The idea that a president can issue an executive order that overrides Congress, while it may be appealing to everyone who wants TikTok back and agrees that the TikTok ban is a first amendment violation, is actually illegal dictator shit
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I dunno. Yeah, I expect Trump to do a lot of illegal dictator shit. But the federal government under Democrats has been selectively choosing not to enforce certain unpopular drug laws for a while now. Refusing to enforce an unpopular and unconstitutional social media ban,
while I worry what it will do for Trump's popularity and the general acceptance of fascism, is the kind of latitude that we historically grant our presidents. This isn't super norm breaking, imo. Just incredibly boneheaded and embarrassing for Dems for giving him this easy lay-up to a popular win.
Not to mention an unfettered federal government owning 50% of a social media platform when two other platforms are already misinformation machines. State-run media anyone?
But what I wonder is if a president can override Congress and the Constitution, can say a blue state governor just override the president, as long as we're throwing out the Constitution?
He thinks giving a thumbs up to tiktok is going to make him look like the good guy and give him the go ahead to ignore more of the votes of the people and do what he desires. He's the white knight, the good guy, let me do what I want because it's good for you, trust me.
Looking at the text of the law itself, there's a provision for the President to "grant a 1-time extension of not more than 90 days..." (see 138 STAT.956 section 3)
Yes, but official "non-action" won't be in effect until after he takes the oath. Joe is arguably in that boat already because of his statements deferring prosecution of the law.
May be the case (and I agree) but its a bit late to speak out against this now that there's 14,000 public executive orders since 1947 and a untold unnumbered amount of secret XOs that subvert the will of the people as defined in the constitution.
I mean sure and trump has definetely abused the executive power but that genie has been out of the bottle ever since the Bush adminstration used executive orders to push the war on terror
And it sets the stage for doing this in everything. Oh he “saved tiktok” (and then rounds up migrants in camps and imprisons the LGBTQ+ and women who miscarry). “Presidents can just do that”.
It makes you wonder, if the president can willy nilly override a duly enacted law, then why do we have 3 Branches of Government. Of course all the folks who think it’s ok voted for a dictator
We network. We keep information flowing. At the risk of sounding cliché, we keep love and hope alive. It's more important now than ever that we protect the fire.
Holding an app hostage so he can come off as a savior while his administration conducts mass deportations. Chile had Sabado Gogante to distract the people, now the U.S. has an app the kids can't live without.
Chanda is right. This is the first time I've disagreed with your analysis. None of the conditions have been met, and the deadline has passed. I'm not sure that second one is the strongest argument, but it's probably true. It would be an unlawful order. But if nobody is going to enforce the law...
Exactly. Extension only applies to when it becomes law, not after.
Someone just needs to sue as soon as he gives his EO.
From TikTok’s POV and creators POVs, it doesn’t help to make it a flickering lightbulb.
Content markets require stability.
I don't really understand the TikTok ban but I don't really think it's a first amendment violation--I thought it had to do with national security. But yeah--it's definitely dictatorship to override.
So sad!! Left Iran 25 years ago and internet was banned then now I’m in America and same thing. They always start by banning stuff then…. Scary stuff starts
I know a lot about tariffs and trade law and have been screaming about this for months that the president doesn't have power to just implement tariffs unless he makes an egregious power grab on flimsy pretense but the reporting all assumes he can just do whatever he wants. It's already accepted.
It's a more consequential version of Andrew Jackson's quip, "Justice Marshall has made his decree, now let him enforce it." Trump has long seen himself as the movie version of Jackson.
It is 100% unconstitutional. But no one will challenge him because they don't want to draw the ire of young people who use TikTok. Even if they did, his stacked court will ensure nothing will happen. And so the Constitution is a dead letter.
Absolutely! The fact that some US creators didn't get their full payouts or didn't get paid at all on the 15th?! AND apparently, US Tiktok shop videos are still up?! Nah not going back there.
And there are many of us lamenting its loss who absolutely do NOT want it controlled by his corrupt ass. It becomes a govt owned entity, I’ll not be back.
ByteDance ain't exactly a plucky indie upstart, and algorithm and censorship issues on TT were where the terms "unalive" and "the play-button app" were invented (saying things like "dead" or "YouTube" was a violation of their hidden rules, and doing so more than once could get you banned).
The media companies buying the TikTok shutdown is the baseline corruption though. Zuck and Musk are both doing what they claim TikTok might do. Both of them use those platforms as propaganda influence operations.
He could pardon Tik tok of the penalties from keeping it going. And pardon all the ancillary companies keeping it going. Right? He runs DOJ too, could just not enforce law.
But it’s okay to violate our rights so ur good with that come on they have no data breach it’s bullshit all they want is to control like they do with Facebook and insta and google they have control on what we see and can monitor it they can’t do that on tik tok so it’s control and $
If we're conceding that the state can pass laws that contravene 1A then im not sure what we're actually trying to defend when we insist on proper legislative procedure.
