"Billionaire" is not an inborn trait, it is an obtained one, which is only obtainable by means so unethical that you must inherently relinquish your humanity to earn it. You can't reach that level of wealth without doing mass-scale evil and ignoring, rationalizing, or outright embracing that evil.
My thought is that the panels need to be flipped so we can see the truth: that one was mass murder for money and the other was a single act of self-defense.
There's a really nice part of one of the Discworld novels, where a conman insists that he's never killed anyone, but is told that his crimes led to him being responsible for 8.2 deaths.
Yes, both are equally wrong. And neither should be gloried or celebrated. The first can only be punished. The second can be exculpatory and lead to fixing a very big problem.
Leave no safe space for hate. It is a call to action. A call to challenge those who would spread hate into this world. To expose their arguments as the empty words that they are. Or to, as a minimum deny them the privilege of your audience. Block them as you see fit. For without an audience...
That depends; do you agree we need more socialism in place to right the wrongs of the wealthy? Or are you some fool who say sflowery language as a means to do some brain-dead "both sides bad, why cant you get along" nonsense?
To that argument I have to agree. This has most assuredly done that. And it points to an acute deficiency in our various systems of accountability. Well said.
I think that this illustrates that not all things that are wrong need necessarily have completely negative outcome. But, that doesn't make the act justified.
But we haven't solved anything. The underlying issue remains. But we are now absent a person who despite his actions had an intimate knowledge of how that system was gamed.
Great logic here big guy. One murder vs a serial killer, "equally wrong".
Get off your high horse. Stop defending mass murderers on technicalities. Just because denying claims is not directly killing people, doesn't mean it can't be classified as "murder". Morally, it still is.
If it is morally justified to do this. Then it would also be morally justified to also murder the assassin. And to then murder that person. so on and so forth. This thing was wrong, period.
How is one shooting so morally reprehensible to be on equal footing with the pain, suffering and death caused by this CEO's actions? Isn't this shooting ending further pain and death? Does that hold no value?
It does have value. But if we do not adhere to our code of conduct. To allow due process to proceed. Then we are ourselves criminal and deserving of the repercussions of justice.
All that makes sense when all parties of society are working in good faith. When one party corrupts the system, they break the contract. They broke the good faith part of their social agreement.
This is what leads to such actions. Justice was lost when insurance companies broke the agreement.
Well, that's the USA through-and-through. There is the death penalty - that's considered ok to murder. Also, USA foreign policy is all about murder, mass murder on a grand scale. I don't see any mass murdering presidents (all of them) or military personnel being brought to justice...
In the USA murder in principle is completely acceptable, in fact it is worshipped. The issue is not the murdering, but who's doing it under what circumstances - that where people get punished. The murdering in itself is celebrated. Check out all the Hollywood movies...
I call bullshit! It may be glorified in the movies. But to fail to grant due process is a one way ticket to anarchy. That is the message of those movies by the way.
A court made up of people on the opposite side in a conflict. This ceo would not have had any co consequences for any of his monstrous actions if it wasn't for the shooter. If the court hadn't ordered the execution of the nazis, would you be okay with them walking away with zero consequences?
What this man did was not self defense. And even self defense requires that no other viable avenue of escape be realistically available. And that circumstance are such that great harm, or death are imminent unless the action that claims self defence is taken.
Lets suppose there is indeed no viable avenue to escape the lethal harm or not being medically covered, and that such harm can in many instances lead to imminent death, and that legal&systemic actions to tackle said harm aren't working, so another defensive approach to highlight said threat is taken
Right and wrong are not dictated by math. Both these things are wrong. We have courts for exactly this reason. To remove the emotional element. To have judgement handed down by the impartial. To avoid the cycle of retribution you are defending.
Think on it this way. If this thing is okay. Then is it not also okay to do so to the assassin? And to the person who does so to the assassin? Wrong is wrong. No matter our opinion on what a person has coming to them. The courts are our mechanic of redress. Not vigilantism.
This is really not hard or deserving of all this pseudo-intellectualism. There is no “right” answer, and it’s all up to personal merit. And personally I’m very okay with someone who has killed and harmed thousands in a broken system that fails to correct that behavior to be stopped by any means.
It’s a simple numbers game. That man has killed and would have continued to kill, and indeed has made a killing machine to outlive him, and as much as I fight for a system that will one day prosecute that, I won’t deny a net good when it happens; both can exist together. Anything else seems naive.
The bottom half happened hundreds of thousands of times. The top half happened once. In fantasy, when an evil wizard who has killed entire villages is slain by a brave knight - "murder" isn't the word we use; it's "justice."
Hé was not a “brave knight” hé took matters into his own hands and shot a man down like a dog in the street. Hé had a family, that family will be irreversibly damaged. Just because someone does dispicable does not excuse extra-judicial murder.
It doesn't excuse it, but it does explain it. When people are pushed too far, when the entire nation is built upon squeezing them for every cent and then letting them suffer and die in medically-induced poverty, and when that nation has a gun culture + media that praises revenge, this is inevitable.
I disagree with the premise that the reaction of rejoicing the death and celebrating it is simply explaining it. Read through the responses and people call it justice, justified, heroic, that’s not explaining that’s excusing. His crimes especially regarding AI denying claims are horrific but the
It is explaining it. What you see is the anger of people powerless to effect change for the better. Celebrating the death of a monster is entirely normal. And the man was a monster. His company, and the policies he ordered, has contributed to the 45K excess deaths annually due to insurance providers
I used to think like you, but then I saw how the world celebrated deaths of monsters. We saw people singing and dancing when Bin Laden was killed, and he only caused a few thousand dearths. This man is a leading figure in an industry that causes tens of thousands of deaths. Human nature is grotesque
In my opinion it no longer becomes explaining when the murderer is not condemned. When the murder is not condemned it moves from explanation to excusing it. Not every monster deserves to be murdered not every thief deserves to have their belongings stolen. We should be civil.
