soulslike is one of those genres where I don't think anyone's ever managed to make one that really hits the same notes as the game it's based on. people have tried. but the From games are the only ones that do it
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isn't soulslike just when there's a random enemy with a name and a big sword, and when you beat him he just whispers "zanzibar... im sorry..." and you never learn about him again
Another Crab's Treasure!! don't let it being bright and colourful put you off! one of the best soulslikes I've ever played. its short and sweet, funny and silly, and oppressive and sad at the same time.
Several music tracks, locations, and lines of dialogue live in my head rent free.
It's because it seems like nobody actually understands what made them good!
They were fun because of the builds, gear diversity, and combat mechanics. But for some reason everyone left class with just "brutal unfair combat and cheap kills, where you lose everything on death"
It's led to entire swaths of games that are just annoying and frustrating at best because they only pride themselves on how often the player dies, rather than how challenged they are and how good it feels to overcomea hurdles
ppl usually use “soulslike” to describe the movement / combat and in that aspect i do think there are a few games that get it right. but speaking as a complete package? there’s nothing even in the same galaxy unless it’s made by fromsoft themselves
This thread is once again making me feel like I need to try Lies of P.. that said I did really enjoy Nioh and there was one other one but they didnt leave a lasting love like Souls does
No joke, every single game influenced by them misses one key aspect of what makes From Soft work so well. Lies of P came the closest and still couldn't quite get there.
Lords of the Fallen was so close to scratching the From itch after elden ring and the world they built was awesome but some of the initial problems on launch just dragged the whole thing down for me. interesting mechanical attempts they made but didn’t feel refined enough to keep going
I think they fixed it since launch. Picked it up really cheap a couple of months ago and had a blast with no technical issues. Late game areas were annoying af though and still don't think it's as good as Lies of P.
hell yeah! i saw they gave it a shit ton of updates which is always a good sign, and i feel like they had the fantasy idea and really good theme it just had a lot of tweaking that needed to be done. i definitely plan on picking it up again and seeing how it is now.
i liked another crabs treasure, not because it matches the fromsoft feel, but because it intentionally built its own identity that feels fresh, like a silly little love letter
I feel like I'm the only one who liked the Surge games, not perfect but they felt a bit more creative than some of the other derivatives, also I'm a sucker for sci-fi
Salt & Sanctuary kinda does that for me. I take my expectations of a souls game, translate them into 2d platformer & then everything makes sense. Combat, world design, lore, everything important feels like it comes from the same fromsoft philosophy (including the esotericism, for better or worse)
I've played a whole lot of 2D soulslikes and Salt & Sanctuary still feels like the best one of the bunch (though IMO lategame when it focuses more on platforming challenges, the quality and enjoyment drops quite a bit).
I think the closest I came to really feeling that "true soulslike" fulfillment was when I picked up Nioh for the first time. If you can avoid getting swamped by all of the numbers and stats the game throws at you, the experience is pretty on par
You definitely hit on a major problem with xyz-likes
Granted, Nioh doesn't sell itself well to new players. All the numbers, labbing, stances, grinding etc. can be a turn-off for a lot of people, so I get that it's less popular. But you can definitely also just ignore most of that and focus on control/pace, and still have a great experience imo
I saw your comment that you’ll play Lies Of P. As a long time soulsbourne enjoyer, that game had me hooked while still feeling like its own thing. I hope you enjoy.
I'm not thrilled about how the industry has been making up new genres based on other games. Maybe I'm just old but everything can be broken down into RTS/RPG/FPS.
it seems like non-from soulslikes just stay too close to what from does without understanding why they do it.
enlighten me if I'm wrong though I only watch my friend play soulslikes
Nioh came very close. Nioh 2 especially imo.
I think "Souls-Likes" are only ever good if they try and do something unique with the genre, probably why I like Nioh so much compared to the others. It was trying to combine the souls formula with a more engaging combat/loot system.
I’ve played fromsoft games since King’s field and Armored Core. There is a certain jank and tone that they weave into their games that is very difficult to replicate. It’s an imperfection that makes it feel more perfect.
The best way I can describe it, is that souls like try to do souls conventions in a Mario style (a linear series of challenges) whereas Fromsoft does them classic Doom style ( a dungeon full of tricks and considered combat encounters )
Lies of Pi is the only game outside of Fromsoft that gets remotely close. There is no beating a Fromsoftware game though. I only recently caught the fromsoft bug in the last couple of years but they have mostly all rocketed to my favourite games of all time.
people will say Lies of P, and I think it's a well made game, but it lacks a creative quality and authenticity that the From games have. they're the real deal.
