Stupidity really does infect politicians. So @libdems.org.uk it is! Do you think they can be serious for once, commit in writing to join EU without delay. It’s the only way UK gets growth and avoids poverty
Have you forgiven the Tory’s for Brexit or Labour for Corbyn, Johnson, Truss? (If it was not for Corbyn UK would not have had those Tory’s) yet you blame @libdems.org.uk for tuition fees. REALLY?
True enough.. (was partly a joke - and at the time I was a single mum of twins) - and no haven’t forgiven the Tories (Will never forgive the Tories) - all of those things can be true responses at the same time. . Not time for what about isms..
Blue Labour Brexiters are in charge, Peter. All the signs are there, with one or two advisors close to Starmer.
Starmer and Reeves are delusional if they believe the UK has any negotiating power with Trump installed in the White House.
We need to be part of a vast economic block to weather MAGA.
Starmer needs to tell Trump to go F**k himself!! Never have knowingly bought anything American and probably never will. That's not to say I don't really feel for all Americans drawn into this sh*tshow, I really do blame Republicans!!
Sick of this dogged adherence to self-imposed red lines. Why are people allowed to change their minds regularly in general elections, but the outcome of the (52/48) Brexit vote was so certain that it never needs a vote again?
Maybe they do have a point though, I would vote remain every single time!
"Calculation" eh? Where's their working out? All I can see are benefits; largest market, nearest market, less red tape, strong environmental protections, huge collective bargaining power. Please Labour what are the negatives? Closed tax loopholes? #RejoinEU @teamlabouruk.bsky.social #LabourOut
Maybe it's devolving policing to machines & governance to calculators that only get the correct answer 70% of the time & require vast amounts of energy (more fossil fuels anyone?) and personal data (more digital surveillance anyone?) Instead of people.
#KoolAid
I don't recall ever posting anything positive about the PM. @andyburnham.bsky.social however, is the embodiment of a progressive, modern labour leader whose policies + beliefs are steeped in traditional labour values.
Well, Brexit seems to have been a step backwards so how much further back do Labour want to go?
Also, what "calculation" hasn't changed? The only one I know is to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Come on Starmer ditch the ridiculous Manifesto red lines.
I don't think rejoin will happen, unfortunately, until the government AND the opposition will agree to that. I can't see it happening in my (or Starmer's) lifetime ...
starmer committed not to rejoin as part of his manifesto. so the bar to u-turning and keeping any trust or credibility is SO high. for labour, it would have to be another labour leader - a shame for starmer as he seems good and with integrity (and its that, ironically, that'd stopping him).
Since when does Starmer have integrity? He's U-turned on pretty much everything except his support for Brexit (which was itself a U-turn from the position that helped him win the leadership contestr).
Stop making excuses for him.
Times have radically changed.
UK has delusional view of itself as somehow relevant to us in some meaningful way. Canada it's biggest customer just got shafted even tho it hurts US.
UK is tiny in comparison
The UK government is 100% going for growth, that is why they aren't interested in the world's biggest market that happens to be literally our closest neighbour. South Sudan, North Korea and El Salvador will presumably fill the trade gap. Are we really trying to outstupid America?
Sigh, yeah because operating out of a weaker position on your own will surely get better results with a criminal like Trump, than being backed up by the biggest trade bloc in the world. What an idiot.
And you'll still have to support them because they ain't the Tories.
Shit choice, shit chance.
Scotland is waiting on our referendum and we are offski.
Unfortunately,I am.
They asked me for my name,none number,user name and password.
ALL details couldn't be found,they replied.
So I decided to delete everyone of my followers and left them a sarcastic song....ELO. 'Mr Blue Sky.'
“And you'll still have to support them because they ain't the Tories.” Not a chance. I didn’t fall for that nonsense last year. Millions who did will not fall for it next time. Why on earth would anyone use their vote to say they approve of what Starmer has done?
Who are they trying to kid? There were no ‘calculations’ on the impact of Brexit before it was inflicted on us. Largely because none of the people selling it bothered to actually define what it meant. Any calculation performed now would give the result ‘rejoin now, you idiot.’
