We need more Carl Sagans and if what he's pointing out makes him a socialist then count me in too.
I'd love to hear a good faith argument from someone that doesn't think the US should do whatever is necessary to have the lowest infant mortality rate in the world.
I am barred by an NDA from speaking about Star Wars. I will say it was not what the public was told. People sacrificed everything for this nation. Some gave all so we could defend our nation. Not in my life time will the story be told. I can guarantee you that.
I think he was right. All the money spent on Political campaigns. That $ could elevate our population by providing Free Education, Free Healthcare. Upgrade our crumbling
Infrastructure. Greed is the downfall of our leaders.
Spending money on the wrong stuff!!!!!! EDUCATE EVERYONE!
The irony is that, while being agnostic, Carl Sagan’s views were closer to the lessons, the words and the teachings of Jesus, than a majority of “Christians” in this country.
EVERYBODY THAT DEFEND PEOPLE QUALITY OF LIFE AND GOVERNAMENT EXPEND ITS MONEY EQUALITY TO EDUCATE Y HEALTH QUALITY OF PEOPLE IS CALLED SOCIALIST ! IT IS RIDICULOUS ! NOW UNTIL JESUS CHRIST IS CALLED SOCIALIST !!!!!
Trump and the current GOP view the world as zero sum. The concept that if I win, you lose. Sagan is describing win-win scenarios. Investing in child care, education. Everyone wins.
I'm curious to see the rest. It's very hard to be science and logic minded and see how bad the US is compared to other countries and say: "Capitalism is winning for everyone!" Number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US, healthcare related costs. Explain that to any other citizen of another country.
I simply don't understand how anyone can argue against this wise and wonderfully kind man. It benefits ALL if public services are well-funded. Yet there are millions of so-called Christians who support a vindictive, homophobic, misogynistic, tax-dodging rapist rather than 'love thy neighbour'.
Christianity, by definition, is mysoginistic. It is a patriarchal religion/faith...as are ALLLLL Abrahamic faiths.
It's why I turned my back on ALL of them. As a woman of 19, now 51, I could no longer support the Lutheran/Christian faith I was raised in. I converted to Matriarchal paganism.
Christians aren't the only ones who support him. There are people belonging to other religious groups: Patel is Hindu, Arab Americans for Trump, Jews, athiests.
But, you're right that Christian Nationalists are the largest political threat.
Religions are just cultural symptoms. They’re neither good or bad. They have valuable traditions and bad ideas just like their followers are - though those are usually not up to the core values.
No, they're evil institutions who by their very nature prey on the weak minded and vulnerable, they are responsible for wars and breaking up families, they divide, that's all they're good for. Some are worse than others, either way, none should exist in the modern world.
Lies. Power broking uses any vehicle that has an open door. Dopamine hits of everyday functions is abusive, abnormal use, but food and sex in and of themselves are not harmful.
Da fuq are you on about pal? Yes believing in a fake god and living your entire life based on a book is dangerous, for lots of reasons. Not sure what food and sex has to do with the conversation.
You do. It’s not the tool but the fool. Knowledge/Expertise prevents harm. It’s usually found in a book. U have 2 read to understand benefits from harm.
I agreed about your statement of the misuse of power.
Religion is not harmful, manipulation is. Mao and Stalin killed many religion free.
“Organized” religion, absolutely. Natural, organic worship didn’t start out as controlling.
That’s not to say that literal sacrifices don’t seem evil to us, but there were way different checks & balances, so to speak, back when.
I feel like you're talking more about spirituality rather than traditional religion but sure, I understand. Trust me when I say I don't particularly enjoy being against people enjoying something , I guess it's what religion makes people do, that makes me feel like I need to be.
This is an amazing interview and statement, and this was quite a while ago, and we still have decided not to change anything. This is why people are angry. If we could lift everybody up it won’t ever be equal all the way, but if we could lift everybody up maybe there wouldn’t be so much hatred.
What was Sagan saying, however long ago this was? It's coming back to bite us in the button! We're supposed to learn from history, not erase it. Ted Turner was and is probably still an arsehole.
and yet Republicans such as JD Vance want women to have more babies. Maybe care for the kids that have been born ie. not having them slaughtered in mass shootings in schools
Not necessarily. Infant mortality is complex and not just dependant on expenditure. It’s also ease of diagnosis, access to healthcare, readiness to vaccinate, etc etc. It is not just how much is spent, but yes, broadly speaking, it is ridiculous US has such high infant mortality.