Killer should not act as judge jury and executioner and not only that but it’s not solely on the CEO board members and people below were responsible for the implementation and the followthrough of those policies and that shouldn’t be ignored. Will BlueSky celebrate when an employee is murdered?
Let's be clear: The courts and government failing to hold these people accountable (remember Martin Skreli?) is what leads to vigilante justice. The systems designed to protect us have been hollowed out and sold to companies and elites like this 'victim' who kill thousands.
It should not be celebrated. It was not okay. It was illegal. The killer should be held accountable. All of those things can be true while also recognizing the sheer amount of people that have been victims of the same system the killer or his family allegedly are.
And of course the use of AI to deny insurance claims has never damaged any family ever. There are plenty of solid moral arguments against the shooter's actions, but this isn't one of them.
Just because hé did bad things does not mean hé should have been killed the way hé did for it. Yes what the CEO did was atrocious and is rightfully condemned but so should the murder of him be condemned because it’s murder
neither is justifiable and both versions should be tried and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but the law of the land needs repaired first to do so.
It’s been heading towards this for some time now. The victory of a party who is geared towards making money & gaining power for themselves at the expense of others lives. They got a head start when the 🍊💩 disbanded health care regulation in his first term.
I was denied an MRI when I was 22 and had 3 ruptured disks in my spine. W/o MRI, I couldn't prove disability and get retraining for a new career. I was able to make it but it was HARD! Many others lost their lives b/c they were denied operations/transplants/drugs. EVIL!
Conversely, I was never denied a single test, imaging, medication, or surgery and I self referred to a specialist. My coverage was through the ACA. In one year, I had 2 MRIs, 3 CT scans, lots of blood work, and 72k surgery. I paid $90 for that surgery bill because with that I hit my max OOP.
The ACA isn't perfect but THIS is why I support the law. It helps tens of millions of people and made most of the shady (and deadly) isht insurance companies were doing illegal.
My husband and I are entrepreneurs in Texas, and even with the ACA, there’s no health plan that makes financial sense for our family-especially since all my doctors and treatments are cash-only
You job...the one you go to daily to make money....what is your position.... just wondering how high you are on that ladder to success... cos apparently you have a different experience from health insurance than most of America...
My story is like yours, but I got my insurance thru work and I had to pay my entire OOP because of 1 Dx ($6k+). But I’m still alive. Is the system broken? Absolutely. Medicare for all? Bring it. Only time I didn’t have to wait to see a specialist was when they hospitalized me. Docs know its broken.
Australian here. I earn $100000 a year which means I don’t pay Medicare surcharge (a tax if you earn a higher income & don’t have hospital insurance). I’ve never had to think about being denied an MRI.
There’s no way you were denied a tonsillectomy through public hospital system. You paid for private hospital or room. That’s the “choice”. I had my gall bladder removed- elective & waited 3 weeks (told 12 mths) in public hospital. Didn’t pay a cent. It’s affordable!!!
I didn’t say denied. I wrote waitlisted. 12month waitlist for an acute situation. Covid then hit & surgery 86’d for another 14 months. Forced to go private. 5/5 surgeons dont take insurance. So had to pay 6K out of pocket and addtn’l 1.5K for anaesthesist.
Just Facts.
I'm getting an MRI next Monday, covered entirely under Medicare.
I had a shoulder reconstruction in the Aus PRIVATE system this year. My out of pocket was about 1/3 that of the same procedure in the US, and there were no quibbles about denying the service, and my PHI is cheap compared to US costs
Not true. Australian Private Health Insurance is a joke unless yr paying the $800/month Gold+ and even then it has caps.
When you pay same PHI rate in the US all doors are open and all u pay is a minimal co-pay. No caps.
Well my PHI (gold level) costs about half that. And they didn't start off with "denied" as their first response.
And I could have had it done in the public system for **nothing**, and it would have been about four weeks later - I just didn't want to use my sick leave.
Thats not a full picture. You do pay for certain MRIs in Aus. Hv lived in US & AUS.
In Aus: Daughter waited 2+ years for tonsillectomy w medicare.
Friends hip replacement wait time 18months+ & training Doctors ONLY w no robotics due to medicare registrictions.
they should have covered the MRI of course, but if the stakes are that high, you can pay out of pocket. sounds like it would have been cheaper to pay out of pocket and prove disability than to not get the MRI at all.
I was 22 & broke AF. My spine condition was making it extremely difficult to work. When I got a bit of money I paid for good insurance (through a nonprofit org) out of pocket and then got the MRI covered. I made it into new career after 7 years of struggle but I was still ripped off by the corp
I recently had to price an MRI out of pocket, (just to get the results more quickly), it would have been $700, but ended up being covered anyway with veteran's health insurance.
If there's every an argument "well I don't have $700 to spend", we can't build a society around empty wallets.
I had a ruptured disc and it was the most horrible pain ever. I am lucky my insurance company didn’t deny me anything although my surgeon did make me try PT or otherwise they might deny me. What a waste of time.
And as the case of Rittenhouse has proved, justice is ineffective to the point of being perverted.
And no CEO has ever faced the full consequences of their wrongdoings by a court, nor had they have been ever being jailed under the same conditions as Joe Sixpack.
A ton of us did vote accordingly. We only get to try every two years at most. That’s a lot of deaths due to unjustly denied claims between every election. I genuinely don’t think it’s right to kill someone. But what action do we expect people to take when corporations control all the legal options?
That's the thing. Corporate greed needs to be the central focus of every election because it affects everyone. We need to reach the people who routinely vote for the GOP, seemingly unaware that those are the very politicians who enable corporate greed.
I’m not a “both sides equally bad” guy. But real change on this would also require lawmakers to not be funded by billionaires and corporations, which would require laws banning that, which would require THOSE SAME LAWMAKERS to ban it since they are the vast majority of lawmakers regardless of party.
the CEO would be responsible for thousands of deaths if not more, not to mention immeasurable suffering short of death, and all of it done so purely for profit
the shooter carefully and precisely targeted a mass murderer who made himself and others wealthy on the back of those murders
Then how do you propose people receive needed care, and pay for it? Major treatments like cancer and heart conditions would break a family; especially as people age!
