Most of them have been changing sides since the debacle between Trump in the Red (under the bed) corner and Zelinskyy in the Blue and Yellow corner. They may have realised, unlike Less Trust & Fromage, what they have been getting behind.
It's as if this has all happened just before the US Right were able to fully bring the UK Right on side and tip their consensus over to an anti-Ukraine one, and now a broader schism looks possible.
Hannan should be deplatformed and ignored regardless of which side of the line he is on. Not reassuring to have Mr Always Wrong edging toward my positions.
The past can't be changed. There is no value in bitterness or recriminations or told-you-so's that might drive them back, when such stakes are on the table. If they have genuinely changed their minds, then that is to be welcomed.
History will judge their choices. That should be enough.
Bit of a contradiction here - if no one expresses/acts on bitterness then what does history have to judge? History - if it involves any judgement - *is* people criticising actions.
> If they have genuinely changed their minds, then that is to
> be welcomed.
I don't disagree with this ... but I think the most obvious measure of whether someone has "genuinely changed their mind" is whether they can handle other people's bitterness/recriminations.
If, instead, other people's recriminations/bitterness/honest statements could cause them to be "driven back" then I don't think you can say they've genuinely changed their minds.
There are circumstances where you avoid eye contact and say nothing critical because the other party is holding a gun - if the guy holding you hostage says they feel regret you maybe don't point out that they haven't quite admitted any personal error/acted to change the situation.
I wouldn't trust the scrote further than I could throw him, but I am pleased to see the extent to which the British loony right is nervously edging away from Trump.
Even if it's only due to fear of public opinion, that in itself is a win for the rest of us.
At some point one of these guys is going to write a piece about getting closer to Europe and make the following points:
1) Ukraine
2) Europe is becoming more right wing (Meloni etc)
3) Help to shift the EU towards a more *free markets* inclination
Thanks to Brexit, the gravity of the EU has shifted, away from the stuffy liberal nannies and towards the get things done right wing free traders. Now is the right time to rejoin, and throw our heft behind the change. We can make a success of Rejoin, as we did Brexit.
If the Tories survive till, say, 2032 they could be saying: 'cut out the red tape, boost free markets, Britain showing the EU how it should be done, Brexit showed them we meant business now they want us back'.
(Meanwhile Labour have gone all Bennite again and reject the EU as a 'capitalist club'.)
If only there was a coalition of the willing who would agree to reduce barriers to trade amongst each other, with common enforceable rules governing how that would work
Lord knows. We are in uncharted territory. The only thing Trump could do now to save the British Right's face is go "Surprise! I was never actually going to throw Ukraine under a bus, but look how I made Europe step up!"
The Cummings Manoeuvre: "it looked stupid & was stupid but I planned it all."
The trouble for Trump is that he may have already crossed the Rubicon, without intending to. Anyone who thought a more experienced leader would emerge in his second term has been dashed. A more vengeful man is in charge. EU may sideline him, regardless.
Roberts,Hannan, and Co are getting an FDR "Day that will live in infamy" pretty much every few days, so even a very right-wing historian can't shrug that off.
How do these people manage to hold down their various writing/commentating positions, being paid very well for them, along with the notoriety they pick up along the way, when they just get everything they put out so wrong, how?
Any publication that pays Hannon to write for it must be immediately discounted. Why would anyone publish the ravings of someone who made such confident predictions about Brexit that have aged like milk. Every single thing he predicted was wrong.
They are all over the place...tells you all you need to know about the critical reasoning of the Hannan's and Carswell's and their brand of rightwing politics
It is a measure of Trump's crazy antics that the British Right is now all over the place. To think they imagined Trump would be Brexit's saviour. Morons.
They just thought he would take up where he left off four years ago, when Johnson was PM, and they were almost within touching distance of their longed-for ‘no deal’ Brexit.
Its because all they care about is money. Cost of everything, value of nothing people. The Singapore on Seas, lazy Brits, off shore accounts view of the Brexiteers - wasnt socereignty or rights at all. They would have the UK as a US state
well it is influenced by the far right in the US of course ... but they misjudged the brits, they really thought I think 52% who voted for brexit would also agree with Trump didn't they ?
I notice Konstantin and Douggy C's reaction is to stand around tutting at the previous cowboys who definitely weren't them, coming in and wrecking the place, which they definitely haven't done.
Yes, but Trump will probably be even more dangerously unhinged by then, and so their previous support for him will be a constant stain that they constantly gave to overcome ?
Trump is for Trump and anyone that thinks otherwise needs to give their heads a wobble 🤦♂️🤦♂️ he was POTUS in 2016 no trade deal and now no trade deal . . . he does hold most of the cards when it comes to a deal we must look to move closer to the EU we cannot afford to lose billions in trade every year
As an EU person: I hope to have stronger bonds with the UK again.