They don't even care about childbirth. They don't give 2 shits on how the baby is born as long as it isn't an abortion. They pass laws forcing doctors to make patients wait in the parking lot until the woman starts bleeding out from a pregnancy loss.
Exactly, time has proven his point. Much worse as economic disparity has grown and the US economy / political system became Oligarchy. The Top 1% for the Top 1%.
Admittedly, I ought to protested decades ago, but just trying to survive / get ahead.
Now every week 2-3 events #Indivisible
You did the same as me, I used the CIA listing, I figured that would be a good source for data on the USA, according to their figures you're 52nd, actually it's worse than that I took out Jersy & The Isle of Man as they are not sovereign nations, with then included you're 54th
Here's the breakdown. Most people are either Dem or Rep. But there's still plenty of "extremist" who are SO RADICAL that they don't like either party because they are both capitalist and the same coin just different sides.
Those people are forced into a Dem umbrella because the Rep turned fascist.
Not sure I agree, in fact the data shows more people are leaving both parties. Here in MA most people are unenrolled, neither D or R. I also think the vast majority of people are not voting for or against "capitalism" so much as voting for their personal situation.
People don't vote for their situation... Farmers literally just voted for a guy pushing tariffs... Rural communities regularly talk about "lazy socialist" while enjoying more social benefits than other groups. Citizens aren't educated enough to understand what voting for themselves looks like.
I think a lot of those farmers are conservatives who almost always vote for Republicans, but swing state voters who pick presidents voted for Obama and Trump for the same reasons. They were seen as "outsiders" who were going to bring change.
Pretty sure Democrats had the trifecta when Biden got elected, and when Obama got elected, and when Clinton got elected, and when Carter got elected, and when JFK got elected.
Sagan uses as an example of our poor choices the money wasted on national missile defense. He knows it cannot work. “They’ve wasted $20 billion on Star Wars already. If they are permitted, they will waste $1 trillion.”
They are halfway there. We wasted $453 billion since 1983 and nothing works.
We've got to give people reason to want to be better, though. Medical and social security should be a given, considering all the money afloat. Apart from that it takes convictions other than making money to fill a soul with joy.
fuck these old times where ppl tried to make socialism a bad word. this was how systemic greed, selfishness and racism was. during these times you weren't even allowed to contemplate other ways of governance without immense critique and probable agency files being opened up on you. shameful.
Americans always have been obsessed with questioning people about their political views if they sniff a hint of socialism. They never listen to the answers given by these good people, though. They even ignore the teaching of their supposed son of God, who by their standards is a Commie.
Not all of us, Graham. There're a lot of us who have never felt that way. Socialism, specifically Democratic Socialism, is the only way a country as large and populous as the US will thrive. If we don't fold completely before the majority figures that out.
I know there are some good people in the States and some I count as friends but as a nation you have always been suspicious of anything that smacks of socialism such as our health service. It baffles me that people would rather go bankrupt than pay into a national health service.
Because they have been indoctrinated to believe all forms of socialism are synonymous with Cold War era communism. With MAGA, for example, the two words are interchangeable.
Why does anybody give a damn what a Socialist is? People get emotional about words they don't even understand.
Karl Marx used the word 'depreciation' 40+ times in Das Kapital and cars did not even exist.
Capitalist economists cannot tell the American people the yearly depreciation of automobiles.
I feel 100% the same. The people I know who are struggling would love to have a way to be self reliant and regain the pride they feel in themselves and I respect that deeply. He's right. I don't always agree with what he says, but I do with this.
AND, we didn't even get anything out of all that money being funneled into the Strategic Defense Initiative, did we?
But no no no, we can't give that back to helping people in America. No no no. Because there might be someone that gets help that didn't actually need it. Therefore NO ONE gets it.
He didn't go after the arts. His reference to Star Wars was not the movie but the missile defense program started in 1983. A lot has been written on the Star Wars program.
Important context for younger people: "Star Wars" here refers to a government space / missile defense program from the 70s or 80s, lasers may have been involved (hence the name)
In the USA all extra money goes into the hands of the rich. We rob from the poor to pay for the rich. That's why we are losing a middle class and about 1% own more than half the wealth now. It needs a major revolt that hasn't happened yet. The problem is Republicans in rural think it's fine.
100% agree!! Governments are supposed to be SOCIAL in nature. Not capitalistic. The problem started when businessmen started running governments because they marketed themselves as "efficient" - only to prove they do only for themselves.
