There should be a wealth cap, no single individual should own more than a billion, excess wealth should be pumped directly into social services. If monopolies are illegal, billionaires should be too.
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They are creating scarcity. We have enough of everything we need on this Earth, but we working class people have to struggle to house and feed our families while the rich often don’t have to work a day in their lives.
Whenever we’re confused about whether people should be able to hoard that many resources, we just need to imagine being in The Walking Dead. What kind of society would we set up after the zombie apocalypse? Surely not this billionaire/peasant bullshit. See also: Watership Down.
No problem with billionaires. Some like Gates, Buffett, et al, give away most of their money without being asked or prodded.They’re humanitarians.Thoughtful decent ppl who want to make the world a better place.The problem is evil, greedy narcissists like Trump, musk etc.They are without humanity!
They do not have much in their wallet. It's all shares and assets. Twitter/X lost its worth. Musk might have some digits on his account. He cannot afford decent clothing.
Wealth tax is too hard to measure (what is the unrealized gain or fair market value of a billionaire's real estate/stock/artwork/etc). Just go back to the income tax rates we once had with 90% top rate - and close the loopholes. And fund the IRS to enforce the regs!
If we could just get them to pay taxes at the same rate that fast food workers, waiters, secretaries, carpenters, plumbers etc do that would go a long ways toward fairness also. But, The tax code was written for the 1%ers, and corporations not for people who work for others.
I agree but I think a wealth cap is draconian. I think a continuous ramping tax formula is the way to go. Then we can just vote to change the scaling constant and minimum threshold as needed. Simpler means more clarity and easier enforcement.
This might work if everyone's wealth was made up of dollars sitting in a bank where we could determine how wealthy they are. It gets trickier when their wealth is in stocks, property, art, baseball cards, a factory, goodwill or other things that change value frequently with subjective valuations.
I'm thinking as I type. This tax would be a yearly wealth tax, not income(i think we should replace income tax). Assets would need to be appraised yearly and the total liquid+illiquid asset value would then be applied to the tax formula. Good point
There may be a way to do it, but it'll be complicated. What if your stock is worth $1B, but sinks to zero next year? Does the gov refund you what you paid the year b4? Do you get your art appraised? What about your baseball card collection? People hide income now. They'll really hide wealth.
I don't disagree. I occasionally muse about how it could be done and it makes my head hurt. We do tax property at the local level, but wealth exists in so many forms. OTOH, I'm sure instituting the income tax was quite complicated when it came into being.
If you cut off funding, then only the ultra wealthy could start a company. Regular people with a good idea would have trouble going to a bank and getting enough $ to start an Apple or a Rivian. Now, I guess you could go to the Saudis or some rich person, but then they essentially have stock.
I agree that those in charge of a company should be able to be held liable, but I also think that people should be able to invest in a company. We just need to change the laws to make those in decision making positions in a company liable for those decisions.
Also investigate and audit bank accounts of every member of Congress. I don't know who to trust, seeing they're all almost worth hundreds of millions from a government salary.
There is a grain of truth to this, but also a lot of exaggeration. We definitely need some serious regulation on their enrichment, in any case! The problem is how to go about it, since they are nominally the lawmakers.
I listened to Bernie mention how so many politicians and their friends sit on boards of superpact and lobbyists making millions too. How's that legal? 😲
Billionaires are fine and I give them credit for becoming billionaires. Tax them at the highest rate and they will still have plenty of money. Problem here folks is that the billionaires “run the show” here in the USA. I doubt they would agree to increase their own tax burden
Billionaires are not self made. They all have inherited some of their wealth and by teaming up with the Heritage Foundation in 1980 they managed to end the economic system that allowed more prosperity for more Americans and concentrated wealth to a few people.
It is impossible to become a billionaire without exploiting resources and people (which is obv a resource). It is immoral to exploit resources in a fixed resource system for personal gain.
yes, but the line ought to be drawn well below a billion. The line should separate comfort from exploitation: $20 million in assets, or $500K per year.
Nobody has a billion in the bank. They're worth that much because they own stock that is valued at that amount. But the value of stock is based on predictions and beliefs about potential revenue from owning that stock.
My point is that for billionaires to exist we have to believe in them.
