this is why shipping migrants to third party countries is inherently a due process violation. it very literally removes them from the realm of legal process entirely. - ThreadSky

notalawyer.bsky.social • 1 day ago

this is why shipping migrants to third party countries is inherently a due process violation. it very literally removes them from the realm of legal process entirely.

Reposted from southpaw

The Trump administration claims the right to throw a man with legal status into a black hole Central American prison, affording him no due process, to admit afterward it was a mistake, and then to get snide with the judge who tells them to fix it.

Comments

a-man-has-no-king.bsky.social•1 day ago

So if they admitted their mistake, sounds to me that they can be sued into oblivion by the family.

tw88dled88.bsky.social•1 day ago

IT WOULD NEVER BE A PROBLEM IN CANADA! Or england! This is doing nothing but creating more problems for an already troubled America.

daniel22223333.bsky.social•1 day ago

Exactly. Lawyers can't ask clients to do what the lawyer can't ethnically do, so how can #Trump's White House ask El Salvador to do what the WH can't ethically do (keep a person incarcerated without due process)? I know the executive branch isn't governed by state bar ethics rules, but c'mon ...

mrsdoos.bsky.social•1 day ago

FUCK THIS SHIT!!!

pygmalion55.bsky.social•1 day ago

100% since they would probably make the same claim about cases like that, but this guy actually was deported to his home country (El Salvador) they just "accidentally" ignored an immigration judge's order not to.

matatoeslasagna.bsky.social•1 day ago

The "right to have rights" is first challenged to migrants and refugees because it primes the public to accept stripping legal status to ALL citizens and to rule the public with an omnipotent and lawless police force

cynthiasaysboo.bsky.social•1 day ago

Which is why they did it.

choamchomsky.bsky.social•1 day ago

feels like the next democratic president needs to do something about bukele, and while I would like an answer better than "drone," I am also not opposed on principle to "drone"

micahismyname.bsky.social•1 day ago

Better than drone is “fucking nuke” actually

choamchomsky.bsky.social•1 day ago

actually no El Salvador is a country of six million people and I’m interested in consolidating an effective counter-revolution to re-establish democracy rather than just wreaking bloody revenge on people I don’t like.

sissyphus.bsky.social•1 day ago

Who said anything about nuking El Salvador ?

jlindy.bsky.social•1 day ago

This is why we made the sword missiles.

Choppity chop.

kvetchrelease.bsky.social•1 day ago

Take him to the nearest Esso station.

paralipsis.bsky.social•1 day ago

I think we need to respect his Latin American despot culture and at least give him a helicopter ride.

choamchomsky.bsky.social•1 day ago

look I’m not trying to be bloodthirsty here, this guy is just part of an international fascist pact and is going to oppose any attempt to rebuild America post-trump. If the next Dem president actually is interested in bringing Trump administration figures to justice he will shelter them.

alayazbvegan17.bsky.social•1 day ago

Send them ALL, tRump and his cronies to the HAGUE!

dynamoxie.bsky.social•1 day ago

His lawyer said on the news that they were asking the judge to rule that the US had to *request* he be returned, but the chatter is all focused on jurisdiction, which might be irrelevant, anyway?

I can't find an article with the text of the judge's ruling, though.

https://youtu.be/kw7kCANKV2A?si=PkNGfnN42JJUjRvJ

dynamoxie.bsky.social•1 day ago

Also they posted this longer piece today.

https://youtu.be/XEoV7NaJjlM?si=kNVF48g5Aq4HALlA

frankgrimesiv.bsky.social•1 day ago

The judge needs to start sending the lying assholes who made this argument to prison. I'm 99.9999% certain if the Trump Administration says, "hey we actually need this guy back" and send transportation they'll give him back. So...fucking do that you fascist fuck face.

sgcillo.bsky.social•1 day ago

At some point a judge has to call their bluff & arrest some of these arrogant dipshits for contempt & lose them in the system for a while...maybe across the Canadian border...ya know, to show everyone's gloves are off. Cuz the system can't be going thru 4 years of this w/o consequence.

