When a government tells us, within the course of one week, that we can't have new hospitals but must have new runways, you know that it is not working on our behalf, but on behalf of economic power.
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Yep. "Economy" is a byword for "Extraction of wealth". They want more and more. The problem is, it's running out. Time to go back to basics. Grow your own and don't feed them.
Because Labour Together was always a Trojan Horse? Starmer secretly joined the anti-democratic, right wing, Trilateral Commission 2017 and worked with two former heads of the CIA who said it was essential to stop Corbyn becoming PM.
I am sick to death of hearing about economic growth, like that should be the be all and end all. All governments are stuck in this arbitrary mindset and it’s killing us all.
Agreed. And 70% of flights are taken by 15% of the population. Also every infrastructure project overruns by billions.. Heathrow won’t pay for this - we will. So why not upgrade all our rail instead so that more people can benefit.
Are you still posting on X? I would have thought there would be much more of a response here. Heathrow expansion has returned like a billious Phoenix rising from the ashes of Tory hubris
Which I say without malice. Neither he nor his government are bad. But they lack confidence. They have the majority to enact real change, but they seem to be acting like they could lose it all tomorrow. So they chart the safe course. Keep the markets happy. Keep the centre-right happy.
And the govt has the power to dictate what happens regardless. It can decline to authorise runways and it can steer funds away from aviation by taxation if it sees that it's in the public interest to do so.
I agree that the government has the power but funds need to come from somewhere to pay for the hospitals and healthcare. There’s private money to make this investment and these funds will not be steered elsewhere. it’s a real option in an imperfect world.
All of the funds that the govt uses to do things are created from nothing. It's not like a household. It's like the points awarded in the premier league. The premier league does not have a limited supply of points and will not run out of them. It's a bit mind-bending 😁
Pre-1970s pounds were linked to gold. But this creates problems. In a recession the govt needs to create money to keep things working. For this reason many countries moved to fiat currency where money is just a promise to pay.
It’s the fiscal rules again - they think a third runway will not cost public purse but hospitals will !
Worth remember the Heathrow third runway was first mentioned 1946
I never expected anything more from this government, from the moment they undermined the previous leadership through to Starmers election as leader of the opposition.
They are a re-hash of Labour under Blair, but without a social conscience.
Heart conditions are caused solely by the noise generated by busy airports already( Nicky Campbell 5 live today). What is this going to do to the London health service when they are already dealing with increased respiratory diseases brought on by vehicle emissions!
I'm hoping the High Court challenge in the spring is their pivot point for planning to meet our carbon budgets... But that hope gets dimmer with each public announcement.
And the South Yorkshire Mayor is choosing to push for reopening an airport that has already failed once instead of going with the alternative proposal to use the site for new housing.
It feels a bit desperate more than anything. I think they’re trying to do a big gesture to appease the business lobby that despite raising employer NICs they are still committed to “growth”. Not sure it will appease anyone or help with growth, but they are clutching.
Are you saying that mass transport capacity is not linked to the economy? It seems counter-intuitive, given the historical connections between the two.
If you look at big expansions of European hubs and track for changes in GDP you can't find a connection. Airport expansion in London area is mainly tourist focused not business. Investment in rail is more important. Plus sustainability etc.
I'm not pro-airport at all but I'm not convinced that tourism is not a business or that they're taking an either/or approach to rail and air. Just asking questions to find out, really.
Simply, imagine you are 10
And you get £1 a week pocket money. You want more. You offer to do work at home for more money. You use your productivity to increase your income, to spend on your priorities. You still want more, you work a paper round and still work at home doing chores.
Your overall
Income is now £20. By 16 you’re doing all of the above and a Saturday job income now £50 a week.
Your income is the result of your productivity and your economic power is you investing your productivity in your increasing income to spend on what you need. If you couldn’t be bothered and just took
Pocket money you might have £10 a week, and you’d be complaining you don’t have what everyone else has and yet you need X &Y - parents say get out and earn the money and it’s yours. If you don’t increase your productivity and your economic power remains minimal you just can’t have what you want.
... And where does the money go? 🤔 Certainly not to those who actually do the work. It's enslavement by stealth. But thanks for the explanation, nonetheless.
All these issues should be determined by the people voting on specific taxes for specific purposes. The Treasury hates hypothecation, but it is one of many, many changes needed to get rid of the absolute power of the elite
They're not telling us everything, are they.... the meeting with Trump; what deal was pressed on Starmer? Build another runway and you can have our chlorinated chicken?
Money moves around between private businesses and individuals but, ultimately, new money is created by governments. Yes, banks can create money too -but the difference is that this money has to be paid back eventually.
Pensioners dying of hypothermia is borderline traditional and ironically, one of the kinder deaths George.
Last thing you want to do is to live long enough to go mental or get eaten alive by cancer.....it's hypothermia for me George. Sort of a relief considering my family's cancer history.
I’d love new hospitals, schools, free university etc - but we have to be able to afford them. Given you won’t be elected on a ‘more tax’ ticket, growing the economy seems the only way forward.
That's the problem isn't it?
People in this country have got used to low tax, low expectations for public service.
Labour are better than the Tories by a small margin.
