Shapiro: Violence can never be used to try to prove some ideological point. That is not what we do in a civilized society. That is not how you make progress in this country. The suspect who shot that CEO is a coward, not a hero.
Comments
Log in with your Bluesky account to leave a comment
So what *do* we do in a civilized society to stop corporations from preying on people? Because I have yet to see you do anything to create “progress” on that front, Josh.
Lot of violence in the 60’s and 70’s, students gunned down at Ohio State by our national guard. We have a corrupt president who promotes violence, don’t have the answers but something terribly wrong in America.
Make progress? Okay what have you done Ben to solve this. Violence might not be right but now you're listening and talking. He is a hero to all those who have suffered or died because of insurance companies who have no voices anymore.
There is a mathematical proof that shows infinities are not necessarily the same size. Analogously, an excellent and similar argument could be made about the evilness of individual human beings, as this situation is a case in point.
It's amusing that Shapiro calls the USA civilized when mass death surrounds us everyday and not just in terms of lack of healthcare. Nobody is falling for these meaningless platitudes anymore.
Civilized when for 20 years we’ve allowed children to be slaughtered in classrooms, no we are not civilized,and innocent people executed, we are a pathetic people who just elected a criminal!
“We don’t fix things with violence in a civilized society” meanwhile America is the biggest perpetrator of collapsed governments and impoverished nations globally. Tell me more about how it’s really no fun when the rabbit has the gun.
Just what an elite with everything to lose in a revolution would say..
Could it be that they have some alternative motive to be preaching at us. Like maybe they have a legitimate fear of us rising up against their CEOs and billionaires, to remind them of their mortality and mistakes?
What he did is wrong, but we are coming to an inflection point. Why should we care for anyone who does not care for us? What is morality if it's only upheld when it's convenient? I am tired of the Right clutching their pearls when a billionaire is wounded, but dismiss the pain of the middle class.
What so many leaders and pundits get wrong about this moment is it didn't happen in a vacuum. The perpetrator didn't just decide to kill a random person on the street, dispassionatrly and arbitrarily. You don't question that the same way you question a billionaire unalived.
Thank you! That is important to state. Trumpian downplaying & thus normalizing political violence & threats, created a permissive environment where political violence is not a taboo anymore but something that happens casually. That is not a healthy environment for civil discourse.
When our legal & justice system breaks down, people start taking justice into their own hands. People have lost faith in the system. Their patience ended after a criminal got elected to install other criminals to rule over us. Do you honestly think people will not decide to impose justice themselves
One of the thing Luigi posted on his social media was an x-ray of someone's back that had some sort of surgical procedure. I am guessing this hit was very personal involving getting screwed by UHC.
Odd then that guns and the right to have them are central to the psyche of the US.
From the very beginning, the US is fundamentally based on using violence/guns to prove an ideological point.
Why can’t we say both are true? We don’t fix things with violence in a civilized society but our healthcare system is also uncivilized. How many go fund me donations have we made to stave off bankruptcy for friends & family due to healthcare bills or insurance denials?
To validate Gov Shapiro's point this would be the right time to pass legislation curtailing the profits of med insurers and provide an independent body without P&L requirements to review claim requests. Otherwise it's just bullsh!t
I don't like how the suits give themselves obscene salaries and put the screws to staff and patients. But that does not justify violence. Unfortunately, there are those who do think it is acceptable.
It’s not just the obscene salaries. It’s the fact that insurance companies exist for the enrichment of their shareholders and not for the protection of their policyholders.
I see the difference. But the LAW says here is that he was innocent. They literally argued that those three people those guys killed weren’t innocent. They made excuses that the men were defending themselves against somebody who was fighting back. Luigi sounds like he was a privileged POS.
All true, but the law only works if those guilty are brought to justice and that requires a system where people like Thompson can even be held accountable. That system does not exist in America, so what purpose does the "law" hold if it is selective in who it applies to?
