Exactly. And let’s not forget what impeachment is for: to have congress remove an illegitimate president so that the messy option - rebellion and violent overthrow of the regime - doesn’t have to happen.
we have to create the remedy. Its a work shut down, its mass protest demanding trump is impeached/leaves office. Theres no institutional/political leadership solution.
I believe at some point he did comment on it approvingly as an execution method, humane and all that, aside from all his other thoughts on the revolution.
If I recall correctly they didn’t anticipate anything like the degree of party loyalty in today’s GOP, and expected a lot more home-state loyalty than we got.
Honestly, even party loyalty would be helpful here. Republicans interested in not smashing their entire project on the rocks for the next several decades. Instead they are all consumed by personalist loyalty to the mad whims of one man.
Donald Trump co-opted the Republican Party years ago. At this point there’s no distinction between GOP party loyalty and loyalty to Trump. That could change but right now it’s the grim reality we live in.
The framers didnʻt foresee the party system. And the power of social media (although the newspapers back then were quite vocal). The fact that many voters have poor education in civics and critical thinking? . A lot has changed since the 18th century.
Yes and no. Most countries do have a written constitution they refer back to to settle this kind of thing, but most of those constitutions are a lot newer than ours because they came about in the latter half of the 19th century or sometime in the 20th century.
They were trying to offer non-violent solutions to political problems. Unlike what usually happens. Points for trying, and it worked mostly okay for 250 years.....
Congress had two opportunities and the Senate failed its duty. The SC had two opportunities as well and also failed. Two branches just caved. Cowards all.
Against an unelected monarch across the ocean. The Second Amendment fanatics have long argued that the amendment was meant to preserve the people’s right to effect an armed coup against the government. I wonder if they’d now admit that this only applies in their minds to Democratic governments.
In the vein, I am sure the founders never envisioned one of the three independent branches of government totally submitting itself to the will of one of the other branches
That’s true. Washington had no party, though his closest followers largely became the Federalists, including Adams, while Presidents #3-5 (from Virginia) became the Democratic-Republicans.
Not exactly; Washington, Hamilton, and Jefferson all warned us about the dangers of political parties and factions. We just didn’t listen, and now we’re in an era where history’s lessons don’t matter and we’ll have to re-learn them.
"I will end the war in 24 hours" was a hoax. The election was built on fraud. Promises that were never meant to be kept. Our current administration's power is based on fraud. Republicans are not in an honest relationship with the American citizens.
Our Justice system played a BIG PART in getting our Country into the TROUBLE it's in because they FAILED to hold the BIGGEST CRIMINAL in America ACCOUNTABLE!😡
All true. Urge the US Supreme Court to reverse presidential immunity in a prewritten email I researched and wrote: “Uphold the Constitution and Restore Accountability” …
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True it is not impossible, but the key would be what does it gain trump.
There it gained him brown shirts, more or less. After the end of his term, does pardoning the non violent administrative staff that he may be pissed at for not being sufficiently zealous by that time gain him?
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Vote in every small election and get the destroyers out. Don't stop fighting for the rule of law, peace, democracy and honesty. We in the rest of the world are rooting for you.
Yes. This is why the Founders devised remedy for this is in the hands of Congress.
Congressional majority could stop this authoritarian nightmare right now, if they so wish. But House MAGA Republicans aren't lifting a finger to stop it... Instead, they support Trump's administration & his actions.
Difficult, but not impossible and a guy like Trump makes it so easy due to his reputation by now. Plus Trump is so unliked by the majority of Americans and most average Americans feel he is long overdue for consequences.
It’s equally as hard to understand that lawyers aren’t doubling down and going to war. This would be my dream scenario and all I do is work as a legal analyst.
Apparently the AG can shut down criminal contempt enforced by US Marshall's *but* if furious enough courts can deputize anyone of their chosing to enforce civil contempt directly ...
Key SC quote: "If a party can make himself a judge of the validity of orders which have been issued, and by his own act of disobedience set them aside, then are the courts impotent, and what the Constitution now fittingly calls ‘the judicial power of the United States’ would be a mere mockery.”
Sure. That's what they'd like you to believe. Doing nothing because you think it's pointless is exactly what he wants and why it's necessary to take action anyway
Even if they can't touch Trump (and we don't know that - his immunity is actually limited) you can still lock up some of his lawyers
I'm not saying they shouldn't try. But he blanket pardoned thousands of J6ers, I have no doubt that he would instantly pardon anyone on his team arrested for anything anywhere.
