I'm a believer in smart policy, but all the finger-pointing in the LA firestorm about hydrant flows and LAFD budgets seems like arguing about the adequacy of Hiroshima's 1945 building code standards. It's a way to evade the big questions.
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All a distraction from Trump becoming a felon. Stopnrepeating what Maga plant as a distraction. Notice they aren't to be found to actually help. Some tough guys eh?
I agree it's climate change. And Gavin Newsom and other politicians told us California would have more frequent and more devastating fires. But they did nothing to prepare to fight those fires. It was just business as usual.
You don't need to be a wildfires expert to question why if we're certain to be hit with much worse and more frequent wildfires we were not taking serious steps to deal with those risks? Seems pretty basic to me. But that' just me.
What steps do we take to prepare for 100 mph winds coming off of the desert? There are new regs for building houses to withstand fires but to make that more effective it means rebuilding all buildings to that standard. And no matter what, everything is drier and there is only so much water.
(Not a firefighter, but have done lots of emergency planning work with them) if a fire is being pushed through bone-dry vegetation and structures by 100mph winds, nothing will stop it until a) the wind dies down b) it rains or c) it gets to the ocean.
Every wildfire response has mistakes that will come up in any decent after-action review, and I'm sure this one has some too. MAGA will pounce on the flaws and say "see it wasn't climate change!" and they will be 100% bad faith horseshit merchants when they say that.
It's not about one wildfire. Climate change is making fires worse & more frequent. We need to do more to prevent the causes as well the consequences. If a Democrat does something stupid I'm going be as willing to point the finger at them as I am at those not reducing their carbon footprint.
Once winds permitted resumed air operations more aerial tankers would have helped. Well before that, modeling of extreme fire events might have led to the purchase of more and different staff, equipment & facilities instead of squandering state budget surpluses on checks many of us did not need.
Canadian & Hawaiian fires, Hawaii, cyclones, atmospheric rivers, planet heat records.
I’ll tell u, United States was forcing the world to delay the green transition, stay on fossil fuels, grow LNG methane (33% worse than coal emissions over 20 years)‼️
It’s exactly that and disrespectful to those affected. KCBS is trying to stir up blame to generate controversial content. Let’s focus on supporting those that need assistance and break down the how and why later.
this is such a good take. the blame game is a distraction. the climate is changing. we can disagree on *why* that is happening, but we need to do better at adapting to that reality...
Watching the F network, they had three actors and a random mom commenting about incompetency. Maybe there were errors made, but I’d rather hear about that from someone who actually understands emergency planning and firefighting.
She made inappropriate, unhelpful statements to the press at a time when criticism should be set aside to get a job done. The two major issues in these fires are gale-force winds and 1/4 inch of rain since May. No water system or the best laid plans would’ve averted this disaster.
I like the ones complaining about the Red Cross shelters to various pundits and reporters, and you know they're the same people who think that unhoused people (when its THEIR fault) should face drug testing, job requirements, and only get to stay at night.
Is she the one that tells everyone to "keep your furbabies safe!!!" because she saw a coyote six hours ago and tells everyone she heard a bunch of gunshots in suburbia around the Fourth of July?
As someone who was under a mandatory evacuation order Wednesday night the Big Question is this: The politicians told us the world was getting warmer and there would be more fires. Other than making living here more expensive, what did they do to prepare to fight those fires? Answer: Nothing.
You imply we should do nothing. I’m not not an expert at fire fighting, but little seems to have been done to model events to develop coping strategies. There was not sufficient water stored to sustain adequate water pressure. Building more distributed water storage is likely more economical…
…than the human and property losses we suffered in Altadena, the Palisades, and other areas. When humans focus on a problem amazing things happen, especially when they stop listening to the naysayers and are willing to consider new solutions. That’s the most important lesson of human history.
No, not implying we should do nothing, but the idea that this disaster could’ve been averted, or even substantially contained with a small increase in budgets or a bit better planning or execution ignores all of the underlying facts brought to bare by Mother Nature.
