This Haaretz piece of IDF soldiers’ confessions of human rights violations absolutely wrecked me www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024... - ThreadSky

jakemgrumbach.bsky.social • 123 days ago

This Haaretz piece of IDF soldiers’ confessions of human rights violations absolutely wrecked me

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-12-23/ty-article-opinion/.premium/when-you-enter-gaza-you-are-god-inside-the-minds-of-idf-soldiers-who-commit-war-crimes/00000193-f2a4-dc18-a3db-fee62b540000

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Comments

drop-bear.bsky.social•123 days ago

A more accessible link:
https://archive.is/Q48xg

chokoreetob.bsky.social•123 days ago

Well at least some of them get it (3rd frame).

truman3.bsky.social•123 days ago

Holy shit they actually said it. “…like we (Israeli army) were the nazis and they (Arabs) were the Jews.” Took over a year but yep, that’s it.

krikalitika.bsky.social•123 days ago

https://bsky.app/profile/krikalitika.bsky.social/post/3le3balleok2f

sophontrack.bsky.social•123 days ago

Without paywall https://archive.ph/Q48xg

countessemilia.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

1silvergirl.bsky.social•123 days ago

Heartbreaking.

beihai.bsky.social•123 days ago

that action of that commander would have been the last one he ever did if I were one of the soldiers with him. absolute evil.

jb4israel.bsky.social•123 days ago

Crock of shit opinion piece, aka not a journalist and not based in fact. If someone had confided in him and he didn’t report it, he would be in jail so fast he wouldn’t be making any calls.

missal.us•123 days ago

These are older stories

jb4israel.bsky.social•123 days ago

Israel has a very long criminal statute of limitations, 20y in most cases. IDF misconduct has not limitation. So again, if this opinion piece were not fiction, the author would be criminally liable for not reporting.

wingofbenu.bsky.social•123 days ago

dont engage with the "proud zionist" just block him, he;s not interested in a good faith conversation just in defending baby murder.

missal.us•123 days ago

I know all the hasbara, so I don't mind making them look like fools. It's good practice to put others in their place: the dustbin of history

sewercroc.bsky.social•123 days ago

doing the "that never happened, and if it did they deserved it" pantomime certainly doesn't make you look like you belong outside of said jail cell.

jb4israel.bsky.social•123 days ago

I never said what you asserted in quotes. He would be in jail, that’s a fact. We Israelis take this quite seriously.

kmwsd.bsky.social•123 days ago

Please. I could watch Israeli soldiers post their own war crimes on social media for laughs every single day the last year and no one in Israel cares.

jb4israel.bsky.social•123 days ago

Because parading in someone’s underwear or laughing after blowing up a few miles of terror tunnels are crimes.. silliness.

serevi.bsky.social•123 days ago

Israel doesn't have the moral high ground.

pidermon.bsky.social•123 days ago

A confession like that should have made front page news worldwide but the racist and complicit presstitutes will just pass it over. What a vile and evil times we live in

brigpourquoi.bsky.social•120 days ago

📌

dougwar40k.bsky.social•123 days ago

It's so easy to become a monster.

zugernat.bsky.social•123 days ago

Is it, though?

dougwar40k.bsky.social•123 days ago

These guys all did. Apparently all that's required is to be drafted into the Israeli Defense Force during the administration of Benyamin Netanyahu.

futureed.bsky.social•123 days ago

All israeli administrations

tonytif.bsky.social•123 days ago

As will some of the relatives of the victims.

beaq.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

bretthauer.eu•123 days ago

📌 Gaza

olejastrau.bsky.social•123 days ago

These quotes are from the first intifada 30+ years ago. That’s clearly called out in the piece. Presenting them here without that context feels purposefully dishonest. There’s plenty of other info of current IL war crimes in Gaza, including in that same article.

stylistic.bsky.social•123 days ago

So in fact this shows continuity of practice over a long period, from a time when Israeli society was ostensibly far less radicalised. Furthermore this made it through the current censorship regime. Given all that, do you think things have become significantly better or worse since?

olejastrau.bsky.social•123 days ago

I think if you read the article, which talks about the slow degradation of norms amongst IL military units, the answer is self evident it has gotten worse. But that wasn’t what OP was doing in the original post, which is unnecessarily dishonest.

rk70534.bsky.social•123 days ago

It's not dishonest, it shows the continuity of Israeli practicies.