Not because of money (my country actually got extra jobs since some companies/organizations moved here after Brexit) but because of our former closeness and also the way the UK stands up for Ukraine, which is awesome
Fascinating. He is usually so predictable and occupies that small space of Brexit cheerleading/Telegraph miserablism. This is new. And very telling as he is kind of a bellwether for much of the right.
Brexiteers have very little self-awareness. He promoted Putin's main foreign policy of Brexit, which was part of the overall Russian plan to destabilise Europe and invade Ukraine (according to Dugin), and yet Hannan, like most Brexiteers, takes no responsibility for the outcome of his actions.
I'm starting to seriously worried. Agree with Hannan's post, and also Douglas Murray's column regarding Trump and Ukraine in the Spectator this week (read it in WH Smith earlier, would never spend money to read the thoughts of him and others in that publication).
that's because they are the Party of rebellion, they only know what they don't want but no clue on how to fix it, like an overtired child there will be no pleasing them whatsoever
Just look at Germany’s recent elections. Thanks to the South African X lunatic and creepo Shady Vance interfering, the far right party will be an opposition force in the new gvt.
This is the little shit who said those who died in the Grenfell fire died because they lacked common sense. His opinion shouldn’t be sought on any subject, ever again.
Wonder whether this reflects in part the failures of the likes of Farage, Braverman, Truss etc to get any facetime with Trump or his people. They were utterly ignored at the inauguration and since then. An insular US (ignoring Musk's global agenda) isn't interested in them, hence their outrage.
Media clips and old newspaper columns are no friend to Hannan. But the shameless grifter is in the Lords for doing nothing but grifting. Taxpayer funded for
life.
Hannan has made a career, and probably a fortune, by being wrong on absolutely everything. Quite an achievement, almost like the football manager who gets repeatedly sacked, trousers a huge payoff, and then turns up at another club with a fat contract worth millions. Then, repeat ad infinitum.
Really weird framing "churchill's biographer" as though that's some kind of official post. No attack on Andrew Roberts but just a weird insight into Hannan's brain
If there's anything in this Universe that will cause Trump to reverse course it's human NOT gate, Daniel Hannan shifting to the correct side of the line.
Comments
Offer them absolutely no respect.
We are out on our own because of Putin's Brexit. Which they touted.
History will judge their choices. That should be enough.
> History will judge their choices
Bit of a contradiction here - if no one expresses/acts on bitterness then what does history have to judge? History - if it involves any judgement - *is* people criticising actions.
> be welcomed.
I don't disagree with this ... but I think the most obvious measure of whether someone has "genuinely changed their mind" is whether they can handle other people's bitterness/recriminations.
He's largely irrelevant.
Even if it's only due to fear of public opinion, that in itself is a win for the rest of us.
Wonder if the final straw was the clip of Trump the other day, when asked about AUKUS, and Trump said, "What's that?"...
1) Ukraine
2) Europe is becoming more right wing (Meloni etc)
3) Help to shift the EU towards a more *free markets* inclination
cc @joxley.jmoxley.co.uk
(Meanwhile Labour have gone all Bennite again and reject the EU as a 'capitalist club'.)
The Cummings Manoeuvre: "it looked stupid & was stupid but I planned it all."
Trump shows he's serious by putting on a blindfold, jamming the accelerator down, pulling off the steering wheel & throwing it away
They are almost certainly too incapable of pulling it off without major negative consequences
Has anyone else said "Stopped Click" yet.
Oh.
It’s as if that world doesn’t exist anymore.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-14472697/Donald-Trump-chess-grandmaster-Putin-Zelensky-Ukraine-Gaza.html
So it took Brexiter historian Andrew Roberts (quoting Churchill) and Hard Right commentator Douglas Murray to nudge Hannan and Carswell the right way.
There is no retribution strong enough
Personally I would strip them of UK citizenship & put them on a one way flight to Moscow - Elliot would be on the 1st flight
Three weeks ago.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/24954629.hard-lessons-vance-humiliates-maga-pet-scottish-historian/
Not because of money (my country actually got extra jobs since some companies/organizations moved here after Brexit) but because of our former closeness and also the way the UK stands up for Ukraine, which is awesome
For those unfamiliar with him I append a picture.
Zero credibility unless he is able to own his own contribution.
Melania 😂😂😂😂
The cruelty of this US administration is unbelievable
Especially as it was only ever going to be of benefit to Putin.
Utter wanker.
It only has people to scapegoat.
....to become a vassal state of the US where the wealthy become ever richer.
He can shove his warnings about Labour in the shrinking orbit where the sun don’t shine!
life.