There are no cheers. No noise. Silence. I've never seen a victory like it before in my life. This sense of growing recognition and moral responsibility.
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Thank you for your coverage Ian. I’ve been hoping for this for many years. Much work ahead but so pleased at the result. Big Origin Story fan! And ferrets of course
Thanks Ian.
So good to see Parliament able to do what it’s there for, rather than being bypassed as we’ve become accustomed to in recent years. Am also relieved the religious dogma-based arguments didn’t prevail (so far, at least). By the way, worked a treat on this app.
Somewhere back in the thread I said take some time to decompress dude because I have conversations with employees who have experienced so many harrowing moments and memories like this daily and I've realised with me it hits harder after the event upon reflection so give yourself that break.
Thank you Ian, for watching and summarising this debate.
It has cleary been very moving for all involved.
Excellent summary of a very difficult debate.
I would like to see dementia included in discussions going forward. Advanced dementia can be a living hell.
This capacitated one is hard enough to come up with these good safeguards. Advanced dementia? That's turning the health professionals charged with the MCA turning into an actual executioner. Better off targeting non-palliative but extremely debilitating situations like Tony Nicklinson
I would like to see dementia included in the debate.
People with dementia know what their fate is, they know there is no cure. They fear the advanced stage.
My point, and I do have one, is that it is terminal, and while they have capacity, ways could be considered to make provision.
This has proven a difficult topic. In Belgium, euthanasia was legalized in 2002. It’s still not legal for dementia.
In The Netherlands, it is possible by an advance directive (when still decisionally competent)
However, patients have a right to say no. But in advanced dementia, ppl can’t anymore.
Thank you for that.
It seems even more cruel that with some illnesses, if you were to choose the manner of your death, with no way of knowing at which point you might lose capacity, you may have to go years earlier, to make that choice.
Also it would still be abroad, under this bill.
Thank you for covering this. I've found it very hard to follow the discourse due to a very recent, very brutal loss through cancer. When you understand the realities, allowing AD is the only compassionate choice. I'm just sad that we haven't been brave enough to do this as a country sooner.
What's both wonderful and at the same time arse-bitingly frustrating is that they bloody well CAN (almost) all be grown ups, when they want to be. A collective banging-together of heads is required next time the house goes all jeering posh schoolboy.
Thank you, Ian, for reporting this as I could not watch it. I am very pleased with he vote, although somewhat surprised at the large number of No votes, against moving the Bill to committee stage. We are nowhere near the end, but at least we are progressing.
They are going to reduce support for old and disabled people and will nudge them along into „voluntary“ death. Watch them change the narrative about „burden“ and „written off“…
Ian, I’ve been following this thread on and off since this morning and your commentary had the thoughtfulness, respect for difference and dignity that was so needed today. Thank you, it was much appreciated
Thank you for this fine thread Ian. Very helpful for the time-pressed among us, and so moving to read. Aptly captures a very strange and welcome sense of parliament a) being respectful, and b) mattering.
And then, because this is arguably the most preposterous country on earth, Speaker Lindsay Hoyle says: "Right, thank you everybody. We're going to move on to the ferrets bill if people wish to leave."
Thank you, Ian. I couldn't, and didn't particularly want to, watch it myself, but it was very helpful to check in occasionally until I lost my connection in the pub
I don't know, that's one of the things I love most about this country, that we slide from sublime to ridiculous without missing a beat.
Like that scene in The Royle Family where the room is stunned into silence by Joe singing a heart rending song only for someone to say "I can still smell dog shit!"
If ever there was a moment where he could have said a few words about how difficult the vote must have been and thanked them for their diligence.
But no… ferrets
To be fair it’s really focused on the long standing issue of animal welfare but like all good chairs he knew we would all be rather affected by the previous 5hrs so the chance to lighten the mood was helpful
And Puppy, Kitten & Ferret Smuggling also passed 2nd reading & is being supported by Gov 🥳
Thank you for your account. This is such an important issue and I'm so glad it is finally being had. Those who fought and died for it are here too. I'm talking it through with my daughter who is against it. It's amazing that our parliament is able to discuss it so sensibly and carefully.
Thank you so much for doing this, Ian. Your context and reporting is fantastic. I watched some of it on TV and like you say, I don't think I’ve ever seen a debate like it. A properly functioning parliament.
I wonder if Starmer will be given any credit for his crucial role in this. I don't understand the procedure but it's clear without expressing any opinion, his support for this debate is what ultimately made it happen.
Mr. Dunt, thank you very much
You've done a hell of a wonderful job; as the MPs in the Commons have
This reminds us that, from time to time, Parliaments do function
'He spoke of a man who had been reduced to committing suicide by walking in front of a train. He waited until 2am so he could minimise the interference to commuters. For some reason I found this act so affecting I was temporarily overcome with emotion.'
Perhaps if MPs were given a free vote on everything it would improve all parliamentary debate. Just imagine if they had to work for their money by listening to the arguments and voting for what they felt was best for the country, instead of merely toeing their party line and yahbooing the others.
Why a good PR system and changes to whipping would work
Effectively every MP would need to be convinced each time
Be nice if there was more cooperation and striving for win-win compromises rather than ‘yah-boo’ shouting
I listened to some of it on R5L and wondered why all debates couldn’t be like this. I don’t want boo-ha politics, members shouting and braying. I want reasoned debate that actually informs as this one did. I learnt a lot from the speeches I heard. Thanks for the earlier posts and this summary.
