If Mark Carney wins a majority by running a Red Tory campaign, eating the CPC’s lunch and still dummying the NDP, can we agree the left in Canada needs a page one rewrite?
Comments
Log in with your Bluesky account to leave a comment
I think Carney might shift left a bit after winning. I’m actually excited to see how he runs the country. He seems to have a clear focus in his head how to proceed. I think he will present both left and right policies. I don’t think he’s grounded in a party position, which is exciting.
It's one of the coolest things possible in an election, someone runs on a pro corporate platform then is like "suckers! It's expropriation time!"
, but yeah, never has happened, never will happen.
Part of the problem for the NDP was that its MPs supported "quarter measures" on dentalcare and pharmacare, which benefit few Canadians. Canadians who do not have these services do not feel bound to support the something that they don't have. Right now, Canadians have an external problem with Trump.
Jagmeet Singh and the NDP can challenge Mark Carney on improving dentalcare and pharmacare. He can challenge him on the minimum age for Old Age Security. It will still be an uphill battle when Canadians are concerned more about Trump.
I just found out that Mark Carney's campaign will be promoting dentalcare for 18-64 year-old people. This will be an added challenge for Jagmeet Singh and the NDP campaign.
Jagmeet Singh has to go as leader. During his time as leader, he was overly cautious. He did not take risks in running for a seat at the beginning of his leadership. During this parliament, he would constantly threaten to end support for the Liberal government and then support it.
Canada has never had a strong enough NDP government. Can we stop making this about Jagmeet Singh when Canadians have always been gun shy at the thought of giving the NDP any strength at all against Conservatism.
If we had any foresight, we would have been voting more NDP many years ago.
I believe he is currently polling third in his riding. I'd say his days are numbered. It's too bad his ego didn't allow him to step aside last year to bring in a new leader.
Wasn't Mr. Singh criticized by his own party members for focusing the party on himself? Resources were used to enhance his profile at the expense of a robust platform and the broader party? Maybe I'm not recalling this correctly...
I am not aware of the inner workings of the NDP. I did hear that most of the funding was focused on the national campaign as opposed to the local races.
Leadership is a concern for sure. But the NDP needs to learn to speak about average people's concerns in language that is comprehensible to those not already converted. And it has to raise its ambitions to being more than just asking crumbs from the Liberals.
The thread between you and Emmett echoes I think what many CDNs are feeling: that a R of C Lib govt would be just fine in this environment. The Red Tory govt of Gary Filmon, when I lived in MB, was just fine.
I've never voted LIb, being a NDP supporter and now the Greens (oy the Greens).
I had a frank chat with the NDP canvasser who knocked on my door yesterday. I’m happy with the NDP incumbent, but I’m struggling with the calculation in a riding that splits the vote 3 ways. In a unique election, I’m leaning LPC, but my main concern is not-CPC.
Well that Center Right space has been vacant for quite some time. Red Tory/Blue Liberal (Chretien-Martin) have been homeless, Heir Harper kicked out the Red Tories while Trudeau kicked out the social conservatives & likely the fiscal conservatives
It'll be the 1930s all over again. For those not aware, strongly recommend Pierre Berton's The Great Depression to understand how close Canada got to actually having the weirdest version of Socialism imaginable and how badly it fell on its face.
Mark Carney believes in social justice and getting to net zero. He understands that markets are not moral, respects 'values' over 'value' and the importance of earning and maintaining social license and trust in our institutions. If that's being a Red Tory, the I'm a Red Tory.
The left everywhere. I think it will take the disaster that will be climate change to make people realize that lower taxes for the rich and cuts to government services is never going to make their lives better.
If there was ever a time for a truly left party, you would think now would be it. Instead we get the NDP trying to be the Liberals, the Liberals trying to be the CPC and the CPC running a rhyming dipshit that sadly without the Trump threat probably would have won.
Honestly, I’m so tired of a decade (at least) of the NDP aiming for the pro-corporate centre. (And look at Starmer’s Labour to see far the Overton window can go 🤦🏻♂️)
And there’s a real yearning for a socialist party (I’m not saying a majority, but a base you. Could build on).
Step one is for the left to stop parroting the myth that the federal government spends taxes. Attack that myth and you break the strangle hold the right currently has.
Ok Canadian Ezra Klein … ;) it’s me - I’m the problem. the last time I felt hopeful voting for a party leader was Jack Layton. I didn’t like JT, but I was excited to see the end of Harper and now I’m happy to vote for Carney. (Of course, I’m ~15yrs older and way more progressive than I was in 2011.