May I sincerely ask, however, why a single-payer system never even occurred to you though??? Or are you a paid operative trying to sabotage universal coverage? Or worse still... A bot?! Whadaya say, now?! Advocate for your position!
Perhaps you are not old enough to remember, but this was considered back in the 70’s, and dismissed! As I remember a few of the concerns was an increase in middle class taxes to fund it, who would manage, wait times for non-emergency appointments procedures! Bottom line, yes it’s been considered!
As I think about it, wouldn’t the single pay, government run insurance be Medicare??? Unfortunately it’s not cheap and most retired people resort to having an additional private addendum to get appropriate coverage!
Absolutely true.
How about respect for the lives in their hands, these insurance company fcks.
One day patients will demand privacy, which will ensure women and trans health, and we will pay for our healthcare by the hour, one straight figure, that decreases with insurance or assistance.
The cost of coding all the drugs and treatments into the billing system is a waste, and the medical information should only be shared between the patient and their medical support personnel.
Medical privacy has universal appeal.
We have insurance companies now trying to reduce coverage on anesthesia. And they don’t understand why people are shooting their CEOs down in the streets?
It's like anesthesia is expensive, yeah, we get it. But then again nobody asked them to be in the Healthcare industry. Did they think the price of the gas would go down over time?
I heard, but I assume it’s just a temporary reprieve. One the smoke and dust settles, they’ll be looking to cut whatever they can wherever they can to satisfy their board of directors and fatten their CEO’s wallets.
ordinarinly you would call that "saving many lives" but there is another murderer waiting to finish the killing for them. that's not inevitability, that's just a big line of murderers who haven't been dissuaded yet
1. Hang Him
2. Criminal Negligence (10 Years Tops)
Cancer killed you, not United HealthCare failing to pay $500,000 worth of chemotherapy.
Only liable for failing to honor a contract
At least the ceo died quickly compared to the countless who suffer over months and months dying slowly and denied treatment that could either save or comfort them.
"wasn't a fair fight" who the fuck cares, that's 18th century aristocratic general shit. Either Mr Killpatients was a legitimate target, or it's murder, death and sport don't mix.
(hint: he was a legitimate target, as implied by the name "Mr Killpatients")
I understand your high ground. People unfortunately have egos and when not kept in check they couldn’t care less about the others. It has happened all throughout history.
As a disabled black man lots of people say I don't deserve to live? A lot of trump supporters think I deserve death. Is it justified to murder me, you or anyone fir that matter. Murder is murder
Are you responsible for the immiseration & premature deaths of thousands if not millions of people? That CEO was. He traded people's lives to enrich himself & other wealthy elites. What he got wasn't murder, it was justice. Don't let liberals & simps for the billionaires convince you otherwise.
Those same people think what the ceo did was justified. Heck, that ceo would probably happily watch you die for lack of healthcare.
Fighting back against the system killing us all is justified.
We all do actions that something can claim kill people. Should a pro life activist be celebrated for shooting Drs. Because they believe they kill? This is opening a dangerous Pandora's box
Sucks for the dudes family, but bro definitely murded countless people without looking at em. He isn't innocent. It's a case of a bad apple meeting a bad apple.
Not sure where you're located but in my neck of the woods insurers never look policy holders in the eye. They won't even talk to you most of the time, never mind listen, especially if you have a strong complaint.
Insurance companies never look you in the eyes when they deny your claim. Why is that important? As a matter of fact they deny and defend their position all the time.
Good point, but the law is all we have to work with there.! This person who ever he is suffered a loss, and took a life in response to that loss.! If he has to be held accountable, then so should the insurance company too be held accountable.!
Agreed! I have no idea how UHC allowing an AI tool with a 90% error rate deny claims is not some sort of willful negligence if not straight up manslaughter.
A side from some Civil Sute by this man's family, I think that the DA's office in Manhattan should look into whether the insurance company United Health Care should face criminal charges.!
Yup, lubricant for those pistons and cylinders. I guess that is one silver lining to the cataclytic converter, apparently the lead was not good for them either. The Romans destroyed themselves with lead plumbing.
I think it was banned in '96 but it was being phased out before then in favor of unleaded gas because of catalytic converters in '73. Lead was used in plumbing too but was banned in the mid to late 80s here locally
Seems worse to me, honestly. Thompson may not have killed all of those people personally, but they’re still dead because of him and all of the other healthcare CEOs.
It is the healthcare system RWNJs vote every time. They want for-profit healthcare, which only has to answer for their profits. Until RWNJs vote for a different healthcare system in the US, we get corporate number crunchers that only care about profit.
Neither are okay, both are illegal, but one is a statement on a deeply broken system that a large number of Americans have been victims of. Was it morally correct to shoot a person? No. How many people can relate to why it was done though?
Luigi's manifesto: "Frankly these parasites simply had it coming...the US has the "most expensive healthcare system in the world yet ranks #42 in life expectancy...profits continue to rise while "our life expectancy" does not.
These mafiosa are too powerful & abuse our country for immense profit."
No claim is denied in countries with universal healthcare, as there is no need to claim to get care. You have a need, you go to a doctor and get care, it's as simple as that. And it's cheaper because there's no bureaucracy required to analyse and approve or deny claims.
Wait! You're saying there is no bureaucracy involved? Just go straight to the doctor and get immediate treatment? No delays? No advance approval? Not my understanding of, at least, the systems in the UK and Canada. Long delays. "You're too old for a new hip, here's some pain meds."
From what I've read, Germany has the most restriction-free health systems in Europe. Unlike Canada and UK. But it comes at a high cost. Is that sustainable in lean times?
There are always "shareholders" and "CEOs"; they just have different labels when it's a government bureaucracy. Do you really think no people are working at and running the Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung? Or the Gemeinsamer Bundesausschuss? This is a mix of public and private coverage with caps.
