This is like the right wing version of the liberals who claim they can just pick up and move to a different country. No, no you can’t, you just assume it works that way because you want it to
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I've never actually heard a liberal say this. When I hear this, it's usually a conservative talking about a liberal who said this, typically a celebrity like Whoopi Goldberg or Robert DeNiro.
Oh, I've looked at August's other tweets ... he's a moronic troll who habitually dunks on "liberals", without any understanding of what the word means.
These comments are pretty fucking telling. The majority of folks don't have the financial stability to even move in this fucking country, let alone out of it. Gods.
I am nearing 40 with very little saved up towards the possibility of buying a house in large part because I moved states like four times in my twenties. It's very expensive! And if you didn't already have work lined up it's a hell of a gamble.
I’m 45 and have moved more times than I can count. WA, NYC, OH, CO, CA, FL, CO, CA, HI, CO— and those are just the states. That doesn’t include the moves within those states. I’m very lucky to be a home owner!
My poor kids have been shlepped all over the globe. They are incredibly easy going travelers and seem completely content even when I feel inside out with overwhelm. We are finally done moving and I’m BEYOND EXCITED to put down roots.
You have to register vehicles and get new drivers licenses. That has to be done within a few days of moving and isn’t prorated. Also many states charge processing fees on top of the registration fees. Within state moves usually requires a change of address form that can be done on line.
Movers or time off to pack a truck
Renting the truck and supplies, fuel, taking time off to drive there
Eating out between kitchens
Hotel rooms
New utility deposits
New trash pickup deposit
I suspect they mostly mean the longer distance costs more. Of course, people could move long distance within the same state, and the East Coast has a lot of smaller states.
I moved from NYC to Philadelphia (120 miles) and there's a whole other state between these cities (New Jersey).
Yep, this is my read also. As compared to moving within a local area, where you can keep your job/daycare/school/etc (and your social support network).
To accomplish this, I had to take a weekend down in Philadelphia to look at apartments. This was when apartments weren't quite so hard to find; it's more difficult now.
Then the cost of movers. Can't just rent a truck and pay friends in pizza to spend at least 1 whole day moving you long distance!
It isn't easy but very doable to move to a different country. I have done it 4 times... 6 if you count the time I went to live in Spain for work but that was for a short while.
We moved from LA to Vegas but we're lucky enough to be self employed and have a flexible schedule. Still, driving 5 hours with 3 big dogs, one of whom was sick, was, um, a challenge...
We should make the distinction between simple and expensive. Making the move is not difficult (with proper planning as was stated), AND it’s expensive.
If you need planning its not simple. "Easy enough with planning and finances" is not Simple for many people. The amount of paperwork and agency visits needed to make sure that the Gov knows where you are now is enough to give most people stress attacks, let alone finding new jobs, Dr, childcare, etc
I didn’t say simple, I said not difficult. Evidently those words have varying interpretation. As a Project Manager by trade all those things you mention do not sound difficult to me. However, I can imagine it would to someone who does not have experience researching, planning, scheduling, etc.
My comments were in response to the assertion that liberals cannot pick up and move out of the country. I was suggesting that in fact, it can be done. There are obviously a myriad of considerations only one of which is affordability. If you can afford it then the others are just tasks on a list.
No, actually I think you might be missing the point of the original post but the difference in how we’re reading/interpreting the post is what makes the discussion so fascinating. 🤷♀️
I think half of them are being intentionally shitty. They want us to suffer and know we can't just up and leave, and take active pleasure in the fact that the fash state is making our lives harder and there's jack a lot of us can do about it.
I moved from Indiana to Nevada for my husband's relatively well -paying job (for higher Ed) and it's going to take a while to financially recover. We're in our 40s and had no debt and it was still a hit because of cost of living is so much higher here.
And if you are diagnosed autistic or disabled most countries won’t allow you to 🙃 a lot of countries are prejudice against people with disabilities. Millions of disabled people would be trapped.
Yes, you can move to another country! It's very hard, takes a lot of planning! But It's easier than living for the next 4 ( or maybe more) in this , what has become a 💩 of a country!
Oh hun tell me you don't know how to emigrate to another country without saying. You can't move to Canada without a job and money in the bank. Plus you don't get "free" health care for 6 months. But try it. We don't want any of you here either.
And that includes the dozens and dozens of legal papers, and funds required to access tickets/visas/immigration services/etc. Moving takes resources that many do not have access to
Schengen countries allow a yearly stay of 6 months total per year (max 90 days at a time out of every 180) without a visa. My friend and her husband bought a townhouse in The Netherlands; spend 1/2 year there.