The left needs to communicate that for the last 70 years Canada has been both target and co-propagator of a massive US-led anti-communist disinformation campaign
If the NDP dumped JS we would be watching in horror, just like we watch in horror at Ontario elections. JS is so bad they’re will be little vote splitting.
Layton winning leadership marks the party shifting into social democracy, but more importantly it was the first leadership vote in the NDP that was decided more for electoral purposes than ideological.
Fed NDP appear to suffer when there is an existential crisis/debate. Think Broadbent who was on track to win until the ballot question turned to free trade and the antis flocked to Turner.
I don’t see why the party of Ed Broadbent and Jack Layton should be allowed to take the history and reputation and the comparatively much better campaign machine and shove us out so they can go Liberal-lite. We seriously need a movement to rejoin the NDP in vast numbers.
Be loud but also frankly you need a willingness to spend a lot of
time trudging door to door and putting signs up. With one practical skill, one social skill, and possibly a truck you can take over the world.
An electoral system that normalizes the idea of coalition governments and mitigates vote splitting on the political spectrum that is ‘the left’ might help … or not …
I wouldn't agree, no. Literally any Liberal candidate (inc. Trudeau) would be riding high now. The leftmost leftist or the rightmost right candidate would be in the same position. Liberal polling is driven entirely by US events and has nothing to do with the PM candidate, who is merely lucky.
Separately, I think Singh doesn't have "it", whatever combination of policy and personality is needed to make real breakthroughs, but the instant situation is due entirely to Trump threats and not NDP failures. I've met NDP communists who will be voting Liberal, it's not because Carney swayed them.
The only story of this election is people flocking to whoever they perceive has the best chance to stop Canada from being taken over by MAGA-North. Full stop, that's the only question. No one is voting on left or right policy, at all.
In the Trump sense, yes, Carney comes at a time of existential threat. Probably Trudeau would be seeing a resurgence too. But mostly it’s because the crisis
gives Carney the megaphone for his ideas for Canada and we are very much liking it.
That argument will certainly be made: "ooh, people love Red Tory policies". But most of the vote switchers don't know one thing about Carney policies. He could be a card carrying communist and would be getting the exact same polling numbers. In fact as Carney changes are publicized, like
the tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy just announced, he's more likely to hurt his numbers than to boost them. Best policy for him is to say nothing except "I hate Trump" until the election, which will give him a landslide victory.
And I disagree- because social media response is off the charts with Canadians discussing ( and approving) his plans for Canada. Who knows what less online voters are responding to but certainly online, people know his policies
He did NOT announce tax cuts for the ultra wealthy. He announced the elimination of a planned increase to the capital gains tax ( which impacts a minuscule number of people) and tax cuts for ALL Canadians
Did anyway. I doubt anyone but Carney could be running this campaign successfully and it’s confidence in him, personally, driving it. But the left badly needs to rewrite and get rid of Jagmeet
Have you by chance listened to Mark Carney's The Reith Lecture Series?
Perhaps you may have a different take on Carney's motivations. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uvw-aC0KLD4
No. What we need is good government, doing it’s best to serve everyone. All I see from Carney so far is smart and focused. Perhaps we should give that a try.
Not even close. He is a very interesting guy. I’ve started these. Not my usual thing but since I may soon be blowing up train lines and bridges I thought I should listen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py8t
Yeah. He is doing and saying what he needs to win but he is moving real shit forward. He believes in climate change, He will have a carbon plan, he believes in strong social supports. Canada is in a very serious pickle right now. Today carney looked like a freaking heavyweight.
No delusion like the delusion of the radical centrist - which is why the US is in the grip of the orange menace right now. Canada was just about ready to jump head first into the mouth of a Milton Friedman acolyte
Carney wouldn’t be here at all had Cheeto not pursued this mashup of McKinley & Polk
That absolutely did shock Canada back to our senses and gave Carney the microphone but no denying Canada likes what it’s seeing from him. He’s going to be good for us.
Humans and countries often don’t change unless we have too , and we needed to get back in the game internationally, with climate change, and get energized with health care and social programs. Just letting workers with certifications move around the country is long over due and will help.
The entire question is what constitutes good government in the first place. Good for whom? Praising Carney before he has done anything to materially improve the lives of the poor or has said anything that would plausibly be expected to accomplish that is based more on hope than on facts
We are facing an economic situation that could literally add millions and millions of people to poor and the unemployed. The only answer to that is jobs and social supports. The only question to ask is which person appears most capable of the 2 people who have a chance to win.