One could go back to 1948 and find the same.

olejastrau.bsky.social•123 days ago

The OP selected quotes out of context from a paywalled op-ed presenting them as damning evidence of IL war crimes during this conflict. They weren’t. In fact, they’re were several quotes from the same article detailing atrocities from the current conflict. They weren’t as provocative though.

rk70534.bsky.social•123 days ago

Israel's atrocities are well known, so you can spare that, and your second sentence makes no sense in the light of your first one.

olejastrau.bsky.social•123 days ago

Think you meant third sentence, not second. Regardless I think honesty is important. You don’t need to misrepresent the truth to show that Israel is engaged in a systemic campaign of ethnic cleansing. Just read the essay.

rk70534.bsky.social•122 days ago

Israel is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing,and you only have to read earlier article this month about how Israel kills Palestinians on the Netzarim wound Israeli occupation has torn across Gaza. 95 % of people killed are trying to cross it civilians.

futureed.bsky.social•123 days ago

Is that the defense? that these are 30 year old claims?

olejastrau.bsky.social•123 days ago

Not at all. The quotes are horrific. So are some of the later quotes in the same piece regarding the current conflict. There’s no need to present it otherwise.

killerswan.bsky.social•123 days ago

I, too, assumed the quotes referred to events of 2023-2024

I say that not to express doubt about other allegations or confessions, but to note that it was indeed confusing without that context

rk70534.bsky.social•123 days ago

It's not confusing if you were around during the First Intifada and followed news that offered more than Israeli regime propaganda.

sarabjustone.bsky.social•123 days ago

Tbh, that makes it worse.

Nobody, in all this time, has thought “maybe this shouldn’t be happening?”?!?!

joshoconnorchen.bsky.social•123 days ago

Certainly in a just world, it would shut up anyone outraged about October 7.

missal.us•123 days ago

Just goes to show that nothing has really changed

aisakayku.bsky.social•117 days ago

Free the hostages

chainmailedheart.bsky.social•123 days ago

In one way, misleading. In another, it shows Israel has always been like this.

grummels.bsky.social•123 days ago

No words for this

awelder.bsky.social•123 days ago

I'm becoming more and more convinced that this war is Israel's Vietnam

kd-smith.bsky.social•123 days ago

Except now, all the world can, in real time, hear and see first hand accounts of atrocities from both perpetrators and the victims, and know 100% their Governments are lying to them, and for many, actively participating in genocide.

The worst stories of Vietnam came out after the US left.

phillipnhenry.bsky.social•123 days ago

Pretty much any https://aipac1.bsky.social fearing politician puts Israel first despite the atrocities committed by netanyahu and the IDF
https://bsky.app/profile/farbodnagra.bsky.social/post/3ldvy3hc3js2i

phillipnhenry.bsky.social•123 days ago

US was mostly wrong on Vietnam despite the sacrifices made by brave men and women and US is wrong on this Israeli atrocities campaign against mostly women and children.

yxlkrt.bsky.social•123 days ago

timmokx.bsky.social•123 days ago

Is this a real photo? Which city was this taken in ?

donquixote2583.bsky.social•123 days ago

Seems legit

maxjordan.bsky.social•123 days ago

When I shared with a friend who’s been very pro war, his only response was: “Very healthy society with open internal dissent, opposing views.”

liane.bsky.social•123 days ago

Why do you have pro-war friends?

maxjordan.bsky.social•123 days ago

Sometimes you make friends with ppl thru various life circumstances like a grueling medical residency program, grow to love them and learn about their politics along the way. Life is messy.