jimjordanosu.bsky.social•1 day ago

The administration has a deal with Bukele to house these men. The men sent so CECOT are being held on behalf of the US government. They can be brought back by this administration at any time. They're choosing to willfully defy the courts. Can we call this what it is, please?

jimjordanosu.bsky.social•1 day ago

Can we hold someone accountable? Anybody? I'm of the opinion that the judiciary should instruct federal marshals to take Marco Rubio to ADX Florence until all these guys are returned to the US.

disinterested.bsky.social•1 day ago

The original Habeas act was designed to punish people for this exact behaviour.

nj2nc.bsky.social•1 day ago

Fear tactics by the Nazis in charge.

themcp.bsky.social•1 day ago

I really hope the judge starts throwing white house people (and I use the word "people" for lack of anything more accurate) in jail for contempt until they find a way to make it happen.

devedy.bsky.social•1 day ago

Adding to the list of "surely this calls for a contempt order" moments we're blowing past

danotbob.bsky.social•1 day ago

They could also make one phone call and get him returned.

mwwaters.bsky.social•1 day ago

Not that I want to be in a Mexican or Puruvian jail, but it’s important to note that El Salvador is de jure in an Enabling Act style state of emergency. It’s fundamentally about using those Enabling Act powers by proxy.

tuesday-nj.bsky.social•1 day ago

Who is responsible for the cruel and unusual punishment he received? They violated the constitution and need to be removed from their government job..

davidpetraitis.bsky.social•1 day ago

I don't see independent reporting of the Press Secretary's astounding statement. Would love to see it.

chrystaaa.bsky.social•1 day ago

yes thats kind of the entire point of the exercise

amandasadiehistory.bsky.social•1 day ago

I expect them to try to execute him before the US gets him back.

sakumar.bsky.social•1 day ago

I’ve been worried that that’s already happened. And the Trump regime knows it. That’s why they’ve been waffling ever since this incident came to light. Recall that the guy was a refugee from El Salvador and not a Venezuelan.

rutherfordbhave.bsky.social•1 day ago

Oh god, you’re probably right.

wheystandard.bsky.social•1 day ago

Here, it is a bit complicated as the guy actually is Salvadoran

jonmarke.bsky.social•1 day ago

1) We *had* jurisdiction, 2) we did a thing, 3) oopsie no jurisdiction.

Citizenship and/or nationality doesn't actually affect 1, 2, or 3

Where are things complicated?

wheystandard.bsky.social•1 day ago

There is no “third party country” here, as mentioned by OP. It complicates the situation because, where for the Venezuelans it’s clear they’re being held at the prison on our behalf, that may not be true with this guy. He’s a citizen of the country he’s now in.

jonmarke.bsky.social•1 day ago

(I'm extremely not a lawyer, if that helps for some reason)

:D

dystopos.bsky.social•1 day ago

Let’s have a look at our contract with El Salvador and see if the administration doesn’t have some leverage if they can be convinced to follow the law.

askquestionsfirst.bsky.social•1 day ago

please consider becoming an ICE legal observer to help these people

natmcpherson123.bsky.social•1 day ago

Can the judge do anything to members of the White House that are involved in this?

suenassaux.bsky.social•1 day ago

Their whole attitude towards the courts from the get-go has been "Yeah? Make me!"

pdub.bsky.social•1 day ago

It doesn’t remove US officials from legal process and the order is for US officials to do something (make efforts to bring the migrants back).

evergreen500.bsky.social•1 day ago

Until SOMEONE holds him accountable, he’s not going to stop.

christianmazur.bsky.social•1 day ago

Now would be a good time for the justice system to show some teeth. Start from the bottom up, one by one.

profusional.bsky.social•1 day ago

That whole exchange is just patently offensive. Oops we fucked up. You get to clean it up all done with some high handed attitude. I have never resorted to hate, but I’m seriously considering making some exceptions.

