The new kroger in my neighborhood has like two total, traditional checkouts. The rest of it are self checkouts, and a few belted self checkouts so you can do the work for them *and* spend $300. Thinking of going in on the Tues or Wed before Thanksgiving just to see what happens.
Glad it saves the company money while I have to scan, bag my own shit then have to show my receipt at the door to show them I worked hard to save them money
Who thought having triple the machines that are running by the skin of their teeth would be cheap? This is what happens when people forget machines need maintenance as much as people do.
Not to hate on the elderly but i think they are a big factor in self checkout not working. Countless times seem an elderly person in self checkout having trouble with the weight sensors or even just being slow to scan and bag their items.
Self checkouts suck.
However the scanner guns you take round the store with you & scan your shopping as you pack bags in to the trolley are god tier technology. You’ll pry them from my cold hands after I’ve been through the freezer section. They also make it easier to shoplift as an added bonus.
a chain (stop & shop) near me has finicky self-checkouts that still fails if you BYOB or move items 0.3 seconds too early. the other local chain (big y) has much more relaxed error detection and even lets you scan items with an app, bag as you go, and then just leave. i go to that one all the time.
My local grocery store (under the Kroger umbrella) installed these AI cameras in their self-checkouts. Not only do they misfire and accuse people of stealing, they recently caused all of the self-checkouts to freeze while I was there. My fave grocery lady is NOT thrilled with it.
They missed the point of what self-checkout should be. It should be for overflow/express checkout, not as a substitute for regular checkout. Our Target has got to the point where they typically have one or two humans working & it's now faster to go to them even if you only have a single item or two.
A lot of variables determine if equipment and headcount save while creating a great customer experience.
Design aside, I think the author forgets or never experienced just how bad lines were at your average grocery back in the 90's before self checkout was a thing.
Data and Society did some really interesting research awhile back on the impacts of these systems people who have to work with them or around them. https://datasociety.net/library/ai-in-context/
Last time I was in a CVS the person monitoring self checkout had to help me 4 times. First to get the machine to believe I didn't need a bag (no idea why), twice because I had age-restricted stuff, & once bc it thought I had 2 of something that I only had 1 of & only scanned once.
I always overload the machine when I touch it, somehow? One grocery staff person managing their self checkout told me she has to help about every other person. After 30 years, they haven't solved the repetitive problems.
Given the option, I don't use them, unless I am literally buying 1 or 2 things. But my CVS doesn't staff the registers; the staff is always stocking or opening cases. So there's just 1 person greeting people _and_ watching checkout.
I will dodge them, too, because they take twice as long. Originally they were traps for fidgety people, plus a test to reduce staffing. Turns out they infuriate most people, and have not reduced staff very well? (Can't reach article.)
I wonder if the 2nd is true. I've seen a few articles that say it actually isn't, but makes a good excuse to close a store that no longer matches numbers they want?
But stores have overworked staff for years, insisting staff be ready to come in instantly BUT part-time. Covid19 has trashed that.
I feel like social media has a lot of confirmation bias. I love self checkout and rarely have issue. A lot of polls/stats say most customers actually prefer it…
I'm waiting for my company to figure that out with the little Nazi robots they bought. So far they've replaced no workers, made the job take longer, only work a shift before they need charging, and probably cost twice as much as paying a human. I'm giving it 18 months.
I call them Nazi robots, because in true Tech-bros fashion, they have a little display that's supposed to look like a fan, and it does from the back, but on the front of the display it's visible as a rotating swastika. I'm sure it wasn't designed that way, just none of its designers noticed.
detriments aside, it seems to me that the most concrete benefit of self checkout might be increased density. with relaxed real estate requirements, it might be easier to open more stores or otherwise enhance the store experience with extra space. for now, though, i'm content with my "fuji" apples
It's honestly baffling that all of these companies have decided to do this en-masse.
It's been awhile, but I was part of a team that was pricing one of these self-checkout machines, and they're very expensive. And, they require a lot of maintenance. /1
Oh hey, remember that week when Sweden's second biggest supermarket chain had to close every shop for one or more days because of an attack on the company providing their internal network, so they didn't know what anything cost?
