MacBook is no longer compatible with numbers. I cannot even wrap my head around that. All my fecking spreadsheets 😡 best of all. I didn’t realise until I’d been working on one for 2 hours. Went to save, a pop up appeared, didn’t pay enough attention and lost all my work. Raging.
dude im still on an iphone 7 tell me about it. it will come back though. somoene clever enough will come out with tactile-everything again for the modern era, starting with cars
I don't know, I had to use plenty of the blue/white Power Mac G3s when they were 5-6 years old and it was terrible, the hardware just couldn't keep up with basic applications and the last OSX release that they'd run came out when they were only 8 years old. 9 years for an Intel machine seems decent.
That mostly ended with the original iMac, the only thing you could really upgrade on the Blue and White G3 was RAM, which certainly helped, but the fastest model with a 400MHz CPU was still quite slow and the 300MHz was basically unusable by OSX 10.3. Laptops from that era aged even worse.
Software and OS upgrades are inevitable. Still, you can keep that old beast alive. I have an old Packard Bell with DOS on it that I have managed to keep running for close to 30 years. It can't use any of the new software but it does have all the old games I love
My 2012 iMacs (we have a bunch of them) are working just fine, but Adobe and Apple no longer support them. Being forced to trash them. What a sin against the Earth resources to be forced to throw them away. @timcook.bsky.social
I wanted to use a tool that needed the latest version of Xcode to build, but in order to get that I needed to upgrade to MacOS Ventura, which was not available on my 2013 MBP.
So I installed Linux instead
I've worked for high profile companies (15+ yrs) and I can say that real security is a joke. I can't tell you how many clear holes in security I've heard from others. HIPPA, PCI-DSS, etc. All rush too much and just try to slap something together. Not good when I know more than the system specialist.
The Macs aren't so bad: they let you install something else on them (Windows, Linux, etc), except they often have Macos only components soldered into them (especially WiFi cards).
It's an unfortunate fact of tech. Developers can only keep supporting so many devices and eventually they have to make a cutoff somewhere. So it's not so much planned obsolescence (though it is that to an extent), it's practicality, and the advance of tech, that creates the need for EOL cycles.
The Apple silicon was a significant improvement, I wouldn’t just chalk it up to planned obsolescence for intel-based Macs personally. IMO new devices shouldn’t be held back just to have a better back-compatibility story.
Chip architecture changed to move forward in 2020.
the ONLY reason I bought a new laptop was because I accidentally cracked my screen and it was JUST out of the repair window, otherwise I'd probably be right there with you
They are also putting programming language versions like .NET on “long term support”, and what does long term mean here? Three years. I could blink and miss three years. It still feels like it is 2016 to me. (And considering who is going to be President, I guess that makes sense.)
It is difficult for Apple to spend resources just to make sure that their loyal customers from ten years ago are still doing great at the expense of loyal customers who buy a new product every two years or so.
Sometimes Linux is the only way to keep an old Mac usable. I've literally got a 2009 Mac mini that is still useful for basic web browsing with a lightweight Linux distro.
This neglect by Apple is unspeakable …a three trillion dollar company who can’t keep their expensive technology…the stuff we bought and championed…up to date…mean and ultimately doomed I wager🤬🤮🤐
I don't think it's terribly fair to Apple to call the 2015 MacBook planned obsolescence. The new ones are a totally different architecture and an order of magnitude faster. A decade-long useful life is pretty solid as far as laptops go, plus you can swap from Mac OS to keep it going if you want.
Ima keep it a buck with you. Your 2015 MacBook Pro is not a victim of planned obsolescence. That thing is almost 10 years old lol 10 years in tech is no joke
The batteries in those phones stopped holding a charge at roughly a year and a half. Long enough to be out of warranty, but quick enough to get people to switch to the 14. Ask any repair shop.
I bought a Lenovo chromebook tablet 3 years ago thinking "kids use them in schools, so the mileage should be fine, right?" I thought this as an aspiring teacher.
