While I don't want to absolve Democrats for running a poor campaign, they were probably destined to lose because I don't even know what you're supposed to do with this. There's an epidemic of magical thinking that's leading to right-wing conclusions.
Of course, this is hard for Democrats because there are a lot of people in the center and on the left that demand absolute purity and thus have signaled they have no intention of voting. It's only slightly less of a waste of time to reach out to purity voters.
I won’t even say dems ran a poor campaign. The media environment is so skewed to the right and so overrun with misinformation and propaganda that aids the right, that no amount of messaging or campaigning could break through. Case in point, these people being so stupid they heard shit no one said.
maybe, I don't know, the Democrats could've ran a campaign with amnesty for immigrants and more open borders as promises? meanwhile, all Harris did was vow to strengthen borders and brag about being the border czar
Um…since 30 years ago we’ve had 5 Dem pres administrations and repubs had 4! (Without misogyny we would have had 7 to repubs 2!)
ONCE AGAIN, IT’S THE MISOGYNY!!! JFC!
Ok, so your way of convincing a stranger on the internet is to throw some random facts of a remotely related nature, and hope that it “proves” something?
Still is, it threatens the parts of the brain dealing with risk assessment and logical thinking. And ppl keep choosing to go around unmasked like they want brain damage.
Sorry, but it's kind of jarring to see you Democrats accusing others of not engaging with reality while you do the same. No, it's not that these people are crazy. They have NO CHOICE.
They want an anti-establishment option, but your RIGHT-WING party refuses to let any real Leftist option to exist.
1) am not a Democrat anymore, bc that party is feckless, spineless, beholden to corporate donor ship and complicit in genocide- which is made clearer each and every day.
I think that's definitely part of it, but it's also just an indicator of how socially broken the U.S. is currently: for a lot of people things aren't good, but they're about to find out how bad they can truly get.
I love when they suggest things for Dems to do that Dems have already tried doing but can't because the GOP have no interest in fixing it. Simply no acknowledgement of who controls the propaganda apparatus in this country.
So Trump can say "kick'em out!" and "Close the border" but a Democrat candidate has to lay out a 10-point comprehensive immigration plan but in simple language. Cool. Cool. That means they already want to vote for Trump. And Democrats have to win them over. Why is that?
The fundamental issue is that many of these folks are low information voters. Many of them simply voted for Trump because Business Man=Good! There is no nuanced policy that is going to influence them whatsoever. The best message moving forward is Trump Took Egg and that's it, ngl.
As an immigration lawyer, I told a bartender who was asking me about the 1500 dollars that migrants were getting: “bro, if they were, I wouldn’t be ordering fucking Mich Ultra from you right now, I’d be drinking Patron.”
sadly, people are much likely to believe the idiot claim regurgitated to them by their dumb ass rogan-watching best friend than any actual news source, and they'll believe it without an ounce of scrutiny until their belief is questioned by a smarter friend (which many people don't have)
The GOP controls the propaganda apparatus because they've spent decades building it, systematically and carefully. What has the Dems side done? Relied on NPR and PBS? Don't get me wrong, I like NPR - but it is not the equivalent of a Fox News for the Dems side.
No, no. Dems just need very specific and nuanced messaging. That’s what we need to counter mass deportations now which actually means pathways to citizenship for immigrants.
Damn it Dems. Why can’t you use a catch phrase that secretly signals the exact opposite thing?
I think the larger point is that Democrats can’t use immigration reform as the carrot on a fishing pole for Latinos. When they rather believe a grifter than democrats, seems like problem.
This is a long read but worth the time. It was the economy for Latinos. Or the perception. Or the perception of the economy. It also mentions the R ground game outperformed Dems. Rs understand that message repetition is key to getting ambivalent voters to shift. Good lessons here.
It’s not the economy. It’s the hate. These Dominicans got a chance to hate and not vote for a black woman. That is deeply cultural. As far as Reading’s economy, it’s tied to a deeply in debt health system with big threats to its revenue due to Trump. It may go bankrupt.
If trump et al cut Medicare, especially with respect to long term care for the aged, there won't be another repub president for 30 years. Fuck the cost of eggs, have you priced a bed in a skilled nursing facility lately?
Yes, I have. It is abhorrently high. Plus a lot of the aides working there are immigrants. I think, as you said, pointing out the link between Medicare and massive medical debt would be a powerful message. Eggs sound like a quaint little quip now. Financial ruin by med debt is more impactful.
