Hi EnergySky, I have a heat pump question!
Our old gas furnace died, and we got quoted $8.7k to replace the furnace vs $22.8k to get a heat pump. We currently have negligible cooling (one small window unit run 2 weeks a year). We live in Oakland and use PG&E.
Our old gas furnace died, and we got quoted $8.7k to replace the furnace vs $22.8k to get a heat pump. We currently have negligible cooling (one small window unit run 2 weeks a year). We live in Oakland and use PG&E.
Comments
Sizing for the 95% load and then supplementing with electric resistive might be cheaper overall.
Double check operating costs with this spreadsheet tool (and add in cost of carbon).
https://www.efficiencyvermont.com/trade-partners/heat-pump-balance-point-tool
It's not terrible to go with a hybrid system which still relies on a furnace either.
Bonne chance as we say here !
I'd look at adding insulation and buy 1 or 2 oil filled electric radiators for the once and a while.
Lower electricity prices needed to decarbonize!
1) the quotes you're getting from contractors seem about right for this area
2) that seems like a huge amount of gas, is that number correct?
My SWAG is that with a proper consumption figure the installation cost will be more significant than the operating cost difference. But that your overall conclusion won't change.
Is your home insulated? That's probably more bang for the buck, emissions and money wise.
https://www.daikinmea.com/en_us/product-group/air-to-water-heat-pump-low-temperature/daikin_altherma_3_r.html
@earthsciinfo.bsky.social
@lissaharris.bsky.social
local electric price can mean gas is cheaper to operate too. ouch. it’s called “spark gap”
thanks I hate it
That seems like a lot of heating for Oakland but I assume you've already looked into adding insulation and such.
The other eyebrow raiser is the assumption that a new gas furnace would be only 80% efficient.
Good luck!
Wouldn't it be easier with kWh for both systems?
But yes, metric using joules would ideally be better.
PG&E used to have something called "Solar Choice" to get 100% solar. But I think it was discontinued.
We switched to a heat pump last year from gas in San Mateo (~1700 sqft). We pay less than $400 a month in electricity during winter, and some of that is car charging too.
Electricity generation charges are slightly cheaper in San Mateo via Peninsula clean energy than with plain PG&E, but should be a small difference?
Last but not least, make sure the heat pump you get quoted is not oversized.
Does that include rebates? Who knows if tax incentives will still be there.
The reason is all the questions you don't need to answer on a like-for-like comparison.
Heat pumps can be superior for comfort, and conscience, if properly planned and installed.
Big if
my place has electric baseboard heating (which was the cheapest and simplest thing to install back in the 70s,
and probably also today, and the builder didn't care about operating costs.)
I do think those quotes will come down (relatively) as experience with heat pumps in the industry increases. But we're not there yet.
Are you sure you use 1500 therms per year (and are paying 4000$ per year for natural gas)? Our 4BR is quite drafty, DC has if I looked it up correctly (and am not fooled by missing F-C conversions) 3500 HDD compared to Oakland's 2600, and we use 400-700 therms...
Minor inconvenience to boil water on a stove before taking a bath.
You need non-ending mass #protest on the streets: work, sleep, and protest or be f**ked
Hart months ahead but all else will end up in an fascist #authoritarian #state with you having lost all #rights!
These #fascists are not playing #games!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQFAwbNReDA
What's your heating load? How big a heat pump did they quote?
Per TECH the average install cost in Alameda is $24k...
Yes, that is a good point. It is common in retrofits that the ductwork that was designed for heat only via a furnace is not big enough for cooling and/or the lower delivery temps of heat pumps making mini splits best option.
https://www.heatpumped.org/p/pricing-transparency-peeking-behind-curtain-heat-pump-quotes
And a related post: https://www.heatpumped.org/p/byoe-bring-equipment
We went heat pump 3+ years ago. Lower cost to heat and cool our Berkeley house.
Highly recommend A1 Guaranteed for heat pump install.
i am in northern Virginia and just replaced a gas furnace and AC, had a circuit added to the panel and it was just under $14k. gas system was quoted around $11k
https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/how-much-does-a-heat-pump-cost/
In 2005, I paid 10 K for installation (5K for the heat pump and 5 K for the installation) in CA. Costs have gone down since plus there are now state and fed credits.
https://cabec.org/members/georgenesbitt/
I'm in northern FL & replaced the entire heat pump HVAC system (3 ton unit) last year for $8.7.
Tariffs will hit HVAC systems because of aluminum/steel.
I'm on the coast and have to replace mine every 10 years due to corossion.
I'm guessing $15k is reasonable for new installation on a 3-ton unit.
I'd shop around if you decide to go with heat pump.
Our hot water heater burst and we went from gas to hybrid heat pump electric (Alberta Canada). Not only was it much more than the gas, we were charged 2K for an electrical management box. Almost $8K total.
https://localenergycodes.com/download/1877/file_path/fieldList/SF%20Retrofits-Explorer%20Webinar-2024-09-11.pdf
You can often combine incentives, federal, state and local.
Choose the E-ELEC tariff for lower winter off peak rates.
Consider a DIY Mister Cool mini split (or 2) with multiple diffusers for zone control.
Shouldn't something like that work with solar in Cal?
When calculating CO2 emissions, you should consider the improvement of your local electricity emission factor over the next 15+ years.
1) Operating cost economics are tricky, take a look at the tool linked in here: https://www.heatpumped.org/p/i-got-a-heat-pump-and-my-energy-bill-went-up
2) That $22.8k quote is in the range, but on the high side. Shoot me a DM if you'd like to dig in - I think you can do better. $8.7k seems fair for furnace.
This is my heat pump install company: https://www.vayu.pro
My local utility, Xcel, offers discounted electricity rates for customers with electric home heating. This helps the math a little.
https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/collections/wyt
(The local subreddits are full of people advocating for gas HVAC and stoves and ICE vehicles on cost and reliability concerns. Hate it.)
Its like they are actively trying to make electrification non-viable...
heat pumps sort of work but they pull too much power to be cost effective
but rooftop solar! sadly it's the worst lifetime cost per kwh out of all generation options
Will deal, but it's dumb that we can't even sort this out in CA.
https://pluginamerica.org/policy/right-to-charge-policies/
...and/or curbside charging in you community help in your specific situation?
https://www.itselectric.us/
Unfortunately it's like... 8 or so assigned spots, for 250 apartments, so the wait for one to be available is incredibly long.
You may want to consider a mini-split since your HVAC needs are so minimal.
Did the gas furnace heat exchanger crack? If not, repair and more research might be worth it.
FYI, the monetary & environmental savings of a heat pump comes after installation
I think the answer is to make electricity cheaper here (plus rate reforms and subsidies!).
My ordinary middle class has 4 of them and we had cheap ass builders.
Maybe see if these guys want a holiday in the US? It would be cheaper for you.