And the lives of the poor, though important is only one thing, because if we don’t deal with the environment immediately Rich or Poor isn’t going to matter.
Would love to see them part ways with Singh if they get washed in the election. No hard feelings, and obviously won't mean an automatic turnaround for the NDP, but it's been nothing but mediocrity and decreasing vote shares with him. Just a directionless party since Jack died
If you want to label Mark Carney a red Tory that’s fine with me—we haven’t had one for a long time. As a card carrying Liberal, I say better a red Tory than that lunatic, extreme Libertarian and nasty person, Pierre Poilievre.
So David calls Carney a red Tory and Carl Marxman calls him a neoliberal?? Really??, these labels are pejorative. Negative nitpicking at this point is useless. Carney is the only adult in the room. He HAS to win NOW. He may not be what we need 4 yrs from now, but he IS who we need right now!
Red Tory is definitely not a pejorative to me but some Liberals might not like Carney being called one. Similarly in the past Tories have been called red Tories by ‘true blue’ conservatives bc they leaned to far to the left.
My point-let’s not give them ammo with any labels except PM. 👍
You may be right, but the lesser of the two evils is still evil. We've been running the neoliberalism playbook since the eighties. Carney's a good person, but he's not going to shake up the status quo.
Patience my friend. Free trade across Canada by Canada Day is a major shake up, something that hasn’t been achieved in decades of whining about the barriers. And I believe there’s a lot more to come from Carney.
You might notice that in the US, feckless liberal presidents who oversee worsening standards of living (Obama, Biden) have been followed by elections that bring in a fascist who says he'll fix things.
Carney's another feckless liberal. If he gets in, he just sets up our next fascist.
The one and only reason we're not looking at a PM poilievre is that this other guy is trying to annex the country, and this has disrupted politics as usual.
Yes, that is happening, and no doubt the cons would win if that weren't the case. But that has been Canada's pattern for generations. One party overstays their welcome and then the other party wins, rinse and repeat. I don't think it's any deeper than that.
That was OK when party leaders were bland and competent. Trumpblew that up, and many people now vote to avoid the crazy while some vote FOR crazy. Policies and qualifications are irrelevant now
The left in Canada has needed a rewrite since Bob Rae was brought down by turning the middle against him (G&M, Macleans, etc), unravelling the worker-social-enviro coalition that had been coalescing. Jack almost got us back on track but he was one bright star when we needed a whole constellation.
The left needs to set the bar higher than just stopping the Conservatives, because all that does is keep the Liberals alive. Let’s start talking about working class politics again for a start, promoting unionization and grassroot social movements.
I hate to say it and sound mean, but Jagmeet has just been very lame for a few years now. I wish he had the energy of Bernie or AOC. Too much limousine-socialist vibes.
I generally vote NDP or Green. This time I will vote Liberal for fear of PP winning and taking us down the MAGA road. I have no desire to see my country sold out to Trump and Musk. It has nothing to do with the other parties or their leaders.
It has only existed as it is now since 1996. It was Liberal for 3 terms, Conservative for 3 terms and Liberal for three terms. If that pattern holds it’s due to turn Conservative. Really it’s too short a time to be a true pattern.
*nod* Yeah that sounds like it tends to go with the fortunes of the parties at large, so your odds are decent at getting a Liberal this time. I’m lucky, we NEVER go Conservative.
The replies have been a bizarre trip. The original post seems like a clear call for the electoral left (the NDP and the like) to unshackle itself and do actual leftist politics. And half the commenters are just in the tank for Carney? No one here understands the ask.
I wonder what's going to be the push to do it. In Ontario, we're seeing some unions outright endorse the Conservative government. The farmers aren't it this time. Regular office workers? A massive union push?
We can already agree that, but then again, Canada needs a different culture all together. The fact is that most people care more about money and consumption than health, well-being and community, and most think nothing of extracting wealth for their own benefit. The whole country is sick
Wait for it to happen before writing the obit. And remember the Lib-Dems got wiped out in 🇬🇧 right after supporting a minority and getting some of their 💩 advanced.
Yes a rethink will be needed. But long term their relevancy won't go away.
We're about to elect a wartime leader and it appears there's only one available that fully understands the assignment, so here we are. We'll have to go back and fix all the fuckups later, provided of course we still have a country to call our own when that later arrives.
Carney is ignoring the most destructive metaphor in human history: the political 'spectrum'. It is not an immutable law of the universe that voters tack one way and then another. Throw off the shackles and consider policy on its merits, don't get cornered like traditional party politics wants..