What's the calculation. Wait for Tariffs to trash growth and for red wall electorate to clamour for rejoining CU and simultaneously hang mess around nationalist heads?
FFS Starmer it's time to be realistic.. the world order has gone.. you came into power promoting growth.. Brexit has cost us 4%of GDP.. re-engage with the EU now
FFS! They've got the opportunity to turn the country around, instead they're pissing about trying to reinforce Tory produced harm to the country & pandering to the orange fruitloop. We shouldn't be looking across the Atlantic, our place is in Europe & creating a rock solid alliance against fascists.
I wish people would consider that you might not have to rejoin the Customs Union. You might very well negotiate a Customs arrangement that would benefit both sides, and spare blushes.
You're right of course, they show no sign whatever of making such a choice. It's just important to remind people that other choices exist, and right again, circumstances (and political pressure here) will, eventually.
I think they are completely missing the change in public opinion. Whilst they are busy trying not to alarm Reform supporters, they are missing the significant step change with non Reform voters
Actually, it is not open to the UK to join the EU Customs Union. That is reserved for EU members only. It could of course try to negotiate 'a' customs union with the EU, as Turkey has. That is likely to be on narrower terms, of course.
Apologies, Simon. You said ‘you [ie the UK] might not have to rejoin the Customs Union’ from which I inferred that this was being presented as one available option, which it’s not. Sorry if I misunderstood you.
I always refer to it as the UK moving much closer to the EU at pace, and moving away from the US quickly. Obviously with a longer term view to rejoin the EU, but easy steps. We can’t trust Trump, his officials or US voters who chose to poison the world. Our relationship with the US is dead.
Why would one of the largest markets let the UK have its cake and eat it too? You guys left and a message has to be sent towards those who dissent. If you want out of the EU? Fine. But you’re going to feel the pain of isolation. It’s necessary to keep the block together.
Nobody in the EU wants to suffer the same fate as the UK. So you come back fully or don’t come back at all. Your days of getting a better deal than everyone else are over. Rightfully so.
However I am in the EU, I work for the EU, and I know how it works. There are various permutations that would allow the UK to come closer to the EU short of rejoining, but all come at a cost. The UK isn’t getting its Extrawurst. Actions have consequences.
But they make a very good point: why should the EU compromise the single market or customs union for the UK? As I understand it, there’s little appetite to have another Swiss-style piecemeal arrangement.
Until people get passed winners and losers in UK/EU dealing then we both suffer. Any movement, big or small must benefit both sides - two winners. Simple principle that gets lost in point scoring.
Perhaps you should ask the Germans? They suggested it recently after all. Seriously, a Customs Arrangement would give benefits to both sides - the Swiss arrangements go beyond a Customs arrangement - they're in the Single Market.
Yeah the EU needs to set a hard lesson for other EU countries who were maybe once considering leaving the block. They aren’t going to go soft and give the UK a break now. It’s either come back into the fold with no sweetheart deal. Or bye!
I tend to dip in and out these days, mainly due to frustration at the wall of noise demanding the impossible (at least for now) and the secondary wave of negativity that seems to meet any suggestion of trying to achieve something logical and positive in lieu of it.
I agree Carol. We have to send the message loud and clear, we are European and we want and need to rejoin the EU. Labour must listen. Now more than ever we have to work with our near neighbours on trade, defence etc. #Rejoin
Imho Labour and the Tories are neuralgic about Brexcyst, none of them want to relive the May era of nonstop chaos again. Have a sad suspicion that this is going to take a generational change in politicians till we can reopen the debate.
If we rejoined the EU we'd be hit by 20% tariffs. There's a strong case for rejoining, obvs, but not just jumping before everything is considered - even if the EU would allow it.
Not sure how that aligns with his statement in parliament the other day that “we have prepared for all eventualities, and we will rule nothing out.” 🤷♂️
The corporate class pushed Starmer from the right to extinguish a chance of a genuinely leftist leadership and the EU rapprochement, so his refusal has to be understood in this context.
His backers are making a killing in our increasingly deregulated, free-flowing-sewer environment.