Which itself would be further abuse of power and further grounds for impeachment - or some other action since impeachment seems unlikely with Republicans gone all in with the fascism. Black hat thinking has its place, but not if it stops you taking action
You mean acting like criminals? If the guy in the Whitehouse isn't acting like president he doesn't get the benefit of presidential deference. 232 years of presidential decorum as precedent ought to be enough of an example. (236 years since George Washington less felon dump's previous term)
“Don’t do that.” Hand slap.
“Don’t do that.” Hand slap.
Meanwhile… vague gesture “this”.
They need to be dragged out, handcuffed and taken to something worse than El Salvador. Treason. Insurrection. Domestic enemies. The only thing that is going to stop them is physical removal, then charge them
It is. I’m old enough to have been before some solid Midwestern Federal judges who would give a warning and then say, “marshals, escort Mr. Smith to the jail on the top floor for the rest of the day”. People changed their behavior.
This is the key point. I see so many people trying to say how if the constitution was this or that then these things couldn't happen, but you can't legislate away bad faith.
Well, it doesn't help that the courts seem inexplicably unwilling to actually wield the considerable penalties they DO have the power to bring to bear... like, say, arresting the assholes lying to their faces for contempt and locking them up until they feel a little more cooperative?
First of all, he doesn't give a shit about low level grunts. Second, even if he does take the time to pardon them, that's time he's wasting on petty officials he's NOT spending enacting other shitty policies. Time he's not off golfing on our dime.
It's about damn time we cause some disruption, no?
The courts accommodating such ppl and creating rules to placate them instead of making them abide by the law is how we got qualified immunity. Those strategies worked to defenestrate meaningful accountability for police and prosecutors, and now they're replicating them in every area of law.
Exactly! The republicans in congress and a lot of the justice system are just acting like the constitution is merely recommendations rather than the foundation our entire government system was built on, and it is horrifying!
Oh, of course, that is the other incorrect way to govern. The founding fathers built the process of amending the constitution into the constitution specifically to correct flaws and close oversight gaps, but it needs to be updated in congress, it can’t just be ignored when inconvenient.
When SCOTUS can't be trusted to speak clearly that this administration is wrong, and we're nowhere near having 20 GOP Senators + some House Reps to do the right thing and impeach and convict Trump (and Rubio and make it clear that Miller has to go and...)
The *best case scenario* is Abrego Garcia is repatriated and we still have a government who sent him to the gulag, tried to keep him there, and resisted legitimate legal process
This isn’t over until Trump2.0 is over and repudiated
The good news is that Trump is doing his best to destroy Trump's reputation and MAGA; that his actions are so reprehensible and destabilizing there will be a vast amount of people likely angry at him and the republican party.
The bad news is it doesn't just affect trump voters....
The BAD news is Rump isn't planning on letting us vote, IMO. It's gonna have to be General Strike or similar, to convince GOP to ditch him and Vance... have no idea if there's a sane GOP alternative candidate. I don't want Johnson; they won't let Jeffries take House lead.
Watch Fox News for 10 minutes and you will discover that MAGA doesn't have a clue what's going on. They blame the Dems. Your theory is incorrect. All of us will be affected but only 70% will understand.
Fox News is ignoring the whole "anyone can be thrown into a foreign prison for wearing a Chicago Bulls cap" thing and getting upset that Joe Biden is still able to talk to people. Let's them recap every anti-Biden thing they can think of. The sheep will never know what is happening.
Oh I agree the shield of BS is very tough to crack... Again it has to hit more, including fox news people, for Fox to stop spinning so much.. You see small bits of that now.
The performative BS has a weakness. It works for low information voters, but if enough actual pain comes to them, well most will blame Biden, but some will notice.
You guys talk like we are gonna be voting again. This whole farce of a government needs to die. Do you all really want to keep this system? The system that was easily bought and goatfucked by billionaires?
By summer's end, this approval % will have fallen dramatically as prices rise, consumer goods become scarce, and the value of our almighty dollar tanks as US bonds are sold off. The world is angry and disgusted with Trump. They are actually the ones who will be the American people's greatest ally.
I suspect his floor is probably ~25-28%. Right around where Nixon’s was. Even some of his core supporters will abandon him if they ever believe he is losing or weak.
