i said several years ago that I no longer believed that, if I as a Jew needed Israel to fulfill its purpose as a refuge for Jews, it would be available to me in that situation. a lot has happened since then and none of it moves the needle the good direction. - ThreadSky

proptermalone.bsky.social • 2 days ago

i said several years ago that I no longer believed that, if I as a Jew needed Israel to fulfill its purpose as a refuge for Jews, it would be available to me in that situation.

a lot has happened since then and none of it moves the needle the good direction.

Reposted from Microplastics Sommelier

our “we are making lists of jews” t-shirt raising many questions already answered by the shirt

Comments

robbinsa.me•2 days ago

including the first political olim expulsion last year!

lessdismalsci.bsky.social•2 days ago

I’m an outsider here, but this really seems like the logical conclusion is going to be that even extremely strong supporters like Schumer are going to end up as PNGs because the craziness rachet only turns one way.

proptermalone.bsky.social•2 days ago

To Betar, sure, Q is how that translates to Israel or US government imo

acabcalloway.bsky.social•2 days ago

I wrote Chicago DSA's BDS bylaws amendment knowing that by doing so I'd be banned from travel to Israel, and had to explain the whole "you'll know I'm getting put on a list for this" convo with other members.

bananapantz.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yikes! (I admit I do not know what this organization is)

proptermalone.bsky.social•2 days ago

that’s a longer answer than I want to get into right now, including the assessment of how much juice they have (not zero)

bananapantz.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yeah.

I’m definitely not asking you to tell me. I’ll google if necessary.

tbapple.bsky.social•2 days ago

I decided never to seek refuge in Israel because a lot of American’s want us there to hasten our demise at the hands of their mythological leader.
And every time I see Iran, nukes and Israeli in one article, I think I’m right.

apearlma.bsky.social•2 days ago

Yup. I've deliberately never visited Israel and I'm just amazed it has gone from a position that I felt was sufficiently out there not to talk about it much unless specifically a sunday school teacher was lying to kids...to a "wait, am I in the majority?"

roosefella.bsky.social•2 days ago

for my jewish friends, I think its approaching 100%

roosefella.bsky.social•2 days ago

but this does have strong shades of "everyone at my yoga studio voted for clinton!"

roosefella.bsky.social•2 days ago

and I know some of them did birthright in college

roosefella.bsky.social•2 days ago

(indoctrination, failed)

proptermalone.bsky.social•2 days ago

I gotta say that I did Birthright and I did not feel that indoctrination was a major part of at least my trip.

mashamasha.bsky.social•2 days ago

I've been DYING to visit, but was waiting for Bibi to step down first. Which now looks like it'll never happen and that he'll outlive me too.

Both my kids said no to the offer of a birthright trip. I didn't quite get it then. All my friends' kids went and I felt awkward. I get it now.

pasqualena.bsky.social•2 days ago

Enemy-of-the-state lists never go well, especially for Jews. I always hope that we of all people will know better and do better. Then I’m always disappointed by the hypocrisy, short memory, and lack of conscience.

evilmam.bsky.social•2 days ago

My family are secular lefty Jews and Israel wasn't something I was raised to have an opinion about beyond a vague 'rootin' for the underdog, Jewish folks need a homeland' feeling. Visited in 1999 and am now PASSIONATE about separation of Church & State, boy howdy, what an eye-opener

sunshipballon.bsky.social•2 days ago

Nearly 30 years ago, when I was 18, I was told *directly* that I was not welcome at Hillel because of my views on Israel. (And I was and am not extreme on the issue at all). So yeah, not a huge surprise.

aliceradley.bsky.social•2 days ago

Same. I *could* apply for Aliya, but I don’t think it would be pleasant. I’m sure I’m an unsavory Jew.

jackwaltimore.bsky.social•2 days ago

So, just to recap, they'll be making a list of who's naughty or nice, and submitting it to the Israeli government to be checked twice.

jackwaltimore.bsky.social•2 days ago

Israelis are emotionally armored against Holocaust comparisons, so I feel like Santa Claus is actually a far more fruitful avenue of attack at this point.

It's a known vulnerability, at least.

stealmyposts.bsky.social•2 days ago

they don't know what santa claus is. this is a genuinely jewish hegemon.

alexiterick.bsky.social•1 day ago

A reasonable number of Israelis are probably familiar with Ded Moroz (Grandfather Frost, the secularized Soviet Santa) given that AIUI Soviet-style New Year celebrations are reasonably common in Israel.

jackwaltimore.bsky.social•1 day ago

I, too, am burdened with this knowledge.

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

not knowing off the top who Norman Finkelstein might be it sounds like a dark joke. "Yeah, you, Norman Finkelstein, you shlemiel! You don't GO to the Promised Land. You still owe me eleven dollars."

ugh.

funny I'd much rather go to Germany.

and I really didn't like Germany.

darkangelcryo.bsky.social•2 days ago

He is a Jewish-American anti-zionist and academic. He has also said a lot of stupid thing about holocaust denial, including praising David Irving in 2020.