The law goes into effect today. Extension is prior to fact not post fact.
Like all things Trump, a simple lawsuit undoes him. And one should be pressed. It’s illegal and SCOTUS has already ruled.
Instability doesn’t help, and that’s what you get w Trump.
Every EO should be challenged. Every one.
House Democrats. Senate Democrats. Biden was sued regularly over his EOs if Congressional leadership thought it usurped power.
Even for not enforcing a law.
1) Congressional leadership, GOP, ain't going to do shit on this.
2) Congressional dems got played on this one. Lose-lose for them on this issue. They might have the political instincts of a gnat but they aren't going to start a battle where if they win a sizable portion of their base gets mad.
1) The conversation was about the TikTok EO
2) ANYONE can file a lawsuit the point was STANDING
3) Not sure why you are trying to dunk when you don't understand the standing/enforcement argument. You just look foolish.
The president can refuse to enforce any law that the Congress won't impeach him over.
Changing the actual laws isn't important anymore, because it's only important what you enforce.
This is probably not great governance, but power mongers don't care about governance.
Suggest you folks all keep diaries.
Historians of Germany find 1930s letters & diaries a very valuable resource.
But hide them and don’t store them digitally!
Yeah, the entire idea of an online or computer diary (such as live journal, back in the day) was so ludicrous to me. Why would I want to store my personal thoughts somewhere that could be so easily lost, or that I could lose access to?
Just keep a file and back it up? Having a file on a flash drive or a hard drive is no different than having a physical piece of paper, and is actually more secure as you can easily copy and make backups in multiple locations
And even with changing protocols that doesnt make data impossible to access. Floppy disk readers are incredibly cheap and USB has been a standard for almost 3 decades now. There's no data storage device from 1995 onwards aside from VHS tapes and CDs that would be especially prone to data rot.
That's because you put them on a floppy disk and forgot about it.
Proper data preservation would be 3 backups, your main backup, one stored offsite in another location, and one cloud backup, with frequent sanity checks to ensure no data rot. Windows can do that last part automatically for you, too
Times like this I almost wish the 5D chess some people imagine politics consists of was real. “The TikTok ban was a brilliant TRAP to get him impeached!!!1!”
Executive Order 9066 locked up my entire family, most of whom were American citizens, including my dad as a six month old baby, and devastated the Japanese American community, so much loss of liberty, businesses, homes, property, dignity, culture etc that is still reverberating in our community
Because doing so often requires turning off their own donors. The Dems have become “Republican Lite” especially with regard to healthcare, minimum wage and pentagon budgets.
It's easier to imagine the president hitting the fuck you button than congress collectively acting in the interests of the people and not passing bullshit laws like this.
Well yeah, like any abusive relationship it isn't all bad all the time or nobody would stay/support it. You only get to be an asshole right out of the gate when you are the grandkid of the original dictator and your powerbase is firmly established.
It's his second time around and he's old enough that if he dragged out court stuff long enough he'd never see the inside of a prison cell. I an really only concerned about Stephen Miller. He survived term 1 and is a weasely little cockroach of a man.
Exactly. I just shake my head whenever someone tells me he “can’t” do something? The real question isn’t whether or not it’s legal. It’s whether or not he’ll be held accountable for doing something illegal.
The bill was crafted in such a way that the president can add or remove tons of other companies from the list with limited effort and only short delays—but TikTok is specifically named so that it can't be removed from that list except by selling shares to an American.
Theoretically, since the constitutionality depends of the "foreign adversary" nonsense, & the president is allowed to largely determine that unilaterally under the bill, immediately declaring China not to be one could work, but what's really going on is a brokered sale to a US billionaire
Just going to point out that if Trump tells Congress to repeal or amend the law, they'll do it, so whether TikTok continues under ByteDance ownership or has to sell to someone (most likely a Trump tech crony) depends on how seriously they kiss his ass over the first hundred days of his presidency.
Lots of these guys are going to end up with Trump and his cronies' boots on their necks and saying shit like "but I said I loved you???!?" when their grifts bump up against Trump's.
Agree- but I mean the soulless grifters.This is their time to shine. Trump while being a charlatan is also a mark for people who care for nothing but profit. His fans have fallen for his dance but his narcissism makes him ripe for picking
Banning platforms for speech, especially when certain kinds of speech are concentrated, *would* be a First Amendment violation. You’re barring certain speech. But the Courts and Congress have created large carve-outs due to anti-communism. This falls neatly within the carve-outs.
It is a stretch to say it violates 1st amendment. It is an IT system with many users. It publishes user input and other users can interact with the input, but it’s the backend system which creates the security concern. The argument to shut it down has nothing to do with what is being said.
Yes, but you are posting about it as well. Surely, there's a decent expectation you'd be willing or even intending to engage in a conversation about it? My bad.
