…that her calling for fewer Asians in America — like my kids — makes her a racist piece of shit. Count me as unsupportive of the kind of “free speech culture” that says I shouldn’t call a wretched bigot a wretched bigot. - ThreadSky

kenwhite.bsky.social • 196 days ago

…that her calling for fewer Asians in America — like my kids — makes her a racist piece of shit.

Count me as unsupportive of the kind of “free speech culture” that says I shouldn’t call a wretched bigot a wretched bigot.

Comments

hurricanexyz.bsky.social•196 days ago

In MY free speech culture we get to say that terrible people suck

kenwhite.bsky.social•196 days ago

Count me also as unimpressed with the moral and philosophical incoherence of people who insist on asking “does calling Amy Wax a bigot chill speech” but steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the question “does a professor saying black and Asian people don’t belong here chill speech.”

allostericsite.bsky.social•196 days ago

I got into this exact argument on FB (a platform I rarely use anymore). Someone I thought was smart said they could never vote for Harris because she was against free speech, even if that “free speech” fuels violence against minorities and essentially silences them. It’s a take, I guess.

mattblaze.federate.social.ap.brid.gy•196 days ago

@kenwhite.bsky.social Amy Wax made me proud to no longer be at Penn.

ottermd37.bsky.social•196 days ago

Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the 1st amendment doesn't protect you in any way from social opprobrium for repellent but non-threatening speech. It just says the government can't jail you for it.

kenwhite.bsky.social•196 days ago

You’re correct. I am referring to the “free speech culture” discourse.

ottermd37.bsky.social•196 days ago

Yes, got that, sorry I wasn't clear. I was reacting in shock to Wax's remark about "totalitarian suppression" of her hate speech. I think any employer could refuse to keep an employee who engaged in hate speech on premises. I hope that most would.

ottermd37.bsky.social•196 days ago

The part that puzzles me most is how she came to be given tenure. Because I think it's highly unlikely that she successfully hid all her racist views until the day after tenure was granted. There had to be signs.

rismith.bsky.social•196 days ago

Cal gave John Yu tenure fully knowing about his authorship of the torture memos. Law schools absolutely do not give a shit how morally abhorrent you are.

joegordon.bsky.social•196 days ago

Bold of you to think that racism would have been seen by the decision makers as a disqualified or even a negative. I have a low opinion of how elites crown each other based on pedigree and what they consider respectability. Signed, a Penn graduate.

elsieyork.bsky.social•196 days ago

Yeah, even if it’s as base as ‘you are alienating and insulting our customers’ (or in this case, students who bring in $$), that feels like a reason to sack someone.

chessercat.bsky.social•195 days ago

Wild that all the Ivy League lawyers on the Ivy League faculty committee couldn’t find a way to do this.

rednecklefty.bsky.social•196 days ago

Or (correct me if I am wrong) penalizing you in any way if you say you are a Trump voter. Or Harris voter.

robinbobcat.bsky.social•196 days ago

This looks like a good spot to leave this:

tectim.bsky.social•196 days ago

Oh I'm gonna suppress a LOT more than speech if folks like this keep getting platformed.

troutgirl.bsky.social•196 days ago

Sad, she was born into a Jewish family in 1953, when white male academics still said disgusting things like this about people exactly like her.

alans9.bsky.social•196 days ago

Wow, since she's now 71, I can't believe they didn't hurry her "retirement" along. Maybe this will.

troutgirl.bsky.social•196 days ago

She has tenure, it's hard to force her to retire for what could be a speech issue :(

dreadpiratezed.bsky.social•196 days ago

As a kid, I once saw a cartoon that's cracked me up ever since.

Scene: a university laboratory; a struggling white-coated figure bound to a table.
A wild-eyed, white coated figure approaches, knife held high.
"Mad? Mad? Of course I'm mad! But - I have tenure!"

troutgirl.bsky.social•196 days ago

Was it a Far Side? He is my high school alum!

alans9.bsky.social•196 days ago

Depends on the institution and contract/faculty bylaws, I guess.