No there are literally not always "shareholders". Not every institution exists on a stock market. If you honestly think all government institutions have the same structure and incentives as a publicly traded company then you clearly don't understand what capitalism is. You're not ready to have money
The big difference is that the people 'running' national health services get their salary like every other people working there, the money coming in is all put into the service, not given away to shareholders. So the measure of success is health outcomes, rather than shareholders' profit.
I love how violent and racist the left is then calls every remotely conservative person hatful racist bigots. Y’all are wild and absolutely hilarious to watch.
Extra-judicial murder is unacceptable. Yes the CEO did horrendous things but creating an environment of fear and murder as a response is deplorable and should not be championed. No matter what happens the CEO’s family will permanently be without an integral member due to a disgusting act.
Police should 100% have more scrutiny than they do and I am against right wing extrajudicial killings too. This should not be a political issue it should be condemned because it’s cold blooded premeditated murder with absolutely no indication of remorse
Are you also are condemning the mass murder conducted by insurance companies and their execs as cold blooded premeditated murder with no indication of remorse?
Yes I have in most posts called the CEO a monster and the schemes they have done especially with the AI claims denial are deplorable. It does not excuse this murder though.
If it helps, just think of it as an act of war, finally fighting back against people who have been killing the working class with impunity for decades. Would that be a justified war?
No? I do not want to fight and murder rich people? I don’t think it’s justified for the proletariat to start taking up arms and murdering rich people they don’t like. I think that’s damaging and will create a culture of fear that stifles innovation and wages. I think the govt should step in.
what happens when the rich are running the government? they will never regulate themselves. i’m not a fan of the whole both sides are the same argument, but with respect to keeping their thumbs on the weights of economic fairness…
Militant class warfare got us the 40 hour work week and labor organizing rights that drove wages up. Power concedes nothing without a demand, and smoking a CEO shows you're serious.
Does not excuse the murder. This killing in cold blood will not bring anyone back but only served his own interests only to serve vengeance. Hé decided hé was above everyone else and was judge jury and executioner. Decided his own wants were above the CEO’s families above everyone’s that disgusting.
It could save 1000s - the back flips by insurers since the shooting reflects that they know exactly what they are doing. Why is his family more important than the 1000s who the CEO indirectly affected? Morally, his death has already paid dividends.
If you look at the bright side, the company just saved a portion of his salary which can now be funneled to profit and increase the shareholders' compensation.
"Thompson had an annual pay package of $10.2 million—including salary, bonus and stock options awards, according to The AP."
As horrific as health insurance practices are, killing random people because you don’t approve is not only more horrific but dumb policy executed by lazy people. Killing and destroying is easy; building is hard. Try @mcuban.bsky.social’s example and build to change incentives. Actual change is hard.
This guy wasn't random, this guy was the fucking CEO of UHC which used AI to deny thousands of claims which likely got many people killed, like genocide levels. Don't fool yourself to think that "actual change" can happen in the justice system when the wealthy can just eat any fine.
As I said. Lazy. Just because you don’t want to do the work to change the system, doesn’t justify shooting random people. I can guarantee you’ve done nothing, zero, to make actual change and improve the lives of others.
There is no "doing the work to change the system" when the justice system and government itself is rigged towards the CEOs/white collar like I said above. The belief that we live in a meritocracy where anyone who dies from being unable to pay healthcare costs deserves it is naive and awful.
Your sentence made no sense. But your worldview of “everything is rigged, so what’s the point” is the lazy person’s case for suicide. Stop watching TikTok videos, go look at the actual blue sky, then do some work. It’s hard. And that’s life.
[2/2] Take them to court? At most they get fined several million. That doesn't work when united healthcare made 281.4 billion dollars in 2023 alone (which is a 12.7% increase from 2022). When you make 281.4 billion in revenue, a million becomes an "expense of doing business"
Not a case for suicide, but an explanation as to why people get pushed that far. Insurance companies spent over one hundred fifty-seven million on lobbying in 2023 alone, no amount of "doing work" is going to beat that when politicians are bought and sold. [1/2]
Should employees in private healthcare be killed? If not, which ones do you think should be put to death. Just health insurance or private health provision employees?
Convenient. You hold the vast majority of human knowledge in the palm of your hand.
To answer your question, the ones setting the policies are the ones with targets on their backs. If at any point they told a subordinate to deny coverage for life saving or even any care, they are deserving.
I can see that happening for sure. If there is human suffering and impoverishment in the next few years. There won’t be enough private security for billionaires as they will be walking targets. There will be no safe place they can go if millions are looking for them😱
Death by gun, death by paper work. Both are murder. But one was done out of greed regardless of the cost to others. The other was done do to the cost the CEO and Share Holders had on other.
I guess this is how we doing Eat the Rich. I'm fine with that.
There are many ways to cause someone's death, such as not taking a pandemic seriously, spreading misinformation during a pandemic, purposely spitting in someone's face during a pandemic ...
They take your money when you have them as an insurance policy, then they take your life by denying you treatment that your insurance should but does not pay.
The rich own and control all three branches of government at both the federal and state levels. I won’t go so far as to say it is right, but death or murder is the only consequence a billionaire will ever face.
But that is enough wealth to be almost completely above the law. Rich enough where one can stop contributing to society and instead just concentrate on scraping income wealth away from other people who are too busy working and surviving to defend themselves from non-stop financial manipulation.
why the F is any one person, let many, get wealthy selling people healthcare. Then deny paying customers the care they were sold so that the wealth POS who got rich denying claims can expand his wealth by denying more claims. Why is United allowed to deny over 30% of claims.
It's uninsurance.
You get charged extra. Dr's get paid less.
Capitalism is the only thing that needs the middle man here. 0 people should profit from human medical care
knowingly taking actions that lead to someone's death is murder, yes. I find the one that creates longer term suffering of the victim to be far more cruel though (the second panel).
