alright I'll just say it & you can yell at me later- I don't like this VP debate. Vance is the anti-charisma candidate, but that doesn't actually matter in a sterilized, curated environment like a tv debate. He's the kind of prep school slug who'll do well here. Walz is a real person and may not - ThreadSky

nameshiv.bsky.social • 153 days ago

alright I'll just say it & you can yell at me later- I don't like this VP debate. Vance is the anti-charisma candidate, but that doesn't actually matter in a sterilized, curated environment like a tv debate. He's the kind of prep school slug who'll do well here. Walz is a real person and may not

Comments

jeremiahrappel.bsky.social•153 days ago

I completely agree with you. I think Walz should back out and say if there is no fact checking then you just get JD Vance. Have fun.

padrock.bsky.social•153 days ago

reminds me of the kaine/pence debate where pence just lied about everything and kaine flailed trying to get people to recognize it

robertstadler.bsky.social•153 days ago

That was always Pence's strength, though, that he could tell blatant lies with utter sincerity. I don't think Vance can pull that off the same way.

dlev.bsky.social•152 days ago

I think Walz is much better attuned to what’s happening than Kaine was

davidwfortin.bsky.social•153 days ago

I think Walz will be fine. This ain’t his first debate and as a teacher he’s seen Vance’s type before. Vance sucked in his debates with Ryan in his Senate race.

mswift.bsky.social•153 days ago

Counterpoint is Walz was a HS teacher so he had lots of practice trying to be engaging in a room of people not paying attention.

megateer.bsky.social•153 days ago

This is what I’m thinking - Walz has a ton of experience with adolescents, I doubt Vance will faze him.

ianrobo.bsky.social•153 days ago

in fact quite the other way ... he knows how to relate to people and Vance has no idea how to

troubeerdourks.bsky.social•153 days ago

Yup. And remember when he slipped in the couch jab when Harris introduced him? Walz can be likable even when he’s going in for the kill. Vance is just a smarmy jerk, and I think he’ll come off that way. Not a single winning moment of the campaign for Vance so far.

ouisequitur.bsky.social•153 days ago

he should do theonion milosevic bit and just eat a big sloppy sandwich the whole time

brad.westness.cc•153 days ago

Really the only possibility that would really move any numbers would be if Walz is able to bait Vance into repeating more deranged conspiracy shit, but unlike Trump I think Vance is disciplined enough not to do that on the debate stage

brad.westness.cc•153 days ago

They'll both stick to their scripts and Vance, despite being an unlikable chud, will have the benefit of being able to lie a bunch without getting fact checked at all. I don't think it moves the needle meaningfully either way

madbastard-v2.bsky.social•153 days ago

I think if Walz starts with, "Well, you want to get rid of the NOAA, you still think that's a good idea, dipshit?", he'll do fine.

nledit.bsky.social•153 days ago

Don't forget that Walz is a practiced politician with decades of experience. Vance is a pure political neophyte whose instincts are extremely bad. Vance is nothing but a power gold digger run by silicon valley. He's another puppet.

keeptheskyblue.bsky.social•153 days ago

Hmm, I read that Walz is nervous about the debate but I think he will do well or at least be a match for Vance. He's a better speaker than Harris at times. 👍🏻

ourobororoboruo.bsky.social•153 days ago

Take comfort in Walz’s years of training of educating teenage students who talk back and try to be smart asses in class, and particularly needing to do this without losing his sense of dignity and authority

darkhofstadter.bsky.social•153 days ago

Conversely, Vance has been on the campaign trail for months and has demonstrated an inability to constrain himself from saying weird/awful/hateful shit. I’m skeptical he will be any different on Tuesday.

joseph-crowley.bsky.social•152 days ago

I feel like everyone assumes walz is new at this. He's a 6 term house rep and two term governor. At a minimum his debating isn't a deal breaker. He's run and won very competitive races. Vance won one race with two sugar daddies doing all the work.

carlnyberg312.bsky.social•153 days ago

Put me down as suspecting J.D. Vance making a career of sucking-up to power has made him the kinda guy who overestimates his talent.

