ok can we please invent a word like ‘soulslike’ or ‘roguelike’ but for games like Outer Wilds and Obra Dinn because it is clearly the best video game genre and should be quantified accordingly
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Metroidbrania is truly such a god awful genre name idea for it. It's like how gen X was called gen X for a reason, and then we lazily went with Y and Z for the next two, and now we're doing alpha and beta.
Metroidvania is also not a good genre name either, in all honesty.
Sotn's director is on the record as not influenced by Super Metroid, and I'm not sure the term is used in Japan, where they understand the history of ARPGs a bit better. I bet this genre has its roots in some pc88 game. They all do.
I agree completely, metroidvania is a bad genre name. Super clearly set the standard before SOTN, and Metroid was always like that, and Castlevania wasn't.
Good catch. Like those Puzzle Detective games from back when. Could call those “Peedees”/“Peedys”. Like PI (private investigator) but PD (puzzle detective)
It's a gorgeous game with an incredible story, told beautifully. I, too, am saddened that I cannot play it for the first time again. But, we can introduce other people to it, and watch them play it for the first time.
A game dev, I don’t remember who unfortunately, called them “Metroidbrania” and I like it so much that I updated Outer Wilds wiki page lol. (It’s since been reverted.)
Despite being a fan of roguelikes, I kinda hate the word.
I like it when the genre tells you a thing that is related to what you will experience in the game, platformer, run'n'gun , shooter, puzzle, mystery,match 3 etc.
Thinglike tends to draw in purists, who get angry because the game is not thingy enough, and can be off putting to new comers who never played thing and don't know if they like thing.
Also, it's a bit reductive. We don't go around saying books are LOTR-likes, we say fantasy.
Despite being in the same genre different titles aim to evoke different experiences. Which feels like if we want to respect the medium, we should recognise.
The setting and scope is smaller than Outer Wilds, being mostly restricted to the ship, but you have a similar approach when it comes to uncovering the story. It's driven by player discovery and you will be able to finish the game even if you're completely off. Nobody checks/corrects your homework.
Amnesiacs? At risk of pigeon holing the genre we're trying to designate, I feel that The Amnesia games, Obra din, and Outer Wilds all have that "you're in a dire, sinister, or otherwise immediate mystery dilemma as they try to solve it with little tutorial or hand holding" kind of game.
I would like to suggest that the best games (like the best works in any art medium) are at least halfway through their conception, possibly halfway through their overall creation, before their creators start saying to themselves "oh yeah, the suits will want me to tell them what 'genre' this is."
My point being: if the game kinda wound up never having a genre label attached to it...well, that's not a bad thing.
The longer I live, the more important I find it is to consume media of all genres and types. With every new thing I try, I actively want to sandblast away at my own preconceptions.
I think a game not having a genre is a bad thing, just because genre is an incredibly important marketing tool. If you can’t clearly and quickly describe a game in like 6 words, people will glaze over and not pick it up.
Fair but I want to be able to find more games like this more easily and someone telling me it was an “Outer Wilds like” would be an instant play for me
Late to the party but ... would it really? Part of what I adored about Outer Worlds is that isn't *like* much of anything. It's like a game from a parallel universe. Its brilliance lies in *not* being like other games, rejecting genre conventions as if they did not exist at all.
Hello. Play my game, plz. It’s a survival horror requiring lateral thinking. It also lies to you. It got Horror Game Award nods and I made it all by myself. Can DM key if you want.
They're kind of a special case of puzzle games. Unlike, say, Portal where you have a sequence of self-contained puzzle rooms, you have giant interlocking puzzles that encompass the entire game.
Maybe "puzzle-world" games?
My friend @avecunp.bsky.social calls them "Knowledgevanias", and turns out it's sometimes used in the french gaming circles !
Cause they're like Metroidvanias but instead of unlocking upgrades it's unlocking knowledge that lets you access new zones.
I also find the term prettier than all others 🤷
I respect that people like these games but I really couldn't get into either of them. I do like Tunic, because there's thr 'normal' path for someone just exploring and figuring out the game and then the 'master path' where someone who already knows everything can beat it another way. (No Sword Run)
I went with 'Wilds-like' for my game. But it's a tough intersection to define... Exploration is rewarded with knowledge. Progression is gated by knowledge. But Outer Wilds is not a detective/deduction game like Obra Dinn, so the overlap is fuzzy.