Shapiro is right and not enough folks have spoken up about the fact that if we resort to violence against the people that we detest then what's to stop the people we detest to resorting to violence against us?
So, shoot him down in cold blood, right? Sorry, but if that were legal then we descend into chaos and barbarity. Is that what you’re willing to accept?
This isn’t what I said at all.I said denying people medical procedures needed to live is violence also. They died. Murder is wrong. Insurance CEOs need to be held accountable for the murders they have committed also. Class wars are much more violent that culture wars. See also: The French Revolution
The people we are politically aligned against HAVE ALREADY resorted to violence (see January 6, Rittenhouse, any number of “bad cops”). Nothing “our side” can do will CAUSE them to react violently. They are already violent.
To be clear, I have been a resister since November 8, 2016, which also happened to be my birthday. I’m not saying to turn the other cheek, but when defending our democracy is at stake then all acts come into play. I just don’t dig shooting unarmed people in cold blood. Full-Stop!
Which is not to say that I condone this murder or any murder. I’m just saying to pretend that there is a causal relationship is plainly false. We likewise can’t protect ourselves from their violence by capitulating to their expectations. They are bad actors, period, and will continue to be.
Thank you for saying it.
I expressed as much and got flamed for it.
I'm thinking of their response, "okay... tell me you just got off the Xitter, without telling me you just got off the Xitter!"
(The Brazilian pronunciation of "x" is "sh" so, that's what I call it)
😉
I would love it, truly love it, if there were other avenues that can get us where we need to go. There is so much corruption now though, that 'the process' no longer works.
I want to see too, as details come out, what the actual motive was. If in fact United denied a claim to someone near and dear
Like I said, it would be wonderful if we had courts and judges that weren't corrupt, a congress that isn't bought, and CEOs like this one writing our laws. How do you escape that?
Sadly, as someone who had to punch a couple of bullies in the face to get any peace...
To the shooter, just to make even more money, could this not be considered him defending the person who was denied?
We need a better system, and we needed it 30 years ago. If we were truly civilized, this right here would bring about changes, but I fear they will double down again.
So, some MAGA drone thinks President Biden is responsible for our country being overrun by brown people and trans folks and thinks its okay to pop him to save America. How does that work?
Did he just call US civilized? The nerve..
That, & are you trying to tell US that our guy dropped the wrong backpack in CP? None of this makes any sense.
Sometimes, just sometimes... Violence Is the answer that is required. When the enemy refuses to follow the rule of law, has no regard for human life other than their own, and lacks basic human empathy... Then it is necessary.
Both parties have failed. Single-payer is the only thing that makes sense, so... As JFK said, if you make political change impossible, you make violent change inevitable.
#SinglePayer #UnitedHealth
I am a pacifist and will join peaceful protests, but I also appreciate the bolder revolutionaries who are willing to fight fire with fire. Until the pen once again becomes mightier than the sword, this is the America we live in. I accept it and so should our representatives.
Hence the risk. The people that elected these people are exactly the people that hate the asshats they elected. I can’t imagine they’ll tolerate John Galt for very long.
Well, it sure does appear that if another attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power were to occur again, it would be perfectly acceptable! No one should be jailed... if they are, they should be pardoned. Because we have no laws governing attacks on the capital anymore!
The election in America a sign of how many Americans have been radicalized against democracy and for fascism under the umbrella of MAGA. Fascinating, as an outsider, hoping my government 🇨🇦 and my people have "balls" to stand up to Trump. Compliance not acceptable. Love 🇲🇽. and Jack Hopkins.
My thoughts in light of the UnitedHealth situation.
-Luigi M. radicalized against what he sees as an injustice.
A suicide bomber type per his notes.
-Are MAGA radicalized to defend Trump and make personal sacrifices......
- Is Penny a radical against homelessnes or a rebel against a corrupt system?
- I wish Americans would make up their minds.
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? THE WORLD IS WONDERING?
Somehow I'm banking on today the mass virtue signaling will happen with SM influencers who can AFFORD the medical insurance, and those nice echo chamber affordable lives.