Many of the roommates require specialized medical care which can't be done at home so the outcome will be serious medical debt and/or substandard facilities where elderly abuse is common.
It’s important to remember that there weren’t that many such voters. This mind virus was significant enough in numbers to show up in polling but in no way were the majority of Dominicans this stupid
The political problems we face in this country are deep and pathological. Blame the Dems all you want, but the responsibility for our predicament lies with voters who live in a fantasy world and have entirely rejected the idea of the common good in society.
And as a perfect example of the TRUE nature of Trump, he couldn't be bothered to sift through and separate j6ers who trid to kill police from those who didn't -opting instead to just pardon the lot
...so any idea that he'd sift through millions of undocumented residents looking for "desirables"....
I'm more inclined to think while it was a bit of this self-delusion, but mainly because the only other option was a black woman. Self-delusional to justify misogyny and rascim.
I got a glimpse into the Spanish-language anti-Ukraine propaganda sphere last year, and holy shit. Things like Kamala the communist wants to take your stuff and give it to white Ukrainians. The op is very well organized and tailored to different populations. I'm sure they cover a lot of topics.
Not too surprising. How many people today have told Jews "stop worrying about antisemitism, it's in the past?" Jews are often gaslit into believing the lie that we're not in danger.
Which when your competing campaign is "more of the same", it makes people much more inclined to take that risk. We certainly saw it in 2016. Biden won in 2020 because there was actual change to be offered. Harris was selling herself as "more Biden, but younger", and there's a reason it didn't click.
I don't think Biden is ranking in the top ten. He got some good things done, but no huge victories and a lot more blunders than you want from an incumbent. By the time they realized they couldn't run him it was too little too late, but Harris also did nothing to save it.
Agree with the first part, but the second is apparently subjective. Trump turned districts that voted for Hilary, this wasn't just people who stuck with him from 2016. I think Democrats have been blinded in some ways to just how unappealing Biden and Harris were as candidates, especially in policy.
I remember the fear, the desperation, the paranoia and conspiracy about voter suppression and not being able to cast ballots, being led through a tragedy by a man in denial, all on top of a deep depression and isolation. I remember being desperate for any kind of competence.
People did same with Obama to be honest. They attached all their aspirations to him and some, admittedly, came up empty. Obviously the nation was way better off for having him. MAGA prez is like the bizarro inverse of that effect.
People keep underestimating the power of social media manipulation. Everyone gets a reality curated for them based on what they are capable of believing.
Media environment for Latinos and other immigrant groups like Russians even worse than English language media is my sense. More familiar w the Russian, it’s real bad
The reality is ... Hispanics may not see themselves as one group ... BUT RACIST WHITES DO! They see the names and they see dark skins even if they look white in a mirror, and they're now sending them to GITMO to disappear forever!
African Americans understand this. Hispanics need to learn it too.
The real takehome here is that the Harris campaign, like hte Hillary campaign, didn't do a good job: they didn't have people out in the neighborhoods that mattered, but relied on beltway consultants
maybe that is true; I think it is what one takes from the story
It isn't explicit, but this story is very misleading cause it sounds like although more Latinos voted for trump, the actual percent of latinos voting for trump was small
Trump is essentially a Rorschach test for shitty people. He says things, the opposite of those things, and complete nonsense all at once. People turn it into whatever they want.
They will also do anything for the man who makes their racism, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, and hate feel OK.
Hilary lost because of sexism, Harris lost because of white supremacy. Both ran flawless campaigns and didn't take these groups for granted. Weak policy, lack of change focus, and unappealing candidates were complete non-issues: the reason Dems keep falling is because everyone else is hateful.
They did not run flawless campaigns. That’s rare. It’s impossible to touch and connect with all groups. That’s why you use surrogates and both of them needed better surrogates.
And you're the problem with the American Democratic Party. Please, please I beg of you support an appealing candidate and stop blaming circumstance for your losses! I don't want to be subjected to whatever the GOP picks after Trump just because the center decides it's the lesser evil.
The old magic still works. Trump benefits from the traditional appeal of America to immigrants: as a land of opportunity where people can become independent and provide a better future for their children.
It will go bankrupt due to changes in revenue due to cuts in Medicaid and Medicare. It’s all predictable. Additionally, care will be damaged in that health system
The fact that there's a lot of overlap between church goers and Trump cultists isn't a coincidence. They've been conditioned to be proud of believing something everyone else says is fiction.