It sounds like inventory should already be there, but existing cashier's regularly handle situations where products can't scan with pricing overrides, and effectively have to step in and do it with self-checkout today. /3
Finally, there's depreciation built into these machines, security/software updates and random support costs that are billed monthly/yearly and vary wildly across the different providers.
All to effectively save 1-3 minimum wage employees per year.
i also feel like they must have been insanely hard to design (and fundamentally are things that the best possible design is still mediocre to poor) and must have cost the manufacturers a buttload to develop, like just a huge misallocation of resources across the board
It's to save 3 shifts/day of 1-3 minimum wage employees.
$100K (totally made up number) can pay off pretty fast,
and it means that impatient customers with only 1-3 items are happier.
Was there a factor for increased shrinkage? Cuz I know the ones I used in college we figured out a few weaknesses. Not that we exploited them of course.
Absolutely. "Theft" (shrinkage) is factored in, and for some retailers it is significant.
For the retailer I was involved with, they were a speciality goods store so they weren't as concerned (had door scanners etc.) but I know other retailers it can dramatically affect cost.
💯we had one in our market I begged my ex not to purchase (cost was outrageous) was always breaking down/software issues and most folks still wanted to interact with a human. This is a great thread! Thank you for sharing!
In most stores I've seen that have them, they still need an employee to help the customers use them. All that's changed is whether the cashier stands behind or in front of the counter to help you.
Let's not forget the fact that people can, and will, game the machines to get discounted or free items if they aren't being observed. "Shrinkage" increases because of these units, people will leave with entire shopping carts of stuff, so your savings on cashiers is spent on security guards instead.
Management's contempt for labor had an invisible monetary value, the same way white people will vote against their self interest if it hurts PoCs more.
In that case it's great to have, as an option. The problem is you install 12 machines for one hassled employee and then leave just one lane open for everyone else, in every store, compared to how many people who have processing disorders?
I wouldn’t know about that situation—the worst I’ve seen anywhere in the US has been one employee minding six self checkout machines while 2 or more traditional lanes are open.
Yeah, the self-checkout definitely doesn't save my local Walmart any money. That's where I get the best deals on all my anything-that-fits-in-the-rack-underneath-the-cart.
I use whichever gets me out of the store faster, in two countries. In my experience self-checkout has been a *slightly* better experience in the one with higher levels of trust (and social avoidance).
What gets me is being told to put my scanned item in the bagging area, which I do, only to be told there is an unexpected item in the bagging area. Gah!
Rest assured, my friend, it is vanishingly rare that cashiers judge you for what's in your basket or even thinks about it longer than the two minutes it takes to scan your stuff.
It's kind of insane, in the UK no shops are *only* self-checkout. A smaller supermarket has 2-3 and a large one has maybe 10, then there is also regular checkouts. The self-checkout doesn't reduce staff but it decreases waiting time for those with less items
My local "metro" supermarket (ie small) recently removed all the checkouts and replaced with self-serve, with the only manned till being the cigarettes kiosk. It always has a queue for the kiosk. Meanwhile Ive seen more opportunistic shoplifting at the self-serve than ever before. 🙄
I can’t stand it. I refuse to shop anywhere that does it. There’s a local store here that did something similar and everyone just waits in the long ass line for the one cashier.
I don't mind if I'm going in for 2 items, that's where self service has some value. If I'm buying a day or twos stuff I want a proper till with space to pack...
90% of the people who use it are the kind of people who should never, under any circumstances (beside under direct supervision), be using self checkouts.
Right? Have you ever watched a truly elderly person try to self check out a cart of groceries? It's a literal nightmare. Why are we even doing this to people.
Exactly. They're not trained for it, they've not been prepared for it socially. They're better off having a cashier, and those of us who are good with the tech can nip through without pressuring them.
My nearest grocery store disabled the scales at the self-checkout making the experience go from something I would avoid at all costs to a quite nice experience. Now if they could integrate the card reader with the rest of the machine it would be even better.
The folks who make the software for the checkout robots aren’t interested in meeting the regulatory requirements that POS terminal vendors must. Plain and simple, and a shitty experience always.