And Tim Walz has more guile in reserve because part of his shtick is to undersell himself.

anydoubts.bsky.social•153 days ago

"Don't make me use my teacher's voice, Mister Vance."

thisryan.bsky.social•152 days ago

Crossing my fingers for a repeat of the energy Biden brought to his debate with Paul Ryan, who had similar advantages but was completely undone by Biden's refusal to take him seriously and constant wisecracking

tom4okstate.bsky.social•153 days ago

I think Vance has a sort of smarminess that may come through regardless though. Something about the way he speaks. Comes across as the hall monitor talking down to you.

reverendjesus.com•153 days ago

I definitely share some apprehension about it, but on the other hand… dude was a high school teacher and coach

reverendjesus.com•153 days ago

I bet he's got some chops we ain't seen yet

panrec.bsky.social•153 days ago

Yep,

reverendjesus.com•153 days ago

Not to mention he was a CSM; sure it was for the National Guard but that's still serious business

thedelfinclutch.bsky.social•153 days ago

WALZ: Here's what we want to do regarding job creation.

VANCE: Childless Haitian women are more savage than the males, and have torn out nineteen throats at bus stops. Harris and Walz encourage these murders.

WALZ: Um, what the heck are you--

FOX: Vance destroys Walz in immigration debate

morticia91.bsky.social•152 days ago

Especially since CBS said they wouldn't fact check anything. That's horrible.

roxannedarling.bsky.social•152 days ago

For Real! Especially now that CBS has announced, they will not be doing any fact, checking instead of relying on the candidates to check each other. Total BS in my opinion.

barbedelman.bsky.social•152 days ago

walz may be genuinely loveable, but he’s been in politics for years. he’s sharp & he’s smart. vance has no secret weapon to look good. even magats hate him.

ziibiing.com•153 days ago

As someone who has seen Walz in that kind of environment, I’m guessing it’s going to look much more like a stern dad giving an out of control kid a good talking to.

He’s not my favorite person, but he’s a pretty great communicator.

peregrinekate.bsky.social•153 days ago

I’m hoping for a constructive version of “There you go again” from Coach Walz.

biz5th.bsky.social•152 days ago

Harris was very well prepared for her debate. I have faith in the campaign and Walz to do the same. Not sure Vance can reach anyone who isn't fluent in magaspeak. Walz's main job will be "do no harm" and he seems to understand his role. I suspect he will ignore Vance and go after Trump.

lamarrthestrelok.bsky.social•153 days ago

I see your point .But hopefully he won't have too much caffeine before the debate so he comes down some so to speak.

kurjakala.bsky.social•153 days ago

Vance's rap against Walz is that Walz habitually lies and embellishes to advance himself and his extreme agenda. (I know, right?) One can only hope that's what he focuses on, since he won't draw any blood with Walz there to respond. Walz should focus on savaging Trump with Vance's own words.

kurjakala.bsky.social•153 days ago

Play it right, and Trump will be at war with his own running mate for the duration.

coolspeech.bsky.social•153 days ago

Counterpoint: Vance is telling *obvious* lies and has basically admitted that; he’s recently admitted he thought Trump’s first term was an economic failure; and his positions are unpopular. So he is in a hole and is an a-hole.

carbonorchestra.bsky.social•153 days ago

I'm considering not watching for this very reason. Might not be worth subjecting myself to hearing Vance speak for an hour.

filmwonk.net•153 days ago

It's okay to be concerned, but I truly cannot imagine one single undecided voter watching this event.

axelhoyle.bsky.social•153 days ago

I feel like it's gonna leave all of us on here thinking that Vance "won", and then we're gonna see focus groups and flash polls tell us that a bunch of people got their first prolonged exposure to Vance and did not like the experience

djaii.bsky.social•153 days ago

His favorability numbers are already in the toilet though. If it can’t really go down, isn’t the risk that it might go up?

morganfahey.bsky.social•152 days ago

There are still like 20 points of “undecided/ don’t know” in those polls, he has room to move from toilet to sewer

nucleotyde.bsky.social•153 days ago

I see your point, but Vance has whiffed every softball and layup he's been given in public appearances so far. He's really bad at this, and his unfavorables are so high that I expect most people will be actively rooting against him.

ellz.bsky.social•153 days ago

I hear you but I have decent hopes that Walz can stand strong

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•152 days ago

this is correct because Vance has never done anything in his life but make fascism sound good & true & common sense, while Tim Walz has met the complex responsibilities of public service for decades and knows things are harder than they sound

it's a trap

rincewind.run•153 days ago

yeah I think people are expecting a Trump/Kamala level thrashing because Vance has been the butt if so many jokes but his brains aren’t leaking out his ears the same way

bobbylewis.bsky.social•153 days ago

walz is likable and vance is not, i think it will pretty much come down to that

proptermalone.bsky.social•153 days ago

people do not seem to improve their opinion on Vance as a result of exposure to him

agtmadcat.bsky.social•152 days ago

This is the perfect Victorian-era burn.