I chased that high with soulslikes and realized at a certain point that it wasn't going to happen until the next From release.
Thank you. I have a similar sentiment. It's a great game, but it lacks identity, and some of the mechanics are still pretty clunky. I'll definitely play a sequel, though, if they make it.
Ask 10 people what traits define soulslikes, get 10 different answers. I'd argue that many attempts at the genre get caught up on the mechanics. Stamina, slow windup attacks, etc. They forget that Miyazaki doesn't play his games. He's just recreating vibes from stories he read when he was young.
Lies of P is great but i dont think it catches lightning in a bottle. the environmental storytelling is excellent and on-par with From most of the time, but many (not all!) enemies and bosses are forgettable. the boss fights also drag on; both player and enemy health bars should be smaller
Lies of P feels like it has the "maze full of guys" problem. It does come close to capturing the vibe of a soulslike, but I think it doesnt stick that landing fully.
OP said in a separate post that they defined a bad souls-like as a "maze full of guys" where enemies feel almost randomly placed and not put in the area with specific intent or like theyre organically part of the world.
Oh, then I would argue that lies of P doesn’t feel randomly placed. Enemies aren’t just randomly littered about. And the item descriptions and npcs fit in well too. Maybe slightly less organically than DS1, but I would argue Elden Ring and DS2 were more random.
It starts very slow compared to a standard fromsouls and actually gives you time to learn the mechanics. By the final area it’s as close to Bloodborne 2 as we’ll ever get. It’s worth playing!
to me, I think the part people fail at the most is the level design. I described bad soulslike design as "a maze full of guys". just enemies placed almost at random. wheras in a From soulslike, the placement feels unique-
"What if we put a guy right here behind this blindspot that's going to push your character down the pit when you kill the guy in front of said pit?" Genius, unironically hilarious.
-i.e, you will see an enemy and get to know it as "the guy who lives there", "the guy who does that thing",- there's this real sense of specifity that you strategise around.
This made me instantly think of that bastard hiding behind the barrels the first time you enter undead burg. On your left before you get to the bonfire.
Fav enemy placement is probably bloodborne- the hundred-eyes right after shadows fight, before the lamp. Lots of unique memorable placements among the series for sure, but even thinking of my fav non-fromsoft soulslike (lies of p) it doesnt rly compare in this aspect either
wouldn't it be fucked up if you memorised the skeleton's attack patterns and then the 10th time you walk past it it spin attacks you while you have 10000 souls
This but those little horn blowing guys on Miquella’s tree…
Oh you survived the onslaught of bubbles flying at you, how about these ants that drop from the sky? Also you stepped off the edge, GGs maybe next time
one thing From does that almost everyone doesn't is sometimes having A Single Enemy that's not even a boss or miniboss, just one weirdo that shows up in one location and is never seen again. sometimes with a couple friends
Strong agree on this; in FROM's games you always have a good sense of where you are but a lot of copycats seem to think that "more convoluted = better" and make sprawling directionless mazes that are just a pain to navigate. (The Surge 2 comes to mind as one of the most egregious examples)
I think the only similar ones I have played are the recent Star Wars Jedi games, and they are honestly so far removed from it (mainly game feel) that I don't really see em as soulslike. Hoping to start the Nioh games soon, but I can agree no team really nails it the way Fromsoft does.
I agree, and I also agree with everyone in the comments saying Lies of P. For me, that’s the only game that’s come close to matching From’s mastery in the genre.
Mostly agree, tho Lies of P came close to me. There’s still a few off things with the game, but it’s the closest I’ve ever felt to playing souls game not from Fromsoftware
I’d say it’s decently common since most people agree souls likes don’t carp are to real souls games however I didn’t meant for it to be taken as fact. Just that I think it sucks. And id happily defend that point and explain why if anyone just asked rather than attacking me
I really tried with Lies of P and wanted to enjoy it, but I just couldn't gel with it. I didn't like the enemy variety at all and didn't really feel there was much difference in the trash mobs. The world design is beautiful though, it made me feel like I was playing through Bloodborne again.
For me I feel like the most important aspect is getting the world design right - Hellpoint and Bleak Faith are both very janky games, but exploring the world is interesting enough both aesthetically and mechanically that I can overlook it. Setpieces, secrets, time to breathe and get existential...
fromsoft has spent decades developing that formula, while 99% of soulslike only spend one development cycle on it. games that hard hitting take time and many attempts.
I know right? None of them understood its philosophy at all. Even story wise most games just doesn't even get the message of souls games either. So many souls like just says "Death good" and that's it and honestly I think that's probably the most disrespectful thing to souls games ever.