We are a regulated capitalistic society right now, with the oligarchs, billionaires and the Russian mob, trying to take us to true capitalism. To fight this we need to move past regulated capitalism and move closer to socialism.
This is the battle that is before us. Capitalism vs socialism. Oligarchs want and need true capitalism. The lower income uneducated people don't even understand what true capitalism is like. There is no middle class. 10% rich and 90% poor. I don't think they would vote for that.
They don't NEED pure capitalism. Their quality of life will never change, even if they don't make another dime. They already have more money than they can ever spend. They WANT it because they believe they deserve to live a life above the rest and couldn't care less about the 99% of us "under" them.
It's amazing that in the US the wealthy have tax free yachts and tax free private jets.....
But a worker doesn't have a tax free car to get to work in.
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Wise words. I fear the US has missed its opportunity in this regard. The current regime is tanking us, our days of being the wealthiest nation on earth are coming to a close, because the greedy bastards at the top are hoarders. Greed over compassion has been the marching orders, and now here we are.
I was a fan of Carl. I miss Carl. Carl‘s been gone a long time. Not sure how he has an acct on Bluesky? If there’s anything divine going on here, we cd use some intervention in DC and SE Florida. Oh, and Gaza, Ukraine, Asia, the rainforest, and in schools all over the south.🙏 “Billions and billions”
This is so right. As one of the richest countries in the world we have a responsibility to our citizens. That responsibility is considered a burden by the richest people in this country. It should be a privilege. We kneel to the rich and step on the poor. You are judged by how you treat the needy.
Of course Sagan did. It’s a smart, humble way to defuse the frame that comes with a word that had been deliberately misinterpreted and made subject of propaganda for decades.
I have learned to say not "I don't know what that loaded term means" but instead "different people use that shorthand to mean different things, permit me to speak about issues instead of labels."
There's no perfect system, but I believe our current system can be improved significantly... This video does highlight some ideas that require enhanced review
Video looks like it's from a long time ago, and maybe back then we didn't spend much on things like poverty and homelessness but we certainly do now, in fact we spend the most on education. Doesn't seem to be working too well.
How did high taxes on the wealthy help the poor described by Carl Saigon here? There were very few programs then, no Medicare, no Medicaid, no food stamps or Section 8. Tax dollars were spent paying war debt, defense, and highway program.
It isn’t working with education because the basics of STEM have been eroded in our educational system by decades of Republican control in the individual states.
There's lots of blue states that have been run by Democrats for years, decades in fact. Ever been to one of those big city schools? They're terrible. Boston spends more than anyone and kids graduate unable to read. I'm sure it's same in NYC, LA, etc. No Republicans anywhere.
If only we were not so culturally enslaved to the propaganda inherent in LABELS. If the american people were HONEST about defining WHAT THEY WANT FROM GOVERNMENT, I am certain it would not be free-market capitalism, which has no soul.
Yes it is, if the resources of the many are pooled (taxes) to teach self-reliance to those who are not fortunate to be born into a family capable of teaching it to them. Public schools - if they were actual equal and not based on the income of the people in your neighborhood - would be socialism.
If Americans knew what socialism was, we would have universal healthcare, slave prison labor would be abolished, and we would have high speed rail. Not whatever tf we've had for the last century
You cannot even open a conversation about Communism to an American even if they fully agree with it on a personal level. A century of Red Scare propaganda will do that
That’s why I share my country’s story, which is American history too. At least to me. I even give you credit for the virtual pressure and use facts-jokes like, when Sinatra told Kissinger he knew what to do with Angolans. He was a singer. 🙂
To clarify, I’m afraid of miscommunication lol praise given to Carlucci of the CIA, which is a contradiction, but he was moderate enough to let us do our job, but still stay within the west approval. I think it’s important for geopolitical arguments. But I’m just a observer, semi-ignorant.
If Americans had a real conservative party, we would still have a lot of those things.
It's been proven that giving homeless people ownership of a small residence is more cost effective by an order of magnitude than all the homeless services put together.
Conservativism has the contradiction of wanting to fix homelessness through charitable means without the help of a larger funded government who's sole purpose is to serve society and their needs. Conservativism has a lot of problems like that
There's the problem that your average american can't imagine the social ownership of the means of production, so they redefine "socialism" as either the social democracy of 20th century capitalist europe, or the authoritarian state capitalism (mislabeled as state socialism) of the soviet system.
Yes, that's why I find it important to speak about the policy and means of socialism without actually calling it socialism for most people. Until the US gets proper education, we have to gather people around the banner that worker ideals are American ideals. Revitalizing the Red Necks etc.