Whether or not we accept or condone it matters very little. It’s just human nature. When the gap between the rich & poor becomes too great, resentment of the wealthy will eventually outweigh the ability of the wealthy to protect themselves from violence. The poor always outnumber the rich.
As long as we have a President of the United States who is financially corrupt and a convicted felon and rapist, there can be no semblance of justice in this country.
Two wrongs can never make a right. And by killing the CEO there is no accountability, there will never be a trial and he will never need to answer for his evils. Hannah Arendt said "Many good things have happened despite violence, but never because of it". "Violence never built anything"
I'm against violence and I support the idea of a proper justice system. Admittedly, not at the moment, but maybe one day US will get its head out of it's arse. But even that remote possibility is gone with the death of the chief perpetrator.
Proper justice system? Are you serious? If there were such a system there wouldn’t be murderers running healthcare insurance company. So what of the other CEO’s that are currently paid multi-millions to deny life saving claims? I think you need to reevaluate.
a. I'm in UK b. I grew up in Germany learning all about the Holocaust so c. I have seen in history that proper justice systems arise out of worse than the US is currently.
Once again, the Dems letting us down with the let’s all play nice mentality. Done and no more. Since our Party is not helping us, We, the People, are taking care of ourselves.
He's a talker. Reminds me of Obama, but without the substance. Looking back, he was on the Daily Show two days before the election, and it was almost as of he was trying to convince himself Dems were going to win. He didn't believe then, in that moment, and it was very telling.
This is a slippery slope. Is he supposed to condone killing people? Where does that end? I think everyone understand that healthcare sucks, but going vigilante on everyone isn't the answer. Next we go after the shareholders?
He should have addressed the issues of healthcare companies and why people are upset. He glossed over the root of the problem. This is part of why we lost the election. We are entering a period of revolutions. Look at history, American, French, Haitian Revolutions happened. We are repeating
The suspect who shot that CEO. Everyone stating the suspect is guilty. So why all the talk about America being a country of laws. The suspect has not been found guilty in court. The person who HAS been found guilty is not going to be sentenced, he is going to the WH. Y'all are inconsistent.
A country founded on revolution says what?
Violence is the symptom of something that needs to be addressed. A positive reaction to violence is a symptom of continuing to ignore the signs.
Helpless people do helpless things. Don’t agree with it but we also shouldn’t have CEOs killing thousands of people and bankrupting millions all to add to their bank account. More importantly, we just need socialized healthcare.
And he says that while the US is bombing positions in Syria, as just the most recent example of it using violence to prove some ideological point. Which it does frequently.
What unmitigated hypocrisy.
Murder is wrong. I don't consider this guy (if it is this guy) a hero. But he's no coward.
Well I am unsure Shapiro will be re-elected. State isn’t doing much to curb the costs of healthcare and emotional trauma of being denied lifesaving care that should be covered. We need a different approach to healthcare than what we have. Because no one is getting good care.
Wrong as hell. My man is a hero who killed a mass murderer. If he had used a gun instead of a computer, there wouldn't be a conversation. All these people that are saying this shit are only worried about themselves and their wealthy benefactors. They should be watching their backs I suspect
The government can kill a terrorist without a trial. A POTUS can be a convicted,rapist felon.
A CEO can profit off the deaths of thousands of Americans. The NYPD offered a 10k reward for a CEO murder, but offered nothing for a 17 yr old child stabbed to death. We don’t need to be told how to feel.
Since he’s white, he’s seen as a hero & mental illness will come into his defense. If he were a POC, MAGA would have been vocal including blaming the Dems for high rise in crime. Everyone is emboldened and that part is color blind.
Yes, violance is never okay. But America has NO system of justice or laws that prohibits insurance corporations and big ( Greedy and corrupt )American corporations non stop f'n Americans over. FIX THAT first!!!!