Who said anything about “small” budget increases or a “bit” better planning? I don’t think the problem is small so the solutions are unlikely to be small. But if we keep operating on yesterday’s assumptions and don’t look for new solutions we are doomed.
For many years I’ve participated in the public process of LA’s sclerotic government, because it’s the right & duty of every citizen in a democracy to point their finger. It would be a better world if more people did thoughtful finger pointing and less knee-jerk partisan posturing & rationalizing.
I'm unable to find evidence any modeling or preparation to deal with extreme fire conditions was done by LA. What were they all busy doing? Between 2021-24 four members of the LA City Council (Huizar, Ridley-Thomas, Price, Englander) were convicted of serious felonies & are serving time in...
...in federal prison. In a different matter 2 council members resigned in disgrace (Martinez, Herrera) & 2 were stripped of leadership rolls (Cedillo, de León). Mayor Garcetti's political career ended with a scandal involving his covering up or tolerating repeated sexual harassment...
Chris Hayes, Thank you for having Peter Kalmus on your show tonight.
My son lost everything in Altadena.
Kalmus got out of Altadena after Bobcat fire.
Please have Kalmus on again
We all need to hear from climate scientists!
I’m so sorry for your son’s loss. I was born and raised in Altadena/Pasadena, family has been there since 1934. I have at least a dozen friends who’ve lost their homes & many more friends of friends. My 94yo mom has lost almost every landmark of her childhood. A lot of mine too. Incomprehensible!
1) Hiroshima is a spurious comparison. At best.
2) The initial finger pointing isn’t an evasion. It’s an appropriate first step.
3) What are the big questions you have? Why not surface them?
Republicans are foaming at the mouth over this. They are flooding the airwaves and internet, screaming that this is the sole responsibility of the Democrats. I will use my really tiny voice and platform to call this out and send an SOS to the D party leadership and online people to take control. ✍️
Exactly. The Fire Budget was actually raised by 50 million, there is no water shortage in L.A. but don't let a couple of facts get in your way. No place on Earth could have handled this perfect storm of a conflagration. It's climate change. It's real. Coming to a town near you.
For context I live in Arkansas in the Boston Mountains we had several wild fires break out last year but we have a wonderful forestry service and because of their work the fires were under control and put out with minimal damage. What’s happening in L.A. is the epitome of mismanagement period.
and it's an extremely pretty area with good elevation for the middle of the country (my folks retired there!) but come on, it's not the Santa Monicas rising off of the Pacific
Really? You had wildfires with 100 mph winds. How did they put those out with all that wind? Also just checking. Are your forests like our brush? No large wind blocks because it’s not a forest with lots of trees here. It’s canyons with low brush that funnel the winds and amplify them.
Those winds and fires have been an issue for a millennia. There is a reason it’s happening now and that reason is specifically because they stopped doing what was working. It’s cool if you disagree but you’re wrong.
Good point. I live just east of dtla. The gap between the hills on either side of the 110 creates a funnel . I was getting ash sucked in from the Palisades fire via Santa Monica when I'm much closer to Eaton. You have to live here to appreciate the topography and the multitude of microclimates
I am not disagreeing with any of that. Just saying that California needs to change some things. There is nothing wrong with identifying weaknesses and making changes.
Yes. There will be things to learn once everyone is safe. There always is in a disaster. Even one that was so far out of any norm. Those of us in LA are really sick of people who don’t understand criticizing. Especially when people are still fleeing for their lives.
You got twice the amount of rain, have none of the concentrated brush/kindling like terrains, and have never experienced the typical (much less atypical like now) winds that California has during any fire in the last 80 years (based on a quick glance, could be wrong). Maybe sit back and think first?
Arkansas is very humid. That helps a lot. Los Angeles is bone dry, basically desert, with mountains and canyons and now they had hurricane force fire winds.
Why should anyone pipe down? It’s fine if you all want to blame climate change…but good grief at least learn from what is still going wrong here. Sticking your head in dirt isn’t working.