eke.bsky.social•153 days ago

he is so prone to getting snippy and nasty the second he is even slightly challenged, it seems impossible to think Vance cannot come across like a raging prick across a full debate

pacquah.bsky.social•153 days ago

But there's going to be no fact checking at all, so he can just flood the zone with shit while Walz is encumbered with both pointing out the lies and telling the truth himself.

proptermalone.bsky.social•153 days ago

I don’t think telling ridiculous lies has worked out great for Vance so far tbh

rincewind.run•153 days ago

yup

people aren’t going to come out of it going “wow this guy has no idea what he’s talking about it” but they very well may come out thinking “wow what a huge asshole”

that said it IS the VP debate and won’t matter that much either way

cyneheard.bsky.social•153 days ago

A good night would be around Obama's "proceed, Governor" debate against Romney.

blopeep.bsky.social•153 days ago

We shouldn't underestimate Walz here - he's been elected a couple times, including in a hotly contested gubernatorial race against an anti-vax doctor.

Walz is incredibly smart and is able to connect with voters in a way Vance can't.

CBS's abdication of duty, however, is the real problem.

blopeep.bsky.social•153 days ago

FWIW, I keep trying to type "Vance" as "Vanz" - a misspelling of Wanze. That translates to "bedbug".

Ah, Freud. You never leave me.

geographile.bsky.social•152 days ago

Buttigieg is working on the debate prep with him, which will help a lot.

rjdeal.bsky.social•153 days ago

And CBS telling them to “fact check each other” completely hobbles Walz. Walz will have to spend every moment of his time to debunk the firehose of lies that Vance will spout. Thus, the only thing viewers will remember is what Vance says. Walz will be critiqued as not saying anything.

catfrat.bsky.social•152 days ago

But Walz *doesn’t* have to debunk all the lies. We need to start calling these things something other than “debates”; there’s no winning by refuting every point in your opponent’s Gish Gallop then making a counter argument. What Walz need to do is rattle Vance and make him look like an asshole

rjdeal.bsky.social•152 days ago

Walz shouldn’t have to work too hard to do that. Asshole is Vance’s default personality.

dianetucker.bsky.social•151 days ago

Exactly. These "debates" are more like a reality TV show than a college debate. Ultimately, the only thing that matters is which guy the viewers like best.

danielsand.bsky.social•153 days ago

Vance will gish gallop all over the place and take advantage of CBS’ refusal to fact check.

He will be bad at it. But he won’t be an utter disaster like Trump. It will be a wash, which the NYT will somehow twist to an overwhelming victory for Vance.

garlaxweaselking.bsky.social•153 days ago

I’m more thinking of Biden’s debate with Ryan. Ryan was a *serious thinker* after all! And he was totally unprepared to deal with Biden shaking his head and laughing.

plognark.bsky.social•153 days ago

These fuckwads really do need someone to constantly call them out on their horseshit.

Walz is probably up to the task, but he’s going in with the disadvantage of not being able to just make shit up like Vance.

xehtfodrol.bsky.social•153 days ago

And it doesn't help that, because it's more likely Vance won't fumble, CBS has decided to not fact check anything said.

walichan.bsky.social•153 days ago

Have you actually watched Vance say anything? He will not do well there. Way to sound like an NYT op-ed.

jbhawk.bsky.social•152 days ago

OK. It appears that you might be an anxious person. Other than trying to make other people anxious, what's the purpose of this post? Those who want to see Vance as the creep he is will see that. Those who want Trump to win will think he's brilliant. Walz will handle himself just fine

chemotaxis.bsky.social•153 days ago

I think if Walz can just memorize a bunch of the JD Vance quotes about how women are supposed to be baby factories that keep popping up on old videeo he can probably do some serious damage

nameshiv.bsky.social•153 days ago

Couchfucker is an internet era child who knows exactly when and how to land zingers for a low engagement audience, feels like walz is disadvantaged here and if there is to be no fact checking, well, theyre lobbing a softball for maga to attack from the get-go

dazedjames.bsky.social•153 days ago

Vance has as much charisma as a wet fart, regardless of venue

raccoonpicnic.bsky.social•153 days ago

I think you're falling for Walz's image here a little bit. Walz is the guy who popularized the "weird" moniker. He knows what he's doing.