I liked Corbyn and the Labour manifesto but if we are honest we know it would be unelectable.
I'd argue that we need to give Labour time - they inherited a mess and it'll will take more than 6 months to fix it. If they can regrow the economy then we can return to normality and good public services.
The govt has a limitless supply of money, literally. What we don't have is a limitless supply of resources such as labour, materials and energy. Tax does not create money to spend. Tax is a means to control inflation, manage inequality and to give govt the ability to steer the economy.
It's the same for all governments. They are effectively controlled by big business and in particular the fossil fuel industry. Their objective is obviously to maintain business as usual. We vote every 5 years but it's not democracy...
It does seem though, on the evidence of being alive for fifty odd years, that the point in which we can spend the money we make is always over the horizon, and the need to use the money we would spend to make more money which we promise to spend at a future date is always current.
I think you're misunderstanding what money is. Money is created by the govt, it's not a resource like concrete or oil. The govt has the power to decide how resources are allocated in the uk
Well hang on, George. Their whole election promise was that they’d push for growth, and as a result would have funds to fix the mess. It’s a little disingenuous to claim foul because the things they say will increase growth don’t fit with your hopes and expectations
But growth will be harmed by the tax on jobs (NI increase), the weakening of competition rules (monopolies invest less despite making bigger profits), the failure to tackle childhood poverty and the failure to shift the tax burden from the lowest income decile to the wealthiest. Reeves is pursuing
Growth does not create funds and the government isn't short of funds. Shockingly it can create money!. And if it didn't create money the likes of you and me wouldn't have any.
Growth does create funds via greater tax take. Quantitative easing does, too, but has its own downsides. The Go ernment certainly does think it hasn’t enough funds and has been bleating about it since it got in.
Tax does not create funds. All govt spending is created from nothing when the govt instructs the central bank to credit its account. Taxation simply removes money from circulation. The bleating is part of a pantomime in which some participants don't understand and others choose to go with the myth
...or when there's a danger of stoking inflation. But this can be countered by other things like taxation, regulation and spending on things that reduce inflation (public transport, good health care, house insulation, efficient energy generation)
Yes, but as a part of a push for growth additional runways are ineffective in even the medium term whereas investment in healthcare would have a much more immediate effect on growth.
They didn't say that their push for growth was going to be so woefully targeted.
That wasn’t the point of my response. Monbiot argued that Labour hadn’t indicated their intentions. I said they’d plugged growth as their prime policy.
Having just left hospital recently I know how important it is to invest in the people and infrastructure that supports the NHS. Runways don't feel like where money should be going.
Government money will of course be used specially with overrun of costs and when Heathrow ‘can’t find the money’ and it’s too big to fail. It’s idiotic to be expanding airports when there is a climate crisis and when we should be using trains for short haul flights.
This government have been so desperately disappointing. "If you want change, you have to vote for it", they said. We did, and they decided to become a continuity party. It's no wonder people disengage from politics and feel unrepresented.
Without new hospitals and a ring fenced research programme for #LongCovid and #ME there will be fewer people able to make use of the new runways. People are getting sicker physically and mentally and the government are playing ostrich.
We can’t have hospitals that were falsely promised by the Populist Tory government. No doubt they are needed but not enough people seem to appreciate that if you want good standard services in a post Brexit Britain it is going to require further taxation. The divorce from the EU was £27b…
Never voting labour again. The greens all the way as far as im concerned. Starmer has destroyed any credible reputation Labour had of being for the average person, caring about the environment ,investing in public services and being honest with the public.
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Entryism is a real thing.
Which I say without malice. Neither he nor his government are bad. But they lack confidence. They have the majority to enact real change, but they seem to be acting like they could lose it all tomorrow. So they chart the safe course. Keep the markets happy. Keep the centre-right happy.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/lovebombed-by-lobbyists-how-starmer-labour-became-the-party-of-big-business/
Ted Grant
Good thing there's not a climate crisis.
Worth remember the Heathrow third runway was first mentioned 1946
https://www.airporthistory.org/blue-concourse/heathrows-third-runway-plans-date-back-to-1946
They are a re-hash of Labour under Blair, but without a social conscience.
Blairite 2.0 🤥 Can't trust who they really serve
"If you want nice things we need a strong and stable economy"
Tough job though.
And you get £1 a week pocket money. You want more. You offer to do work at home for more money. You use your productivity to increase your income, to spend on your priorities. You still want more, you work a paper round and still work at home doing chores.
Your overall
Your income is the result of your productivity and your economic power is you investing your productivity in your increasing income to spend on what you need. If you couldn’t be bothered and just took
One requires state money.
The other should be paid for by private companies who run airline companies.
Last thing you want to do is to live long enough to go mental or get eaten alive by cancer.....it's hypothermia for me George. Sort of a relief considering my family's cancer history.
https://positivemoney.org/vision/
People in this country have got used to low tax, low expectations for public service.
Labour are better than the Tories by a small margin.
I liked Corbyn and the Labour manifesto but if we are honest we know it would be unelectable.
What the government spends money on was, is, and always will be a choice.
Thats generally how it works I’m afraid.
They didn't say that their push for growth was going to be so woefully targeted.