One of my big fears is that there would be a new Kent State massacre and people would be so brainwashed that they wouldn’t even be horrified because we’ve fallen so far but that is pretty much actually what happened at Kent State
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I've seen very little coverage of Trump's EO ordering the Army to operate as law enforcement on US soil: The 1878 Posse Comitatus Act prohibits this, but by describing seized public lands as "military installations" & "holding areas", they'll circumvent the law.
American history is just a long list of fascist intimidation to suppress the will of the people against unpopular policy that serves only capital interests so you can see why they're busy banning teaching any of it for education.
I can't tell if this makes me hopeful or fearful. On the one hand, that's awful. Maybe we've been too far down the road for a while. On the other hand, considering the way we look back on this event today, maybe we can be better than we are now.
If you haven't read it this interview with Jerry Casale is worth your time. Casale was present as the Kent State massacre unfolded with Mark Mothersbaugh. Together, they went on to found DEVO. Also with them was Chrissie Hynde, who went on to found The Pretenders. https://www.kent.edu/art/news/remembering-may-4-interview-devos-jerry-casale
In a twisted way, this makes our current time seem more hopeful. If the victories of the Civil Rights Movement occurred in a time where only ⅒ of the population thought murdering American kids was a bad thing, then surely we are much better positioned now, where ⅓ of Americans support Palestine.
It really wasn't too many years after the Vietnam era that we collectively decided the protesters were all right all the time, but that they were also supported by a vast majority of the public. They never were and it was never even close, but we chose to believe we agreed with them.
There absolutely is going to be another Kent state. Although this time I believe the numbers will split right down the middle between MAGA and everyone else.
But I think at that point it will be gloves off and the whole thing will go up in flames.
The entire Vietnam aftermath is a trip, I remember my dad, who was not a rightwing guy, telling me that troops returning home regularly got spat on, and my understanding now is that really wasn’t a thing? Somehow we managed to turn the people who thought Vietnam was a mistake into the bad guys
I don’t know if this was a coordinated strategy or it’s just how things went, but as a Gen Xer who grew up in the 1970s and 80s, I now believe that anti-“hippie” sentiment was always coded anti-Civil Rights sentiment.
It was made up after the war, and was repeated so many times that a lot of guys have constructed memories of it happening to them. It's a perfect example of how memory is extremely flexible and doesn't necessarily reflect things that happened.
memories of my dad telling me all of his friends from highschool except one died in vietnam, and the one that came back was FUCKED UP. dad was protecting nukes by the berlin wall so they wouldn't let him go to vietnam and he hated that (brainwashed brotherhood bullshit)
"When the Clock Broke" by John Ganz has some interesting information in it on the left-behind POWs conspiracy and its influence on right wing politics.
Mom told dad, who was returning from the Army in Vietnam in Jan 1970, not to wear his uniform bc he would be spat upon. He ignored it and nobody bothered him. He never got any harsh treatment.
For the most part, people today really have no idea. None. In 1972 Nixon took 61% of the *popular* vote. McGovern, the anti-war candidate got 38%, losing almost 2:1. Again, that was the *popular* vote.
Boomers by and large retconned their opposition to the war. Polling at the time showed boomers by and large supported the war, they just didn’t want to fight in it.
The generations that fought in Korea were much more negative on it, iirc.
Yup this idea of "boomers went from being hippies to voting for Reagan" is bullshit. Hippies were a tiny minority of the generation, the rest were conservative losers
Without a hint of irony, it happened in Rambo and was internalised by an entire generation from there. It's not about the US, but I highly recommend Mark Dapin's Australia's Vietnam: Myth vs History for exploring this myth in more detail, esp. chap 4&7. The spitting myth is made from whole cloth.
Check the first Rambo movie. It’s the cops and regular white folk who hate the long haired viet nam vet. The elder generations of veterans hated them for being losers.
My dad wasn’t drafted because he was 4F but all my friends’ dads did and they all regarded their time in the service as the worst shit job they’d ever had and that really colored my view on what it’s like to serve.
This is a very good reminder that American Brainworms (or "The Paranoid Style" as we called it back in the day) are not, by any means, a recent invention.
My dad never told me any stories about how badly he was treated upon returning from Vietnam until recently. The stories were set in one of the reddest places in the U.S., in south Louisiana. I'm 100% convinced that he made them.
students encountered. Students have reported doing this & responses range from hugs to hand shakes to tears to sobs to repeated "thank you" for the thank you.
I remember bringing food to homeless vets out west in the 80s.
The American vet narrative is different today.
But we still need to do more.
I recall returning personnel being called "babykiller" in the airport. I recall people in airports holding signs protesting returning personnel.
I had veterans who formed an alliance with Ron Kovick remind my classes since the 90s to always say "thank you" and "welcome home" to any 'Nam vet my
I mean, people "recall" Muslims dancing in the streets of Jersey City on 9/11. Thousands of Americans will tell you, with absolute sincerity, that they saw this on live TV.