Thanks for introducing me to Outer Wilds, I’m going to play it now after reading the fascinating synopsis. I spent a few days on Obra Dinn, and it was the best thing ever.
If you can include the Stanley Parable with them you could call them parables. More like the concept of parables where the story is only the beginning of the lesson.
I remember seeing someone on /v/ calling them "pandora's box" games—because the goal of the game is to reveal the grand mystery, and you can only experience that feeling once—and have called those games, and others that fall into the same category, as such, ever since.
Okay but 'Obralike' just feels so natural to say! Outer Wilds...I dunno. Can't go with 'Wildslike' because that's too vague and can literally mean Breath of the Wild or Wild Arms or Monster Hunter Wilds or
would you define it as "a genre in which knowledge is progression", as in.. one in which your ability to interact with the world / skip segments grows as you learn HOW to do so
or is it about the lack of handholding, and how the onus is on the player to figure things out for themselves
I think of how some games I would lump in with this (Myst, The Witness) slowly feed you knowledge, guiding you around a suggested path until you eventually reach the end, but you were always able to finish the game at any time if you just knew how
"Columbo,” a piece of work that requires you to use your brain, even outside of the time you're playing it. To the point you realize something mid-dinner like
trying my best to forget outer wilds exists in an effort to cope with the fact that I can never play it again. never had a game make me wish for dimentia before
I tried playing Outer Wilds a few months ago, got to all the planets, explored as much as I could, and then got completely fucking stuck and felt so dumb. Is there anything that I can do to like...ease the process without resorting to a walkthrough?
You get an Outer Wilds buddy who's a very good hint giver, finding the minimum nudge that will unbottleneck someone while taking the least amount away from their own experience of solving it is an art form. You could try the discord or just stream it on twitch and hope the right viewer comes along.
there's something else in the non-linearity of the solving as well, where the loop gives you space to explore the puzzles in parallel to the game world time over and over, revealing new things to do in the 'past' somewhere else
I'd almost call parts of Deathloop a groundhog-like too
For Outer Wilds especially I really like MetroidBrainia (all the power-ups moving you forward are knowledge rather than items or abilities), but it's not ideal because it requires about 3 steps to explain to my wife what the name means. And she plays loads of games...
I just lazily class them in the "investigation games" genre. And also in the "I would like to love these games but I hate them" because I hate investigation games.
I am with you, or “exploration game.” Is it flawed? Yeah probably, but I think anything else isn’t vague enough to capture the different essences of games in the genre
Algorithms are so scary. I was introduced to you through the min max podcast. Which I’m also new to. And you mentioned you’d be posting this. And then see the exact referenced post on my feed. The CIA agents working overtime
It's called MetroidBrania! Games that are knowledge gated, as in if you know the solution you can probably beat the game in <30 minutes. Tunic was a CRAZY one, even with all the puzzle games and branias I've played it still blew me away.
they're action adventure games genre already and aren't distinct enough to be their own genre idk I'd almost slot them into Zelda-like if you wanna go that direction
I tried Outer Wilds a little while ago, and I think maybe I just don't have the patience for games like that anymore. "Go and explore all around! You'll find puzzles where the solutions are on the other side of the game world! Isn't that fun?" Maybe it once was, when I was younger.
I just call them notebook games. Certain games I love having a notebook where I can write down stuff to remember. Lorelai is another game on that list for me.
i think outer wilds has the same "backtracking with locks and keys" going on as a metroidvania, just the keys are information. i do think obra dinn-likes are kind of a different thing entirely though!
TBH if that's the only difference even old gameboy LoZ games have already done as much. Like a gravestone that gives you the directions to walk in order to break a loop, a plaque giving a code, a note from a prior adventurer telling you to move a rock or do something in a specific order, etc.
I thought this post said Outer Worlds at first, which is a great game. I'm going to check out Outer Wilds now, though, because from what I'm reading, it sounds really cool too.