How can we take any view that allows a few to hoard resources on a scale that starves billions? The whole economic system is being reimagined now… what will it become?
I rather just have increasingly higher tax brackets. Cutting off people’s wealth is bad for the economy as there would be no incentive to grow which means fewer jobs and no incentive to increase worker pay to attract better workers as you don't care about growing your business
In the U.S. they only to get rid of the ridiculous loophole in investment gains and stop the of paying CEOs in stock so that their reported income is below poverty and their capital gains on the shares they sell monthly is only taxed at 8 percent with nothing going to SS or the state.
Also, I believe it was Ben and Jerry's that used a pay model which maintained a percentage difference between the CEOs and the janitor... do when the CEO's wages up, so did the janitors and everyone respectively in between! Imagine that!
I disagree on this one,(I am far far from being a millionaire much less a billionaire) I really don’t care how much people make… As long as they pay their share of taxes! if billionaires paid taxes like we do, they would never be a deficit!
No, it wouldn't. It would actually help protect startups from vulture capitalists because there would be competition for the funding and it wouldn't be coming from one person.
Might as well disband the USA arm forces. All they protect is the wealth and influence of the ones at the very top. The entire system is designed that way.
How about this. There's a lowest wage in any organization, right? Let's put that at $1500/month. Nobody in the org gets paid more than 15 times that. $22,500/month should be enough for a CEO. Don't like it? Raise the lower incomes.
And from that moment, he/she is no longer allowed to work untill all the money is spend. giving place to the next in line to make a billion if he/she can. And it is not allowed to replace it with family members.
Wouldn't work. They'll just find some new way to hide/launder their assets.
What we really need to do is peg the number of shares in any publicly traded company to the number of employees that company actually has. The exact number of shares a person can own is limited to exactly ONE.
Most of the "wealth" of billionaires is just their ability to borrow money against the value of shares they own in a successful company. If they want to borrow against the full value OF the company, then ALL of the shareholders get a piece of the loan.
No single person should have more than 10 million, much less a billion. That's enough. It's enough to retire on at any age. If you want to live like Louis XIV we will remind you what happened to Louis XVI.
I don't rly agree with this, but billionaires and millionaires should NOT be able to donate millions of $ to political candidates. There should be an absolute minimum that any one person can donate, and be a true separation from monies like churches have; but have it enforceable- no wishy washy crap
No billionaires. Not a single one. No more working tax loopholes. No more investing so they don't have to pay taxes. No one is a real billionaire unless they are taxed on that money as income.
FDR capitalism with emphasis on wealthy paying fair share of taxes and trust-busting worked, but since the Powell Memorandum, the capitalists have clawed their way back to gross levels of income inequality but have even surpassed the previous standards from the Roaring '20s.
Monopolies? Illegal? Since when? The United States has taken limp-wristed action against monopolies one notable time, during the days of T. Roosevelt and Taft, when it broke up Standard Oil, and has never appreciably done anything to combat them since.
In the UK the Tories set a cap of £20k or £26k for people on benefits. Why didn’t they put a tax floor on the same amounts?
Earn £20k as a single person, anything over 10 %, +40 k 20% etc, that would include capital gains, inheritance, shares, bonus, mortgage relief etc
This is not Inaccurate..however, they find ways around the laws now...it wouldn't change, they would just find more creative and sneaky ways to get around whatever they don't like...🤷♀️😎👍
It's not though. Billionaires don't have income. Or even capital gains. They leverage their stock assets to borrow money. A completely different system of taxation must be invented to close this loophole.
It's far from easy. Most countries that have tried wealth taxes have failed and given up. Even if you can value assets, which is not always, easy, how do you, raise funds for tax. Sell assets? To whom?
Remember only drug lords and arms dealers have billions in cash. Most rich people are wealthy because they own stock, real estate, or other assets. They are not hoarding money.
My cap would be $500 million but that's arbitrary. The cap should be the amount at which a person could no longer meaningfully improve their standard of living and is now influencing politics. Money isn't free speech. Overturn Citizens United.
I'd say about ⅒ of that.
I mean, how much money & stuff does one person need.
Also, I'd have thought too much money would be isolating... Can't help but think of Citizen Kane alone in his mansion.
At least they wouldn't be here destroying our democracy! If their companies want to do business here, they would have to pay taxes here. No more letting big businesses get away without paying their fair share of taxes.