Yup. As I like to say, multiple things can be true at the same time. Obligatory "murder is wrong." However. When you push people too far, what do you expect to happen? I'd hope for insurance reform, wishlist is universal Healthcare.
Any death is unfortunate. Do you think the insurance execs truly care about all the death and financial ruin they create by the denying and delaying of claims? (While they make billions in profit). (Obscene) profit and Healthcare should not
go together.
Good luck putting this kind of unraveling of basic civilization back in the toothpaste tube. This idiocy is why Leftists are incapable of pushing real change.
I dunno, like, the day after the CEO was killed, all of a sudden an insurance company backpedaled on their decision to reduce the amount of time anesthesia would be covered for.
Are you people just dumb? Did we not protest Bush Chaney and decades of rightwing murder squads? Do you actually believe murders will create positive social change? Are you actually this dense?
Murder's wrong. That's a given. So. In light of that, what's the fix? Ins co's bribe, sorry, lobby Congress to keep the status quo. John Q. Public is denied/delayed and has no recourse. What now? My answer is single payer, however with incoming prez, things prob going to get worse b4 better.
“Clearly we will just have to gun down everyone we despise. Doesn’t that make all the sense in the world? I mean it’s going to fix all the problems we’d have to live with until we can finally rediscover democratic action.”
Tolerance paradox. Murder is bad until it's the only means to prevent more murder. Life has value and must be protected but when another option is letting a monster roam free it's not an option at all. Killing people is wrong but when they have you by the throat you are still justified.
And friendship wins hate but only until you are friends with literal Nazis. Not everything needs to be "put back". Especially if it was not in the bag to begin with because someone already decided that line was okay to cross and it's been normalised already.
What makes you so gullible that you don't see it's necessary act of intervention? We can keep going as you chose all day but I have zero faith you argue in good faith
Self-defense against those who would kill you is a human right.
We've surrendered in this class war merely because the billionaires tell us we shouldn't fight back.
To strangle the king with the entrails of the priest is the highest calling of the working class.
You use words, but these words are meaningless in context.
Fighting back against fascism is not fascism.
Surrender, as you've proposed, is what fascism wants.
Self-defense is a human right.
War is not the preferred method, but surrender is suicide.
I’m sure you believe this. Fully sunk into the fantasy of the message put forward by hard rightwingers who absolutely salivate at the prospect of being able or to easily justify extreme measures against anyone they wish.
This is what you are currently doing. You’re busy discarding any notion of society in exchange for cool memes about some unknown assassin who for all you know could’ve been a mafia hit. Brainwashed.
You seem to think we have more reason to cry over murderous piece of shit than we had to cry over bin laden. Bin laden is as much murderer as this guy but bin laden by all accounts imagined he murdered it for sake of his people. Still waiting for the insurance guys excuse
You sound like you need a tiki torch. You’re a natural savage. You’ve allowed hard rightwing BS to convince you violence and murder are a means to an end you would find agreeable. You’re just a natural savage.
White people have always been fans of violence which always disproportionately affects the vulnerable, because white people are always the last to suffer the consequences of upheaval.
I’m sure that’s how you would read that as one of the most gullible people on earth who thinks that is the choice. It most certainly is not. You have to be a colossal fool to think this glorification of murder squads will result in social progress.
Do you not see the corollary to oligarchs now and ruling families of the distant past?
Both oligarchy and monarchy result in serfdom for the masses.
There are four boxes used in the defense of liberty
I do, you do not. You take modern civilization for granted and you’re happy to video game it into oblivion for a matter you didn’t talk about until it was in your face.
Oh, it will not. Historically non violent means, unionization and mass action are more effective. You can't fix a fundamentally broken economic system by getting rid of specific people, because there's no "right people" who'd run it better if they were the ones at the top.
But you'd be foolish to think this is in any way unexpected or unwarranted, and that the right thing to do is to yell at those making jokes about it instead of at the people in power who created this situation in the first place.
As a person from a country with a public health system, I believe that leaving healthcare in private hands can only lead to this kind of disaster. Big companies taking advantage of people's suffering.
One of the grossest things I've seen has been another CEO going online to declare that all the reasons people are fine with a sickness profiteer being killed are not really real and they're just a sign of the times...
...because he's British. So he should know better.
The problem is that there are many people with money trying to take my country to a model like that to have even more money. I cannot defend murder, but I do not deny that I hope that this will at least make some people think twice before playing with our health. Not the way, but perhaps an start.
Execution is taking an action that causes another person to die knowing that will be the outcome. That is precisely the business model of the CEO when UHC denied thousands of people life-saving treatment. FAFO
Healthcare benefits denials in the face of horrible diseases or the need for surgery should be labeled for what they are; manslaughter in the name of profit.
If a future HHS director refuses to approve the next flu vaccine, new malaria and Lyme disease vaccines, due to his conspiracy theories, and ppl die from those diseases, then has he, too, committed mass murder?
If you’re making $1095/mo, please apply for all govt asst (while they still exist) if you have not already.
We should be focusing our energies on the true robber-barons and not people who are doing well but pay half their income in state and federal tax (unlike the 3-8% tax that billionaires pay).
The impulsive murder of the Czar's family delayed the Russian Revolution by helping fuel the prolonged civil war, resulting in the deaths of many valuable revolutionaries and delaying consolidation of the revolution. Also led to a romanticization of the Czar in later years.
2. And tens of thousands (if not more) tortured physically, mentally and financially because of denial of care that doesn’t immediately kill them - or it instead kills someone they love.
But management has a great compensation program at the expense of those that desperately needed treatment! Sympathy is found in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
Plus the families of patients denied care and the healthcare workers and pharmacists who want to help patients, but can’t because of this system. How are seniors without family or non-native English speakers supposed to get appropriate care when medical professionals struggle to navigate the system?
I think it’s sad that this apparently smart & decent young man has wasted his life in this way. So much better if he had dedicated his life to fighting this scourge of greed & inhumanity in a more constructive way. America needs a universal health care system & that is the answer.