Classic sleight of hand and misdirection, but make it bigotry
Hatred short circuits critical thought. If point someone to something to hate, they’ll fixate on that and not the actions of the person whose finger is doing the pointing
It's actually a really common theme when people are being several oppressed. They strategize how to move into the "safe" group and then fantasize about how they will benefit when the "targeted" ones are oppressed.
One possible explanation for Latinos, specifically, is that they heard about how terrible Trump was in 2016, but then not much actually happened in his first term (since Trump was restrained by institutional Republicans).
Yes, this is why I think they need to experience what they voted for. As a black woman, everyone I know is not in any mood to do anything or put themselves out there for delusional people who couldn't think to reduce harm to themselves and loved ones.
I think it's not just Latinos. My guess is that many who voted for him assumed his campaign promises were hot air. Nothing happened in 2016, everyone was just overreacting. I mean when's the last time a president actually followed through on a campaign promise, right?
At some point, Americans must confront their magical thinking. It’s not good for any of us. Face reality, y’all. The rapist felon is a white supremacist bigot. He’s only going to make lives worse.
There's really no fucking point in bothering with refined messaging when people are just gonna believe whatever the hell they feel like. Probably because misogynoir.
"Surely he knows that I, personally, am one of the good ones, and he's only talking other people who are The Bad Ones......hey, why is there an unmarked black van outside my house?"
"I hate you."
"I think he means, 'I hate the sorry state that the system that affords you no legitimate path forward.'"
"You are subhuman scum and criminals."
"Yes, we ARE treated like subhuman criminals just for existing! This guy gets us."
"I'm going to fucking kill you."
"Thank you, sir!"
Variation on "every American believes themselves a temporarily embarrassed millionaire" - Trump promises thing that will hurt a community, but magical thinking transforms that into benefitting said community
The strangest thing about the Trump phenomenon is that folks will believe everything trump says they like as absolutely true.
But won't believe a single thing he says about harming them personally and will do ridiculous mental gymnastics to invent a cover for whatever he said.
actual conversation between my wife and her mom a few weeks ago -
wife: "I could never support someone who revels in cruelty and stepping on the weak and needy"
MIL: "well I don't like that either but he said he'd fix things"
wife: "But he lies, you know he does!"
MIL: "well that's true but...."
Has he done a single stupid EO on anything that would actually benefit you? Or are they all targeting minorities and making thousands of people arbitrary unemployed?
Constantly on trans people. Have heard "I don't want my daughter/granddaughter to have to fight a man". We've never even watched boxing, much less taking it up as a sport.
This in particular was about how everyone discriminates against straight white guys though.
I think a big factor is Trump actually stands for so little. He's basically empty and thus people can ascribe whatever beliefs they want to into Trump. Part of this is also because journalists have not effectively and accurately described his positions.
Notice how everything Trump actually says they just hand wave it away as "he's just kidding," whereas what they ascribe to what they think Trump says/believes comes from a nebulous sewer of doublethink from conservative outlets.
Although this is where again it’s not really true that he means what he says. They originally claimed (2017) they just wanted people to come in according the legal rules. But then he gladly restricted those numbers too.
Even anti-Trump makes the same mistake where they say it was obvious he was
Can't remember who I saw say it first (could have been @nycsouthpaw.bsky.social i think) but it bears repeating that I've just never seen a politician who actually benefits from being a notorious and constant liar. Like unlocking a cheat where you lose so much you come out the other side on top
Part of the problem is flattening Latino into one identity. A lot of Dominicans, for example, are anti Black and have their own history w/ Trump like tyrant. some will note that Trujillo paid off the national debt in the same breath they acknowledge he slaughtered Haitians.
El Jefe allowed Jews escaping Eastern Europe and Hitler in the 1940s into the DR only because he hoped they would intermingle and whiten the population.
Semi-related, Ta-Nehisi Coates noted 7 years ago that whiteness is malleable and relying on “demographic destiny” is going to disappoint. https://youtu.be/X-xssa4BHuI?t=367
This the result of the perpetual falsehood fog. He just lies all the time about anything and everything and everybody knows it. But rather than recognize this makes him untrustworthy and unreliable, it allows the audience to dismiss what they do not like and be flattered by what they do like.
It probably has something to do with Trump connecting to people's identity in a way that George Lakoff talks about in his research and books. The whole "strict father" morality.
It was exactly the same with why a lot of people in the UK voted for Brexit - it was sold to them as a cure for whatever it was they'd been led to believe needed curing.