Yeah, I've frequently gotten dinged by the "scale on the self-checkout alarmed because I put my reusable grocery bag on it" alarm when I used those things, and I occasionally buy (gasp!) alcohol, which also triggers the "call a manager" feature.
I'd rather wait for a trained union worker.
This is really interesting, in the UK the bigger supermarkets are rolling out more and more. Usually one or two people handling maybe 6-8 checkouts. Seems to work pretty well. Almost exclusively with scales and contactless card readers. Alcohol is still a hassle but it's not world-ending.
Yeah, same here in France, increasing numbers in stores and people seem to prefer them, but that might just be sample size and Parisians being Parisian.
Can't speak for anyone else, but as an introvert who also likes to gamify everything, trying to speedrun a self-checkout instead of forced small talk with an underpaid staff member appeals on several levels.
"[Keedoozle] was a spectacular flop—in part because the technology rarely worked properly, and human laborers constantly had to help customers deal with it, and in part, presumably, because it was called Keedoozle." 😆😂😂
They rarely work PERIOD. I see a lot of them in doctors' offices and medical clinics so I understand why they want to use them, but they just. don't. work.
Also, please add automated paper towel dispensers to the list of things that don't work.
The auto faucets in the men’s bathroom at my gym are damn near nonfunctional and I’m guessing that’s why they’re doing a complete remodel. At least I hope it is
In another world, when self-check came to libraries some noted that certain items (books on erectile dysfunction, divorce, obesity, eating disorders...) were being checked out more. Not having a human see your choice has some privacy value. Same in stores?
Canceled out by the way they’re putting everything into locked cases that require you to push a button and wait for an employee to come get your Trojan XLs and warming lube for you
That’s an interesting insight! I’ve not read any research on this in markets or drug stores. It’s quite possibly true, but also the wide swath of other surveillance mechanisms maybe undercuts this a bit? A lot of these machines do not take cash.
There's a good chance people aren't aware of the surveillance mechanisms in stores, not like they are aware of the actual human handling their hemorrhoid med box. My guess: embarrassment is a big motivator
Yeah I don't care if me buying condoms goes in a database somewhere, I only care about the cashier looking me dead in the eye and saying "have a fun night" or something like that.
It makes a huge difference for people with social anxiety, people who wear headphones in public due to audio processing disorders, etc. Self checkout is accessibility.
Half the stuff in many drugstores is in locked glass cabinets, so you have to get an employee to handle it anyway (and it’s EXTRA embarrassing, because you have to ask them for the specific thing personally.) (Hence why I avoid certain drugstores when possible…)
That sounds like a corporate redirect of resources, from checkout, to security. Personnel directly involved in the aisles are probably thought to be a better deterrent to theft
I went to a Coles supermarket to get a couple of items in a large rural town in Victoria (Australia). No people at all at checkouts, only machines.
I never went back.
Fresh&Easy did that when they were operating around here.
Still went back frequently, because they were walking distance and open later than Trader Joe's, and they always had an employee who could cover all 4 self-checkouts.
After they closed, saw her at a better grocery across town :-)
I was in a self-checkout line once - I'm the one person who prefers them, usually - and the woman ahead of me, who had a lot of stuff, was scanning her items slowly, peering at the screen, waiting for some kind of confirmation, then carefully bagging it. I asked if she needed help, because... 1/2
...well, I'm pretty fast at it. 'No, I'm fine,' she insisted, and went on with scan one item, wait for the screen, bag; scan, wait, bag. I dunno, maybe she was checking prices against her mental database? I couldn't switch lines, either - the other machines were occupied or down! 2/2
"I have literally never, as in not one single time, successfully completed a checkout at a self-service station in a grocery store without having to call a human employee over." That's a pretty astounding admission by the author...
I'd estimate that in the last 4 years, I've used self checkout at least a thousand times. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've needed assistance that didn't involve buying beer or wine.
No matter what you'll never be worse than the customers that did speak perfect English that punched a hole into one and tried to use what was clearly a blue screen of death.
I think it depends on the checkout tech. Some of them are awful and I want to cast them into the sun. The ones at Whole Foods are glorious and have no silly bagging area rules. (The alcohol human intervention thing is a legal issue and it’s always been quick for me.)
