Kinda feels like a whole lotta people found out for the first time today that there's a very large, very vibrant progressive wing of Christianity (and religion in general).
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The 'soul' of the country is written into the DNA of the Constitution. Even the worst among us will claim 'free speech'. There's no way to eradicate that. The only thing we need is one word, freedom, and that is already endowed by the creator. Take this book and put it you know where!
Terribly sad Bishop Budde's message lands as so "courageous". Understandable given how religion is co-opted in 🇺🇸, true. It's the only version of Christianity (Anglican in my case) I've heard in my church 🇨🇦 🤷♀️. It's well past time for the silent majority 🇺🇸 Christians to reclaim their faith 🙏.
Evangelicals are a big group. Yes. I appreciate that feels overwhelming. And people are complex. I trust many Evangelicals don't like how their voice has been co-opted.
Meanwhile, to my original post, there are many other Protestant and Catholic groups. Under the 'Christian' umbrella.
I have so many questions about the extreme evangelicals. I quit going to church because I don't want to associate with them. I no longer trust them to live like Jesus. The judgment is too much!
I've watched Evangelical church membership swell while ours has dwindled, I do not believe their voices have been co-opted I believe they found their voices.
You cannot possibly be suggesting that Catholics would fall under the umbrella of progressive churches can you?
As noted, people are complex. I don't subscribe to forced binary viewpoints. I literally had a guest present in my Women's Reproductive Health class on Monday describe her work with Catholics for Right to Decide as one example.
I trust most Catholics approve of Bishop Budde's message of love 🕊️.
I don't believe in calling people progressive when the groups they join demonize lgbt folks, deny women equal treatment or support ethnic cleansing and genocide (see Rwanda)
Google "Open and Affirming Churches" and you'll see quite a number of Catholic parishes listed there. Stop getting your news about Catholicism from zealous converts and listen to the 70 year old church ladies.
The rest of us already know and just don't care. Religion is 95% mental illness and Christianity is a poorly written set of choose-your-own-adventure fanfics. The foundations of the religion aren't even self consistent. It is hard to take adherents of any kind seriously.
Would be way healthier to just be a good person without pretending to hear voices or needing some external motivator, like only doing so to escape supposed eternal torment.
Since I was a kid, actually....(many decades.) We were called "radicals" by others. We were part of the anti-war movement in the 60s/70s. We're still here.
I don’t give a shit about your religion unless you’re trying trying to force it on me. So no, I don’t notice the religion of people who mind their own business and get on with doing the work.
Do you need credit specifically for being a Christian decent human, or will decent human suffice?
The Episcopal church has been in state legislatures arguing against bans on gender affirming care for trans youth. They have been at every lgbt protest and celebrated every pride month with us. They have set up funds for reparations to black and indigenous Americans. They have not been silent
I used the traditional meaning of Christian as a follower of Christ. I don’t accept the bastardized, hateful, anti-Christian version that conservatives use.
This is a significant point that is often overlooked.
Christians really should accept that Paul never met Jesus except for a very sus personal vision. He claims not to be following the teachings of Jesus as given to the Apostles, but his personal interpretation.
Thus Christianity serves the empire.
We will never know (and I'm comfortable with that) but a less charitable explanation is that, like so many preachers today, he saw an opportunity to lead a cult and he took it.
He's like Joseph Smith but without the magic hat.
I would disagree
It doesn’t seem that large or vibrant & it’s a variant at odds w/the very concept of organised religion
I understand that perhaps some form of Christianity linked to its original progressive views is appealing, but ultimately all dogma leads to conformism & resistance to progress
There is. Ironically “progressive” entails living according to the original teachings of Jesus. Living with love for other humans shouldn’t be progressive but here we are.
I am a follower, but not of any religion. I believe in relationship, and mine is solid. It comes out in how I hope I treat people. With dignity, respect, and love, and a glass of cold water if that's what they need and I have it ❤️🫂💪🤓🦋
Grew up in the Bible Belt. Many of the folks still entrenched there will dismiss anything she said “because women aren’t allowed to preach or to teach men”. Zero room for enlightenment.