And of course in actual fact it's just made everything worse & now only the true believers & the very stubborn refuse to admit it.
No one seems to remember his first term, but it’s still bizarre how many Trump supporters explaining themselves that still sound like negotiating. There was an entire other candidate, why would you vote for the guy you hope won’t do what he’s saying he’ll do?
I think an under discussed part of it is not that these people are under informed low info voters but that Trump is on the same side of the culture war as them and they are willing to tolerate policies that are terrible or even hurt them personally so that they can win on cultural issues
People loved Trump saying the war needs to end. But wouldn't accept him also saying "we need to let Israel finish the job". Or him stating multiple times that Biden's actions were preventing that (i.e. we were restricting Netanyahu from escalating)
Susceptibility to charlatan demagoguery + desire to identify with the ingroup by hating immigrants = rationalizing that you will be recognized as “one of the good ones” and rewarded
I think it’s bc he does genuinely identify with them on many things. He resents or is made uncomfortable by/is oppressed by the same things they are, like bureaucracy, cops, women, trans ppl. Therefore, they think, he must also feel like I do abt x, y, or z.
I have an idea. They may have been targeted on social networks, with messages insinuating exactly this. They were easy to find/target based on their location, preferred language, community (group) affiliations, cultural references, etc. It's just a hypothesis - I have no proof myself.
This is what I have heard happened in Fl, but different population there--already pretty conservative in Cuban and Venezuelan communities, so calling Harris a communist probably resonated well.
There has to have been a concerted disinfo campaign in a bunch of communities. I work in an immigrant run business with a lot of immigrant clients and people think they're going to get a tax credit to send their kids to madrassa or that this won't affect them sponsoring family to come here.
No need for a campaign, Hispanic Americans were hoping to “become white” the same way the Irish and Italians did— by throwing others under the bus and out-racisting the racists. They just figured they’d be able to define those “others” as not including themselves personally.
It's the specific shared wrong beliefs. They come from somewhere. I know there was an anti gay/trans book ban list that circulated in Muslim communities, the way similar lists went around white Christian communities. Someone starts those.
I mean, it’s a good article, but how are these people SO uninformed? They think he won’t cause chaos and wreak havoc! Like, trump was a disaster last time around. How can they not remember?
Cannot underestimate the stupidity of some voters, combined with their attraction to bigotry directed at other groups of people (LGBT, Black people, etc.). Latino immigrants who believed that Trump wanted to help them were willingly conned.
Can't speak for that particular region but I will say that Spanish talk radio here in South Florida makes FOX News look like MSNBC.
It's bad. And the democrats have done nothing to counter it.
While the magical thinking on display here is depressing, there are reasons to be hopeful. This cross section of voters was genuinely concerned about affordability & thought 🍊💩’s criticism of inflation meant he would fix it. Unfair double standard but author isn’t wrong about solutions. 1/2
Growing up in an immigrant community, I saw a lot of this magical thinking too. I recall the Vietnamese community frequently overlooking GOP’s racism in favor of their pro-capitalism (anti-communist) stance.
The short of it, the right wing US demonizes the immigrants and the left wing US often idealizes the immigrants.
The US correctly notices that the US has a racism problem, but has no clue about the prevalence and acceptance of racism in the rest of the world.
The Republicans out-worked the Democrats for four years and are STILL out-working them as if the next election were next week. This is a perfect example.
Does the translation of Trump speak into Latino news networks play a part in all of this? It’s easy to change the implications of his words with a slight variation in translation and with the maga takeover of Spanish language networks they’re incentivized to do that
Simple:
Latinos who are established in the US - even recently - consider themselves full-on US residents, and immigrants as “other” - a threat to their American Dream - lesser than them.
I think it’s an insecurity they have, feeling that they are “less than”
to much of conservative white America.
Frankly it’s been like this forever, it’s a never ending cycle of immigrants assimilating but remaining xenophobic and as self interested in those that can trace their heritage back to the Mayflower.
If you don't want to take your civic responsibility as an American citizen seriously, then when it comes to political issues, I am not going to take you seriously.
Not surprising. So many seemed okay with Haitians being deported and being accused of eating 🐈⬛🐶. So many people are okay with the pain and suffering of others, as long as it doesn’t affect them. Unfortunately, now the same is being done to some of them in 🇵🇷.
Comments
Democrats failed to get center and left-of-center voters to the polls, that's what it comes down to.
