Only Mel Gibson would think of taking a historical figure that was known to rape his slaves and slaughter Indigenous peoples and decide to make a movie where they are the hero. The Patriot
One of the main reasons, of course, is that Apollo 13 stayed largely to what actually happened, while Braveheart was mostly made up and stood as a vanity project for Mel Gibson
The task is to NOT put words into mouths that would not have uttered them, to NOT present actions that the historical individuals and times would not have performed. Historical drama sustains its integrity in the accurate contexts in which every action plays out.
No, there is no need for inaccuracy if you do your homework, reality is dramatic, as you may have discovered for yourself while living through historical periods.
I can't speak to specifics without specifics, but filling in the blanks in narratives is not of itself immoral, the test of its integrity as a work of art, is it search for complex truths in the rubble of aftermaths.
In the famous “Freedom!” Battle charge scene, the big red headed Scotsman’s rubber battle axe swings ridiculously side to side as he runs, and if you look in the background you can see a white van parked on the hill behind them.
If you never see it, you’re OK. There’s a scene in gladiator in the beginning when Maximus is still a general walking around and you can see a man in blue jeans backing out of the frame. Once you see it, you never unsee it. Lol
We ARE NOT POWERLESS!!
Get out on 17 Feb. If you can’t, CALL EMAIL AND CALL AGAIN your representatives. Can’t do that repost to everyone on every platform.
We lost wringing our hands we WIN when we lace up and FIGHT!!!
Forgive me for having my own opinion. Did I say it’s not good? It’s good not great. My god it’s fucking insane how one can go from 0 to 100 over a fucking movie when someone calls something not great.
This is a prime example for why I think the Oscars are fun, but hardly definitive for the best work of any given year. History will always be a more fair judge. Sense and Sensibility also holds up better than Braveheart.
Yep. I said it in a different reply, but I enjoy the Oscars (and awards season in general) as a chance to appreciate film, see some good ones get attention, and maybe share some recommendations with others for stuff that didn't. But when it comes to who actually wins...
I know a lot of people hold the Oscars up because it's and 'industry' award, voted on by people in the industry. But I doubt the vast majority of people who vote are actually like, seriously spending a good amount of time seriously considering what's really the best, what says the most...
...what's most reflective of our time, what's going to stand the test of time, etc. Most of them are probably just voting for what they saw and liked, or what people they talked to liked, or what they remember best, or for friends or family.
I think, at the end of the day, the only thing "Best Picture Winner" means is that a lot of people in this very specific community voted for it. That's it.
I can sadly say I haven't seen Apollo 13. I fell asleep in the movie theater before they even blasted off, woke up for the credits, and thought, "That's the stupidest movie I've ever seen." I was a little kid.
It was full of amateurish errors and fantasy, but the score was peak film score era. Not just maxed out dBs, like they all do in this Zimmer-influenced era. Also, Apollo 13 wasn't exactly error free, either. 😅 Both great movies. Hindsight, with Gibson's mental decay obviously makes Apollo 13 better.
Comparing the theatrical version of the '99 movie Payback with its 2006 director's cut release, shows fairly well how Mel broke. Someone clearly got "inside his head" around that time. Messiah syndrome and all that torture porn nonsense.
I’m a massive space nerd and I am more than happy to overlook the small liberties Apollo 13 took. Find a history buff who’ll say the same of Braveheart 😄
You're not wrong. Apollo 13 took great pains to be as accurate as possible to what happened and had amazing acting. Braveheart can best be described as "loosely based" on history and had Mel Gibson
I don't know why, because most people hate my favorite films... but I really, intensely, hated The Truman Show as I watched it, that one time in a theater. I've probably not given it it's due... but I can't, won't, watch it again.
Don’t. It was horrible. It has a niche following but it was trash then and is still now. Shakespeare in Love was a great movie. Did it deserve the nod over Saving Private Ryan? I’m going with yes. Both excellent films. But there’s one I’ve seen loads of times and one I watch sparingly.
TRUMAN SHOW wasn't even nominated best picture, was it?
Back then, among the nominees, everyone assumed SAVING PRIVATE RYAN should've won. In retrospect, it's THE THIN RED LINE. Here's a scene that might feel relevant to some people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prpp236oydk
Total Fiction, just like most of the BS the government has propagated us with. You do know, I hope, that Hollywood has been funded by YOUR taxpayer dollars for all the BS. Read Hollywood Babylon and get back to me. You are simple minded
I fucking love Bugsy. That movie deserves more appreciation. Maybe not 'should have won BP over Silence of the Lambs' appreciation, but appreciation none the less.