Here, they can put pressure on to open that spot up, especially if you aren't meeting standards. We've had at least one tenured professor moved along when his alcoholism (probably) led to sexual harassment.

troutgirl.bsky.social•196 days ago

Wasn't Penn one of the schools where they fired a female president for not bending the knee to Jewish alumni or something? I don't imagine they can take on Wax under those circumstances.

chessercat.bsky.social•195 days ago

She already invited the white supremacist back. I bet she retires at the end of the year, before the disciplinary action goes into effect.

kenwhite.bsky.social•196 days ago

She’s just such an absolute piece of shit, so diametrically opposed to key values of the university, and it’s so loathsome to portray her as some kind of hero.

padrock.bsky.social•196 days ago

Oh cool love that a law professor is Jesse Plemmons in Civil War

dougrutherford.bsky.social•196 days ago

I always have to bask in the irony of someone not Native American complaining about immigration.

marktspence.bsky.social•196 days ago

My earliest ancestors on this continent literally signed the Mayflower Compact, and the latecomers arrived right after the American Revolution. I am a child of immigrants, no matter how distant, and xenophobic "nativists" exhaust me--they didn't get here via the Bering land bridge either...

lizardky.bsky.social•196 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/lizardky.bsky.social/post/3kbupzo7pyd2k

weregopher.bsky.social•195 days ago

Dave Berg was brilliant

icengineer.bsky.social•196 days ago

I was a subscriber in those days, but far too young to appreciate some of the genius in those pages...

mrquindazzi.bsky.social•196 days ago

But have you read her monograph on the superior phrenology of WASP law students? No? C'mon Mr.White, don't be so close minded

marktspence.bsky.social•196 days ago

Well, he *does* have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter...

camponeill.bsky.social•196 days ago

I can't unsee Christopher Moltisanti in drag

larelli.bsky.social•196 days ago

I read the posts of someone here who took a class from her &he said that she was determinedly &specifically ugly to the black students in his class.

Universities don’t hire professors to roam campus free speeching it up- they are hired to publish in a manner that benefits the uni’s rep &teach

larelli.bsky.social•196 days ago

And Wax failed in both requirements of her job. She is a disgrace to her university and a cruel and unfair instructor.

kenwhite.bsky.social•196 days ago

Also a reminder for no particular reason

porter79.bsky.social•196 days ago

Hello. Love the podcast, hate mayonaise

What are these clips in reference to?

alttag.bsky.social•196 days ago

jaocomms.bsky.social•196 days ago

Where is The Onion brief?

noahbrand.bsky.social•196 days ago

"It's a shame that you're bad at getting jokes, but you don't get to make that the government's problem."

hleisthen.bsky.social•196 days ago

Wow, and here I am, a non-citizen who went to Penn, with the exotic name of Heather. Good thing she wasn't there then -- mighta given her a heart attack.

jdrch.github.io•196 days ago

Does she realize international students are tuition cash cows to universities?

chessercat.bsky.social•195 days ago

I mean, I figured that out my first semester in college, so if anything, it’s yet another reason she shouldn’t be around any students or employed by a university.

mitchsolomon.bsky.social•196 days ago

Just thinking about Penn and a tenure committee that knew exactly who Wax was but happened to adjudicate before 2021

hope-post.bsky.social•195 days ago

Apparently not abhorrent enough to fire the bigot, so sort of in line enough with their values it seems!

troyliss.bsky.social•196 days ago

Waiting to discover that the American name belonged to a foreign student from Europe.

dickius.bsky.social•196 days ago

It costs one hundred and eleven thousand American dollars per year to attend Penn Law and have the professor call you a filthy immigrant.

carlgt1.bsky.social•195 days ago

I was thinking even public universities jack up rates for foreign students - so they presumably love the money even if they have profs bitching about foreign students.

vreejack.bsky.social•196 days ago

My family has been here for nearly 400 years, and fought on the righteous side of every war (according to history), and since I rarely get to do this I am going to feel a little bit smug at her expense.

chessercat.bsky.social•195 days ago

My family has also been here since the 17th century, but I have an unamerican name, apparently. (And let’s not worry about that one war.)

jtimmer.bsky.social•196 days ago

And yet people who invite Charles Murray to campus face no consequences.

clutch3-16.bsky.social•196 days ago

I don’t want to sound extreme but she deserves the death penalty for this

lawzag.bsky.social•196 days ago

She’s basically Josh Barro if Josh’s mayonnaise promotion was recast as ethnic jingoism.

bobson-dugnut.bsky.social•196 days ago

annabellelecter.bsky.social•195 days ago

What a jerk

curtosis.bsky.social•196 days ago

She even managed to trim off four words.

daezer.bsky.social•196 days ago

Is it true that FIRE is defending her?

wooble.geoffreyspear.com•196 days ago

7.7% of Penn Law students are international students. Her institution *already* primarily educates American citizens.

vaiyt.bsky.social•192 days ago

When she says American she means white

wooble.geoffreyspear.com•192 days ago

I mean it's Penn so they're probably also primarily white.

wooble.geoffreyspear.com•192 days ago

Well, 51% in law, anyway, which to be fair to Penn as a whole is way whiter than their overall student body (32.5%)

chanticleer.com•196 days ago

"A professor, in the simple spirit of open conversation and inquiry, invited someone with hateful views to speak to her class so that students may come to understand what is being said out there in the marketplace of ideas. Of course, the professor doesn't endorse… wait, I'm being handed a note."