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

oh. well. that's bad.

christ.

"Hi, Team Fuck All Y'All over here"

darkangelcryo.bsky.social•2 days ago

Pretty much my reaction

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

proud to be a "diaspora Jew" today.

old joke from my grandparent's hoary tome:

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

In Haifa, (oh--a long time ago, I'd guess this one's from the 60's or so) a woman behind a mother and her son on a bus. Kid keeps speaking Hebrew, mom says "no no, speak Yiddish!"

Finally, woman asks: "excuse me, but why tell him to speak Yiddish?"

"I don't want him to forget he's a Jew."

blank.org•2 days ago

I think it's gone now, but somewhere in the mostly abandoned 4th floor of the insane maze of the Tel Aviv Central New Bus Station was the last radical Yiddish book store in Israel, and I always felt that was just an absurdly on-the-nose metaphor for the entire project of Zionism.

blank.org•2 days ago

(The one time I was in there, there was no one at the desk and I wandered into the much larger back room to find a bunch of people rehearsing some sort of yiddish avant-garde play. One of them was in a chicken costume. None of them acknowledged my presence. This felt, in context, entirely normal.)

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

see THAT is my heritage

mystakak.bsky.social•2 days ago

It’s interesting that the groups accusing others of being antisemitic are questions the “Jewishness” of others. I think there is a word for that. Starts with an A.

dalassa.bsky.social•2 days ago

Apikoros?

kerthulhu75.bsky.social•2 days ago

Apartheid?

fogbaby.bsky.social•2 days ago

No, antisemite.

osakakanagawa50.bsky.social•2 days ago

Israel is increasingly an illiberal country.

Like, the alternative is between Benny Gantz or Avigdor Lieberman from anti-Bibi to become the next Prime Minister.

Lack discussion fostering Jews-Arab relationship in politics.

Even centrist/left wing can't say clearly rejecting population transfer.

connorlynch.bsky.social•2 days ago

looks like a buffer overflow on signed integer zionism

slackermom.bsky.social•1 day ago

I’m sure I would get added if they checked out my social media. I am proud to be an anti-Zionist Jew. I don’t believe in the concept of theocratic states for reasons that should be obvious. That requires ethnic cleansing & a caste system. And that is not my Judaism.

kelpkelpkelp.bsky.social•2 days ago

They would just as happily send Jews on that list to dissident camps in El Salvador as ban them from Israel. It'll be the same list.

jagsaysstupid.bsky.social•2 days ago

“Kapo” if you disagree with genocide. Make it make sense.

helitzur.bsky.social•2 days ago

As bad as things have gotten, there are significant swaths of Israeli society who are fighting hard for tolerance and decency, and what they would really benefit from that American Jews can provide is solidarity.

proptermalone.bsky.social•2 days ago

I have lots of solidarity for the opposition in Israel. What I’m lacking is faith that they will at any near point win the majority

slackermom.bsky.social•1 day ago

Ever since Israel supported the expansion of the illegal settlements, I have been angry and cannot support the Israeli government. I support the opposition there as I am part of the opposition here. As long as the US has its thumb on the scale for Israel, that opposition won’t win.

helitzur.bsky.social•1 day ago

I don't know how you define "anti-Zionist" but every opposition party in Israel, outside of the Arab-majority parties, explicitly identifies as Zionist.

slackermom.bsky.social•1 day ago

Ok well it was just casual framing. I only have so many characters to make my point. Go pick on someone else.

helitzur.bsky.social•1 day ago

If it's casual framing in the sense that you're not particularly committed to it, then why complain about being picked on? There are plenty of other terms that seem to accurately fit instead, like "anti-occupation."

helitzur.bsky.social•2 days ago

Bibi's assaults on democracy + Oct 7 failure could lead to realignments on some pretty big issues. No reason to expect peace anytime soon, but the Beitars of the world might be among those who end up on the outside.

proptermalone.bsky.social•2 days ago

here’s hoping!

helitzur.bsky.social•2 days ago

The electoral margins are not that different from the US, at least in terms of Bibi's hold on power. A last-minute split among the Arab parties in '22 was probably the difference between Bibi winning and another hung election, which would have kept Lapid as PM.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-led-joint-list-splits-into-2-factions-shuffling-political-deck-at-last-minute/

profmisterlizzie.bsky.social•2 days ago

I had wondered for a while whether I'd WANT to live in Israel given its current politics but until very recently, I did truly believe that Israel would take me, atheism/leftwing politics and all, if I needed to flee. I now have real doubts, that horrendous Betar group is one reason.

saudades.bsky.social•2 days ago

i have family in haifa and its entirely likely i will never see them again, and thats sadly, tragically ok.

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

My therapist is Israeli-American, with family there.