I like this in concept. Note that also applies to "populism" as Ford employs, as he has said he's neither left nor right but, shudder "for the people". It could also be labeled "pragmatism" as the Liberals, when at their good-ish-best, have governed in the past.
The national Left in Canada died with Layton, unfortunately. I like Quebec’s nationalism for the most part but I think their regionalism keeps a strong national Left wing party from gaining their support, which would be necessary to take off.
The NDP is a provincial party IMO & the best suited to be in power there. The issues they platform improve our day to day lives and the party reflects each province differently.
“The left” is not really represented on a federal issues. The fed NDP simply champion programs that should be provincial.
I think Canada needs proportional representation, so Canadians can vote FOR their preferred choice rather than AGAINST the party they fear. Failing that, the Liberals, NDP, and Greens need to coalesce into a single party representing interests from centre left to centre right.
I agree. However, as things stand right now, we have a de facto duopoly at the federal level: only Liberals or Conservatives ever win. The NDP’s chance of forming government is zero, and Liberal/NDP vote splitting makes it possible for the CPC to win. We need proportional representation.
I agree. Historically, Liberal minority governments that need to work with the NDP have been the best. The trouble is that you can’t vote for a minority government because you don’t know whether vote splitting will hand power to the Conservatives. Right now that’s too big a gamble.
Every election in my 50 years has supposedly been an existential crisis requiring me to abandon my principles to prop up the feckless Liberals. They tricked me real good in 2015 and I'll never vote for them ever again.
The highly-vocal, far-Left Identity Politics complainers seem important when all you see is their Social Media presence; but in fact, they represent a TINY FRACTION of real voters, when election time comes around. But the Left can win on many other issues, from income equality to consumer rights.
The "mainstream" Left's foolish pandering to boutique Identity Politics pseudo-causes (almost all driven by tiny numbers of highly vocal complainers on Social Media), has resulted in the alienation of the Left from its traditional base of working-class voters. No WONDER the NDP is polling at 15%.
The Canadian Left (like the U.S. one) has needed a hard re-think, for over a decade. The Canadian Left has stupidly allowed to let itself be identified with marginal Identity Politics pseudo-causes like "trans rights" and "Canada is a 'racist' country".
Comments
, but yeah, never has happened, never will happen.
'The Liberals will shift left after an election' is Charlie Brown thinking.
If we had any foresight, we would have been voting more NDP many years ago.
And, yes, Canada needs a strong force on the left otherwise we will have devolved into a 2-party state like the US.
But I'll happily take 'Red Tory' Mark Carney over Poilievre every damn day.
Bet many regret their Votes!!
He isn't the first pick but the best pick given the *times*.
I've never voted LIb, being a NDP supporter and now the Greens (oy the Greens).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Moody%E2%80%94Coquitlam_(federal_electoral_district)
We need an entire rewrite...
What would be our version of courting the Liz Cheney I wonder?
Honestly, I’m so tired of a decade (at least) of the NDP aiming for the pro-corporate centre. (And look at Starmer’s Labour to see far the Overton window can go 🤦🏻♂️)
And there’s a real yearning for a socialist party (I’m not saying a majority, but a base you. Could build on).
Apart from the Communist party, the left isn't represented in Canada's electoral politics so this one may not land
I honestly think it started with Layton.
Matthew Green and Heather McPherson come to mind. I do hope Joel Harden wins my riding too.
time trudging door to door and putting signs up. With one practical skill, one social skill, and possibly a truck you can take over the world.
gives Carney the megaphone for his ideas for Canada and we are very much liking it.
Perhaps you may have a different take on Carney's motivations.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uvw-aC0KLD4
Carney wouldn’t be here at all had Cheeto not pursued this mashup of McKinley & Polk
But Carney is a neoliberal, and I'm not sure that's what we need.
My point-let’s not give them ammo with any labels except PM. 👍
But we need to understand what we are sacrificing here and use that after the votes are counted to revive/create a legit movement.
Carney's another feckless liberal. If he gets in, he just sets up our next fascist.
Yes a rethink will be needed. But long term their relevancy won't go away.
“The left” is not really represented on a federal issues. The fed NDP simply champion programs that should be provincial.
Primarily provincial issues.
NO to Pierre ❗️
We see the threat, that is PP.
Carney represents an opportunity to stop that.
Best we can do for now. Libs and cons love our two party fptp system
Duopoly is destroying the US and would hate to see that happen here
This idiocy is a recipe for losing elections.