Were you guys experiencing 100mph winds after an 8 month drought? The palisades was one of 15-20 fires on Tuesday in LA, did you guys have 15-20 fires to fight that day as well?
No but doing controlled burns, having better water management plans and making sure the emergency water supply will have the power and water to perform correctly sure seem like the least they can do. Just hope they take notes and make it better rather sticking their heads in the dirt.
The bulk of these fires were in residential areas - not forests - controlled burns wouldn’t have helped. The electricity was turned off in the area where they lacked power because there was 100 mph gusts and they didn’t want firefighters facing the additional peril of live, downed power lines.
For context, you're a hateful asshole whose family has been meeting their spouses at family reunions for generations, and it shows. A wildfire in the Bumfuck Mountains of Arkansas might be a little different than a wind whipped conflagration near a city.
Fuck off into the sun,you fucking ghoul 🖕.
How am I hateful? I haven’t said anything remotely hateful? I said that California needs to do better because they absolutely can…the past proves that. These fires are nothing new, what has changed is their efforts to prevent them.
At their worst I heard 60 to 75 mph. I know I had to chase my trash can and patio umbrella down the street couple of times. The wind was screaming so loud I couldn't talk on the phone in my house
It’s not climate change. There is not a drought…there is plenty of water just as you said. The problem is multifaceted but it definitely started with stopping controlled burns and mismanagement of the brush.
The strategy of the far right literally seems to entirely be to flood the info pathways with shit and chaos. They can’t believe this BS themselves. It’s all a means to an end: wear us out, make us feel hopeless, force us to tune out for our sanity, so they can pillage unchecked.
Yes, as a matter of fact having water makes a difference when fighting fires. There are so many cases of firefighters are watching a house burn down because they have no water. Sorta basic.
Hey great catch!! Did you know the standard plan is one hydrant per 40 homes assuming length of hose and maintained pressure assuming 1 house have a fire per year per 300 homes and 40 homes per residential block?
Do the math and you’ll see why this is wrong.
Reservoirs are were reportedly not refilled and they ran out of water when they needed it most. A systemic failure. Controlled by human agency. Admit it
Not reservoirs. Storage tanks. Which were drained by the FD trying to put out the fire. Just stay clear of the things you don’t know about and ask more questions. Some of us have experience in these issues.
One fire captain was interviewed today. He took the reporter through the physical facts of the fire hurricane, and stated you could have had an army of firefighters, all with full water pressure, and the outcome would have been the exact same. WIND acted as a flamethrower.
Please. There’s plenty of videos of firefighters standing next to burning homes saying they can’t do anything to save it because they have no water. Those homes could have been saved despite one man’s opinion
I’ve tried to stay out of the weeds with these people because I don’t think they will understand. As a retired firefighter I will say that in the middle of a firestorm, the hydrants are being used mainly to refill tanks on the rigs. Engines are not deploying large diameter hose to hook up to
hydrants because it does not give you time to bail if you’re being overrun. You might commit and hook up to a hydrant on a flank or ahead of the fire if it’s tactically called for. These fires move so fast.
When I was young my parents’ home burned in a firestorm. My dad is a retired fire captain. He was home and could not save our house. You’re at the mercy of the wind.
If more of them hadn’t spent their time futilely trying to hose down their own roofs the fire fighters might have had enough water pressure to save more buildings🤷♀️ While I understand the response on their parts sometimes we humans are our own worst enemy..
Yesterday, Tom Llamas spent an hour harping on who is to blame for the inadequate hydrant flows, even after someone explained that there is no way to keep up with that much demand.
You're exactly right. That narrative is misdirection from climate change with a side of blame California liberals.
Certainly climate control is a big question, but that is too big of a question for a state to ask. Even a country cannot without the rest of the world participating.