You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't mean they'll drink.
ONCE AGAIN, IT’S THE MISOGYNY!!! JFC!
They want an anti-establishment option, but your RIGHT-WING party refuses to let any real Leftist option to exist.
2) there is ALWAYS a choice. Always.
https://old.bitchute.com/video/vGsQutZD16gF/
Damn it Dems. Why can’t you use a catch phrase that secretly signals the exact opposite thing?
IMO this was a billionaires campaign to win.
...so any idea that he'd sift through millions of undocumented residents looking for "desirables"....
Voters: Wow! A birthday gift! Thanks!
Trump promised change and people, especially desperate ones, read into it whatever change they wanted to see in the world.
But people who looked at Trump as a changed candidate and not super destructive and dangerous were choosing not to see what was obvious.
It’s fine to say I want something different but then the blindingly obvious choice was Harris.
That's why Biden won.
Also the GOP absolutely HATES its voters and will fuck them every chance it gets
Leave these Aholes to rot
African Americans understand this. Hispanics need to learn it too.
maybe that is true; I think it is what one takes from the story
in Dec 2016, there was a letter in
I am a long time Dem worker in rural wisconsin and we were begging the hillary campaign for an office and they refused, no wonder she lost
so potentially very misleading
They will also do anything for the man who makes their racism, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, and hate feel OK.
/s
Why do you not want to blame the voters?
Is it some kind of selfish, (white) savior complex?
Log off
Marx was a mistake :P
Hatred short circuits critical thought. If point someone to something to hate, they’ll fixate on that and not the actions of the person whose finger is doing the pointing
This time though…
Well, here we are.
We all know this is what happens.
I obv can't speak for them, but why do some Latinos want to be white so, so badly?
(Or specifically, Latino men :P)
Is this another damn patriarchy thing, because I stg
Jesus, everything bad in life can really just be traced back to one of those (and antisemitism)
Why is it always just those damn three things?
"I think he means, 'I hate the sorry state that the system that affords you no legitimate path forward.'"
"You are subhuman scum and criminals."
"Yes, we ARE treated like subhuman criminals just for existing! This guy gets us."
"I'm going to fucking kill you."
"Thank you, sir!"
So many people this last election were on an entirely different planet.
But won't believe a single thing he says about harming them personally and will do ridiculous mental gymnastics to invent a cover for whatever he said.
I want to believe it would make a difference, but I talk to fam they hate tariffs, they hate musk having their info.
But then they'll think up a culture war issue & if anything they're even more galvanized than b4.
I watched it play out in front of my eyes last week. It was shocking.
wife: "I could never support someone who revels in cruelty and stepping on the weak and needy"
MIL: "well I don't like that either but he said he'd fix things"
wife: "But he lies, you know he does!"
MIL: "well that's true but...."
Has he done a single stupid EO on anything that would actually benefit you? Or are they all targeting minorities and making thousands of people arbitrary unemployed?
This in particular was about how everyone discriminates against straight white guys though.
He's said something about everything but they've never really tried to pin him down on anything.
Even anti-Trump makes the same mistake where they say it was obvious he was
I think it's as Trump gets even more unhinged, the gymnastics get even more elaborate.
But it still boggles my mind.
Goddammit 🫠
He's literally the fucking Antichrist, why the fuck does they want to think he's Jesus?
And of course in actual fact it's just made everything worse & now only the true believers & the very stubborn refuse to admit it.
People loved Trump saying the war needs to end. But wouldn't accept him also saying "we need to let Israel finish the job". Or him stating multiple times that Biden's actions were preventing that (i.e. we were restricting Netanyahu from escalating)
It's bad. And the democrats have done nothing to counter it.
The US correctly notices that the US has a racism problem, but has no clue about the prevalence and acceptance of racism in the rest of the world.
Sky is blue
Water is wet
We Ds need to also remember this when doing outreach - even though it’s bullshit.
I think that may be the biggest one - Crosses all demographics 😒.
It’s easier for the R big tent because that only involves white straight Christians 🙄.
https://bsky.app/profile/gregsargent.bsky.social/post/3li5a2avujs2g
Latinos who are established in the US - even recently - consider themselves full-on US residents, and immigrants as “other” - a threat to their American Dream - lesser than them.
I think it’s an insecurity they have, feeling that they are “less than”
to much of conservative white America.
It really is that simple. Lee Atwater knew humanity in a way we thought was gross.
Simple as that. 🤷🏼♂️