The leftist leadership of Corbyn produced the largest election fail against Boris Fucking Johnson, and is responsible for sinking May's soft-Brexit and us ending up with this, hideously anti-worker hard-Brexit.
Corbyn wasn’t as bad as the right leaning press (who adored BFJ) would have us believe .. I think they are partly responsible and (at the time) the public didn’t realise he was just Trump in tails..but yeah wrong time wrong man, the antisemitism rumour mill didn’t help
There's always a confused rightwing who considers himself the true face of the left, jumping into the pit, flame raging about the radical far-left by which he means...just, actual, real left. As opposed to opportunistic neoliberal one.
Yeah, I know, the real left is the one that sides with the reactionary Arab Nationalists who do a better Nazi salutes than Elon when they scream about killing the Jews, right?
The right wing press always had responsibilty in every Tory win, that is true, and yes, he wasn't that cartoonishly bad they made him look like, however, the chance that anyone who ever called members of Hezbollah/Hamas their 'friends' being not antisemitic is very-very low.
Perhaps it is time that Starmer showed some respect for the electorate by explaining why he refuses to consider rejoining the EU, especially as polls show the majority favour rejoining.
People talk about how well Starmer has played Trump in getting a lower tariff rate. But there’s a huge cost, a massive cost. This is the cost. Britain under Trump’s influence can’t act in its best interest. It can’t gravitate back to Europe & government can’t tell the truth about what’s happening.
Starmer hasn't "played Trump".
The UK has been hit by the additional US tariff mandated by Trump’s "reciprocal tariff" formula. That the tariff is only 10% is due to the UK's poor export performance with the US.
No idea who or what Starmer stands for anymore. Welfare cuts to the disabled, WFA, cutting overseas aid and sticking firm on Brexshit red lines. He's going to turn Labour into a one term government. So disappointing
The sad fact is that Labour are a staunch NO to EU single market, NO to customs union, NO to freedom of movement, hard brexit party.
They are shamefully pandering to the Far Right in a desperate effort to stop haemorrhaging votes, knowing that their hard brexit choice is disastrous for the economy.
By doing so they are losing voters, so I don’t understand the stubbornness of their far-right and Brexit policies. It’s self-harm. It puzzles me where they are going or wanting to go. What’s their aim?
Can No.10 kindly share that calculation with us. Because I hear many qualified voices saying that going back into the community is the path that we urgently need to take.
Ask the question why. Could it be that he is made (or plans to make) deals that precludes us being subject to EU standards? Anything to do with Blackrock and Freeports?
That's the real question isn't it? What is happening in the U.S. may be instructive. When enough people who were formally able to survive are facing poverty, ill health, deportation and even death, we're likely to get the answer to that question.
Hopefully. The UK virtually belongs to the US - it's going to take a long time to assert any kind of independence (assuming it's even practically possible).
Perhaps it's time for us Brits to get out and tell Starmer enough is enough, the majority of Brits would want to rejoin the EU not despite trump tariffs but to show solidarity with our European family!!!
Do you remember TTIP with the EU when we were still members,
how fabulous that was.
Then stupid Brexit
and Spiteful Trump who dumped everything with Obama or EU on the label were capriciously dumped and where are we now.
When a wiseman makes a mistake he admits it, reverses it and minimises the damage.
When a fool makes a mistake he tries to justify it, tries to make it work and when it doesn’t blames everyone else for his mistake.
If we allow facts, truth, reality and evidence to interfere with the narrative then we should apply to rejoin the EU as a matter of urgency.
If there are any doubters then look to who would oppose.
Putin, Trump, Farage Johnson and Rees-Mogg and all objections can be dispelled.
Going back to visit #England after 7 years in #Austria throws into perspective how very much #UK stopped progressing. It was frightening that people accepted lower standards and your elect/gas now double ours!
🇪🇺🇦🇹
#RejoinEU
Plenty of homegrown food. Come and give it a try.