liane.bsky.social•123 days ago

Imagine if they wanted to kill black people

maxjordan.bsky.social•123 days ago

I’m not going to imagine anything. I spend a lot of my time in this friendship arguing my position and hoping to eventually win him over. Cutting him off isn’t gonna help my side of this larger debate but sure, it might make me feel less icky about having pro-war friends. Like I said life is messy.

liane.bsky.social•123 days ago

Doctors must be pretty good at compartmentalizing

maxjordan.bsky.social•123 days ago

Am I gonna go around actively trying to make friends with war mongers? No. But sometimes you have friends who turn out to have very different politics and it takes like, a world event to unveil that

everwich.bsky.social•123 days ago

Black people face hostility from all sides in this country, so a non-black person using a black person’s identity to try to hector them into being the “correct” kind of black person is, to put it lightly, contemptible

penbird42.bsky.social•123 days ago

while they would obviously do it for free, Israeli troops receive a #PayForSlay bonus for each kill. Extra for children or journalists.

Formerly they had to perform #ShootingAndCrying to get PTSD benefits. Today I suspect they just get a direct deposit to their debit card accounts

w-dukeoflizards.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

sorencookie.bsky.social•123 days ago

How is IDF cruelty different from Putin? Pretty sad. Unfortunately, Israel will always remain in conflict with such an attitude. Hamas actions were cruel and inhuman, but they were illegal militias while IDF is a legit army of a country. One can't justify such acts by comparing themselves to hamas.

alexisrohou.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

morey000.bsky.social•123 days ago

This is horrible

bartholomewb.bsky.social•123 days ago

None dare call it genocide.

titudeadjust.bsky.social•123 days ago

I would offer a caution...
This is an Opinion piece. And it's Haaretz, which is, to say the least, Left-leaning. (And the Israeli Left is just to the Left of the European Left.) So, the likelihood that this is a bit tilted is 100%.

That said, war crimes are unacceptable and should be investigated.

ocasapiens.bsky.social•123 days ago

Since the whistleblowers' interviews 🔽, editorials with different PoV are published ∼every day.

As a rule IDF finds no war crime. So human rights NGO https://gisha.org (@gisha_access on X) petitioned the Higher Court. The AG started investigating in May & the goverment is still trying to dismiss her.

ryanritchie.bsky.social•123 days ago

Dan, I have a few questions for you to consider:

1. You caution about bias because this is Haaretz and 'Left-leaning,' implying that centrist or legacy media is somehow inherently more balanced. Isn't this a subjective assumption?

ryanritchie.bsky.social•123 days ago

All media has a perspective shaped by the interests and values of its owners, editors, and audience. How do you determine what qualifies as balanced?

2. Even if Haaretz leans left, does that invalidate the testimony of soldiers directly involved?

ryanritchie.bsky.social•123 days ago

By focusing on the outlet rather than the content, are we not shifting the conversation away from the substance of their accounts and the atrocities described?

3. You acknowledge war crimes are unacceptable, but what concrete steps would you support to investigate and address them?

ryanritchie.bsky.social•123 days ago

Is it not critical to start by listening to those who bear witness to these actions, regardless of the outlet reporting their words?

candyazz.bsky.social•123 days ago

We don't consider what Hamas does as humans rights violations because we recognize they are terrorists...but they're doing it just as well.

franksting.bsky.social•123 days ago

Oh look another one

sewercroc.bsky.social•123 days ago

Eventually once the IDF runs out of women and children to pretend are Hamas, one can't do the "hurr durr they're committing atrocities too, so that makes it ok for us to execute ten year olds on the street" excuse no more.

caradelaney.bsky.social•123 days ago

Yeah, sorry, you can bang on about your army's "code of conduct" all you want, but if it says "don't harm civilians" and your superiors' response is to simply declare that there are no civilians on the other side, your code of conduct is worthless.

