A question if anyone can answer it: if we don’t help to formulate a flu shot for next year, what do other countries do? Could pharma go ahead and use guidance without the FDA? Or would this just be, nah, fuck that, no shot here, maybe anywhere?
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Manufacturers have to comply with our needs in order to sell their vaccines in Canada. I think that most, if not all suppliers, are not Canadian. Doesn't matter though. The Canadian market is pretty steady. Manufacturers are not going to pass up their annual consumers.
I think you're right. But every year the BC government gives me the Sanofi FLUZONE vaccine. I'm sure they're not going to pass up selling millions of doses. But vaccines are yet another thing we have to stop relying on the Americans for.
If I come to Canada, (I want to move there and can’t find a way for a retired person to come for more than 6 months) can I get a flu shot if I pay for it???
What I mean is, do we sit back and wait to see if American manufacturers can get it done with the government being a shit show or do we buy from a different supplier, and having to wait until they fulfill earlier orders first.
I think ~ at least for the time being ~ we have to take matters into our own hands and not rely on the U.S. I suspect it's going to get worse before it gets better.
We all get sick and the country has many unnecessary deaths. Even one unnecessary death is too many. Now first measles death in Texas outbreak - totally preventable. RFK jr is snake oil salesman.
Immunocompromised dude here. Pfizer develops their vaccines in Germany, but as an American Company with most Senators on payroll, their vaccines fly onto our market at 400x their EU price. W/O the FDA, we might get them from EU for cheaper?
Assuming 🍊 doesn't make me an 'untermensch' by then.
You can't put medicins on US market Without FDA approval.
Medication in EU is cheaper because they dictate the price and regulate patents etc (allow copycat cheaper in some cases). They control their own legislation on medicine. It is not linked to cost of production.
You can't market it as -medicine- without FDA approval. I wonder if you could market it as an injectable/inhalable tonic that boosts your immune system*
* Statements not supported by the FDA, use at your own risk
Like they do for "health supplements". Not covered by insurance then though.
I heard the flu mist would be available next season (before the 🍊💩 took a wrecking ball to CDC, et all), was really hoping to get that. And they were planning to mail them out!😢😡
I'm told they can use WHO recommendations, which the US usually contributes to but probably won't this year because we're with stupid. I'm also told that Canada usually imports their vaccines from us.
Globally there are four regulatory labs--one of them the U.S. So now there are only three working together, and I wouldn't be shocked if some countries start restricting travel from the U.S. in a few months time.
Vaccination Assistance Act purchases more than half of vaccines in the U.S. and subsidizes the production and distribution so if they can’t count on that subsidy or guidance they may just not fucking make it or at least not nearly enough of it.
I assumed the FDA(or maybe the CDC?) would have to okay the next years vaccine in order for it to legally be given in the USA. And I would worry the manufacturers might be a lot less willing to risk making a bunch for the USA market with that uncertainty in play.
This is the strain selection for inclusion in the vaccine, based on data and best guesses with what is currently in circulation. To a certain point, it has no bearing on approval.
Contrary to American belief we have our own companies making vaxinations and will be just fine without American help we don't want, need, and never asked for. But hey enjoy flu season and good luck with the measles.
I'm just assuming rich people will be fine cause they'll get the vaccines they need by paying to get them overseas an all of us normal people will be screwed
so pretty much the norm with this current administration
I’m quite sure many other countries are more than capable of creating a flu vaccine… Sharing it probably depends on who America pisses off between now & then…
As a senior Canadian I get my free flu & covid shots in October and I sympathize greatly with you.
Scene: makes sure everyone has travel papers, loads family in car, drives over boarder to Canada for immunizations. Drive home and have an influenza free winter.
This may be dated info, but iirc producing the flu vaccine isn't particularly profitable, so the fact that the government requires production is (was?) the thing keeping it being made...sooooo
Other countries and pharma have enormous incentives to develop this fall's vaccine for themselves, even if the US government does not participate in development or deployment
Bigger question: could pharma then supply the US with that vaccine? Or would HHS block it?