Yeah. That's how it works. And seeing as most here are only wishing to "leave" time he's in office, not a reasonable choice. My friend bought their townhouse years ago, not necessarily bc DT, though she detests him. (She worked with DNC/at the convention Chicago the past election.(
The people who need to leave for their own safety are not your friends with corporate resources and summer homes abroad, please be so very very real here
True.😔 Didn't mean to imply that part was easy, just an option.🙂 Many don't realize you can buy propery in other countries w/o being a citizen, live there w/o visa limited time per year.
Yeah but you can’t work there because you would need a different visa (working permit) and many of us need to work to live. So that great escape plan is only good for a small minority of riches or retirees pp.
The most important resources for immigrants are a healthy body and mind. Otherwise, the plan of living somewhere else without a support network or relatives doesn't work.
it’s easy for people to forget they’re in the upper echelons of society when they still work for a living. the other day my friend was shocked when a couple of us less fortunate folks thought $3k was a lot of money.
I guess I don’t see the analogy between these. People move to different countries all the time. There’s no contradiction in one’s believes if one finds it difficult to move to another country for financial reasons given that millions of Americans have done this.
Yeah, my wife and I moved to Amsterdam in 2023 from California, it took a lot of effort and it was only something I was able to do because of my career + experience
Exactly. My wife was born here and my MIL is a Finnish national who has been here on a green card for 60 years. Even though she’s the daughter of a Finnish citizen, she can’t get a Finnish passport and even though we would love to move there, they aren’t going to just let us show up and live there.
You can claim citizenship directly if one of your parents is Finnish
If your grandparents are Finnish, you can relocate to Finland and apply for citizenship after six years of residency. I'm currently in the process.
One thing I have to applaud John Oliver for giving people a first-hand look at how insane the immigration process is even for a “huge TV celebrity” (his joking words) like him who’s already married to an American.
I thought it was a right wing thing to even say that, like when you see a post about Native Americans who talk about stolen land and then the top comment is just like "so move"
Why don't they just start a GoFundMe for their green card since they want them gone so bad?
It isn't that hard if you are willing to move to a nonWestern country. It is impossible for liberals because they aren't capable of doing anything, even easy things.
Yeah, I’ve been looking into it and planning to for years. Planning to move to a country with a lower cost of living than in the US, and make money in $USD remotely
Currently visiting Belgrade, Serbia and it’s genuinely really pleasant here and apartments can be very very cheap compared to the US
I didn’t find it difficult, do the research, there are tons of books and online blogs on this subject. If you have your passport the world is your oyster, some countries require a visa.
My family and I are seriously considering a move. We’ve been researching locations & getting our affairs in order. We have 5 children so it would be quite an undertaking, but it doesn’t seem to be as difficult as I originally expected.
Yeah I looked at Canada and what I read made it seem complicated and then looked at Ireland and it was much simpler. Especially if my wife or I have Irish bloodlines.
Two I’ve heard of were upwork and Fiver, but I forgot to write down the others, there are a lot of them, and if you look on YouTube there are tons of people that help with this subject.
Sweetie germany for example won't grant you a working visa for an employer with no office in the country. You will be max on some sort of freelance visa of you can prove high income, outside of security nets. You are all delulu
It's not liberals who do this, other than sarcastically.
Also it's not "just like" that ... moving to another country is a personal actions and isn't hard for people who have the means. Secession is a political action that would be quite difficult.
It's actually possible to move abroad. People do it every day. It requires planning, research, and lead time, but it's entirely doable. But growing coffee in the wrong climate is impossible. Apples and oranges.
Except no amount of planning matters in a country with exploitative wages, exploding debt, and skyrocketing rent. Sure, it's POSSIBLE but totally unlikely for most of us. 🫠
I've been planning to relocate abroad for years, precisely because of affordability and health care. I can't afford to up and go, but I've been researching and planning, and things are coming together. It's actually far more common than you seem to imagine. YouTube expat videos offer information.
Well I wish you the best, regardless. All I've seen from U.S. folks immigrating is that they've been fortunate enough to get visas, descendent moves, have skills benefitting the country they're moving to, the finances to move, etc.
I will be moving to an EU country with a lower cost of living, better healthcare (by a mile), and a higher quality of life rating. If you check the annual ratings, the US is not very highly rated across most metrics.