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8 hrs to beat
10 hrs to 100%
Although, unlike Outer Wilds, progression is unlocked by seeing more of the story.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/653530/Return_of_the_Obra_Dinn/
Minor motion sickness warning: plenty of first-person camera movement in a confined space
Sotn's director is on the record as not influenced by Super Metroid, and I'm not sure the term is used in Japan, where they understand the history of ARPGs a bit better. I bet this genre has its roots in some pc88 game. They all do.
I would have called Gen (2020)
Gen C after Covid
As for the games… they’re Puzzle games. You have to solve the overarching puzzle.
I like the suggestion of Mystlite
If you like this genre you should check out this cool game we are publishing :3
I like it when the genre tells you a thing that is related to what you will experience in the game, platformer, run'n'gun , shooter, puzzle, mystery,match 3 etc.
Despite being in the same genre different titles aim to evoke different experiences. Which feels like if we want to respect the medium, we should recognise.
you're welcome
The longer I live, the more important I find it is to consume media of all genres and types. With every new thing I try, I actively want to sandblast away at my own preconceptions.
But until recently, none of us consumers used to talk about marketing or profits or any of the business aspects of art.
For example, if you were hanging with film buffs and brought up how a movie did at the box office, it would be like an eggy fart in the room.
I support creators. I support them all. I buy literally as much art of all kinds as I possibly can.
But I don't want to fucking talk about marketing, literally ever. Okay?
This is where we run into the fact that "adventure" and "puzzle" are the worst genre categories.
Almost any game with conflict can be called "adventure" and almost any game with ANY puzzle elements can be called "puzzle."
Myst and Tetris are somehow supposed to be in the same genre.
Maybe "puzzle-world" games?
Cause they're like Metroidvanias but instead of unlocking upgrades it's unlocking knowledge that lets you access new zones.
I also find the term prettier than all others 🤷
Columbos?
I’ll get a doc together, let’s workshop it.
Most of the time the labels thrown around as a pejorative but they can be food and outer wilds is probably the best in the genre
KBG
What would you call it?
Distinct from the KGB ofc.
I'll throw "Discover Puzzles" into the ring as well.
Obra Dinn's "what to do" and "why" are pretty clear from the get-go, it's an investigation - with very diverse clues
In Outer Wilds, "what" to do, "how" and "why" are all mysteries to unravel as you progress
I kinda feel like subnautica fit the vibe a bit, too. But those are the only ones I can think of/know of.
Rolls off the tongue
or is it about the lack of handholding, and how the onus is on the player to figure things out for themselves
or both?
I really enjoy Outer Wilds but can only play in short increments as I get motion sick. 😭
I tried playing Outer Wilds a few months ago, got to all the planets, explored as much as I could, and then got completely fucking stuck and felt so dumb. Is there anything that I can do to like...ease the process without resorting to a walkthrough?
Post your shiplog and ask for hints. People there are pro in not spoiling the game for you ;)
Outer Wilds is so good, a music artist wrote a song (a very good one at that) about it:
https://open.spotify.com/track/6is355kYR3V3nx2wHv4M7s?si=oTDg3BI4TJCpxTv8YmhRDw
I'd almost call parts of Deathloop a groundhog-like too
Also check out Lorelei & The Laser Eyes if you haven’t yet.
Dunno KBU is a good genre name, but it's a starting point.
It's absolutely a must-play, though.
It runs on a Nintendo Switch. Wouldn't be that big of an investment.
Naturally.
You return to places you can’t explore once you acquired knowledge about them.
he wrote rogue.
or
Lorelikes
Chill atmospheric games where the vibes of playing it don't overwhelm the stress of any objectives the game might have.
I don't remember in which YouTube video I heard it first, but found two videos that use this term:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkv05ZO7d8I
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl94E5WMOhs
it launched on itch in ‘23 but this version has new art, QoL features, and a new story that is equal in length to the original
(not affiliated, just a fan 😀)
Do you want something better than that? Because I'm happy to take the genre from the horses mouth 👍
One and doners
Try to look up as little as possible about it, because the game IS the process of learning what's going on!
It's so cool!