We should go back to the tax rates before Regan. It should be 90% for anyone earning more than $500k per year. Voodoo economics doesn’t work Reganomics.
Incremental tax rates with 90% on top tier.
We used to do this. Pay off our deficit. Let billionaires pay back our society and it's resources that they used to make that much.
And let's deport illegal alien Musk.
Absolutely - I am not a billionaire so I have to ask - WTF can you do with 2bn that you can’t do with 1bn
Or indeed why do you even need 1Bn let alone 2bn
If we are serious about saving civilization and the natural world from these men, we have to consider a revolution to eliminate them. They will not yield, they will not have a "Grinch Who Stole Christmas" moment where they grow hearts, they will only grow more dangerous. Destroy them.
How can anyone spend a billion dollars? Cap should be much lower, but with benefits for investment in infrastructure, social programs or online safety.
Super wealthy have been bailed out by central banks many times, instead of capitalism cleaning its excesses by itself. Most of super wealthy's fortune derives from stock markets gains.
Wealth cap is not good because it removes an incentive to the entrepreneurs.
A one time tax of 50% of amounts above 100 million $ is a good way to proceed to bring back balance to the system. Payments in shares and/or real estate to a central Trust Fund could be envisaged.
No billionaires. That shd be the cap. But otherwise, I agree with you completely. No one man or fam shd have enuf $$ to own a small nation or buy the congress of a large one!
I wish I could properly credit whoever suggested that all centimillionaires, billionaires and soon to be trillionaires get to keep a
few million, are given a trophy to show they won capitalism and the rest of it all is transferred to public wealth.
Lina Kahn is trying, but of course all the billionaires including Mark Cuban wanted her fired. Kamala wouldn't say if she would keep her for fear of losing her billionaire donors.
I try to promote that idea
for a some time now
since we got a minimum wage
we should have a maximum wealth target
but one billion is far to much
no one needs more than a few millions
to live a life without having to slave
We're now seeing how billionaires are a gigantic national security risk. Buying out politicians & Supreme Court justices, amplifying disinfo from hostile nations, "donating" millions for govt appointments where to gut social programs while they enrich themselves. We need an oligarch tax bracket.
I feel like at a certain cap, a billion or two, they should be issued a card making everything free. That is the life goal. When it's reached, pump ALL THEIR CASH AND EARNINGS in to social programs because they dont need any of it anymore 🤔
#FarFarLeft
I’ve systematically examined every country on Earth. Over time, those with the greatest wealth concentrations (i.e. highest Gini Index Scores) tend to be more fragile and more authoritarian than those where wealth is more evenly distributed. Billionaires tend to be bad for national stability.
Exactly. If you don’t care what’s morally right, you should care about authoritarianism- ain’t no one better off with that. Socialism checks on capitalism is a small price to pay for democracy.
If this happened, the world would be a better place. In addition, it would stimulate economic growth if billionaires were forced to invest more into businesses, small businesses would increase, more education, college and trade schools, would have the funding necessary for a skilled workforce .
I would argue that in fact the exact opposite is true - VERY MANY of our problems are due to a small number of people greedily and completely unnecessarily hoarding a vast amount of wealth.
Excellent point, well argued LOL. You certainly proved me wrong hahaha.
The cost of living crisis most average people are suffering through at the moment is absolutely a direct result of the greed of corporations and the billionaires who own them.
It's not that resources are suddenly more scarce -
It's just that the corporations and their owners realised during Covid they could massively hike the cost of everything for an enormous profit and people would keep paying.
I would agree as long as they could choose from a list and directed their excess funds to the projects they care about the most. For me, it would be maternal/fetal/child health and well being. But I like the idea of choice.
Totally agree. In the US, first funds the excess wealth should go to is our national debt. Keep current spending as is for the time being and then increase social services after that.
Wealth != Cash on Hand ...Almost ALL people WORTH more than billion $$ has most of that tied up with company stocks. Look up the term "Unrealized Gains" if you can't grok the topic.
I would do it by incrementally increasing taxes on every dollar taken over the median income, to be put directly into a fund for public aid, illegal for anyone to attempt to redirect funds from. If "working harder" is really their aim, let them do it for less personal reward.