Absolutely. As someone who lived and worked for a decade in another country, people who say that shit so flippantly have no clue what it means to be an immigrant. Just the work of existing in a foreign country long term can be exhausting, and that's before actual work.
I honestly don’t know any people who claim they can just pick up and move to a different country. I see lots of people on the right saying that they do, but… I really don’t see it. I see people considering moving to a new state when they can, or like me, cancelling plans to move someplace…
August does it all the time, while not even knowing what the word means. I've been a progressive democratic socialist for decades, and I'm sick of these johnny-come-lately "progressives" who make like liberals are the enemy.
A lot of liberals can pick up and move to another country. I don’t know many liberals who would say that without first having done the research. I have. I could. I might. 🤷♀️
Well, except, that moving to another country IF one has the means is rooted in reality, while growing coffee in the United States is not, because science
Wife and I immigrated to Canada when Trump was elected and we were privileged to be able to make it work (she had PhD and the ~$30k to do it, and I could pay our rent working remotely to the US until she had finished a Master's to get a work permit). Never could have done it in another situation.
Yeah, a university degree is the most efficient way to immigrate since you can do an 18-month Master's and it provides a 5-year work permit and access to industry job placement (and she wanted an change in career direction, anyway, so a second Master's was useful).
Plenty of them. Online there's a noninsignificant portion that talk about just moving to Canada or wherever to escape Trump like it's no more complicated than moving into a house
August dunks on liberals all the time, while not even knowing what the word means. I've been a progressive democratic socialist for decades, and I'm sick of these johnny-come-lately "progressives" who make like liberals are the enemy.
Ain't that the truth!! I wish it were that easy. I want to move to Finland, and it will cost me upwards of $50k to get me and my kids over. That's JUST getting there.
Best education system in the world.
Governments have never touched the curriculum, never controlled it.
There are no class tests, each child is guided to improve themselves.
A good society I think.
Wonder how this information age has impacted them?
It is the government that created and maintains the education system. It is good because private education is banned and so are metrics and it is free at the point of use all the way through university
But they do not meddle.
Teachers, who are extremely qualified, plan what is to be taught, etc
You would not believe the Gradgrind curriculum we have here in UK.
And the test culture has driven down ...etc
I understand what you mean. They will not be banning certain words or certain books. They are also not very fond of religion. And also closed to immigrants so its hard to move to Finland if you dont have lots of money
They are very much involved. It is why structured subject learning doesn’t begin until age 6.
The schools are good because there is no choice or catchment area or marketisation (things that hurt poor people and lower the quality of education around the world).
(soapbox away after this)
Friend of mine went to lecture in America, was appalled at their lack of critical thinking. They could read and remember, but could do little with it. She said (this is beginning C21st) they were not as advanced as our A' level students, never mind degree level
and yes, on top of all that we have private schools (and posh schools) and league tables and catchment areas.
We are making changes but it will take years! And the brain damaged rote learners are voting right wing fasciists - they have easier slogans
The only ones who can succeed at A'level (though goal posts might have changed) are the ones who read books, discuss topics in families, were home schooled, or failed at secondary school - in which case they are not seriously brain damaged and are able to learn, understand, etc
And yes, Finnish government support teachers - but do not control the whole thing.
Finnish people can remember, understand, apply and evaluate
Our poor souls may only get as far as remember - short phrases and then forgotten
Try teaching for understanding after 11 years of that!
nonono
WE are told exactly what to teach to children from the age of about 3
We follow a Gradgrind syllabus
We depress our kids to sheer ignorance
We test them all the time and there is a SATs test nationwide
We reduce our teaching to "this is the question, this is the answer" - see?
Maybe the government can seize the land Zuck owns for his bunker (you know, the tiny basement that has more square footage than a majority of homes) and grow coffee there.
And the older you are, the worse it gets. Almost impossible for an elderly person who isn't very wealthy to immigrate to Australia or New Zealand, for example. Many European countries are raising barriers to immigration.
you're right, moving to another country is the same as altering the climate, geography, and soil conditions of a giant chunk of land to accommodate growing a specific environmentally sensitive plant.
Straight up! Leaving is chicken shit but some people can do it just fine. This country will never be the same. Unfortunately a percentage of our countrymen and women don’t want to fight for her. We were conquered from within that’s how we fix it. We have to be brave mfs.
Liberals are in better position to just pick up and move to a different country, based on education, experience, and overall better attitude towards change.