Right? I almost exclusively use self-checkout because the line is far shorter, if there even is one, and rarely end up having to involve a cashier (and even then usually just for ID-restricted purchases)...
Presenting self-checkout as unreliable and unpopular is the weirdest thing I've read in a while. The labor commentary is fair but people mostly like self-checkout and don't have problems using it, so I'm perplexed by the framing. (It's a godsend for me, since I'm not great at my local language.)
I've certainly seen shit deployments of self-service tech but 99% of my store self-checkouts are fast and flawless. IMO, if someone is having this much trouble it's one store bad at self-service or one human bad at human.
I was reading this like, wow this sounds like maybe Brian Merchant ripped this article off for his new book . . . sounds just like him and the article is too on point.
There is an overhead camera at my ShopRite and it improperly flagged me and had to call over the person to count the amount of yogurts I scanned versus in my bag.
A place near me switched to all self-checkout. A year later, they switched back to no self-checkout supposedly cause people kept stealing things that way. Now it’s a hybrid.
The only time I've used self checkout is when there are long lines and one of their managers summons me over and helps me do it. Which the manager is now doing full time. I get a kick out of that.
I'm AuDHD and I love self-checkout. I can go at my own speed, the queues are usually far shorter, and I don't have to deal with a human when I might not want to or just can't on that day. Self-checkout also doesn't misgender me. Unfortunately, still no self-checkout in Germany 😂
Likely one impact of these waves of automation is in shifting jobs towards white men (engineers, technicians...) and away from women and minorities (cashiers, customer support...). Anyone know of any studies on that?
The Computer Boys Take Over: Computers, Programmers, and the Politics of Technical Expertise. Points out that as an attempt to control labor supply and keep costs lows, it mostly failed: coding languages just created more demand -- but other "professionalization" things helped drive women out.
Seems like it'd cover a lot of domains.
Retail space: obvs loss of positions, but even then, one store staffer wrangles 4 machines, field tech probably deals with many more.
New product line: entails office and production workflow staffing? (Even that though is kinda bourgeoise)
It's funny: when I read the prehistory of stores moving from counter-work to "fetch your own stuff" I guess they weren't thinking of store cleanliness, restock and product "facing." They actually removed employees that "repped" the company, and split work to customers and atomized workers.
And if they had stuck with counter reps long enough for burgeoning tech, we could have seen a world where shoppers brought their lists, used kiosks to make punch cards or something, and we'd barely recognize the shopping experience today. The whole saga is fascinating.
But if that's what it was in 1960, and continued developing on similar principles it might have gone wild places. Like Korea, where you can virtually shop the aisles in the subway and have it waiting at home.
Last time we went to Walmart, we had 2 carts full of stuff. They no longer have cashiers. There was no room to put our bagged stuff bc the space was so small. Then the scanner was so sensitive it double scanned a lot of stuff. We used to do most of our shopg there. But now, we won't go back.
a. It didn't donk up half the time and not scan the item, or get upset if you scan too fast
b. they MONITORED the dang things so people couldn't install skimmers (I had a CC number stolen at a supermarket)
c. they didn't do the "shoplifting prevention root through your bags" of honest folks.
I use self checkout but it is often no faster than traditional since you will inevitably be stuck waiting on some old people who are in awe of the technology
i always use the self scanner and the self checkout especially now that plastic bags are banned in nj, you just scan and bag as you go and then scan the scanner at self checkout...easy peasy lemon squeezy
Wish they would impose an item limit on self checkout.
Not even sure why some folks go with full carts with a ton of items - if god forbid an item shifts, falls off or a kid leans on the scale the computer just goes bonkers.
Just when you think you are done it asks for surveys or donations. 🤷
At least you can press the "no I will not contribute to corporate tax avoidance, I mean donate to charity" button on the machine rather than stare into the guilt-you-into-saying-yes face of a cashier.
This maybe true. Now they’ve got serious issues with teenagers acting like loss prevention watching everyone ring their stuff up. It’s annoying because I used to work at Walmart. These young people cannot even cashier but they’re are going to sit and watch me to see if I’m doing anything wrong?
I love self-checkout. As someone who usually buys only a small amount of things at once they’re so much faster than waiting in the regular line. The fact it’s fucking over the companies using it to cut labor just sweetens the deal.