I ❤️ Shapiro and I do think he’s saying the responsible thing here. It would just be nice if he also said what we should do when someone is demanding money for our lives rather than only what we shouldn’t do.
I agree the shooter should face his punishment for this crime. But I think Shapiro said, “violence is not the answer for a policy issue.,” is way too cavalier for me. How many people have died or suffered needlessly due to “policy issues” that the common man cannot seriously contest?
I’ve been appalled by public support for the killer. But there’s no denying it revealed widespread dissatisfaction with the nation’s insurance-based health care system. This moment has a me too vibe.
Thanks Acyn. I don't know enough about the shooter, not even sure they arrested the right guy. The first 2 pictures showed discrepancies and the following ones possibly altered.(different coats and backpacks) I agree that violence isn't a good solution generally but USA is no longer civilized, imho.
I haven't read this kids manifesto and don't know his viewpoint...but a lot of people in this country that have lived or feared their medical care being denied...look at this killing as payback. The fist of the little people in the overlords face.
That is for sure, and Shapiro isn't getting it. Isn't getting that little people getting killed by claim denials of life saving care is killing nonetheless. Isn't getting little people identifying with someone doing some thing apparently about it. And, Shapiro is a smart guy. Makes you wonder.
Mass corporate boycotts, general strikes, mutual aid societies, no car but bike + public transportation, book clubs, art, environmental activism, NO CRYPTO
The American Revolution and the Civil War would like a word. For thousands of Americans who have gone bankrupt or lost their lives due to denial of claims, maybe this isn't so different. I'm not sure Shapiro's statement about ideological differences works.
Shapiro seems to be a tad naive about the complexity of human nature. Whether he condones it or not, when the gap between the rich & poor is too wide, resentment of the rich will eventually outweigh their ability to protect themselves from violence. The poor always outnumber the rich, after all…
He's not naive. Healthcare -- hospitals, pharma, and insurance -- is the largest industry in both Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. His political ambitions are toast if he's not on their payroll.
Is naivety lies not in his impressions of the for-profit healthcare system; it lies in his belief that his condemnation of the killer’s act will have a beneficial impact. Clearly, he has not reflected in a meaningful way on the public’s reaction to the crime.
address the inequity caused by the for-profit healthcare system. Nonetheless, the public sentiment regarding the murder of UHC CEO, should have made it clear to him that, whatever he as done, it wasn’t enough.
It's too bad this jowl quivering umbrage is so rarely directed at CEOs who, by denying the very coverage people are paying for, routinely condemn their customers to torment and death, just to pocket a few more shekels. If it had been, maybe Luigi wouldn't have felt driven to pick up a gun.
Civilized, we have the highest rates in gun violence, we are standing at the sideline watching an entire country be flattened. Citizens can’t afford food and healthcare and “we” are living in the richest country in the world.
Agreed but it doesn't mean we have to give a shit
That a soulless fuck who was responsible for more deaths than most dictators has a accident or something terrible happened to, u don't care about us we stopped giving a fuck about you
I’m done with the “play nice” Shapiros of the Dem party. In case you haven’t noticed, we don’t live in a “civilized” society. We live in a country where there are more guns than people. We elected a convicted rapist, serial adulterer, and Nazi sympathizer as POTUS. It’s simply rich vs poor.
I'm sure they expect people just to lay down and take it until we resemble a red white and blue North Korea. I was actually worried Americans were going to end up that way. Until now.
We have never broken free from oppressors without it. It's a damn shame- but it is what it is. They push until the people have no choice but to rise up. It's historical.
If there are layers of blame- start with Media, who treated it like 'business as usual' and politicians, who empowered them.
In a civilized society, a convicted criminal would not be allowed to run for president, much less be sworn in as one. Thanks to the corrupt Supreme Court, we live in a criminally led society.
The First Amendment gives us a right to voice our appreciation of the criminal of our choosing.