It doesn't age well for me. That whole plotline of kidnapping a young woman to be his conversation concubine because her dad took a wrong turn in the woods.
Yup Mel couldn't even get the Battle of Stirling Bridge right, who doesn't want to see a mass of British soldiers bottle necked on a bridge, massacred and drowned.
TBH, I actually liked Braveheart, but I don’t like Mel Gibson right now. There’s a lot of actors that I don’t like right now. Doesn’t mean that I did not enjoy their work at some time, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to see it; in fact, I’d go out of my way not to see it.
I like Out of Africa for the most part, but yeah, it gets SO dull at points. I feel like there's a great movie somewhere in there if it had just been cut down a bit. There was no reason that movie needed to almost 3 hours long.
"The Color Purple" was a masterpiece. If I'm flipping channels and it's on I stop to watch it. I don't know how many times I've seen it but there's always something new to learn or notice.
Used to like Braveheart but watched it stoned once & realized what a shit actor Gibson is. Apolo 13 is a way better movie across the board stoned or sober.
So I literally bought the soundtrack today at a used cd store! Just happened to see it and thought huh, this will be good. And then this post hits my feed… what?!
I'm still trying to reconcile how much I loved Braveheart and Mel Gibson with the disgust I now feel for that person. Same with: Bill Cosby, JK Rowling, Neil G.... every time this happens it feels like I've lost a friend. But, Yes! Apollo 13, fantastic in all ways!
I watch Braveheart twice a year, at least. It's great every time. I watched Apollo 13 once, and I'm good. Personal preference, but I could watch Princess Isabelle tell LongShanks that it's Wallaces baby every single day of my life. Fake or not.
Apollo 13 tells a story which
(A) actually happened
(B) honors the best in humanity: how far we'll go to save each other. How clever we can be, on our good days.
It happened, so it could happen again, so let's live our lives ready to be that clever, that compassionate and that courageous.
Movies are always subjective. The worst decision ever was
‘Once upon a time in Hollywood’
A nothing story which can’t even pretend it was loosely based on the Charles Mason murders of Sharon Tate and her friends.
Apollo 13 also lost the Best Visual Effects Oscar to Babe — which was a sweet movie that did one thing quite well (for the time): animating the animals’ mouths. Apollo 13 had complex CG, animation, creative compositing using filmed elements, fluid dynamics, miniatures, etc.
I also love that it’s basically the only movie where they shot the zero gravity scenes practically using the “vomit comet,” which is such a staggeringly amazing visual effects achievement. it’s a huge part of why it’s aged so well.
Was Braveheart factually inaccurate? Yes. Is it starring someone that’s now been discovered to be infinitely more awful of a person? Also yes. Was it used to lionize historical people with questionable morals? Sure, BUT
…actually I don’t remember where I was going with this.
Trainspotting is brilliant. It was released in the U.S. in '96, wo it was eligibler for the next year's Oscars. It was nominated for Best Screenplay and lost to Sling Blade.
In the category of awards going to wrong nominees; Andrew Garfield should have won for Hacksaw Ridge, Casey Affleck in Manchester By The Sea was very good but be so very for real Andrew was better
Looking back now, "Braveheart" was a bunch of men getting dirty in kilts. The characterizations were so broad, they should've had "Bad Guy" and "Good Guy" captions.
Spare a thought for those in Stirling - as per Wikipedia:
Tom Church carved a statue of Wallace called "Freedom", which was inspired by the film Braveheart. It has the face of Mel Gibson...The statue was deeply unpopular, being described as "among the most loathed pieces of public art in Scotland".
My brother told me this is what he saw at the Wallace Monument about 20 years ago. I did NOT believe him, partly because he's a lifelong teller of tall tales, but also bc it seemed too embarrassingly cheesy for Scotland.
oh no man… love the guy, he is prolific and some movies are meh, some bad and others absolutely incredible. Him reading Anne Pattchet The House is one of the best narrations, he is a history buff and a genuinely good person.
Well it's a pretty trashy movie anything should have trounced it, ace Ventura, babe, the net, species, that animates movie of the dog, the horror movie about the kids with white hair, literally any 1995 movie
Brad Pitt, who was in top form that year in 12 Monkeys, lost to Söze too. A pity — at the time I thought Spacey won more for the extraordinary role, not for the way he acted it. I could see a number of different actors killing that part, but Pitt was singular in his interpretation of Goines.