I've know that it exists (UU being a great example). What I have, and will continue to, criticized is their ineffective repudiation of the maga/gop christianity. That loud and obnoxious sect needs to be dealt with, and HARSHLY!
I work at the coffee shop on a Seminary campus (priest school) and like all my coworkers are queer, and most of them are training to be priests (some of us are just related to faculty though)
Let me just say as a trans woman and Episcopalian the Episcopal church does very well in managing its followers, I have not had a single negative experience with any of them over my gender or sexuality. Have you had a different experience with them?
The Episcopal church has supported abortion rights since 1967 and have argued in state legislatures against the newly implemented bans. Where do you feel we have "rolled over" in our defense?
congrats on being one of the more reasonable superstitious organizations. I should be more nuanced in my critiques of the various kinds of idiots engaging in magical thinking
I will stick with those idiots. They spent yesterday handing out thousands of pounds of fruit and vegetables to hundreds of hungry families. They send delegates to fight unjust laws in state capitals. They are paying reparations to black and indigenous people. What actions are you taking?
If you really want a list, DM me. It's great you're helping people. Is being religious required to do that? Do you not recognize the harm done in the name of religion, and the manipulative tactics used by missionaries? Maybe Episcopalians are less harmful. Do you believe in hell?
I grew up Catholic. I'm non practicing & have been looking for a church in my new town for 5 years. I don't do Baptist. She has a convert. I'll be finding a DOC church and attending this Sunday.
People seem shocked when anyone of any faith shows leftist or progressive ideals
Probably because they exist, with a lot of religions. The right wing bigots just drown them out (And make the leftists ones feel uncomfortable or constantly belittles them for believing Jesus was woke, which he was
I don’t know how we remain such a well kept secret. Bishop Budde also went ten rounds with Trump after his tear gas/Bible photo op. Nobody remembers that.
Yeah, same church that had a ban on gay/lesbian pastors in one of their largest conferences. West Coast UM churches still tend to be liberal. Which is funny considering how conservative they were in the Northeast back in the 50's.
But it's been too silent for too damn long. And it's still doing the work of the patriarchy. I gave up my calling because the institution still isn't as fearless as its leaders. The Church (big C) is still sitting stunned while pastors and priests are forcefully dragging it along.
I didn't know they existed either. But look for them at community events and library events at pride festivals. I've found them and I'm so glad I did it
Come to my multicultural Episcopal church. We are Black, Brown, white, old, young, gay, straight. We have women and LGBTQ + clergy. We run a food pantry and diaper bank. We foster refuge families. And yes, on Sundays and other times we pray, sing, read Scripture. We try to be what Jesus taught.
Oh I know about it, I just wished they did more to confront fascism. You know what would be awesome? A thousand churches declaring that they are off limits to federal agents seeking to round up immigrants, and that their congregations will bar the doors to protect them.
That’s why we need churches willing to raise the banner and say no. Make them violate consecrated ground. It doesn’t matter what they say. Make them do it.
I'm old enough to remember when every mainline denomination issued a statement opposing the war in Iraq. Media ignored it. There is a huge church sanctuary movement in the US & has been for years. Some shyness about approaching the media allowed them to continue helping people, but its not a secret
They also believe in the separation of church and state, so they don't preach on how or who you should vote for. They preach on voting your conscience and working towards a greater good in our communities.
True. But I think we also need to ask the media to do better. MAGA evangelicals get consistent coverage, when other churches & religious movements do not. Episcopal Diocese of Washington DC, for example, has been a sanctuary diocese since 2018. Not mentioned in any article I read.
Hear hear! I’ve been Episcopal my whole life. Encourage folks to check out what the Episcopal Migration Ministries has done and will continue to do in the face of Trump’s policies, and consider donating.