I disagree. The system is so broken, that this is the only way for people to be heard and wrongs to be righted. We are not civilized, we are oppressed.
the first thing UHC claimants have to deal w/is an AI reviewer that apparently rejects a majority of claims filed - oh, i'm sure it's purely an accident and nothing to do with UHC trying to wear people down in hope they'll just give up. just the scummiest behavior imaginable. ugh.
Just nationalize them. Private insurance is just a scam. They all are. How many pay car insurance and never make a claim? We should at least be getting a portion of the annual premium back if we don't make a claim beyond preventative care (health ins) or a claim at all (for home and auto).
Not only should they be non-profits, they should cap exec compensation with that. Plenty of charities are basically fronts for stupid high executive pay.
You're so right & he isn't doing shit.
None of them have done shit, nor will they do shit - President, Congress, DOJ
It's 100% ok to kill us for $$$ - Shapiro wants to say "we live in a civilized society"
Fuck that BS, no we don't
THEY live in a "civilized society".
We are cannon fodder for the rich
I do, almost every workers right we have is due to people kicking the door down and threatening to brake there employers legs if they dont get fair treatment >_>
Apparently Shapiro never experienced the feeling of frustration or futility watching a loved one die for lack of treatment or the consequences of bankruptcy resulting from trying to save their life - or his own.
This is a conundrum for Dem politicians. We don't want to live in a world of vigilante justice, and Dem leaders can't condone it, or they will be attacked by the right. However, they then continue to look feckless to the citizenry. Courage lies in their ability to shift the conversation to Why.
That takes an educated electorate. No one asks the 'why', even politicians, and just go for the result. The GOP don't like it because it forces them to admit their junk ideals and beliefs from behind the Cross. Dems don't like it bc it means they actually have to fight for change.
A man kills another man with a gun, and they call it murder. A man kills a thousand people and bankrupts thousands more with an email and the stroke of a pen, they call it “cost of doing business.” Make it make sense.
Wrong, when the system is purposely rigged against the little guy by a super wealthy minute fraction of the population who control everything, all bets are off jackass.
Because of politicians willing to sell the majority of us out for a buck & put these sadistic little men & women in charge of making decisions on our lives & milking us dry in the process...
In this "civilized" society, people die every day because they can’t afford healthcare. I'm not endorsing violence, but let's be honest about what "civilized" really means.
But Shapiro is exactly THAT kind of Democrat. That's why all the corporate media was rooting so hard for him to be Kamala's VP. Same school as the Clintons and all the establishment shills in the DNC
Democrats are spineless. They sit on their big donor money and do corporate bidding. They are not progressive, they are not liberal, we need to vote out the elite Democrats. We need more progressives.
He’s just saying we are not barbarians. He’s right. Retaliation will not change anything no matter how people spin it. No systemic change ever came from going on a revenge killing spree.
just loved it! his condescending tone just moved me immensely 🙄i remembered reading that kamala didn’t pick him bcuz of his style and not coming across as a team person. sounds like she knows a bossy one when she sees one.
Civil discords start at the top. That's what people have been screaming for almost 10 years. So no one in office should let that even come out of there mouth.
He’s insane. Violence towards the working class and poor is standard practice. These “leaders” won’t even address the actual issue now. They don’t care about anything but keeping us in line and scared. Fuck them all.
Comments
And fully supports Israel killing children and commit war crimes
Liberals wonder why they are losing the easiest elections in history lol
voted for a fucking criminal .
This country is dumb .
Then you're doing God's work.
Could it be that they have some alternative motive to be preaching at us. Like maybe they have a legitimate fear of us rising up against their CEOs and billionaires, to remind them of their mortality and mistakes?
Are all the Jan 6 insurrectionists going to be pardoned soon?
What so many leaders and pundits get wrong about this moment is it didn't happen in a vacuum. The perpetrator didn't just decide to kill a random person on the street, dispassionatrly and arbitrarily. You don't question that the same way you question a billionaire unalived.
And would prefer you didn't rock the boat too vigorously.
I keep believing I’m going to wake up and it’s Election Day and this was all a joke.