Again, this comment of comparing 9/11 to our Vietnam service personnel's treatment upon homecoming is deeply offensive and is clearly made by an irresponsible person who didn't care enough to check first.
I am older and lived through the conflict.
I remember exactly what I described because I witnessed it, then devoted my life to correcting it.
Further, Bob Greene's Homecoming deals with exactly the likes of you, born right of your attitude.
Have a great day.
Jerry Lembcke's THE SPITTING IMAGE, mentioned above, debunks HOMECOMING pretty thoroughly, & it was regarded as dubious even at the time. Greene made no attempt to corroborate any of the firsthand accounts submitted by vets, and the contributors were highly motivated to discredit the peace movement
This seems like one of those liberal retrospective opinions. Liberals are against any war, but the one going on right now; liberals are for the protests, except for the ones happening now, etc.
The difference between then and now which I think *might* affect perceptions is the visual connectivity between people is so much stronger via online videos and SM links, compared to an evening broadcast where Walter Cronkite related the day's events.
I remember it quite well. I was in 8th grade. The shock of the event and the shock that so many agreed it was ok to shoot students. It’s one of those things you never forget.
Ten years ago I interviewed a Vietnam vet for a story I was working on and he proudly told me that he and his friends cheered when they heard about Kent State
Having lived in Kent, Ohio, I'll say that the Townies have never forgotten (or healed). It's still talked about, there, and people are a bit more on guard about invasions by their own military forces.
As someone who currently lives in the area, there are a strangely high number of students there that are GIGANTIC Trump lovers. A lot of townies and businesses there are progressive. I feel like every day on Campus there’s some weirdly right-wing political thing happening.
There will be even more casualties this time
Law enforcement seems to be following all of Trumps orders regardless if they are against the constitution. It is really sad that as a Canadian I have a better understanding and respect for what the founding fathers wanted than Donald Trump and his cult
When will liberals finally realize that people just have their own lives to live and don't get scandalized by things that scandalize us? We have to work to get people wound up, and pissing on them doesn't really do the trick, after 60 years of trying.
Yup. If you ever find yourself debating the merits of extrajudicial murder, you're on the villianous side of history. Drone strikes are the shortest route to figuring it out today... "oops, we ACCIDENTALLY bombed a wedding party in a country we're not at war with, cuz Law And Order!"
Enemy combatants as a catchall moniker to elide war crimes in the forever resource wars we had to line the pockets of energy magnates & weapons manufacturers probably should've set off more alarm bells?! But passing the "tough on terrorism" purity test for cons sure did pay off for dems...oh wait...
1200 construction and office workers attacked students protesting the shootings 4 days later in New York City. Nixon invited the workers to the White House! The rot has been doing its thing for a while.
I was in college then, and in a phone call from home, my father said to me "Goddamn college kids got what they deserved." My brother home on leave from the AF heard that, left the house and didn't contact my parents for 2 tears. I never had a good relationship with my father after that.
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/military-mission-for-sealing-the-southern-border-of-the-united-states-and-repelling-invasions/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/24/polling-student-protests-vietnam/
https://bsky.app/profile/brendelbored.bsky.social/post/3lmsaztvmkk2d
https://www.kent.edu/art/news/remembering-may-4-interview-devos-jerry-casale
But I think at that point it will be gloves off and the whole thing will go up in flames.
no they didn't get spit on
Seems like America does a lot of that - believing folks who clamor and lie for war and vilifying those who seek to avoid it.
Maybe it only happened a couple times but just became a part of our history through repeated telling of just those couple incidents?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spitting_Image
The generations that fought in Korea were much more negative on it, iirc.
https://youtu.be/m5WJJVSE_BE?feature=shared
Until MAGA and Trump I met anyone who’d disparage military service or troops.
I remember bringing food to homeless vets out west in the 80s.
The American vet narrative is different today.
But we still need to do more.
I had veterans who formed an alliance with Ron Kovick remind my classes since the 90s to always say "thank you" and "welcome home" to any 'Nam vet my
But it's not true. It never happened.
I remember exactly what I described because I witnessed it, then devoted my life to correcting it.
Further, Bob Greene's Homecoming deals with exactly the likes of you, born right of your attitude.
Have a great day.
Simply put, Americans are happy to rule others but are furious when the boot is turned on them. It’s time to turn the boot on them.
"Who wants people shot?"
That said, you’re way overoptimistic about the politics of the area like idk, Ravenna or even Stow.
Law enforcement seems to be following all of Trumps orders regardless if they are against the constitution. It is really sad that as a Canadian I have a better understanding and respect for what the founding fathers wanted than Donald Trump and his cult
Guyana has come to America and, courtesy of us, the world.