Thinking about this “hat trick” that non-toxic Christianity achieved in one month:
1. The nativity story, with the Magnificat and humility and powerlessness and all.
2. Jimmy Carter’s life — as a SOUTHERN BAPTIST! — showing the lies of Xn Nationalism.
3. Bishop Budde speaking truth to power.
Episcopalian here. We generally aren't real big on pushing our religion in people's faces. But if people like what they heard from Bishop Budde and want to learn more about this wing of Christianity, I encourage them to visit an Episcopal church in their community.
My Episcopal Church helped provide transportation to the polls for anyone who needed it. It was sponsored by people involved in the church's social justice ministry. I can guarantee you people in my parish voted for the rights of immigrants and lgbtq+. And this is in deep red Indiana
I have known they exist. I just haven’t seen them speak out for their faith in anything like numbers. It might be too late now. I’m grateful for her and anything else, but remain disappointed it’s taken so long
I'll note: The Times here notes the changes to the service before Election Day, but almost makes it sound like Trump was elected and *then* they chose Budde to preach.
That's not the case: They *also* announced she was preaching in October, and were very clear about that.
Where were they during Trump's first administration? I hesitate to criticize anyone who calls out Trump's mistreatment of immigrants, the poor, people in need of healthcare, etc., etc. But this is nothing new. Religious people have long been needed to speak up about Trump's unChristian behavior.
Kinda feels like you and your so-called 'progressive Christians' are desperately hoping to erase the past forty-five years of your fucking collaboration with theofascist Reichwingers (sorry, 'evangelicals'.
You were good Germans all this time. YOU OWN THIS. EAT IT.
Social Justice is the call for the Christian. The progressive wing of Christianity is huge, but we spend our money on society’s vulnerable, not Trump tchotchkes.
Just a tid-bit…
There’s a polar difference between The Holy Spirit &
The Religious Spirit
My neighbour sent me down a rabbit hole when I expressed my concern about the enormous amount of “Christians” who aren’t
“Christian-ly” in the slightest.
Frankly, it all sounded like an excuse , IMO 🤦♀️
Him and what army? The handful of folks who actually read the book and follow it? Right. 🙄
Pardon my cynicism, but I’ve seen more hate, bigotry, racism, and violence from self proclaimed “children of Christ” than any single group in America. So thanks, but this isn’t a heartwarming story
Yes!! Just like the Dems and other doers (like Aust Independents & Govt) they are bad in messaging because they put the effort into the work, not the smoke & mirrors!! #auspol
I disagree. I think it is more like those who hold to their faith. Jesus washed feet of the people FOTUS wants to deport, attack, and has assaulted against, and committed fraud agaisnt, and more.
Yeah. I used to think they were kind of disorganized, but now that I see what a lot of other churches preach, I see that the church I grew up in was actually incredibly cool.
You mean there are actual Christians that believe in the Bible and the teaching in it and then there are “Christians” that own a lot of bibles but only read what they want to read….if they read them at all.
Are you under the impression that Episcopalians, as a group, are particularly conservative? Because…they are not.
More to the point: Different religious groups trend in different directions politically; i.e., conservative evangelicals don't tend to take cues from liberal mainliners, and vice versa.
In many US cities, that's one of the religions that practically broke in two over the issue of support for LGBTQ Americans and their participation in the church. I know churches that opened new congregations over their disagreement w/ discrimination, esp. hiring gay pastors.
I appreciate your reply, as big names are following you, but that's my point
The liberal-leaning Episcopalian faith is rapidly shrinking, while Evangelicals have abandoned the sermon on the mount and found new prophets. What call to action is there to right the wrongs of the modern clergy?
Those nationalist warmly embracing the perceived acceptance of wealth and corruption from on high for political means do not care about what that Bishop had to say today. They do not accept her.
So what is being done by the church leaders in general to correct course? Prayer?
I would very much like to hear them more loudly than the phony christian nationalists. I understand that Christian principles are of peace and humility, but the whole religion is being branded by the nationalists. Find a way to take back the narrative and end this fascist movement.
Romans 10:9-10
"Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."
I’m glad you are a student of Paul. I’m a follower of Jesus. Jesus didn’t ask for that confession. Paul Wrote that in a letter to a specific church. Its not that Paul’s wrong, it’s that he saying that because he believes Jesus is returning within a few years.