The question is almost the same as McCarthy asking "are you a communist"? it's meant in the same pejorative way & more as an accusation. It's always asked by those terrified of people actually caring for others, rather than trying to grab as much for themselves as possible & f*ck everybody else
Conservatives believe their own twaddle about socialism & communism, and have been propagandizing the rest of the nation for 90+ years, and that is a big problem.
If you didn't want social serenity why would you form a government if not for common services? Services like defense, services for the common good? To have a government is to have socialism to help and be helped. But not in this country, the country of men that hate.
Not only using money for the wrong stuff, but our oligarchs can’t control us if we don’t have economic anxiety and desperation.
And as they’ve squeezed our wages they’ve pushed their financial obligations onto us.
It’s all a con.
He made millions off his books and other projects. He deserved every penny, and donated a huge amount of it. He knew how lucky he was and his heart went out to those less fortunate. Take the word back. Make it *our* home turf. I'm proud to be a Carl Sagan *Capitalist*.
I used to think, underneath it all. we were still the good guys. I was wrong. We have plenty of wonderful people here, but also, a multitude of folks either greedy, undereducated, bigots, or a combination of some sort.
I can't imagine why "promote the general welfare" was one of the phrases enshrined by the founders in the preamble to the Constitution if their actual intent was to have the live-and-let-die social Darwinist society promoted by our oligarchs today.
"I sit on a man's back, choking him, and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by any means possible, except getting off his back." https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy
So well spoken. It's a shame the majority cannot understand this and choose to believe that when someone else benefits from social programs, it negatively affects them.
Yes I believe that was his true gift. He could describe reality (good, bad, very bad) in a comedic way that made people laugh. However once you stopped laughing, you really thought hard about the points he was making. He was well informed and cognizant of the realities of the US power structure.
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It's incomprehensible to me that white people cling to the fallacy that their skin color makes THEM automatically good, and people with skin like ME automatically bad. And when they get called on it, they twist themselves into absolute KNOTS trying to justify and defend their racism. It's TIRESOME
I think that anyone trying to do anti-racism work has to start with the matter of toxic white guilt and denial. It runs so deep, and even when addressed once, it's not enough. Like a metastasizing cancer, it spreads and does terrible damage. It needs to be treated as a deadly issue.
I don’t understand? I was saying USA has no excuses why they shouldn’t be a social democracy. All of the other ones are white dominated. They all have indigenous peoples, and people of colour represented in thier populations.
The policies we've created have wreaked havoc on the American middle class, and it's been utterly devastating to our country. The middle class doesn't exist organically - it has to be grown and fed with sound economic policy. We need justice for the middle class, we need to tax the rich fairly.
I often wonder how disappointed he would be in this country if he were still alive today. His passing was such a tragic loss but I’m so happy we have plenty of recordings of him to revisit.
Smart people with sensible ideas. It almost seems to be a quaint, old fashioned idea now that we only have foaming at the mouth lunatics to listen to like MTG, DJT, Musk and JD Mandel.
So powerful and so glad that everything is better now. We are now in the top 5 in all the important health categories, we have significantly reduced income inequality, and we have eliminated homelessness. 😢 Things are actually worse aren't they?
For those unaware, the person asking the question is Ted Turner, billionaire founder of Turner Broadcasting and CNN. Turner sold those in the mid 90's and now concerns himself with using his wealth to empower progressive and environmental causes.
I said dated Jane Fonda. They were actually married for 10 years. He was born in Cincinnati, but spent most of his life in Georgia. Just like another Georgian, he thought about the people more than himself.
If you can find an old copy of streaming service of Carl Sagan's Cosmos from the 1990s, watch it. I fell in love with this man when I found that series on streaming in my 20s. It was remade with Neil Degrasse Tyson & that's not the one you want. Also Sagan was a huge weed advocate with a 160 IQ
He wrote ideas and formulas in shower steam while he was stoned and also published an anonymous piece on weed under the name "Mr X" and it wasn't revealed to be him until he was dead. Marihuana Reconsidered is the book of essays. And read Sagan's book A Pale Blue Dot.
When are they going to listen?
Only when WE all get in their face and demand it. A Few are served by the many; trickle down was the drips on their legs when they didn't shake well enough.
Tax the Rich and Corporations Fairly.
Not a hard thing to understand.
Exactly, theres making people be self reliant and then making people unable to live with self reliance. The US makes it where alone you are unable to support yourself, and I dont mean support yourself comfortably, I mean not even on yourself uncomfortably.