Why is there a decent expectation that I would take time to discuss a point that is explained in depth in eleventy other places and is completely tangential to the original post — with someone I don’t know at all and who is clearly unwilling to do even a little bit of self-education?
this point of view is so tired. dont want people asking you about stuff? dont post about stuff, or just ignore their question. pretending like your time is so incredibly valuable that writing 10 posts is fine but 11 is unreasonable is clownish
As far as I’m concerned, none of these actors are addressing any of the potentially legitimate concerns that TikTok presents, and that all social media platforms present. I think the GOP the Democrats, the president, the incoming president and the Supreme Court, as well as the entire tech industry.
Have dropped the ball on this for the sake of making money. This is all about blackmail and extortion. Our information is still for sale to the highest bitter, and our consents are still being manufactured by the Oligarchs
If E. Z. B .DT. gets involved... no good can come of it. So if that's going to be the case... I'm out Tiktok. 💯 ✌🏻 DT is on some real H ish and it's just the beginning. 😫🙏🏻💙🇺🇸
Which is of course why Trump will do it - because it's a low-stakes trial right out of the gate for what he intends to do with the rest of his presidency.
When Congress rolls over for him on this, he'll know he has carte blanche and will begin earnest destruction immediately.
Americans are going to have to toughen up and give up some stupid shit they’re addicted to, or there isn’t a shred of hope for our count eh. This entire thing is insane.
Trump is breaking the law and ignoring the court, again, and liberals are happy about it. Pampered, spoiled children.
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"Is this socialism?"
"Weird, I thought rich guys were supposed to hate governments?"
Power laid bare.
Truly the Supreme Court with the best far thinking minds /S
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-118publ50/uslm/PLAW-118publ50.xml#d1063e6560
Doesn't this grant him the authority, provided he attests as specified?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/speaker-johnson-2-gop-senators-break-trump-tiktok-extension-rcna188307
Shame that Biden refuses to use that power to do anything truly worthwhile before he leaves office.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/key-facts-from-the-supreme-courts-immunity-ruling-and-how-it-affects-presidential-power
No they can’t!!
So it's not illegal.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/24/24-656/335257/20241216144715913_TikTok%20Inc.%20v.%20Garland%20-%20Appendix%20to%20SCOTUS%20Application%20for%20Injunction.pdf
It isn’t a discretionary extension. The conditions Congress placed on that extension have not been met.
Claiming Trump can determine that a “binding legal agreement enabling a qualified divestiture” exists when it clearly doesn’t is also dictator shit.
Once it's in place, there's no provision/mechanism available to suddenly make it go away.
Instability doesn’t help, and that’s what you get w Trump.
Someone just needs to sue as soon as he gives his EO.
From TikTok’s POV and creators POVs, it doesn’t help to make it a flickering lightbulb.
Content markets require stability.
This. This is the part of the next howmanyever years I'm gonna be so tired of.
As long as they won't impeach him, he can do whatever he wants.
The good news is that this constant pushing against the boundaries shows us a lot of things we should fix about our system.
The bad thing is that those pushing don't actually want to fix it.
#TikTokRefugee here to say that even if the lights get turned back on tomorrow, we can't go back there.
Trust and believe that we will finish what we started.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE
Then you folk should leave. (I was never on TT.)
I hear what you are saying and Im sure we'll try but tbh we definitely lost TT before it went dark.
This is a fucking scary time.
But I'm angry as hell.
Let's not be fooled by the change in messaging.
I could use meta or x for that bs.
Like all things Trump, a simple lawsuit undoes him. And one should be pressed. It’s illegal and SCOTUS has already ruled.
Instability doesn’t help, and that’s what you get w Trump.
Every EO should be challenged. Every one.
Even for not enforcing a law.
2) Congressional dems got played on this one. Lose-lose for them on this issue. They might have the political instincts of a gnat but they aren't going to start a battle where if they win a sizable portion of their base gets mad.
2) ANYONE can file a lawsuit the point was STANDING
3) Not sure why you are trying to dunk when you don't understand the standing/enforcement argument. You just look foolish.
Changing the actual laws isn't important anymore, because it's only important what you enforce.
This is probably not great governance, but power mongers don't care about governance.
Historians of Germany find 1930s letters & diaries a very valuable resource.
But hide them and don’t store them digitally!
Memory and data storage protocols change on a yearly basis, and you often end up with non compatible devices or encryption.
It’s a risk either way.
Proper data preservation would be 3 backups, your main backup, one stored offsite in another location, and one cloud backup, with frequent sanity checks to ensure no data rot. Windows can do that last part automatically for you, too
Welcome to the Brave New World, orange traitor style
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/06/900019185/trump-signs-executive-order-that-will-effectively-ban-use-of-tiktok-in-the-u-s
If the "precedent" is already set, cats out of the bag. Don't try to be the "bigger person" if you can save lives
But they won’t.
When Congress rolls over for him on this, he'll know he has carte blanche and will begin earnest destruction immediately.
#ffs
Trump is breaking the law and ignoring the court, again, and liberals are happy about it. Pampered, spoiled children.