The other day, one of my apps I paid for updated. My chromebook no longer supports it.
This specific example is not necessarily planned obsolescence. Software from 10 years ago might lose compatibility because the compatability needs to be actively pursued and maintained and it costs $$$ with no profit gained from it.
Planned obsolescence is when something COULD have worked longer (without any further investment from the provider) but doesn't simply to promote you buying new stuff.
Hardware and software naturally evolve and change and improve over time so it's a bad example.
An iPhone suddenly becoming slower for no apparent reason or stopping to work, or - its battery lasting less than it could have if it werr built slightly differently for the same cost --
Its partially cuz of companies, and some people around you wanting more. Bottom line is its the god-awful thing called "human desire to grow indefinitely".
My 2019 MacboomPro is being replaced next week. A couple of keys sticking and I can’t upload newest operating system because of something. 5 yrs it’s about right for me.
What Microsoft is doing to Windows 10 and all the computers running it should be illegal. If they don't want to keep providing support, fine, but they should be forced to open-source Windows 10 in that case. Too many systems rely on it.
Just imagine all the natural resources being consumed and turned into junk in a landfill every year. Then realizing their goal is to continually surpass that, forever increasing the rate of destruction.
An old Alcatel Pixi of mine from 2015 was notably slower but functional 6 years after I stopped using it. After a few months of use, I upgraded, and a year later software updates froze the phone so bad it never switched back on. On every boot, the moment it synced with the net it throttled hard!
Plenty of people are using tools from the hackintosh community, like OpenCore Legacy Patcher, to run the latest MacOS on older MBPs. It seems to work really well. Although saying that, my 2012 Retina MBP is currently running Ubuntu
My 4 year old MacBook Pro started to show signs of software incompatibility. Then the logic board died and the Apple Store said the cost to replace is almost the price of a new laptop. Make that make sense.
That exact same thing has happened to me with my 2007 and my 2012 macbooks pro. I have a 2016 one I haven't updated in ages...guess I'm lucky it's still working.
Eventually we’re just gonna stop buying the newest things, cancelling our subs and staying offline more. Not because we want to, but because we can’t sustain it. It’s a sad state the world is in, they want the money but won’t pay us to spend it.
I hate getting a new phone because it kind of feels like losing a part of myself. Files don't get transferred or little things you did get lost. Stuff seems to become less intuitive over time. A bogged down mess of a hodge podge that was never designed for long-term use.
While I agree that P.O. is bad, this isn't that. That computer is nearly 10y old. The last OS version it supports released almost 4y ago, technically outside of Apple's Promised 5 year support window for that device. This isn't P.O., it's aging hardware that's no longer a primary support target.
The way Apple does things with such frequent software releases is definitely conducive to products going out of support sooner, but given that Windows 10 is only a little over 10y old, I'm going to say that around 10y of consistent software support is pretty normal, not really Planned obsolescence.
When this happens to me I dual boot Linux until the machine physically stops working, and then just buy a new one and run that until such time it happens again, and repeat. I buy a hell of a lot less computers this way.
I agree. However, what is it that you do with it that requires any new software to be added? It's a bit like an old 1940s car. It works, it always has. Maintain it as necessary. The laws of physics that allow it to work haven't changed.
then why would you buy from apple? you don't need much tech knowledge and buy a PC for the same price of a mac and much more powerful (plus no planned obsolescence) I bet you can Google it like "Powerful pc's for the price of a mac"
This also exists in the Windows world, I own a Surface Pro (2019) from ... Microsoft … which cannot be Windows 11 compatible, and end of Win 10 support in 11 months 🤨
I have a Compaq AMD Duron laptop from 2006 running Windows XP. There is nothing wrong with it, but it's obsolete and unusable on the Internet. It's good for Space Cadet Pinball though...
I can't bring myself to throw it away...