If my parents did and so did other relatives during Trump I, and so did yet other relatives after Feb 2022, I definitely can.
Wait. You are a fellow liberal :)
We are not swimming in money, but we should be swimming in comradery.
Look at how the refugees who are coming to the US manage, by helping each other. Look how the expats are helping each other.
I can tell you in what we are more likely to swim in
- passports
- visas because we have friends relatives, colleagues in other countries
- same as👆 friends, relatives, and colleagues
- education and experience that is on "in demand" lists in those other countries.
I mean, you and your liberal buddies clearly have the means and resources to live it up abroad for the next few years, and y’all ain’t doing shit for anyone here at home, so catch the next flight and hop it.
I am way too cynical to believe in "the next few years".
I am also way too cynical to believe it is the US only issue or that we live in the US-centric world.
Don't worry, you won't get into foreign academia anyway, especially not in a way to be able to plan your life and not pray your one year contract will be renewed to stay legal. The person is delulu
Correct.
Those who do, should check who is recruiting.
Those who don't still have to find and check those variously named but still essentially "lists" of professions/skills that are in demand. The majority of those are not Academia.
Building an expat community is a good start for everyone.
I can’t because I don’t meet any Anglophone country’s immigration standards and I’m not going to uproot my entire family to move to another place where we can’t even speak the language
“Education, experience, and overall better attitude” have nothing to do with it. If you have money you can go just about anywhere, and if it’s somewhere they’ll let foreign nationals own property you never really have to come back.
I am not arguing with, "if you are Musk or Vivek, you don't even remember how many citizenships you have". It is true.
but I know that money is not the only way to emigrate.
How very nice for you. Most people actually can’t, though. It’s expensive, and you can’t be disabled, among other things. You also can’t have any major obligations (eg caregiving) to anyone who can’t go with you, unless you’re a selfish turd.
No way in hell is it just that simple. Maybe if you’re single with a lot of money, a degree in a desirable field and have literally nothing to take with or no one else to be responsible for. Upending a whole family and their lives is an enormous undertaking, and often undoable.
That is some steaming mandrill *merde* right there.
No decent country wants Americans now. You have to be stinking rich or have a 'skill' they desperately need. Period.
You are aware that a large chunk of Americans simply cannot afford it even with proper planning, right? And those that are in danger are typically the lowest earning in this country?
I can barely afford rent and food, let alone anything else?How am I supposed to afford leaving this hellhole?
Alright, all non-EU countries. For Switzerland, I know for certain that everybody is entitled to basic health insurance, there are no waivers unlike in the US. And there's no specific law prohibiting immigration of people with health issues. For Norway, I don't know.
You matter and are worthy of a wonderful life. While the United States devalues hardworking people that are absolutely necessary for society to function, it doesn't mean everywhere else is the same. I hope that wherever you are, your community supports and cares for you.
Many retirees on social security are expatriates. They certainly don’t have a shit ton of money. It is done all the time. Just because you are unaware, does not make impossible. I know many people who have done this.
From our experience, you need about $50k to move to Canada without an existing job/relative through a university>work permit>permanent residency>citizenship path. We were very privileged, as that's out of reach for many, many Americans.
And there are some who don't want to. They were born in the US and from their point of view, they have every right to live there and they'll be damned if they abandon it to the tender mercies of a deranged power-grabber.
you cannot pick up and move to any country, beloved. some countries do not accept the disabled, for example. every country is different. ask me how i know.
Bless your heart, he didn't say ANY country sweet child, he said different country. I did, as many do.
Sorry about your challenges. Let me tell you about my daughter with CP sometime.
Imo anyone who thinks it's easy to pack up and move to a different country suffer from typical US entitlement and likely believe that because they're US citizens other countries would welcome them with open arms, no questions asked. It's wild.
I don't know of a single liberal who thinks or says this. They know that they have to do research and prep and need adequate resources ... as all the ones in this thread who have actually done it have said.
The good news is that ich spreche jetzt nur ein bisschen Deutsch aber auch meine Arbeit ist aus Deutschland und meine Familie hat unsere Pass. Ich liebe Deutschland und auch Schweiz.
August dunks on liberals all the time, while not even knowing what the word means. I've been a progressive democratic socialist for decades, and I'm sick of these johnny-come-lately "progressives" who make like liberals are the enemy.
Comments
Muted for the dishonesty.
Try another analogy.
Just make sure you have work where you are heading and travel light. Don’t build up a huge pile of stuff.