Should the government acquire the shares at market rates and nationalize the businesses or force down the prices by mandating a market sell off of a substantial portion of the company?
Living under the Iron Curtain would teach you that forced wealth redistribution leads to conflict. People won’t give up their hard earned money willingly. History shows such systems end in violence.
Real progress comes from fair opportunities, not forceful control.
You've lost me right there. Anyone should be in a position to chase wealth and success should they choose to. Now taxing that wealth, and income, and stock options, and inheritance, and god knows what else, this we could and prolly should discuss.
That’s not right. Why is it a billion? Why not a million? Why not $50,000? Because the minute it affects you, you may disagree. It’s better to give the needy opportunity.
Yeah man. I say hold a huge party like the Oscars and celebrate the victory when you hit a billion. You keep your money and then retire or work to help others. In 20 years we can raise it 2 billion.
Comments
Capitalists will go batshit 😎
Tax The Rich & Cap The Rich.
They are creating scarcity. We have enough of everything we need on this Earth, but we working class people have to struggle to house and feed our families while the rich often don’t have to work a day in their lives.
It's not illegal if it doesn't get enforced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit
Get a badge and a sticker
Then be generous
Wealth.
First.
Forgive my AI example
But there has to be a better system.
Because corporations only function is to make more money and they will do so by exploiting everyone and the environment.
It’s a sad ongoing fact that wealthy make most of the rules, even if those rules are hidden.
It is the duty of honorable people to impose ETHICS on those who would dictate by wealth.
That’s why I’m a Democrat. 😎
My point is that for billionaires to exist we have to believe in them.
How much will 10% of a billion build
A great start
Worker co-ops for all businesses with increasing control by the workers the bigger or/and wealthier the business.
Homes shouldn’t be bought and sold for profit, it a whole Ponzi scheme by everyone.
Mass transit focus, end the car dependence!
What we really need to do is peg the number of shares in any publicly traded company to the number of employees that company actually has. The exact number of shares a person can own is limited to exactly ONE.
#SendMusk2Mars #FuckElonMusk
#MuskHate
From memory the top marginal rate was around 90%
They should not exist.
Earn £20k as a single person, anything over 10 %, +40 k 20% etc, that would include capital gains, inheritance, shares, bonus, mortgage relief etc
....as it sounds
While I lean left like most here, that isn't what America is about. Tax the fk out of them, sure, but allow people to make their riches.
I mean, how much money & stuff does one person need.
Also, I'd have thought too much money would be isolating... Can't help but think of Citizen Kane alone in his mansion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth
The main person using it was mysteriously murdered
We used to do this. Pay off our deficit. Let billionaires pay back our society and it's resources that they used to make that much.
And let's deport illegal alien Musk.
Or indeed why do you even need 1Bn let alone 2bn
So why do you need it ?
If every corporation was a worker-owned co-op and all investments were bonds, there would be no billionaires in America.
1 Billion seconds is 31 fucking years.
$1M is $3000/day from 01 Jan to about 29(ish)OCT - less than a year.
$1B is $3000/day, every day...
For ONE THOUSAND YEARS.
- That is brilliant. Elegant in it's simplicity. I've never heard it put that way. Makes it really easy 4 regular people to understand.
Also...monopolies are pretty much tolerated in the USA, now. We need to smash that shit, too. Again.
👍
Wealth cap is not good because it removes an incentive to the entrepreneurs.
ha, you think I am kidding
A badge of honour opening hospitals, schools, universities, orphanages...
Now they just hoard wealth and live lives of absurd luxury.
Pathetic
few million, are given a trophy to show they won capitalism and the rest of it all is transferred to public wealth.
for a some time now
since we got a minimum wage
we should have a maximum wealth target
but one billion is far to much
no one needs more than a few millions
to live a life without having to slave
I agree 100%
1 billion is enough!
#FarFarLeft
The cost of living crisis most average people are suffering through at the moment is absolutely a direct result of the greed of corporations and the billionaires who own them.
It's not that resources are suddenly more scarce -
Prove me wrong.
Citizens united.
Living under the Iron Curtain would teach you that forced wealth redistribution leads to conflict. People won’t give up their hard earned money willingly. History shows such systems end in violence.
Real progress comes from fair opportunities, not forceful control.