louisathelast.bsky.social•153 days ago

On the other hand, I think it’s hard for Vance to not feel like a repellant little slug, and Walz is so transparently decent I think the contrast will be stark

moxiefurious.bsky.social•152 days ago

Also, Walz is a teacher. He knows how to handle repellant little slugs without getting rattled.

kmellifera.bsky.social•153 days ago

Slug v Decency

dkeldsen.bsky.social•153 days ago

Slug versus salt of the earth. Just saying.

nhallerwilson.bsky.social•153 days ago

I’ve always thought of the gop and esp. Vance and rump as blood sucking disease spreading ticks

We insult slugs when we call Vance one 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

dlev.bsky.social•152 days ago

This shouldn’t be that hard of a choice, but apparently is 🤦‍♂️

shinylion.bsky.social•152 days ago

The lack of fact checking is so irresponsible.

respecter.bsky.social•153 days ago

The winning strategy is for Walz to smack that smug little nazi around

mattlevy.bsky.social•153 days ago

I admit, I’m not looking forward to the debate

gregwalk.bsky.social•152 days ago

Walz wouldn't have lasted a career in the Army and made it to CSM if he couldn't land zingers on little shit balls like Vance.

Plus HS teacher and football coach? He's perfectly equipped to deal with couch fuckers.

herculinds.bsky.social•153 days ago

I thought at first just fight fire with fire and make shit up about Vance to ultimately make a point. But, then I can see all the bad faith chyrons and headlines like "Walz tells nothing but lies at debate" without the slightest irony.

jamesfrye.bsky.social•153 days ago

I’m hoping that Walz will channel his 15 years as a lunchroom monitor when the bratty kid tries to talk shit. It may be the perfect prep for this debate. (But, yeah, I hear ya…)

jennvg.bsky.social•153 days ago

The unchecked lying concerns me. JD will likely get more points. The optics of the contrast may make that irrelevant. Or so I’m hoping.

airball47.bsky.social•153 days ago

Perhaps, but I think there’s also a great possibility that his one liners will make sense to those who have steeped their brains in infowars but not to normies.

geauxblue.bsky.social•153 days ago

I don’t think it’s worth getting too high or too low about the VP debate. Presidential debates rarely matter, and VP debates REALLY don’t matter in terms of voter impact. I think Walz will do just fine but it won’t make much difference.

gojira65.bsky.social•153 days ago

This is the right take. The Trump base doesn't even care about Vance, and Walz is already part of the excitement around the Harris campaign. If anything the debate may expose them both to more people, but voters are looking at the top of the ticket to determine their preference anyway.

geauxblue.bsky.social•152 days ago

Yeah. The most brutal VP takedown moment ever was probably Bentsen’s “you’re no Jack Kennedy” line. Then Bush/Quayle went on to win 426 electoral votes.

gojira65.bsky.social•152 days ago

Indeed!
https://bsky.app/profile/gojira65.bsky.social/post/3l5clw3asox2s

joekatz45.bsky.social•152 days ago

This is the most important takeaway: only the truest of sicko (complimentary) gives the VP debate an ounce of thought

rincewind.run•152 days ago

yeah, nobody actually changes their mind based on the VP debate

sometimes they’re fun though, Biden laughing at Paul Ryan is one of my favorite political moments ever

sonomalass.bsky.social•152 days ago

This is still my favorite moment from a VP debate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYAZkczhdMs

beaverstanacct.bsky.social•152 days ago

That is widely credited with turning around Obama'12 of course, but that's the absolute ceiling of a VP debate.

Walz's ceiling is going to be in rephrasing insane Vance policy cloaked in wonk-speak into something generally understandable as completely insane.

csmith09.bsky.social•152 days ago

Biden: "Thats a bag of stuff"
Moderator pressing: " What does that mean?"
Ryan: " dont worry, its Irish"

madhominem.bsky.social•152 days ago

I mean there's a nonzero chance JD says something out loud like "of COURSE white people are superior, but..."

apocalypticanow.bsky.social•153 days ago

I agree. If Vance does well, he produces some clips that may drive down Walz's favorability ratings but he's only the running mate.

If Vance does poorly, the internet will get another week of jokes at his expense. But it will change few minds about Trump

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