"Just following orders", is what this is.

pfluegerlaw.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

voyagertopluto.bsky.social•123 days ago

This is heartbreaking.

farhanasultana.com•123 days ago

These report of self-confessions have been out for over a year! They boast on their own TikTok and other social media.
Nothing new. Everyone should be outraged by the war criminals and genocide.

kd-smith.bsky.social•123 days ago

This. I'm baffled to hear anyone has just discovered these atrocities have been happening. First hand accounts, images and videos have been all over social media for well over year. It's almost impossible to avoid noticing.

amstradsen.bsky.social•123 days ago

Israel is the next 1930s Germany. A terrible shame. A generation with no morals.

bakademic.bsky.social•123 days ago

I expected as much with the fact they have been live streaming there warcrimes. I only hope the academy will support us to do an autopsy of this situation. We have well documented facist lead genocide this time they can't destroy the evidence.

bakademic.bsky.social•123 days ago

Unironically learning modern hebrew and Arabic so even with out their help, we need to understand how this happened. Never Again for anyone.

spenceman58.bsky.social•123 days ago

Shout out to Haaretz. Ever since tinpot Bibi tried to ban them, they're turning the heat up to 11 on his psychotic rule.

byeroo.bsky.social•123 days ago

A society fed on hate from day one

chchch-cherrybomb.bsky.social•123 days ago

Be leery of Haaretz. They have a history of reporting without verification.

franksting.bsky.social•123 days ago

I see the IOF defenders have logged on

chchch-cherrybomb.bsky.social•123 days ago

Yea… you just lost any argument. “IOF” fuck off Habibi

micky24.bsky.social•123 days ago

These people need to be stopped militarily. Not supported. They are animals. Then they all need to be convicted of war crimes and left to rot in a jail.

seandalai.bsky.social•123 days ago

My grandparents worked for the USAID in Lebanon after the Naqbah.. their stories were awful. If asked when I was radicalized, I answer that I’ve been radical since I was six.

theeazita.bsky.social•123 days ago

It’s hard to know what to do with this knowledge. Such depravity and they revel in it.

exxzackly.bsky.social•123 days ago

Good god......I think i'm gonna be sick....

exxzackly.bsky.social•123 days ago

How can such cruelty and evil exist in the world? How?

maxp94.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

afro-apero.bsky.social•123 days ago

📌

kysakunatsume.bsky.social•123 days ago

At what point will Israeli Jewish accept that Bibi’s regime is transforming them in Nazi Germany?

penbird42.bsky.social•123 days ago

94% of Israeli Jews support the current kill rate in Gaza.

They or their parents moved to Israel specifically to kill to steal land. The problem is Zionism, and Netanyahu is just a symptom

mozzarellasticks.bsky.social•123 days ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

Zionists are way ahead of you. They've been at this from the very start.

kkarrla.bsky.social•123 days ago

Like we were the Nazis and they were the jews

edrybicki.bsky.social•123 days ago

I cannot read any more about these atrocities and the accompanying dehumanisation of both Palestinians and Israelis. It is just sickening in the extreme, and takes my mind to bad places.

rodmoss.bsky.social•123 days ago

I believe there are probably decent soldiers in the IDF but they are rare. It is a terrorist outfit through and through.

jaybiscuits.bsky.social•123 days ago

@kenwhite.bsky.social did you read the article?

https://archive.ph/kJlXD

The specific incidents are from 1987-93 and the article describes how many of the soldiers were convicted and how the units were reformed.

It then goes on to discuss what the author fears is happening today.

nsxguy73.bsky.social•123 days ago

I support human’s right to live peacefully whether Jewish, Palestinian, or other. But we have to call it out when we see it. Netanyahu’s war against the Palestinians is genocide. The IDF under his reign aims to wipe innocent women, men and children off the face of the earth. We need to stop it.

normalsucked.bsky.social•123 days ago

Haaretz writer Gideon Levy was on Ralph Nadar's Radio Show this weekend. I'd been looking for better inside isreal information so started following. Here's the link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ralph-nader-radio-hour/id874581610?i=1000681245428