Living in different parts of the US and Europe was amazing. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. ❤️
Renting the truck and supplies, fuel, taking time off to drive there
Eating out between kitchens
Hotel rooms
New utility deposits
New trash pickup deposit
So many things could pop up, too.
I moved from NYC to Philadelphia (120 miles) and there's a whole other state between these cities (New Jersey).
Then the cost of movers. Can't just rent a truck and pay friends in pizza to spend at least 1 whole day moving you long distance!
There is no realism, no gray space, no room for empathy in their lives.
https://immigration.co.nz/new-zealand-visa-types/
Most people who migrate don't start off in their new country owning a house and the same level of job they had in their home country.
it’s easy for people to forget they’re in the upper echelons of society when they still work for a living. the other day my friend was shocked when a couple of us less fortunate folks thought $3k was a lot of money.
being a refugee costs money.
- most people don't even have $400
- most people do not have any particular expertise
you must be useful and solvent in order to emigrate & to believe otherwise is some ignorant american exceptionalism bullshit
those cousins are on visas ya dumbass
visit, certainly, and spend your vacation money, but don't STAY ffs
if i had a few hundred grand and a phd, tho, that'd probably be different
If your grandparents are Finnish, you can relocate to Finland and apply for citizenship after six years of residency. I'm currently in the process.
Why don't they just start a GoFundMe for their green card since they want them gone so bad?
Currently visiting Belgrade, Serbia and it’s genuinely really pleasant here and apartments can be very very cheap compared to the US
Especially if you need employment
Buy some plane tickets and see where you want to spend some time.
they have no idea what that actually entails...just people saying whatever they want, but they'd lose their sht if it happened (and they lose rights)
Also it's not "just like" that ... moving to another country is a personal actions and isn't hard for people who have the means. Secession is a political action that would be quite difficult.
There are US immigrants all over Central and South America
Argentina has an open immigration policy, you just need $2k/month in income or deposit $24k
Governments have never touched the curriculum, never controlled it.
There are no class tests, each child is guided to improve themselves.
A good society I think.
Wonder how this information age has impacted them?
Teachers, who are extremely qualified, plan what is to be taught, etc
You would not believe the Gradgrind curriculum we have here in UK.
And the test culture has driven down ...etc
They are very much involved. It is why structured subject learning doesn’t begin until age 6.
The schools are good because there is no choice or catchment area or marketisation (things that hurt poor people and lower the quality of education around the world).
Friend of mine went to lecture in America, was appalled at their lack of critical thinking. They could read and remember, but could do little with it. She said (this is beginning C21st) they were not as advanced as our A' level students, never mind degree level
You must have noticed?
We are making changes but it will take years! And the brain damaged rote learners are voting right wing fasciists - they have easier slogans
Finnish people can remember, understand, apply and evaluate
Our poor souls may only get as far as remember - short phrases and then forgotten
Try teaching for understanding after 11 years of that!
WE are told exactly what to teach to children from the age of about 3
We follow a Gradgrind syllabus
We depress our kids to sheer ignorance
We test them all the time and there is a SATs test nationwide
We reduce our teaching to "this is the question, this is the answer" - see?
If my parents did and so did other relatives during Trump I, and so did yet other relatives after Feb 2022, I definitely can.
Liberals may be more educated or more open to new cultures/experiences, but as a whole, they aren't swimming in Rockefeller money.
We are not swimming in money, but we should be swimming in comradery.
Look at how the refugees who are coming to the US manage, by helping each other. Look how the expats are helping each other.
- passports
- visas because we have friends relatives, colleagues in other countries
- same as👆 friends, relatives, and colleagues
- education and experience that is on "in demand" lists in those other countries.
I am also way too cynical to believe it is the US only issue or that we live in the US-centric world.
Those who do, should check who is recruiting.
Those who don't still have to find and check those variously named but still essentially "lists" of professions/skills that are in demand. The majority of those are not Academia.
Building an expat community is a good start for everyone.
C’mon now
but I know that money is not the only way to emigrate.
No decent country wants Americans now. You have to be stinking rich or have a 'skill' they desperately need. Period.
I can barely afford rent and food, let alone anything else?How am I supposed to afford leaving this hellhole?
I have a family friend who literally cannot immigrate to Canada because her grandmother is Romani.
Also google what refugees life is like
I’m typing this from Mexico
Where I am a permanent resident.
It can be done.
Sorry about your challenges. Let me tell you about my daughter with CP sometime.
So like, it depends.