popped over to Vichy Twitter to take the temperature and from center to left it's like 95 percent furious arguments for (somehow) tossing Biden over the side. sort of bleakly curious if we're going to be doing this for the rest of the campaign
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I don't get it. I am absolutely FOR our political figures to be questioned about their choices... but trying to rush to throw somebody overboard for what would be an absolutely ruinous clown-car convention makes no sense at all, to me.
It reminds me of Brexit. Some on Twitter were saying there were for Brexit because they wanted more immigration. I'm like buddy a bunch of your fellow Brexiters want less. Wtf do you think will happen IRL? When the choice is 'lets do something (unamed) different' everyone imagines their fav outcome.
Like I admire the optimism, but probably Biden drops out isn't actually the first domino in everyone's personal fantasy future. Because everyone has different fantasy futures.
Yes, we are. The decisions have already been made with buy in from top Democrats. Biden is staying in the campaign. But the conversation will go on as if that hasn't happened. Maybe it stops after the convention? Maybe not.
It’s small but checking out /r/EzraKlein over the past few days there’s a segment of people who seem legitimately *radicalized* that the incumbent who had a bad debate and saw a normal “bad debate” dip is somehow 100% doomed. Hope these people can just take a deep breath
worst way this could go is people convince themselves with increasing hysteria that Biden Needs To Go, he refuses, there is no way to force him out, and so the entire political spectrum and the MSM repeat the Trump campaign's core message nonstop for the next 4 months. I expect this to happen
That would be scary. But sometimes voters don't like being told what to do for four months straight, so even that scenario may not equal an automatic Trump coronation.
I think NYT and Twitter have the same issue of having invested themselves after the debate. To be wrong and give up is too be responsible for uselessly hurting Dems.
Like losing too much in Vegas, now cashing in accounts and second mortgages to triple down hoping on long odds to make it all worth.
Bsky really was the variant perception over the last two weeks. People relying on Twitter were almost as a rule super-aggressively Biden out and remain mostly there. But that view so far has been completely wrong, and lots of ppl here have been right. It's really interesting.
since it (including group chats) seems to be the primary news and opinion source for a lot of pundits, it makes sense that 'the media' has also been super weird and so-far-wrong about this
I have seen people I like and respect on both sides of the issue, and I have seen people I hold in utter contempt on both sides of the issue. It's a mess! Well, I'm here to slice that particular gordian knot: Biden and Trump should both immediately expire of natural causes.
Every verbal hiccup kicks off another round of Discourse; every mangled sentence turns into three days' coverage and at least one "Draft Harris" scam PAC.
this is also clearly why AOC and the rest have thrown in the towel. Biden must have been 100% clear on those calls that he's not dropping out, so all they can do now is not be the leftists who are tanking his campaign.
I’d bet dollars to donuts the words “I give you my word as a Biden” were uttered at least once on each of those calls. And he’s really never given any of us any reason not to trust him when he says that.
Who are the progressive members who you think tried to force him to bow out but have now "thrown in the towel?"
As far as I can tell it's all right wing dems who routinely try to quit the party before realizing the GOP won't let them keep their seats in a primary.
i don't think they *tried* but to the extent that there was clearly buzzing in the halls of congress about getting him to drop out, it's notable that the left flank were among the first to say outright, "he's not dropping out, and we will work to get him elected."
Yeah that's what I'm saying. The "buzzing" was from a tiny number of loser right wing dems and indies who never made up more than like 6-10 of the 250+ dems on Capitol Hill, and I don't know of a single progressive member who ever was part of the failed internal coup.
no, but even based on the way AOC spoke to reporters, i suspect that she would rather see him step aside as well. but as you say, they weren't about the get involved in any coups.
Won't they get bored by this ? It's been almost 2 weeks now and i'm sick and tired of seeing and reading the same shit over and over again different people and sometimes the same people. Move on. He's not dropping out just . Put up or shut up. This is not helpful for anyone least your own brain
Yeah it’s gonna be a cross between the non stop swiftboating of Kerry with Her Emails, all being blatted in a buzzing drone out of millions of vuvuzelas
He's going to be painted as an egotistical tyrant because the vast majority of Americans are ignorant and can't channel their emotions into the apparatus as it currently consists.
In 2032 we will be trying to explain to young folk what the 2016 primary was and we will say "You've heard about the Wars of the 2024 Presidential Election? It was like that but not as bad."
It’s not really an argument. One side is looking at the data and saying Biden will lose and the other side is putting their fingers in their ears and denying reality.
I wish the people getting their way at least claim responsibility after Biden loses, but I know they won’t.
Yes, because when general is revealed to be infirm, it’s normal for people with stakes in the campaign to recoil, resist, push against an avoidable disaster. Biden doesn’t need to drive the car! We can take away the keys!
Like, seriously, what’s the positive case for Biden winning in November? It’s telling people are saying “hey stop piling on it’s not helping” vs “no really he’s got this here’s why”
The polling data is not good for Biden, Dems already have to over perform by an average of 3.5 points to overcome the electoral hurdle if I remember my #s right. It wasn't particularly great before the debate, which was a real thing that occurred and not a mirage everyone will forget.
I don't know what the path forward to victory is for Biden in particular. Should everyone just collectively stop considering ways to win and assume a loss in November?
the best argument I’ve seen is “we’re losing by less than you’d expect for a doomed campaign!” but nobody can chart a plausible path for how it turns around. Personally I’m hoping Trump has a stroke.
Ryan, the Congressional Black Caucus has spoken. AOC has spoken. It's over. Biden will officially be the nominee in the next few weeks. People can decide if they want to feed Republican conspiracies about Jill doing a "Weekend At Bernie's", or not.
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Interestingly, the NYT went for Willkie in 1940, and here's their reasoning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_election_endorsements_made_by_The_New_York_Times
Like losing too much in Vegas, now cashing in accounts and second mortgages to triple down hoping on long odds to make it all worth.
Just because Biden stays in and elected Dems decide it's not worth it, doesn't make Biden Remainers "right".
They have to comment for $
I was surprised to see trueanon and rev left both have special episodes about.
Why would people that far left (ostensibly like me) give a shit?
But it allows for content and commentary
Like this was baked into the cake when HRC conceded even though she significantly won the popular vote.
Or Al gore for that matter. Why didn’t they do more then?
It shouldn't.
And it sucks! It's a bummer! But this was the top concern in nominating this candidate, and now it's come up. So here we are.
As far as I can tell it's all right wing dems who routinely try to quit the party before realizing the GOP won't let them keep their seats in a primary.
I wish the people getting their way at least claim responsibility after Biden loses, but I know they won’t.
If Biden doesn’t drop out and wins, then if he steps down Harris becomes president.
What exactly are we doing here?
there are many ways that could hurt the democratic party, the presidential candidate & the future of democracy here