You make it sound so simple through words. I'm not saying you're wrong or there isn't any who won't fight for it through peaceful ways. However @ the same time I also can't say what Luigi did wasn't understandable. Peaceful methods is good and necessary, but how long until it isn't?
That’s a decision you might have to think about in the not too distant future. If Trump sticks to his plan life is going to be very hard for some. Peaceful ways are best but it still means a lot of effort & maybe hardship.
Hardship many middle and low class who have been alive for a long time have been dealing with for YEARS. Don't be surprised or question when another person or group of individuals do the exact same thing Luigi did.
You can feel the anger about this issue but can you imagine a life of campaigning actually changing anything? If the other side is not willing to engage in dialog and your positions are irreconcilable people turn to force
I know you probably believe that there was a better way to fight the private healthcare system, but the fact is, no amount of voting and campaigning could've broken the stranglehold the corporate oligarchs have on our government and our lives. They literally cheated to suppress Bernie Sanders twice.
We get ignored constantly because we protest and campaign and vote in ways that are guaranteed not to affect their bottom line.
But one CEO gets popped, and they all sit up and take notice. They actually abandoned some of their more harmful decisions, perhaps out of fear of copycats.
People seem to forget history. This is what happens when you push people into a corner. Look at the French Revolution. Look at working conditions in America before safety laws were passed. This is the price you pay when you give people no other choice.
The French Revolution, the rise of the Bolsheviks, the Haymarket Affair. They just keep mashing that button that reads FAFO and say "Huh, wonder what this does."
People will be law abiding upstanding citizens until you take everything from them or you threaten those they love. Don't pretend this is a left or right issue.
I'm not saying the world operates on Lord of the Flies logic. I'm saying there is world history on why no one should be surprised.
The CEO was held accountable for his actions. Our legal system protects monsters like Brian Thompson. When our legal system is too corrupt to hold evil doers accountable then the people eventually will.
Something we should never forget:
Just because murder has been legalized for some, this doesn't make the laws right or breaking the laws wrong. The law is merely words on paper and nothing more.
I very much agree with this. I will generally only follow laws that are moral. If you pass a law with something that is morally wrong then I'm not going to follow it.
Everything Hitler did he made into a law before he did it. It way immoral but not illegal. Looks like America is following the same pattern to the detriment of its citizens.
As a lot of people in the USA realize early in their life, laws don't mean shit. Politicians, Preachers & Police don't care about the law except to use it as a weapon. They have rules for us with a sword & shield for them.
The US labor movement remains one part of history that will never be taught to school children. Every modern right in the workplace from overtime, the 8 hour day to the 40 hour week was forced through blood and violence. These things were not given. These rights were taken.
Yeah, and look what ultimately happened to maximilien robespierre (Luigi Mangione) who caused the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. Far more poor, innocent people were killed.
Legally inaccurate. "Murder" is a particular term in the law with specific parameters. Watching someone die when you could have saved them is not the same as actively killing them. You're talking about a "Good Samaritan" law. That's the case in France, but not the USA.
We aren’t asking insurers to be “good Samaritans.” They don’t provide any medical service, but act as gatekeepers for medical services we pay for & withhold it arbitrarily to reap huge profits, while we have no recourse because they own our lawmakers. They are well-positioned/protected parasites.
For profit healthcare is a barbaric idea. For the insurance company to make money, they have to collect more premiums than they payout in claims so shareholders make money. That should mean they profit from wellness not from keeping the sick from recovery.
Don’t worry, Daddy Drumpf’s Bleach Cure-All will save you! Beware of paper coverings for your face and alternative skin colors and using words to describe people 👻
/s (in case people don’t know, the person I’m replying to and myself are both being sarcastic)
I don’t know what you’re talking about, but I think you mistook what I meant.
I was talking about trump intentionally bungling the Covid response because it was affecting democratic cities initially. Guaranteed he is responsible for at least 500,000 needless deaths.
I loathe health insurance companies and how inefficient and ineffective they are. I cannot stand how they make decisions that affect lives. Does this justify an assassination? No. This sets a precedence to just murder ANYONE in a job / company / organization you dislike.
It doesn’t set any precedent about murdering people in jobs or companies; people in America have been going postal since at least 1986. Honestly, would this even have lasted 24 hours in the news cycle if the guy had just gone in blazing to the CEO’s reception area?
But the precedence set by that first insurance company, to deny justified claims, is ok? PEOPLE DIED! LIVES WERE DESTROYED! But letting people die so that wealthy insurance companies' investors can line their pockets, is ACCEPTABLE??!!🤷
Your mom was right, two wrongs don't make a right. So the many hundreds of thousands of wrongs that Brian Thompson permitted, created, and lobbied for in his favor, certainly are about as far from a right as you can be.
Thankfully, the right person stepped in to prevent him from doing more wrong.
So your mom disagrees with human history just en masse because all we ever do is buckle under until we can’t anymore and then bloodily remove the elite.
Yeah, if you believe healthcare is a right. But the other side sees healthcare as an industry and a consumer choice. So these CEOs aren't murderers, they're just doing what the system tells them to do, and the death is just bad luck or poor consumer choice making. If there was ever a choice.
Do they create the system? Or is the system creating them? Both? I think it's a little of both. The system gave them the power, and they seek to keep it by maintaining the status quo.
No. I didn't mean it that way. But more like, if we imagined a different universe and different system, would that specific individual had chosen the same path? I'd like to believe in the inate good of people even if that is a bit naive. But I see how silly my comment was.
They do create the system. If not for the current CEOs, the previous ones influenced it so the money and power could be funneled right in their pockets. So it's still them who do it, either actively or being complicit by taking advantage of it.
systems are created by people and comprise of them. personifying “the system” in this amorphous way such that there is no longer any real legitimate target for retaliation or ire or justice only serves the aims of “the system”. he is the system. the system isn’t an entity independent of him.
and as a part of this system, he and anyone else who comprises the system, he is responsible for the pain he and his collective cause. arguably the most responsible
Right? I've talked to people who see it that way. I had someone tell me that if we made healthcare a right, it would lead to a state where the government forces people to perform medical procedures on anyone who requests them. Like, we couldn't have a nuanced system that includes science.