The subject of the entire letter is how to evangelize to Jews. Paul says Jesus is “the culmination of the law.”
I was summarizing the culmination of the law as it is near me “ in my mouth and heart.”
Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
John 6:39-40:
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
I’ve been saying this for years. Once you leave the south and Midwest, most Christians have the same views that she does. I’m in my mid 40’s and not once have I gone to mass and heard the hate speech that news likes to put on. Not once have been told to vote a certain way. There are those of us
I’m in AZ near Phoenix and I was told for the first time in a Catholic Church which way we should be voting. Growing up in FL it was not talked about. But a recent return there and they said the same thing. 😔
I moved to Maryland in 2006 from Florida, and my church in Florida was apolitical. It’s that way here in Maryland. We’re not told who we should be voting for or any other bs.
My daughter moved to Maryland and absolutely loves it!! I’m glad you found a church. I’ve been contemplating leaving the Catholic Church and going Episcopalian but saw that Rachel Maddow said the Catholics are stuck with her. I should just try being a voice maybe.
I’ll say what I tell everyone, I’m not going to leave the church because the church is more than just its priests, bishops, etc. I may not agree with what they’re saying, but I’ve read the Bible and actually live by what is inside it. Love thy neighbor, and judge not. We’re all sinners, and it’s
Gods job to judge. So I do what the Bible says. I treat everyone with kindness and I don’t judge them (as much as possible) because that’s not why I was put on earth. I don’t care if a woman has an abortion, because that’s her choice to make not mine. I worry about being the best me and that’s all.
And now would be the time for the progressive wing of Christianity to become more assertive and take back their religion. The moneychangers did not shut themselves down. Neither did the Pharisees.
To the lasting regret of christians, and despite thousands of years of their effort, the Pharisees (who have rebranded as Jews) are still here. #sorrynotsorry
God, save us from the love of “progressive christians”
I think we need a media that doesn't think, "Time to hear from a religious person, let's call the head of the Southern Baptist Church."
Not a single story I read mentioned the fact that the Episcopal diocese of DC has been a sanctuary diocese since 2018. MAGA evangelicals get tons of press.
It’s shocking, really. Went to Catholic schools from K through high school. Some of the most liberal teachers I had were nuns. This was in CA but still they were women who dedicated themselves to religion AND taught science, sex ed, history, arts, etc.
Same in MI. We had this nun who let us relax on giant pillows with New Age music. Bullies in Catholic school were basically from very conservative families who wanted trad norms back. Their parents invited priests golfing, to events, & had special status. Teachers turned a blind eye to be included.
In the 60s and 70s, the hippies used to be the ones into Jesus. The right wing conservative Archie bunker types even had a name for them. “Long haired Jesus freaks.” The right used to ridicule Christians.
The reason is us. We are invisible because a lot of us do this thing where we disappear when shit gets real.
This isnt an attack. It is as much a confession as anything else. There have been times when people like us turned the tide. That this is not (yet) one of those times makes me ashamed.
Like I’ve said elsewhere: You went to an Episcopal church, you got an Episcopal bishop giving an Episcopal sermon. If you don’t like it, go complain to your advance team bc there were no surprises to be had.
Kinda like you're asking the clergy who do believe in separation of church and state to preach on who to vote for... they (we if you include non-clergy) do the quiet work right alongside you without making a fuss about our religious beliefs.
What are you asking then? Are you asking for polling research on how progressive Christians voted, or are you insinuating they didn't vote at all? #notclearonwhatyourpointis
I don't blame Kamala for failing to do the impossible, but Biden and the DNC failed to accept that they needed to start running a succession plan starting Jan 20, 2021.
Instead they hoped to run out the clock and we all suffer.
Descent into an anti science, anti education morass of idiocy? I think that’s the plan. Greed and bigotry respected as personal qualities and years of pain for the working poor.