Doesn't care about the penalties the courts are *willing* to offer, really. They know the courts won't put them in jail so what penalties could there possibly be?
I assisted with a case where the threat of criminal contempt was the only thing that kept one of the parties from openly defying a court order. Their attorney had to tell them in a public meeting, on record, that they would go to jail for refusing to comply.
What penalties? And how can the court enforce them? DOJ isn’t on their side. You can’t imprison the President so what penalties? Monetary? So the people will pay the penalties? I’m so lost.
As hard as acknowledging that, with funding from Musk and Putin, Trump has staged a coup? And he did it with the complicity of every Republican in Congress enabled by 6/9 of the corrupt Roberts SCOTUS?
In regular litigation this behavior would easily have been stopped by financial sanctions. And even in criminal law by the threat of a directed verdict.
Ex parte Young ascendant. A government actor who fully disregards a co-equal branch’s authority is acting extra-constitutionally and therefore in their personal capacity
If it walks like a dictator and talks like a dictator,
Then it’s a dictator!
If it’s rules give it complete control,
Then it’s a dictator!
If it ignores the highest court in the land,
Then it’s a dictator!
If it sends non criminals away to be locked up,
Then it’s a dictator!
They really have taught us all that none of these laws matter, and it’s all a house of cards. I guess we always could have assumed that the executive branch could just ignore the other 2, we just never saw it in practice. We’re cooked.
It's terrible that some people keep encouraging ordinary non-law ppl to think this is gonna achieve anything. The judge isn't taking appropriate action because she's quite feasibly afraid of a violent response from Trump. So until there's somebody who's gonna fight Trump no one's gonna do anything.
Sorry. That was esoteric BS (I try not to do that). 42 USC 1983 lets us use constitutional rights as a sword instead of shield. Just means civil rights lawsuits against state actors (not feds).
It isn’t clear this would DO anything though. The Govt. might refuse to jail him. Trump might pardon him. We are in a full blown constitutional crisis and there is no obvious way out. The fight should be between Trump and the Supremes and not subordinate proxies.
At the very least, you can't pardon civil contempt (which is what we're talking about at this point). And I mean, the US Marshals are supposed to listen to the district court, although we'll see how that goes.
There is not the slightest chance any US Marshal in this administration will arrest a DoJ employee for conducting administration policy, no matter how illegal.
Hmmm- this reminds me of when I couldn't afford the fees for a sheriff to serve divorce papers so my best friend at the tine said she would do it. Worked perfectly. To this day we remain divorced !
The last I heard was the Supremes saying its unconstitutional and the executive branch needs to facilitate his return..and Donlione retorting Make Me...soo its between those parties..and whatever enforcement parties are needed
It shows a grave weakness in our system frankly. And as I've said before 2 against 1 isn't equal - and it's really more than that - I'd say 2.5 (Exec, Congress - because R majority in both houses - , and half the judicial) against .5. We no longer actually have co-equal branches for our government
The courts need to grow some balls and start using detention as the first line of sanction. People don’t take shit seriously until they have felt the sting.
trump's court experiences to date have done very little to suggest to him that he needs to do what the court says. Add SCOTUS' idiotic ruling about immunity and we have the perfect storm.
The state has no problem with this in criminal trials all the time. There are remedies for that type of party, it’s just the will to use them against what is supposed to be the rational adult in the courtroom. But this behaviour means things can change fast.
I think that Federal District Court judges should hire onto their staffs court officers (NOT Federal Marshalls) well trained in restraining prisoners, especially contemptors who are AUSAs & US Attorneys. Just hold them until the government honors the court's orders. Or forever, whichever comes first
I wonder what gave Dear Leader the idea he could defy the court? Was it the Supreme Court ruling that said presidential acts were legal? Was it his pardon powers? Was it all the times he dragged out the legal case? Was it his numerous litigations...
It is not possible- i.e., not "very hard," but impossible- to fight thugs through legal or security enforcement channels when they have filled both with quislings. Throw down your tools, shut down society and march daily, or simply await your trip to the new American Gulag.
If your opponent is "gaming the game" and there are no consequences for doing so, you will not defeat them by following the rules. You will only feel morally superior in your losers' chair.
The bottom line is Trump & Co. believe that SCOTUS is their ace in the hole and will never truly hold them accountable. None of this gets fixed unless John Roberts grows a pair and joins up with Barrett (who I think really is on Team Democracy), Kagan, Sotomayor, and Jackson to smack Trump hard.