Oh, I had to block a shit Lib yesterday, after a couple of days of trying to make him see that the CEO's hands weren't exactly clean and what the US needs is universal healthcare.
Dude sounded almost like a MAGAt, then reveals that he's some cog in the insurance payments machinery.
Banhammer! 😆
Murder is legal as long as you wear a suit and sit behind a desk.
They're immune to justice as long as it can be bought out. The wrong side of a weapon doesn't discriminate when the trigger is pulled
America is the richest nation on earth and should be able to provide healthcare free at point of delivery for all it's citizens... no need for insurance. Works in UK and has done since 1947.
One is evil and legal the other is illegal and completely understandable. Too many only think the killing of a rich CEO is bad. Not the CEOs killing thousands, or the cops killing hundreds.
Do you not know anyone with chronic illness? Anyone who has had their loved one die due to a denial? Are you healthy? Dependent upon medications? Yeap is a weird response.
I still think that the CEO who was killed, even if everything that has been said is true and that makes him a horrible human being, does not deserve to be killed like that. I do not agree that is the way we should go, ever.
But we were able to get her approval just in time. We had even decided for her to take her chemo and then figure it out, but she was approved, and after that, everything went smoothly.
She died 6 months ago, and we are still getting billing from the hospital because she had a 10% coinsurance fee.
She was treated in Spain, and in the USA, I had to fight more than once with her insurance company. The day before her first day of her chemo in the Mayo Clinic, the hospital let us know that she hadn't been approved, and it was horrible. I called so many numbers, talk to so many people ...
Yeap meant that I agree with you that everybody is allowed to have different opinions. My mom died this past June ( June 10th, 2024, to be specific ) from pancreatic cancer. She was diagnosed in April 2023, and it was a horrible journey.
I dunno man, it's like "Killing hitler is wrong because killing is wrong" but hitler killed 6 million so I think killing hitler is justified, so at least he can't kill anymore. The way the comic frames it is very kind to ceo.
I work in out-patient physical therapy. Private insurance companies haven’t increased our pay per service in over 20 years. Not just my clinic, all small businesses. There’s nothing we can do about it except not take insurance & charge patients out of pocket. I don’t wanna just treat the rich 😳
One is a single death. The other is tens or hundreds of thousands at bare minimum, orchestrated and perpetrated in large part by the corpse in the first image.
As someone whose child was murdered by these thugs, I have to say two wrongs don’t make a right. But —and I don’t like this about me—there is a bit of satisfaction in seeing someone finally pay for all the pain insurance companies have caused.
Read an interesting article calling people like the bottom one “desk killers.” We have them in govt, corporations, etc. Fascinating stuff.
I think of this stuff from a legal perspective where most people don’t have a duty to rescue others, so I couldn’t call it murder. But morally it might be even
worse because they’re making decisions that they know will directly result in the loss of life, and their only motivation for doing so is to maximize profits. So I think a more interesting discussion is: even if they’re not the same under the law, which one is morally worse?
USA..Where an individuals right to have weapons is more important than kids and community safety. That is one fkked up society.
USA is cooked..we are watching Rome burn and the Arsonist Trump and his band of selfish greedy sycophants will gleefully see it crumble bc they don't care.
Amen 100% It's hard to believe the #1 killer of children & teens is GUNS and we still can't get politicians to do anything! 45 won't sign anything for the next 4 years! #FuckTrump
I will never return to the USA, didn't realise how stressful it was until I came home and guns were no longer an issue. It's a true tragedy that your lives are colleratoral damage based on lies and selfish vested interests
Comments
Fake News
The former could be seen as punishment for the latter.
Get off your high horse. Stop defending mass murderers on technicalities. Just because denying claims is not directly killing people, doesn't mean it can't be classified as "murder". Morally, it still is.
How is one shooting so morally reprehensible to be on equal footing with the pain, suffering and death caused by this CEO's actions? Isn't this shooting ending further pain and death? Does that hold no value?
This is what leads to such actions. Justice was lost when insurance companies broke the agreement.
well, when the shoe fits...
Socially, this was more akin to Preventative Care - something a Health Insurance CEO I'm sure would appreciate.
Bc it’s euthanasia.
Don’t equivocate
http://reclaimingourbirthright.blogspot.com/2017/05/breaking-down-obamacare-or-everything.html?m=1
Here in the EU we struggle to understand why people in the USA pay such huge amounts for so little
You’re actually far better off with decent insurance in the US than medicare+insurance in Australia.
Had to pay $6K for daughters tonsillectomy in Australia.
Medicare only covers emergency surgery w/o a 12month+ waitlist.
Just Facts.
I had a shoulder reconstruction in the Aus PRIVATE system this year. My out of pocket was about 1/3 that of the same procedure in the US, and there were no quibbles about denying the service, and my PHI is cheap compared to US costs
The cost per capita for what little public healthcare is available is ALSO higher than most other countries. And only *some* people are covered by it.
When you pay same PHI rate in the US all doors are open and all u pay is a minimal co-pay. No caps.
And I could have had it done in the public system for **nothing**, and it would have been about four weeks later - I just didn't want to use my sick leave.
In Aus: Daughter waited 2+ years for tonsillectomy w medicare.
Friends hip replacement wait time 18months+ & training Doctors ONLY w no robotics due to medicare registrictions.
My US Spine Surgery cost $15 co-pay
If there's every an argument "well I don't have $700 to spend", we can't build a society around empty wallets.
That is extreme capitalism.
Our goal must always be true justice, not more deaths.
If everyone who is rightly outraged over unregulated corporate greed had voted accordingly, true justice would be within reach.
And no CEO has ever faced the full consequences of their wrongdoings by a court, nor had they have been ever being jailed under the same conditions as Joe Sixpack.