nickel76.bsky.social•196 days ago

I don’t know, I have generally been awed (not in a good way) with conservative’s abilities to withstand cognitive dissonance at levels that would cause seizure in stroke in anyone with an ounce of morality…

mumbly-joe.bsky.social•196 days ago

::me looking over Penn's newly updated "community guidelines" re: campus demonstrations:: yeah no I can see how very concerned they are about not chilling speech

badforbusiness.bsky.social•196 days ago

Isn’t this school that just made news for confiscating copies of the student paper, which they had previously completely defunded? Or am I mixing up my free-speech champion universities?

lanius.bsky.social•196 days ago

That was Penn State.

seentoomuch.bsky.social•196 days ago

It's not incoherent, it's "there should be no consequences for conservatives" as a moral philosophy.

elmonoenano.bsky.social•196 days ago

Don't know if she's barred, but when this stuff comes up w/ attorneys/mil/LEO, part of the job is support and defense of the 14th A. Say what you want outside of your job role, but when your job requires you to swear an oath to the Const., this is an issue w/ your job in re: to the 14th. A.

celticdragon1.bsky.social•196 days ago

I'm a teacher, and I will say her entire public (and apparently in-class) deportment is utterly antithetical to a fair and productive learning environment.

Any examination of her free speech and academic rights MUST be considered wrt the needs of students who lack her institutional power.

samulmschneider.bsky.social•196 days ago

fellow teacher here agreeing. though in higher ed and legal academy settings some of those power dynamic concerns are a little muted (students not minors, professional studies not compelled primary ed etc), a flagrant set of abusive attitudes like this gets past even that kind of consideration.

dlevey.bsky.social•196 days ago

As I understand it, freedom of speech does not include freedom from consequences - including being thought of as a flaming asshole.

prud-homme.org•196 days ago

I appreciate your ability to communicate clearly and incisively even through feelings of anger and frustration. It helps to clearly define and label exactly what is so maddening about these people and these “debates”.

munson.land•196 days ago

People reveal a lot about themselves in who they decide to advocate for, who to ignore, and who to condemn

quick13.bsky.social•196 days ago

Free speech*

*with consequences

hdthoreauaway.bsky.social•196 days ago

But that second part wasn’t on the tin*!!!!

*The Constitution

dirk.hohndel.org•196 days ago

it should be self-evident that this (calling for fewer in America) is disqualifying behavior. Yet here we are.

costrike.bsky.social•196 days ago

As a fellow father of Asian kids, she can eat my entire ass

lexiapollo.bsky.social•196 days ago

Bravo!

edgarallandoh.bsky.social•195 days ago

The US is facing the crisis Germany dealt with after the war: substance vs form.

jmsantiago.bsky.social•196 days ago

This yes! How many of my fellow white people tell me how they retain relationships with bigots by “avoiding political discussion.” If someone thinks people of color/LGBTQ+ people don’t deserve to be in public respected for who they are, that person doesn’t deserve politeness. Can’t look past that.

syntropic.xyz•196 days ago

She's Jewish FFS (as am I). The idea that *her* minority should be given prestige and grace while fuck all the others is so morally bankrupt, I want to chew my arm off.

bloodspeaker.bsky.social•196 days ago

She's a toxic abscess on the rectum of humanity.

mnterrier.bsky.social•196 days ago

I'm a firm believer that if someone says horrible bigoted shit and I call them out on it I am not abridging their freedom of speech I am exercising mine.

jmarquiso.bsky.social•196 days ago

Isn't calling a wretched bigot a wretched bigot use of free speech?

tinavstammy.bsky.social•196 days ago

She has the right to say her appallingly bigoted piece; we have the right to call her a wretched bigot. Seems fair to me.

I'm a little surprised they didn't revoke tenure, but then, I've never really understood tenure. I mean, I know *what* it is, what I don't get is the justification for it.

ottermd37.bsky.social•196 days ago

I'm not sure it can be revoked. Harvard tried really hard to revoke Mack's tenure when he went batshit about alien abductions, but they weren't able to do it.

hdthoreauaway.bsky.social•196 days ago

Usually it’s “ability to bring in massive grants to the department.”

digitalprophet.online•196 days ago

Make Racists Afraid Again.

golux13.bsky.social•196 days ago

I'd settle for Ashamed

maggiekat.bsky.social•196 days ago

Damn, she's got one of the most narrow lists of who gets into the Club I've ever seen and funny thing, it corresponds to her own identity plus whoever was already in the Club.

(Even then, she wants to kick out anyone who disagrees with her supremacy ideology or has diluted their race purity)

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