That's because White Christian Nationalists, aka Nazis, don't deserve any kind of legal or judicial loopholes to jump through to circumvent their crimes against Humanity...
They only deserve a baseball bat to their 💀, so do your job as a good upstanding citizen, and get to swingin' for the fences
Yeah, it's crazy. If a pleb disobeys a court order, they spend a night in jail, at the bare minimum. Why has no one seen any consequences for this clear contemptuous behavior?
For heaven's sake! This horde of cutthroat barbarian pirates is not a party. Thus, litigation is absurd.
Like with pirates who board your ship, you either fight them to the death and throw them overboard or suffer the consequences. There is no middle ground or rules.
Because this isn't a political party, it's a criminal conspiracy that lied to followers of a political party prior to an election. Stole their party away! Many recognize it, some never will. The economic pain may force change, but we don't have much time before paid militia appear on our streets.
Comments
(I mean Jefferson might've gone for it)
Does any other country constantly look back to a 200 year old document to determine what to do in everyday situations?
You guys talk enough about it that I, a non-USian, know what most of the main amendments are.
Btw, just returned to Ohio after 25 years. This state is an absolute disgrace.
I cannot believe Metzenbaum once ruled here.
General Strike time
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You’re mistaken.
There it gained him brown shirts, more or less. After the end of his term, does pardoning the non violent administrative staff that he may be pissed at for not being sufficiently zealous by that time gain him?
Congressional majority could stop this authoritarian nightmare right now, if they so wish. But House MAGA Republicans aren't lifting a finger to stop it... Instead, they support Trump's administration & his actions.
https://www.doge.gov/
#handsoff 50501 #womensmarch
#fightfascism #fdt #fuckmusk
50501 Movement
5calls.org
HandsOff Organization
I believe there was an impact yesterday who did a general strike. Waiting for the coverage of effectiveness.
Trump is showing off power. He wants the world to see that he can and will do all manner of things.
He doesn’t care if one or all of them are challenged in court and he loses. That happens years later.
https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion/if-the-marshals-go-rogue-courts-have-other-ways-to-enforce-their-orders/
Even if they can't touch Trump (and we don't know that - his immunity is actually limited) you can still lock up some of his lawyers
“Don’t do that.” Hand slap.
Meanwhile… vague gesture “this”.
They need to be dragged out, handcuffed and taken to something worse than El Salvador. Treason. Insurrection. Domestic enemies. The only thing that is going to stop them is physical removal, then charge them
Americans must make calls to MAGA and Dems to the tune of 100,000,000 to impeach and remove.
Stay calm. Don't give him military authority over us
WOMEN KNOW WHAT TO DO
... it's no longer litigation. It's a game of Chicken.
Run the line.
It's about damn time we cause some disruption, no?
That and the obvious disparity for those with wealth and power in general.
If only those wealthy, powerful, criminals would have changed the system to better prosecute themselves.
The problem here is that the Judicial Branch doesn't have its own Marshal Service
This isn’t over until Trump2.0 is over and repudiated
The bad news is it doesn't just affect trump voters....
It is the only language they understand.
Also, the courts can empower a local police force - not under DOJ control - to jail someone, if necessary.
Keep the faith.
🏆💯
But laws and institutions will not save us from what's coming. Hope everyone is preparing.
In regular litigation this behavior would easily have been stopped by financial sanctions. And even in criminal law by the threat of a directed verdict.
Brought to you by the SCOTUS that was compromised with a used RV and went downhill ever since.
Then it’s a dictator!
If it’s rules give it complete control,
Then it’s a dictator!
If it ignores the highest court in the land,
Then it’s a dictator!
If it sends non criminals away to be locked up,
Then it’s a dictator!
Can the courts compel ANYTHING of consequence?
Or is the failsafe envisioned by the Founding Fathers the tool they used: Revolution?
How about the courts DEMAND their penalties be enforced.
How bout that?
the courts can on the crisis
is crucial for our survival
as a free democratic society.
They only deserve a baseball bat to their 💀, so do your job as a good upstanding citizen, and get to swingin' for the fences
that's the point, he's ALREADY A FELON.....
HOW are you going to save your people?
🍁🛶❤️💙💚🔬⚖️🌻🌻🌻✊
Like with pirates who board your ship, you either fight them to the death and throw them overboard or suffer the consequences. There is no middle ground or rules.