With the transition to Apple Silicon I would expect Intel binaries to stop being compiled in the next couple of years, but for the time being you should be able to update the machine to the latest macOS using this:
My BBC Micro is still going strong. 42 years later. Actually it's in my brother's attic. He sparked it up a couple of years ago. No tape deck to load up any software anymore. Have to play Elite online instead
The video driver for my AMD A8-7600 has been abandoned for years, and has recently started to make my system hard lock while watching Netflix. The Microsoft "approved" driver is garbage, so I'm stuck using the old AMD deprecated driver.
On the other hand this is a great testament to Mac longevity. I recently upgraded from my 2014 Pro this year after 10 years of life. It still had more in it but it wasn’t keeping up with media creation.
I'm finally about to replace my 2015 MacBook Air because the battery is totally useless again after replacing it 4-5 years ago. Been ignoring software updates for at least 2 years now 😅
Idk software going out-of-date doesn't seem like planned obsolescence, as it's a direct result of advancements in technology that go beyond the limits of what used to be possible.
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Something something Technology Connections’ critique
The actual software is leages better
I’m impressed they can do it at all!
Your apps might not contact the modern day servers, the encryption your old kit runs might be rejected by new systems because it’s insecure..
Your black and white telly won’t work either.
See also Teletext.
Vim is as fast as it was 20 years ago. Life is great
Will be the same problem w/ my 2013 macbook air eventually.
Yes it is. Unless your application has assembly code in its source, which it almost certainly doesn't.
Of course you can use OpenCore to force newer versions on that device, sooo… why block updates in the first place?
Aged 18, I wrote a complete business system (stock/customer management, billing, payroll, accounting, etc) for my 2nd employer, and they're still using it today, 35 years later, without maintenance. A few quirks, rather than pay to have a y2k issue fixed, they just remove the cmos-bat
(Which is quite stable but still a compromise.)
Case in point Tim Cook @ Apple. Steve Jobs would be horrified.
PS: Jobs’ Apple updates were awesome & once year. Cook’s updates are weekly and MFing nauseating.
Coming from a yearly upgrade cycle, I made the switch 3 years ago and am proudly sporting my cracked screen iPhone 13 Pro.
I don’t agree it’s “planned obsolescence” - it’s just that technology moves on. Like the people still whining that the iPhone doesn’t have a headphone jack or there are no USB A ports on Macs anymore. FFS
If you got used to having your iPhone integrated with your Mac, KDE connect has you covered (though Apple has some features connect doesn't).
iPhone and Mac batteries (prior to the last year or two) are a great example of planned obsolescence.
It’s because they’re not user replaceable.
As of this year neither my 2016 iMac or my 2019 MacBook Air will accept OS updates.
My PC is from 2015 and it was top tier back then but it is starting to fall by the wayside now.
My 2012 iMacs (we have a bunch of them) are working just fine, but Adobe and Apple no longer support them. Being forced to trash them. What a sin against the Earth resources to be forced to throw them away. @timcook.bsky.social
Happy Holidays
So I installed Linux instead
iPads and iPhones, however: they can bugger off.
Chip architecture changed to move forward in 2020.
Being a bit of a boring nerd I have, and use a clamshell iMac from 2000 and a Commodore Amiga from 1994. Both work perfectly for productivity apps.
If you're still using obsolete macOS, there are ways to upgrade it. Due to security reasons, try to upgrade using https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
The other day, one of my apps I paid for updated. My chromebook no longer supports it.
Livid. Absolutely livid.
Hardware and software naturally evolve and change and improve over time so it's a bad example.
Is planned obsolescence
https://StopKillingGames.com
I use VScode, Chrome, GIMP, Discord and a load of command line based dev tools like git, so swapping was a breeze for me.
I can't bring myself to throw it away...
https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
Use only open source software (Firefox, LibreOffice, the Gimp etc.). Even Posgresql is more performant in Linux than OSX.
I feel the pain.
But still a crime on the planet.
It’ll only increase as they define new algorithms in their intelligence division for newer and more capable chip architecture.
Will be 5yrs max soon.