The govt has drawn red lines all around themselves for what reason? Not democracy. The country wants this and they should try to be Labour and stop ruining the country and blaming the poor and disabled for lack of money
Join CU and tax the rich and things would improve quickly
Starmer was and will always be a Felon47 ass licker. He has lost his mind like our conservatives. Public should come out protest and say rejoin. The political establishment do not work for its citizens.
What I don’t understand is the facts are out there. Brexit has cost the UK economy billions of pounds per year, weaken our soft power and standing in the world and for what? Blue passports?
Starmer cannot take us back into the EU because he’ll never survive it. The call to rejoin has to come from the people and it has to be deafening. Despite everything, we’re not even close yet.
Liberal Democrats should make it a main part of their election platform for the next election. The slogan should be "a vote for the Liberal Democrats is a vote for reversing Brexit." A party needs to do, and I think they would have the most to gain from doing it.
To suggest that Trump’s tariffs and escalating trade war “have not changed the calculation” is economic illiteracy. But answer is not to spend years negotiating a new customs union, even if EU were interested in that, but to rejoin European single market, which can be done < 2 yrs from outside EU.
To rejoin EU we have to start by electing a govt committed to apply. At some point EU MSs will likely insist on a referendum, unless there’s a clear majority in next GE (34% of vote won’t be enough, they won’t want UK changing its mind half way through the Art 49 process).
UK can rejoin EEA now.
There seems to be a pretty fixed belief in modern electioneering that you "win" be making sure you don't annoy the voters "in the middle". Net result is that you fail to energise you "base" and they don't vote.
Personally I want to know what politicians WANT to do, not what they don't want to do.
I will never vote for the Starmer Party. But the Libs Dems joined the Tories and got us everything that followed & Austerity! So no thanks!. I will vote for a Socialist independent. The Starmer Party are NOT Labour! they are Plastic Tories trying to outdo the Tory fascists we voted out.
I said I'd judge the party on what it is now. I didn't say that meant I'd vote for it. Being an 'airhead' isn't all that relevant. Liz Truss is supposedly intelligent. I voted for Corbyn's Labour because I supported his policy platform, not his level of intelligence, which doesn't seem that high.
Parties are whatever versions donors want. I disagree with you on Corbyn, he is intelligent & usually proven correct. I like him & his policies. He was naive & trusted those who later helped in his political assassination. Though had he won, he would likely have met with a David Kelly type fate.
That's what you're vote is for, but sometimes its wise to remember history & how it repeats itself. Who would have thought fascism would raise it's ugly head again? who would believe the Israeli government outdoing the Nazis & their terrible crimes against humanity, with the exact same ferocity? .
I dont recall saying they are the same? I said i wouldn't vote for them because of what they did 15yrs ago. As i wouldnt vote Labour now as it is no longer a Socialist Party & more akin to the Tories Act:2. I would vote for Corbyn if he were leader of a new socialist Party, sadly that won't happen.
The self delusion & contempt for the population of the UK is astounding. The *only* practical way to achieve the growth the Government seeks; to mitigate the harm of Trump’s tariffs are causing; & to fully contribute to Europe defence & security is to rejoin the EEA & EU SM (& preferably a CU).
I'm intrigued what this 'calculation' is.
Is it the 'economic health of the nation' calculation?
Or is it the 'we, the Labour Party, don't want to lose votes to Reform in what we erroneously perceive to be pro-Brexit strongholds in marginal Labour seats' calculation?
Starmer you are a fucking idiot. The f ever there was a chance to get the UK realigned to Europe and not look like the fools we were for leaving… it’s now
The mince is soooooo very thick in the cabinet office. Scared that they may lose a few votes to Reform, but not noticing that life-long Labour voters are going to give their support to Greens, Liberals, Independents, to anyone who is not right wing. Idiots.
It makes sense if he's going ahead with the Tory freeports, allowing chlorinated chicken in and genocide of the old, sick and disabled. The EU won't allow any of that, they might turn a blind eye to the genocide but not freeports or American food standards.
It doesn’t seem to matter what changes in the world or what proof there is against his decisions, Starmer remains resolutely stubborn. There’s nothing wrong with changing your mind when it’s the right thing to do and evidence supports it, but he can’t seem to see that. It’s incredibly frustrating.