I felt moved by the sincerity that prevailed in the debate in the Commons today; it was a good day for democracy; a proud day for the tenacious & principled MP Kim Leadbeater who sponsored the bill so expertly.As for the PM, quietly he followed through on his promises & Parliament is better for it!
Ian, simply brilliant real time summary - many thanks for doing this. I’m so relieved that the Bill will progress, and that I subscribe to your excellent newsletter.
Thank you for the thread, Ian. Started reading it live on break at work this morning and just finished the rest just now, in an absolute flood of tears on the bus home. Possibly partially Black Friday retail trauma. But the humanity of the debate you described, and the hope of adult politics...!
The mother of parliaments gave me hope for representative democracy today in the era of backsliding. We appear to be still able to decide on difficult matters collectively. Having read your book "How Westminster works and why it doesn't", I appreciate the rarity of this moment. It needs celebrating!
Thank you, very interesting, look forward to others, although I suspect that they will not necessarily be as thoughtful and grown up (I mean the debates, not your comments)
Well done Ian. I’ve come to it after the vote but you’ve précised it brilliantly and respectfully (for all sides surprisingly). Probably not the same numbers as the other place but please don’t make it your last on here .
Thanks for the thread, Ian. I didn't listen to the debate but from your commentary it appears the debate brought the best out of the UK parliament process. Maybe the free vote helped improve quality of discussion and increased empathy? Either way, thanks for your time and thanks to the MPs too.
Thanks Ian, persuaded me to switch to a paid subscriber to Striking 13. Was a little worried that I might not qualify for the "fuck all" promo but pleased to see it's still in force!
I ditched The Other Place a while ago, semi-reluctantly tried Bluesky, and reading this thread reminded me what used to be great about Z the small blue bird...
Thank you @iandunt.bsky.social
Even though it's an hour since the vote I wanted to read your thread before looking at the news. Beautifully done; I'm in tears. And a good day for democracy.
@iandunt.bsky.social , thank you for this superb thread. After seeing two family members die suffering (not just pain) this matters to me, but I was travelling all day and so missed updates.
You’re right about the other thing. I much prefer my parliamentary commentary cunt-free.
Exceptional coverage by you. Lots of impressive stuff by our MPs today too. And I may be wholly wrong, but I kind of like the quintessentially British lunacy of going to the ferrets bill next. The mixed up nature of life, with the relative triviality sitting alongside a profound discussion of death.
Comments
So good to see Parliament able to do what it’s there for, rather than being bypassed as we’ve become accustomed to in recent years. Am also relieved the religious dogma-based arguments didn’t prevail (so far, at least). By the way, worked a treat on this app.
It has cleary been very moving for all involved.
Excellent summary of a very difficult debate.
I would like to see dementia included in discussions going forward. Advanced dementia can be a living hell.
People with dementia know what their fate is, they know there is no cure. They fear the advanced stage.
My point, and I do have one, is that it is terminal, and while they have capacity, ways could be considered to make provision.
In The Netherlands, it is possible by an advance directive (when still decisionally competent)
However, patients have a right to say no. But in advanced dementia, ppl can’t anymore.
Out of 9068 euthanasias in 2023, 336 were dementia related, of which only 8 in an advanced state.
It seems even more cruel that with some illnesses, if you were to choose the manner of your death, with no way of knowing at which point you might lose capacity, you may have to go years earlier, to make that choice.
Also it would still be abroad, under this bill.
Almost restores my confidence in parliamentary democracy after the last 14 years of complete sh*t-show.
I love our country all the more.
Probably.
Great effort today!
🐀
Otherwise whats the point, seriously.
Like that scene in The Royle Family where the room is stunned into silence by Joe singing a heart rending song only for someone to say "I can still smell dog shit!"
(dammit)
Anyway, thanks for your hard work. Much appreciated.
But no… ferrets
And Puppy, Kitten & Ferret Smuggling also passed 2nd reading & is being supported by Gov 🥳
https://bsky.app/profile/conunitucl.bsky.social/post/3lc362rubdu2e
https://bsky.app/profile/dannychambers.bsky.social/post/3lc45jv22sk26
This was the single most impressive parliamentary debate we've seen in years.
https://iandunt.substack.com/p/assisted-dying-triumph-for-reformers
You've done a hell of a wonderful job; as the MPs in the Commons have
This reminds us that, from time to time, Parliaments do function
https://skywriter.blue/pages/iandunt.bsky.social/post/3lc37ekdsk226
But some governing out of Government.
Nah, don't believe it. :)
A day to be remembered for the right reasons.
Effectively every MP would need to be convinced each time
Be nice if there was more cooperation and striving for win-win compromises rather than ‘yah-boo’ shouting
If you want to pay for it go here (you get fuck all in returm, absolutely nothing) https://iandunt.substack.com/subscribe
There'll be more. See you soon.
Thank you.
While I acknowledge that there are valid reasons to have concerns about it, I'm glad the bill passed.
I don't imagine you are interested in covering the American Congress?!
Thank you
Even though it's an hour since the vote I wanted to read your thread before looking at the news. Beautifully done; I'm in tears. And a good day for democracy.
You’re right about the other thing. I much prefer my parliamentary commentary cunt-free.
I have no idea why I knew that but I checked and it is true