I believe that Carl Sagan may have been of the opinion that " billions & billions" of available dollars should have gone to provide benefit to the people & not get stuffed into the pockets of corporate oligarch's.
After further thought I would like to amend my earlier statement. True in Sagan's time it might of been " billions & billions" of dollars but we are now dealing with the Trump era & the corruption is costing us " trillions & trillions. In my defense, the universe IS expanding.
Comments
I'd love to hear a good faith argument from someone that doesn't think the US should do whatever is necessary to have the lowest infant mortality rate in the world.
Infrastructure. Greed is the downfall of our leaders.
Spending money on the wrong stuff!!!!!! EDUCATE EVERYONE!
The rich getting trillions of money they didnt pay in taxes is socialism.
It's why I turned my back on ALL of them. As a woman of 19, now 51, I could no longer support the Lutheran/Christian faith I was raised in. I converted to Matriarchal paganism.
But, you're right that Christian Nationalists are the largest political threat.
And the majority of what you wrote is historically just plain wrong
I agreed about your statement of the misuse of power.
Religion is not harmful, manipulation is. Mao and Stalin killed many religion free.
That’s not to say that literal sacrifices don’t seem evil to us, but there were way different checks & balances, so to speak, back when.
Does that make sense?
And it seems like they want to make it even worse!
So glad my childbearing years are over.
Admittedly, I ought to protested decades ago, but just trying to survive / get ahead.
Now every week 2-3 events #Indivisible
greed is addiction; the ones who are addicted don’t have any care about how their addiction affects others.
same as alcohol, meth, opioids, gambling, or any other addiction.
Those people are forced into a Dem umbrella because the Rep turned fascist.
They are halfway there. We wasted $453 billion since 1983 and nothing works.
33th in OECD (AHR 2021)
54th over all (USAFacts via CIA 2023)
Anyone? Anyone?
Karl Marx used the word 'depreciation' 40+ times in Das Kapital and cars did not even exist.
Capitalist economists cannot tell the American people the yearly depreciation of automobiles.
He was also highly prescient.
I miss him.
But no no no, we can't give that back to helping people in America. No no no. Because there might be someone that gets help that didn't actually need it. Therefore NO ONE gets it.
*Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality*
Even though he never openly said he believed in God, I do like he was open to the possibility. That's more than lots of scientists will admit.
He is right👍❤️
The USA Govt (State and local municipalities as well) CHOOSES to NOT help the people.
That is the ME attitude on full display. Whats in it for me.
In the USA, people are raised to not care about their neighbours at all.
Government was always meant to be a NON-Profit Business. Any extra money it makes, should be put back into the business of helping the people.
Education, Health, Libraries, Military, Police, Fire Prevention, Infrastructure, etc
🟰Leadership
Or
🟰Dictatorship
Which one do you live with?
Economist Stephanie Kelton outlines this beautifully.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative
Thank You Carl
Do we continue to enrich the wealthy, or do we make a stand for those who can't?
But a worker doesn't have a tax free car to get to work in.
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Of course Sagan did. It’s a smart, humble way to defuse the frame that comes with a word that had been deliberately misinterpreted and made subject of propaganda for decades.
What a guy!
He was a very special human being!
It's been proven that giving homeless people ownership of a small residence is more cost effective by an order of magnitude than all the homeless services put together.
Teaching full sex education and giving out free contraceptives in high school reduces abortions and saves on health care costs.
And the only budget Trump wants to increase.
Republicans are demented.
during the "Cold War!"
The Defense Program from the Reagan Era.
And as they’ve squeezed our wages they’ve pushed their financial obligations onto us.
It’s all a con.
FOX News is well aware of this - and uses that fact in very nefarious ways
We will never improve our reality so long as there is a simpler alternative reality pressed upon our country - profiting from psychology
A wicked ruler is as dangerous to the poor as a roaring lion or an attacking bear.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy
So intelligent, so honest and still able to make you laugh when explaining just how effed everything in America was/is.
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Looking to see if anyone would point this out. Dated Jane Fonda for a long time
He also bought up big tracts of land in the west to just leave it as is.
It’s sad our leaders haven’t evolved intellectually or compassionately.
Only when WE all get in their face and demand it. A Few are served by the many; trickle down was the drips on their legs when they didn't shake well enough.
Tax the Rich and Corporations Fairly.
Not a hard thing to understand.
I wish I had the honor to meet you, Carl.