aeta.bsky.social•1 day ago

Its absolutely the correct and right thing to do to hate Nazis/fascists/authoritarians. Make the exception and hate these people. You don’t have to tolerate the intolerant.

profusional.bsky.social•1 day ago

Oh no, I get it, but I’m kind of a nerd about values and in rendering hate, like real, actual hate feels like weakness to me. Once you surrender to that you become capable of all the things that are being done to other people right now. I’m kind of a weenie.

aeta.bsky.social•1 day ago

I am not going to commit the countless atrocities that these monsters do simply because they have moved me to hate them with their actions, because I am not a monster. It’s not surrendering to hatred to hate people who would kill me or throw me in a camp when given the chance.

aeta.bsky.social•1 day ago

My value and moral system, allows me to hate Nazis while also not becoming one. A system of values these people clearly have no interest or desire to partake in. They fundamentally broke the social contract, they have opted out of politeness and care, so they will be afforded neither.

profusional.bsky.social•1 day ago

Yeah, I get it. I just think never surrendering to hate leads to better outcomes. It actually calls for empathy and a higher level of values. I appreciate you sharing.

aeta.bsky.social•1 day ago

I appreciate this back-and-forth, and I see where you are coming from. I am empathetic to a fault and on most days when I look at these people all I can do is pity they’re sad existence. But as my grandfather would say when he was killing Nazis in World War II, fuck ‘em.

hungrykate.bsky.social•1 day ago

What is the functional difference between this and dropping them in an abandoned mine deep in the forest?

freeformz.me•1 day ago

Let me fix this for you…

this is why shipping people to third party countries is inherently a due process violation. it very literally removes them from the realm of legal process entirely.

ohmylurk.bsky.social•1 day ago

This is 100% the intention. Internment camps abroad, outside of judges’ jurisdiction.

66saver.bsky.social•1 day ago

The nazi concentration camps and most of their acts of genocide took place outside of German borders. it’s a tried and true playbook unfortunately..

yeena.bsky.social•1 day ago

Outsourced concentration camp.

audhd-psychnp.com•1 day ago

I wonder if there was an RFP

haethre.bsky.social•1 day ago

Exactly. And WH can just say “they aren’t a citizen” since that’s apparently all the right cares about.

theradicalfederalist.substack.com•1 day ago

#extraterritorialPurging is a human rights abuse.

brierussell.bsky.social•1 day ago

How is this not a crime against humanity?

notaname.bsky.social•1 day ago

Bukele's response makes it even worse too https://bsky.app/profile/annabower.bsky.social/post/3llzirpckks2u

ecodonata.bsky.social•1 day ago

Dear God.

tomnookyankees.bsky.social•1 day ago

Seems like at this point we should hope some other goverment gets brave enough to eliminate the Bukele government and free the prisoners.

jlindy.bsky.social•1 day ago

They're a pissant tiny regime headed by a dickless loser, so why doesn't someone like Mexico or Spain do the world a favor

jingle70.bsky.social•1 day ago

So they really do think they’re above the law????

sporkyreeve.bsky.social•1 day ago

My Maryland state senator, a conservative, posted a video of himself angry about a proposal requiring ICE to get judicial warrants, just days before this happened

He hasn’t talked about it since

miloramone.bsky.social•1 day ago

Biding our time until they all get a needle in the arm.

wizzyprobs.bsky.social•1 day ago

Not entirely. You start throwing guys in jail for contempt until the one who CAN make them return these guys does it.

darthhippy.bsky.social•1 day ago

It is literally one of the complaints against King George in the Declaration of Independence

jonathanbruck.bsky.social•1 day ago

Judge needs to hold presssec in contempt

alan-grant.bsky.social•1 day ago

I feel so much safer knowing the Press Secretary can make this kind of decision for the American people. I’m certain her sorority is much better versed in immigration law than everybody else on the fucking face of the earth.

ouij.bsky.social•1 day ago

“For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:”

didabrown.bsky.social•1 day ago

Pretty soon it's going to lead to extrajudicial killing, and the administration telling the judge to take it up with Saint Peter.

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