I worry about her.

saudades.bsky.social•2 days ago

i used to spend summers as a child with my family in israel and i didn't turn out to be someone who pleasures myself to genocide (in fact BETAR probably has me on their lists)

lizamazel.bsky.social•2 days ago

i don't know from BETAR. sounds like I didn't miss much. ugh.

sarahvb.bsky.social•2 days ago

Israel has gone from “no real interest in ever visiting, but I know I can escape there if the shit hits the fan” to “oh well, back to square one.”

dlr723.bsky.social•2 days ago

I'd be honored and delighted to be on that list. And a zissun pesach to all...

celticdragon1.bsky.social•2 days ago

Omg what the utter fuck

I'm Scottish American protestant but I'm genuinely stunned at the notion of a *list* of political undesirables.

This is the kind of shit you read about in the Tudor era where ppl were afraid to even keep diaries that might be used against them

mandalee.bsky.social•1 day ago

How can they not see what they are doing? It breaks my heart, and I don't understand.

sababausa.bsky.social•2 days ago

Makes this by Jeffrey Goldberg an…interesting reread

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/

fogbaby.bsky.social•2 days ago

And go where?

sababausa.bsky.social•2 days ago

He says they should all go to Israel

fogbaby.bsky.social•2 days ago

Interesting. On another person’s post it was suggested that reform Jews might not be welcomed as Aliyah candidates by current Israeli govt due to their tendency to be more leftist & pro-democracy.

jonatkins.bsky.social•2 days ago

About the least of the problems here, but unless there is new news Google isn’t showing me, Finkelstein was banned from entering Israel for 10 years in 2008, which seems likely to have expired already.

youknowit.bsky.social•1 day ago

The term enantiodromia keeps springing to mind when I see reports from Israel.

jenwith1n.bsky.social•2 days ago

I told my dad recently that as a patrilineal Jew I’ve spent my whole life hearing Israeli leaders talk about how I’m not a real Jew, why would I trust them to protect me?

maxpolun.com•2 days ago

Ever since listening to this podcast, I've known I wouldn't be welcome in Israel, despite being Jewish

https://youtu.be/H1fGQaITXlo?si=6G6niVLq2gf2Ir0a

mashamasha.bsky.social•2 days ago

For me it was a couple of months ago.

I had many a fight with people on here (and caught a block from an author I respect 😢) for telling people that we as Jews have nowhere else to go because any other nation is likely to turn on us. Well, look who just turned on us! I hate this timeline.

spookychum.bsky.social•1 day ago

Apparently this is a brand new account of less than a year old, and it does nothing but troll

proptermalone.bsky.social•1 day ago

Account might be new, Betar is a century old

spookychum.bsky.social•1 day ago

If someone from Betar is behind this...oh how far they've fallen, even for them

proptermalone.bsky.social•1 day ago

I mean, plenty of Jews listed on Canary Mission, which is at least coaligned with Betar and likely overlapping.

telson.bsky.social•2 days ago

There's nothing now to be said for Israel except that since it is an existing nation state its existence should be respected.
I wish it was less horrible, but there are a lot of horrible countries.

the-greetest.bsky.social•2 days ago

I think Seth Rogan put it well along the lines of "why would he want to go to an area where it is necessary for Jews to go and die so that the apocalypse Christians can end the world?"

sunshipballon.bsky.social•2 days ago

I'm not fan of Israel, if they were committing ethnic cleansing of Jews where I lived, I might want to go to Israel.

the-greetest.bsky.social•1 day ago

Christians are performing a soft ethnic cleansing by encouraging and funding Jews leaving western countries.

It looks like help, but it most definitely is not.

Rapture theology is very strongly believed in by evangelists of all dominations.

sunshipballon.bsky.social•1 day ago

and surely you see how that's different (if anything, the reverse) of the kind of situation I'm talking about.

the-greetest.bsky.social•1 day ago

They're interlinked. That's why institutions with a deep history of almost two thousand years of deep antisemitism have suddenly turned heel and strongly support "repatriation."

There's a reason why some openly white supremacist groups support Israel.

sunshipballon.bsky.social•1 day ago

Okay, yes anti-Semites do both, but it's weird you're totally conflating the two things. My point is I may leave when they are trying to kill me, not when they are offering to pay for me to leave (which, not for nothing, is a phenomenon that is much less common than you are making it out to be).

proptermalone.bsky.social•1 day ago

Push migration and pull migration are pretty different morally even if they result in similar movement

munson.land•2 days ago

If they want to sever Jewish identity from Israeli identity, that seems counter to the idea of Zionism as a Jewish project, and much more in line with a specific political regime operating as an ethnonationalist right wing project? If only there were a word for that.

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•2 days ago

if only! lolsob

munson.land•2 days ago

(I was told that applying a word for a project of ethnic separatism, say, “apartness”, within the boundaries of a state to the state of Israel was out of bounds, perhaps because the historical comparison was not 100% congruent, so I can understand the lack of willingness to use accurate descriptors)

munson.land•2 days ago

And to be scrupulously fair, Betar Worldwide is not an official state agency of Israel. To lay blame for their tomfoolery at the feet of the Israeli government would be wrong. But then again, the government could speak out, seeing this, and say, “every Jew is welcome here”. I don’t know if they have

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