Omg, I’m of Scottish stock and I’m mortified 😳 Braveheart was anywhere near the Oscars. It’s a piece of 💩. I can’t even begin to list the ways but Mel Gibson’s “acting” is disqualifying alone. Hearing MAGAmericans have it as their only “historical” reference point is 🤦🏼♂️ but explains a lot. 🌝
Cars lost best animated to Happy Feet, and Transformers One had no major nominations. Academy awards and critics are dead to me. Audiences aren't innocent either.
Braveheart made Robert the Bruce look like a collabor and a cunt. I'll never forgive Mel Gibson for impuning the greatness and sacrifices of Scotland's greatest defender!
I hate Mel Gibson, but “Braveheart“ was a really great movie. That being said, Apollo 13 followed history. Other than being based in Scotland, and having a main character named William Wallace, “Braveheart” had almost no other historical context.
I don't know about that. I can't stand Mel Gibson but if I'm flipping channels and see Braveheart I'll stop and watch it. I love everyone in Apollo 13 but if I come across it I'm like, " seen it" and keep scrolling.
BRAVEHEART was absolute trash for people who actually have Scottish ancestry. It bears so little relation to the actual events, and the costumes were so wrong they might as well have been wearing bell bottoms
RIGHT? They didn’t even have tartan plaid back then. That was like 500 years later. And that’s the tiniest of the wrong things….dont get me started on his lack of beard or that the French princess was an infant….
Comments
However, that's not the first film mentioned.
I could look, yes, but asking is more fun.
You can’t unsee it…
We ARE NOT POWERLESS!!
Get out on 17 Feb. If you can’t, CALL EMAIL AND CALL AGAIN your representatives. Can’t do that repost to everyone on every platform.
We lost wringing our hands we WIN when we lace up and FIGHT!!!
But goddamn is it well made, cartoon nonsense.
Braveheart doesn’t even come close.
Honestly Gibson could be the nicest guy around, still wouldn’t make this a good movie.
https://youtu.be/ojBwASARAzo?si=aS3xTbZAphTWTiP6
Back then, among the nominees, everyone assumed SAVING PRIVATE RYAN should've won. In retrospect, it's THE THIN RED LINE. Here's a scene that might feel relevant to some people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prpp236oydk
Nice name BTW, as it’s mine too.
On the flip side, Apocalypto is underrated.
But Braveheart inspired me more.
(jk)
Apollo 13 is one of those films you can watch over and over again, too.
(A) actually happened
(B) honors the best in humanity: how far we'll go to save each other. How clever we can be, on our good days.
It happened, so it could happen again, so let's live our lives ready to be that clever, that compassionate and that courageous.
‘Once upon a time in Hollywood’
A nothing story which can’t even pretend it was loosely based on the Charles Mason murders of Sharon Tate and her friends.
A13 was robbed.
I also love that it’s basically the only movie where they shot the zero gravity scenes practically using the “vomit comet,” which is such a staggeringly amazing visual effects achievement. it’s a huge part of why it’s aged so well.
Was Braveheart factually inaccurate? Yes. Is it starring someone that’s now been discovered to be infinitely more awful of a person? Also yes. Was it used to lionize historical people with questionable morals? Sure, BUT
…actually I don’t remember where I was going with this.
“Babe: Pig In The City” though …
Deliciously evil.
Braveheart just Spartacus remake
There, I feel better.
Tim Morrison’s trumpet playing on that wonderful soundtrack is thrilling.
Nor is it Driving Miss Daisy over Field of Dreams.
Did you ever get an award or get nominated?
Then again, I’ve come to expect Fcuk all from Mel Gibson since Lethal Weapon.
I have Scottish friends who get really, really cross at the denigrating way William Wallace was portrayed.
It's best to keep them away from all mention of it.
Then I remembered, they all made it.
Tom Church carved a statue of Wallace called "Freedom", which was inspired by the film Braveheart. It has the face of Mel Gibson...The statue was deeply unpopular, being described as "among the most loathed pieces of public art in Scotland".
My proclivities are not under discussion here. 😂
Never saw Braveheart and sure as hell won’t now!
A good awards ceremony would never have given Crash so much as a nomination.
That line still cracks us up.
But true, Apollo 13 was many times over, much better-
APOLLO WAS THE BLACK BOXER IN ROCKY
LOVE BERYL