#January6 #NeverForget
From the very beginning, the US is fundamentally based on using violence/guns to prove an ideological point.
Killing IS wrong.
But making a statement when all other avenues result in a dead end isn't wrong either.
These are mutually exclusive.
If the Bible teaches us morality is an absolute, then the Bible is wrong because morality is convenient in America today and little else.
Cut the insurance companies off totally
Likely the overriding description of him would be “in pain.”
I expressed as much and got flamed for it.
I'm thinking of their response, "okay... tell me you just got off the Xitter, without telling me you just got off the Xitter!"
(The Brazilian pronunciation of "x" is "sh" so, that's what I call it)
😉
I want to see too, as details come out, what the actual motive was. If in fact United denied a claim to someone near and dear
Sadly, as someone who had to punch a couple of bullies in the face to get any peace...
We need a better system, and we needed it 30 years ago. If we were truly civilized, this right here would bring about changes, but I fear they will double down again.
That, & are you trying to tell US that our guy dropped the wrong backpack in CP? None of this makes any sense.
Civility is when you do bad things, the "others" are the savages, is what i'm understanding here
#SinglePayer #UnitedHealth
Like they are willing to just not even acknowledge the faults because they have to always be right
But no this is a gray area which can be stretched if it continues not to be addressed
We have a big racket in healthcare ..I know about it.. not only we pay way more than Canada in admin , we ALSO have this other racket https://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/content/dam/UHG/PDF/About/unh-political-contributions-semiannual-report-2024.pdf Therefore, health ins has no competent adult supervision .
Including Putin vs Zelenski.
The United Health villain.
Radical vs Rebel.... Amazing movie?
-Luigi M. radicalized against what he sees as an injustice.
A suicide bomber type per his notes.
-Are MAGA radicalized to defend Trump and make personal sacrifices......
- I wish Americans would make up their minds.
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? THE WORLD IS WONDERING?
https://bsky.app/profile/jamesfox718.bsky.social/post/3lcx3fwe5w22e
The US not like the UK or Germany.
You never lived up to the potential Mr.Rogers saw in you
To Shapiro, yes this was intentional, to the poster, not towards you
Violence is the symptom of something that needs to be addressed. A positive reaction to violence is a symptom of continuing to ignore the signs.
And world history shows Uncle Sam has zero problem using violence to achieve its aims.
Sounds like rules for thee.
What unmitigated hypocrisy.
Murder is wrong. I don't consider this guy (if it is this guy) a hero. But he's no coward.
A CEO can profit off the deaths of thousands of Americans. The NYPD offered a 10k reward for a CEO murder, but offered nothing for a 17 yr old child stabbed to death. We don’t need to be told how to feel.
A lot of these require government assistance.
He may have been working to…
That a soulless fuck who was responsible for more deaths than most dictators has a accident or something terrible happened to, u don't care about us we stopped giving a fuck about you
If there are layers of blame- start with Media, who treated it like 'business as usual' and politicians, who empowered them.
The First Amendment gives us a right to voice our appreciation of the criminal of our choosing.
Because his point that people are upset about the industry minimizes the 60k+ who die every year because of insurance denials.
None of them have done shit, nor will they do shit - President, Congress, DOJ
It's 100% ok to kill us for $$$ - Shapiro wants to say "we live in a civilized society"
Fuck that BS, no we don't
THEY live in a "civilized society".
We are cannon fodder for the rich
people forgot
https://youtu.be/mj8KdXQn3ZY?si=0d91yM5S2GUtnx2q
It was Nixon who fully opened the door for this crap in 1972 with HMOs.
Because of politicians willing to sell the majority of us out for a buck & put these sadistic little men & women in charge of making decisions on our lives & milking us dry in the process...
He is a hero.
Shapiro needs to get over himself.
Notice he didn't seem to address the actual root of the problem - just gaslighted.
Dems are gonna dim.
So, there's that.
Gotta read the fine print.