Every other dev made one I've tried tries to innovate and because of it losings what made the originals special, there aren't fancy mechanics in them, they are simple and brutally hard.
I enjoy devs that put their own spin on it. I find lots of reasons to enjoy almost every game in the subgenre - even mediocre ones. I don’t care, fill my plate, I’m hungry for new.
For me, it always boils down to character movement, its the one thing that just never sticks for me, Lords of The Fallen felt too "floaty". I don't know why its the one thing that always puts me off the soulslikes.
It’s the hit boxes in the souls like that don’t do it for me. I hate feeling like my weapon or dodges don’t do anything impactful and it just does statistical damage.
Lies of P is better than at least half of the Fromsoft Soulsborne games, in fact there's innovations in that game that I want Fromsoft to steal for their next game, like the weapon part combinations
Lmfao good point! I forgot about that one and I was only really thinking about the other From Software games. But Lies of P would be right behind Sekiro imo
Also the way the dodge is tuned. I loved the shadowstep in Bloodborne, but the quick step-dodge in Lies of P is so satisfying because it keeps you bobbing and weaving in tight melee range.
Also, sharpening your weapons on your elbow is just insanely cool every time.
I actually enjoy the Koei Tecmo ones, like Rise of the Ronin and Nioh 2, a lot more than the actual Souls games, but that's more because I love parrying more than I love anything else in existence.
Lies of P is then only one that I think succeeds in that department and in some places iterates. It was my GOTY last year and manages to knock level design, combat and weapon customization out of the park.
To give another take: Never liked any game by FromSoft. I played Tunic, and it’s hard enough to challenge some Souls players, but I enjoyed it the whole way through. I think people are too married to the exact Dark Souls formula.
It’s so tough a craft that arguably even moments throughout the souls series have failed to capture the magic! (Looking at some of the egregious DS2 levels)
The OG dark souls world and its interconnected gloomy mystery is just lightning in a bottle 🥹
Fromsoft games always equal more than the sum of its parts. You can nitpick at some of the flaws, but it's the combined result of level-design, environmental story-telling, immersion, customisation and fun combat that just comes together so well.
Yeah and quite frankly the ten million clones that do the same thing but worse and have very little to add to the gameplay loop are getting really boring at least for me.
Hollow Knight hit so many right notes that it’s the gold standard of what a soulslike should be for me. It took the right ideas from souls games and incorporated them to make its own thing. Not a souls copycat, a soulslike.
What sucks about it too is that in the midst of everyone trying and failing to recapture the fromsoft magic other genres are getting left in the dust like character action
Everyone is already saying it...but Lies of P is the only one I've seen get it right...
Every other attempt ive tried I feel is either lacking or changes things so much in a way to where it may be similar but kinda becomes its own thing at that point (Nioh/Nioh 2 are good examples of the latter)
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Several music tracks, locations, and lines of dialogue live in my head rent free.
play ACT!!
They were fun because of the builds, gear diversity, and combat mechanics. But for some reason everyone left class with just "brutal unfair combat and cheap kills, where you lose everything on death"
Not perfect by any standard but I felt it hit the 'tone' of what a Souls-like should be.
You definitely hit on a major problem with xyz-likes
enlighten me if I'm wrong though I only watch my friend play soulslikes
I think "Souls-Likes" are only ever good if they try and do something unique with the genre, probably why I like Nioh so much compared to the others. It was trying to combine the souls formula with a more engaging combat/loot system.
It's incredible
LOTF actually did spells better than any Souls game. Bad performance, and terrible NG+
I chased that high with soulslikes and realized at a certain point that it wasn't going to happen until the next From release.
That said it’s still a good game and playing it in VR using UEVR is awesome. Elevates it to amazing.
Still felt like a good game!
Eagerly awaiting the DLC!!
meanwhile, in Lost Izalith, 6 dragon butts
Oh you survived the onslaught of bubbles flying at you, how about these ants that drop from the sky? Also you stepped off the edge, GGs maybe next time
Also, sharpening your weapons on your elbow is just insanely cool every time.
No one touches them there. Super excited for whatever they cook up next.
The OG dark souls world and its interconnected gloomy mystery is just lightning in a bottle 🥹
Lies of P is the closest in terms of gameplay.
While not necessarily the "essence" of a Souls game, Nioh 2 is by far my favorite as it takes the core concept and still has its own identity.
Every other attempt ive tried I feel is either lacking or changes things so much in a way to where it may be similar but kinda becomes its own thing at that point (Nioh/Nioh 2 are good examples of the latter)