I love self checkout, it means I can go to a supermarket and buy stuff without having to Do A Shopping Interaction, which is a lot more spoons with autism and hearing loss
I don't want you to use up all your spell slots at the supermarket but also I have almost never used self checkout without being stopped to have a cashier check ID or get a coupon or the ounces are wrong on something and it has to grind to a halt so it can be checked.
I think it depends very heavily on the store and the software they use for stuff.
I haven't had an issue requiring a cashier at a QFC (a Kroeger sub-brand) self-checkout in years now, but I have never gotten through self-checkout at PCC (a local co-op) without needing one (so I don't use theirs).
Funny (odd), but I was thinking about this recently, watching the amount of time staff were tied up in dealing with self check out area in my local supermarket.
Comments
However the scanner guns you take round the store with you & scan your shopping as you pack bags in to the trolley are god tier technology. You’ll pry them from my cold hands after I’ve been through the freezer section. They also make it easier to shoplift as an added bonus.
- the next salesman in the VC c-suite
https://bsky.app/profile/hypervisible.bsky.social/post/3kaznrw2g3o2c
Design aside, I think the author forgets or never experienced just how bad lines were at your average grocery back in the 90's before self checkout was a thing.
I'm glad.
It's proven to be faster to use a staffed checkout lane than the kiosks, but there is a perception that a line at the staffed register is slower
Counterpoint: Sam's Club scan-n-go is terrific
But stores have overworked staff for years, insisting staff be ready to come in instantly BUT part-time. Covid19 has trashed that.
It's been awhile, but I was part of a team that was pricing one of these self-checkout machines, and they're very expensive. And, they require a lot of maintenance. /1
Then, there's the back-office work to ensure that all scannable items are in the inventory system w/correct pricing. /2
All to effectively save 1-3 minimum wage employees per year.
The math doesn't make a lot of sense.
$100K (totally made up number) can pay off pretty fast,
and it means that impatient customers with only 1-3 items are happier.
Wage saving was expected to be 200k. And, “theft” adds to this.
Maybe you make your money back in 6-7 years. Just in time to replace the machines!
For the retailer I was involved with, they were a speciality goods store so they weren't as concerned (had door scanners etc.) but I know other retailers it can dramatically affect cost.
Management's contempt for labor had an invisible monetary value, the same way white people will vote against their self interest if it hurts PoCs more.
The worst part is the part that assumes everyone interacting with it is dishonest, which makes me want to be dishonest.
But I *really* like not having to talk to someone who judges my purchases.
(Spoilers: my anxiety doesn't listen to anyone.)
I'd rather wait for a trained union worker.
They make you feel invisible!
I showed her what to do and she looked so relieved.
Also, please add automated paper towel dispensers to the list of things that don't work.
I never went back.
Still went back frequently, because they were walking distance and open later than Trader Joe's, and they always had an employee who could cover all 4 self-checkouts.
After they closed, saw her at a better grocery across town :-)
or you can't buy beer/wine in grocery stores
either way
Then I checked the author. 😆
Retail space: obvs loss of positions, but even then, one store staffer wrangles 4 machines, field tech probably deals with many more.
New product line: entails office and production workflow staffing? (Even that though is kinda bourgeoise)
a. It didn't donk up half the time and not scan the item, or get upset if you scan too fast
b. they MONITORED the dang things so people couldn't install skimmers (I had a CC number stolen at a supermarket)
c. they didn't do the "shoplifting prevention root through your bags" of honest folks.
Alright, you got me. That’s not why I always buy beer.
WHO TF RESKEETED THIS BLASPHEMY?!
Not even sure why some folks go with full carts with a ton of items - if god forbid an item shifts, falls off or a kid leans on the scale the computer just goes bonkers.
Just when you think you are done it asks for surveys or donations. 🤷
Just say no thank you, you don’t owe anybody even an explanation.
I haven't had an issue requiring a cashier at a QFC (a Kroeger sub-brand) self-checkout in years now, but I have never gotten through self-checkout at PCC (a local co-op) without needing one (so I don't use theirs).
Ballard location, anyway, I can't speak to any of the others.