Comments
It really is an ill divided world we live in.
https://youtu.be/ajaEKP3d86k?si=LtBYtHR6npA1vdHh
Starmer and Reeves are delusional if they believe the UK has any negotiating power with Trump installed in the White House.
We need to be part of a vast economic block to weather MAGA.
🤦 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤦
Maybe they do have a point though, I would vote remain every single time!
I'm definitely keeping my eye out for some corrugated iron sheets for my new shanty.
Maybe it's devolving policing to machines & governance to calculators that only get the correct answer 70% of the time & require vast amounts of energy (more fossil fuels anyone?) and personal data (more digital surveillance anyone?) Instead of people.
#KoolAid
I suspect not as big a reason as austerity in the final analysis, but definitely one of the reasons.
Also, what "calculation" hasn't changed? The only one I know is to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Come on Starmer ditch the ridiculous Manifesto red lines.
Times have radically changed.
UK has delusional view of itself as somehow relevant to us in some meaningful way. Canada it's biggest customer just got shafted even tho it hurts US.
UK is tiny in comparison
Shit choice, shit chance.
Scotland is waiting on our referendum and we are offski.
https://x.com/AdameMedia/status/1909402647569834148?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1909402647569834148%7Ctwgr%5E6573e3c6b2d13ca59b9e1154c20fd1ae3ad77898%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html1909402647569834148
They asked me for my name,none number,user name and password.
ALL details couldn't be found,they replied.
So I decided to delete everyone of my followers and left them a sarcastic song....ELO. 'Mr Blue Sky.'
And it seems Starmer won't help us either.
We are doomed ☹️
You all voted tactically.
Now do so again.
.
#RedToryScum
His backers are making a killing in our increasingly deregulated, free-flowing-sewer environment.
So low.
See the graph of poll outcomes at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Union
The UK has been hit by the additional US tariff mandated by Trump’s "reciprocal tariff" formula. That the tariff is only 10% is due to the UK's poor export performance with the US.
It is in regular use amongst Brits on here and on other platforms.
As a free gift have ‘Mango Maniac’.
No copy write.
👍🙂
Even with their majority in the 100's
Seems Starmer and Labour are afraid of their own shadows
#ClownsIdiots
They are shamefully pandering to the Far Right in a desperate effort to stop haemorrhaging votes, knowing that their hard brexit choice is disastrous for the economy.
He is a shape-shifter who makes absolute vows, promises, commitments, pledges, then ditches them in a moment when he sees advantage elsewhere.
Quite simply, he can’t be trusted.
how fabulous that was.
Then stupid Brexit
and Spiteful Trump who dumped everything with Obama or EU on the label were capriciously dumped and where are we now.
When a fool makes a mistake he tries to justify it, tries to make it work and when it doesn’t blames everyone else for his mistake.
If there are any doubters then look to who would oppose.
Putin, Trump, Farage Johnson and Rees-Mogg and all objections can be dispelled.
“Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
Is the height of stupidity.
🇪🇺🇦🇹
#RejoinEU
Plenty of homegrown food. Come and give it a try.
Join CU and tax the rich and things would improve quickly
Slow but steady movement towards re-joining is not enough. Yes, Reform is a danger as they prey on the ignorant. But it is time to take a stand.
We’re still aligned on 99% of things.
Rejoining might be off the table, fine. But at the very least, get us a better deal than the current mess, throw in FOM, and we're back!
God help the UK.
The world will move on with or without you.
🇨🇦🇪🇺🇺🇦
UK can rejoin EEA now.
Personally I want to know what politicians WANT to do, not what they don't want to do.
Spineless twat.
Is it the 'economic health of the nation' calculation?
Or is it the 'we, the Labour Party, don't want to lose votes to Reform in what we erroneously perceive to be pro-Brexit strongholds in marginal Labour seats' calculation?
It's an easy guess, to be fair.
When an obese, white 78yro felon scares the international world leaders to submit before him...
BUNCH OF COWARDS
USA is the largest TERRORIST ORGANISATION in the world!