As I understand it, the H2O svcs were hit with a sudden unprecedented demand from hundreds of firefighters and homeowners simultaneously resulting in loss of pressure system wide. Can we /are we able open our hearts and support the victims instead of inciting fear, mistrust and blame right now???
Thank you. I have lost count of the number of friends and family who have lost everything in the last three days. The reasons people are giving why this happened are just ridiculous. If you don’t live here, you have no idea what it was like. You cannot stop a fire hurricane.
I hear you. I hold you. I live in tornado alley. They're getting more destructive! I understand the fear, anxiety & exhaustion that comes with living through an attack from wind! LA images remind me of aftermath from EF-4/5 tornado.
Hope you can find moments of peace and calm. You are not alone. ❤️🩹🙏
A crippling drought isn't the fault of a state government.
And lying about it, trying to throw blame on everything but the root cause will help nothing.
The fire hydrants work fine when all the homeowners aren’t driving down the water pressure the firefighters need to run their equipment with their futile attempts to save their own homes from fire spread by 100 mph winds…🤷♀️
I know.. I was nervous here in Ga when we had wind gusts and people
were still shooting off fireworks when it was suggested they wait- knowing how quickly a fire could spread.. Can’t imagine how much worse it was with 100 mph winds…😔
Remember back in the storms of 1983 which took out the Santa Monica Pier, driving down Wilshire Blvd in Santa Monica with huge sheets of sheet metal flying onto the streets from above, being torn off buildings under construction.
You mean if the mayor of Hiroshima had been warned that there was an extremely high likelihood of a nuclear attack the week they planned to go to political ceremony in a distant capital and they still left town?
Actually, it was not my insane hypothetical. But a surviving mayor could coordinate emergency services, communicate the situation to the PM and Emperor, and urge them to surrender before another city meets a similar fate.
Do what? 1. Coordinate emergency services: a mayor would rely on staff but make key decisions. 2. communicate the situation to national leaders and urge actions: mayor's staff would interface with state & federal staff but the mayor would do all interface with governor, senator, president, etc.
👍 NOTHING can be built to 'worst case' standards, even government and military buildings, and THIS was as close to worst case as you ever WANT to be (closer, really)..
The fact that you people think that Mother nature can be controlled by man is just laughable , when something like this happens,nothing on earth could control it. That’s why she’s called Mother nature. That’s with a Capital M
Comments
Canadian & Hawaiian fires, Hawaii, cyclones, atmospheric rivers, planet heat records.
I’ll tell u, United States was forcing the world to delay the green transition, stay on fossil fuels, grow LNG methane (33% worse than coal emissions over 20 years)‼️
#lafires
I'm listening to her.
Or just go to a public city council meeting.
All that information is public.
And what actions has LA County done that you deem insufficient?
And finally, what things had LA done right?
Ding city council / city governance where appropriate, they cant control the weather.
My son lost everything in Altadena.
Kalmus got out of Altadena after Bobcat fire.
Please have Kalmus on again
We all need to hear from climate scientists!
2) The initial finger pointing isn’t an evasion. It’s an appropriate first step.
3) What are the big questions you have? Why not surface them?
and it's an extremely pretty area with good elevation for the middle of the country (my folks retired there!) but come on, it's not the Santa Monicas rising off of the Pacific
/s, if it wasn't clear.
Fuck off into the sun,you fucking ghoul 🖕.
It should be.
A car engine’s heat can start a fire in tall grass - embers flying in 80-100mph winds find fuel easily.
Do the math and you’ll see why this is wrong.
1) Climate Change
2) California not having enough controlled burns
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3,999,999,999) literally anything else
You're exactly right. That narrative is misdirection from climate change with a side of blame California liberals.
Hope you can find moments of peace and calm. You are not alone. ❤️🩹🙏
And lying about it, trying to throw blame on everything but the root cause will help nothing.
Beyond capacity.
were still shooting off fireworks when it was suggested they wait- knowing how quickly a fire could spread.. Can’t imagine how much worse it was with 100 mph winds…😔
Worst imaginable.
Surviving.