If someone places himself outside..
the shooter carefully and precisely targeted a mass murderer who made himself and others wealthy on the back of those murders
Not the same
Mrdr on bottom, allowed, legal & bloodsucking extracting wealth. No benefits to human life.
How about respect for the lives in their hands, these insurance company fcks.
One day patients will demand privacy, which will ensure women and trans health, and we will pay for our healthcare by the hour, one straight figure, that decreases with insurance or assistance.
Medical privacy has universal appeal.
The rich fucked up by making bread and circuses to expensive.
2. Criminal Negligence (10 Years Tops)
Cancer killed you, not United HealthCare failing to pay $500,000 worth of chemotherapy.
Only liable for failing to honor a contract
(hint: he was a legitimate target, as implied by the name "Mr Killpatients")
Hint: nothing.
He didn’t look at them in the eye.
I guess what goes around comes around.
The situation is unfortunate but all I have are concepts of a prayer for him.
I would never do such a thing and I trust you wouldn’t either but as you see there are those who are willing.
Fighting back against the system killing us all is justified.
Sucks for the dudes family, but bro definitely murded countless people without looking at em. He isn't innocent. It's a case of a bad apple meeting a bad apple.
or just a bullshit artist
Like, he is far more likely to face consequences than the ceo was.
These mafiosa are too powerful & abuse our country for immense profit."
#NailedIt🔨
Also, I think there should be a lot more people lying on the floor in the bottom window.
Militant class warfare got us the 40 hour work week and labor organizing rights that drove wages up. Power concedes nothing without a demand, and smoking a CEO shows you're serious.
If you look at the bright side, the company just saved a portion of his salary which can now be funneled to profit and increase the shareholders' compensation.
"Thompson had an annual pay package of $10.2 million—including salary, bonus and stock options awards, according to The AP."
If Brian Thompson wants to argue against that he can do so in court.
“God always has a plan “
So… it was gods intent here ..
And in other news..
Two wrongs don’t make a right?
An eye for an eye
To answer your question, the ones setting the policies are the ones with targets on their backs. If at any point they told a subordinate to deny coverage for life saving or even any care, they are deserving.
cant search for something that you have no context for
slow down and think a little more and you'd recognize that
I guess this is how we doing Eat the Rich. I'm fine with that.
Also make Share Holders illegal.
You get charged extra. Dr's get paid less.
Capitalism is the only thing that needs the middle man here. 0 people should profit from human medical care
This isn’t something you can easily put back once it is out.
go together.
We've surrendered in this class war merely because the billionaires tell us we shouldn't fight back.
To strangle the king with the entrails of the priest is the highest calling of the working class.
Fighting back against fascism is not fascism.
Surrender, as you've proposed, is what fascism wants.
Self-defense is a human right.
War is not the preferred method, but surrender is suicide.
That is unacceptable.
Sometimes you have to throw yourself into the gears of the machine.
Both oligarchy and monarchy result in serfdom for the masses.
There are four boxes used in the defense of liberty
We've been fighting a class war, but for some reason only the wealthy are willing to admit it and act accordingly.
...because he's British. So he should know better.
School shooting, gang bang, domestic violence, suicide, accidental shooting, self-defense, "justified" police shooting, war, so on and so forth.
It's all the fucking same.
We should be focusing our energies on the true robber-barons and not people who are doing well but pay half their income in state and federal tax (unlike the 3-8% tax that billionaires pay).
Wealth inequality ALWAYS ends in fascism.
Eisenhower kept Enron Elon’s tax rate at 90%. Why?
Bc capitalism without socialism always ends in fascism & fascism is always a death cult led by psychopaths.
Elons have all the $ so 99% could die
1. Picture : 1 dead
2. Picture: thousands dead.
https://www.reuters.com/article/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/study-links-45000-us-deaths-to-lack-of-insurance-idUSTRE58G6W5/#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Nearly%2045%2C000,an%20analysis%20released%20on%20Thursday.
1. Driven by principle
2. Driven by personal financial gain
I know which one of these feels more just to me
But one CEO gets popped, and they all sit up and take notice. They actually abandoned some of their more harmful decisions, perhaps out of fear of copycats.
I'm not saying the world operates on Lord of the Flies logic. I'm saying there is world history on why no one should be surprised.
Just because murder has been legalized for some, this doesn't make the laws right or breaking the laws wrong. The law is merely words on paper and nothing more.
Legal doesn't mean moral or right.
The reverse holds true as well.
I'm compiling a list of loonies.
/s (in case people don’t know, the person I’m replying to and myself are both being sarcastic)
That's what words mean
I was talking about trump intentionally bungling the Covid response because it was affecting democratic cities initially. Guaranteed he is responsible for at least 500,000 needless deaths.
In Mammon We Trust.
Oh no. The horror. How horrible.
Thankfully, the right person stepped in to prevent him from doing more wrong.
Show me the innocent person harmed.
They quite literally created the system
🤦
Dude sounded almost like a MAGAt, then reveals that he's some cog in the insurance payments machinery.
Banhammer! 😆
They're immune to justice as long as it can be bought out. The wrong side of a weapon doesn't discriminate when the trigger is pulled
Being a healthcare worker is cumbersome and tiring these days when our MAs have to spend hours on the phone for prior autos on simple procedures… :(
She died 6 months ago, and we are still getting billing from the hospital because she had a 10% coinsurance fee.
Maybe his partner was refused healthcare by Brian’s team…..
Wealth inequality ALWAYS ends in fascism.
Eisenhower kept Enron Elon’s tax rate at 90%. Why?
Bc capitalism without socialism always ends in fascism & fascism is always a death cult led by psychopaths.
Elons have all the $ so 99% could die
Never a good outcome except for the profiteers. That needs to change.
I think of this stuff from a legal perspective where most people don’t have a duty to rescue others, so I couldn’t call it murder. But morally it might be even
USA is cooked..we are watching Rome burn and the Arsonist Trump and his band of selfish greedy sycophants will gleefully see it crumble bc they don't care.
Second one definitely is murder
#makesomenoise