Let me just say (as an ER doc who gets the flu shot every year and is very well protected by it despite flu patients coughing all over me) without the flu shot - we’d be screwed (the only year I’d didn’t get it I got the flu and got my whole family sick)
Chuck, it might be reassuring to know that, besides the US, Canada, and Australia, no other country recommends flu shots for healthy children over the age of 5 and adults who are not elderly. According to the WHO, you're OK. I assume other countries will make shots you could ostensibly use.
370,000 people were hospitalized and 16k dead as of the beginning of February. No, it is not reassuring, as someone with a respiratory condition, to be reminded that y'all consider people like me to be "acceptable losses". Wtf.
And this is WITH the vaccine. I can't believe people are seriously suggesting we just go without a flu vaccine in one of the most deadly flu seasons in recent history.
Take it up with the World Health Organization. They're the ones not making the recommendation.
And your numbers are mathematical projections. That's how the CDC determines flu deaths, not through serology or anything else. We don't actually accurately know how many ppl die from flu every year.
In its position paper, WHO says that "Data from studies in high- and middle-income settings show that the greatest impact on community transmission is achieved by vaccination of children, particularly those of school age." They state that "The Immunization Agenda 2030 emphasizes that all people ...
"...including the elderly and the vulnerable, benefit from
recommended immunizations, including seasonal influenza vaccines, throughout the life-course, and that those
immunizations should be effectively integrated with
other essential health services." Further, they say that "WHO recommends that...
"... all countries should consider implementing seasonal influenza immunization programmes," but that where needed, programmes can be leveraged to focus on high-risk groups: health workers, etc. "Depending on national disease goals, capacity and resources, epidemiology, national policies and...
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They keep wanting to send everything back to the states…
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory-overview/public-health-threats/pandemic-influenza/vaccines-pandemic-influenza
If someone told RJK jr. that we regularly consume sodium chloride 🧂, would he try to ban it too?
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/vaccines-immunization/national-advisory-committee-immunization-statement-seasonal-influenza-vaccine-2024-2025.html#a2
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2024/05/30/producing-more-vaccines-canada-and-creating-more-jobs
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health.html
What I mean is, do we sit back and wait to see if American manufacturers can get it done with the government being a shit show or do we buy from a different supplier, and having to wait until they fulfill earlier orders first.
Everything US does is going to bleed north.
I think ~ at least for the time being ~ we have to take matters into our own hands and not rely on the U.S. I suspect it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Triggers my anxiety
WTF 😬
Assuming 🍊 doesn't make me an 'untermensch' by then.
Medication in EU is cheaper because they dictate the price and regulate patents etc (allow copycat cheaper in some cases). They control their own legislation on medicine. It is not linked to cost of production.
* Statements not supported by the FDA, use at your own risk
Like they do for "health supplements". Not covered by insurance then though.
Then Americans would go on the re-established Silk Road site to get it on the dark net with untraceable cryptocurrencies.
Seriously, the likely thought is 'everyone else does the same, why do we need to"...
so pretty much the norm with this current administration
As a senior Canadian I get my free flu & covid shots in October and I sympathize greatly with you.
Perhaps your President has a plan?
Bigger question: could pharma then supply the US with that vaccine? Or would HHS block it?
And your numbers are mathematical projections. That's how the CDC determines flu deaths, not through serology or anything else. We don't actually accurately know how many ppl die from flu every year.
recommended immunizations, including seasonal influenza vaccines, throughout the life-course, and that those
immunizations should be effectively integrated with
other essential health services." Further, they say that "WHO recommends that...
Recommendations incl pragmatic considerations wrt to resources, etc. But WHO makes clear that the more who are vaccinated, the better: https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/354264/WER9719-eng-fre.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y