To be serious 2 seconds : in europe we had a lot of "Christian Left", especially before the 1970s-1980s. Some of the most proeminent figures of the french left were members of the Young Christian Workers (JOC) when they were kids or teenagers.
Bad news, the right created no outlet or process to throw out the bad christians. The usGov made no such process. The police make no such effort to throw out bad cops.. did y'all throw out Trump or did he throw out you? They won the "Christian" title.
Yes, and as our former Presiding Bishop Michael Curry frequently stated “we are on the Jesus walk”- ie we follow his teachings through action & service & “If it’s not about Love, it’s not about God”.
Only . . . it isn't just Episcopalians with sanctuary churches & dioceses & a willingness to support, include, marry & ordain LGBT persons. There are other mainline churches. MAGA evangelicals have taken up most of the space in religious reporting in recent years. Would be nice if that changed.
Are you joking or just ill-informed? Just because you didn't see doesn't mean the work wasn't being done. The MSM spends all of its time talking with and about white evangelical opinions and perspectives.
Yes, the MSM presents the opinion of white evangelicals all the time. But where have the voices been of religious people who strongly disagree with evangelicals who support MAGA. Religious liberals aren't very good at pushing their way in front of cameras.
Far from silent. The Episcopal Church in the U.S. went through a schism because of advocacy/acceptance of the rights of women and gays (among other things). The conservative side is now formally affiliated with Anglican community outside the U.S.
Those conservative Episcopal churches created their own form of the Anglican Church with breakaway conservative Canadian Anglican churches. They are’nt affiliated with the Church of England but w/ many conservative African Anglican churches. I’m an organist at a progressive CAD Anglican Church
But they are too quiet. I get that, because embodiment of empathy and compassion generally means you don’t draw attention to yourself but to those you support/help. But, the stakes are too high to look the other way (unlike today) at the one who use your “faith” for evil intentions
Yup. See those are the real Christians, they got the memo about humility. Unfortunately that means most people outside of their orbit don't realize they're Christians. What a world, right?
"i know i just acknowledged that you've never heard of us, but allow me to shill a book just like the christians you have heard of" is a wild opener, Jack
Open Baptists in Australia started recently as traditional associations are preparing to dis-affiliate churches who disagree with them even tho freedom of conscience is meant to be important for baptists. I hope you have similar groups in 🇺🇸 https://openbaptists.org
Yes!! I've been waiting for this to finally happen. After having to explain what kind of Christian I am every time people find out and seeing their confusion at the lack of representation, this is a relief.
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https://www.alibris.com/
#FreeWendy
#SeanCombsIsAThug
Meanwhile, to my original post, there are many other Protestant and Catholic groups. Under the 'Christian' umbrella.
You cannot possibly be suggesting that Catholics would fall under the umbrella of progressive churches can you?
I trust most Catholics approve of Bishop Budde's message of love 🕊️.
Do you need credit specifically for being a Christian decent human, or will decent human suffice?
One woke dude, tbh.
Radical Christians follow Paul.
That's why I prefer "follower of Jesus" for those who I sense are actually doing that. Budde is one of them. 😎
Christians really should accept that Paul never met Jesus except for a very sus personal vision. He claims not to be following the teachings of Jesus as given to the Apostles, but his personal interpretation.
Thus Christianity serves the empire.
And he requested, as a Roman citizen, to go before the emperor, hoping for a reprieve. Acts 25
As for his visions, I personally believe he suffered from schizophrenia and audio hallucinations. He obeyed voices in his head. Gal 1:15-16; 2:1-2
He's like Joseph Smith but without the magic hat.
But there's no reason why both can't be true. 😉
It doesn’t seem that large or vibrant & it’s a variant at odds w/the very concept of organised religion
I understand that perhaps some form of Christianity linked to its original progressive views is appealing, but ultimately all dogma leads to conformism & resistance to progress
Telling the person in the pew next to you doesn’t count.
Curious if your definition is different than my pastor. I live in glorious Seattle.
Probably because they exist, with a lot of religions. The right wing bigots just drown them out (And make the leftists ones feel uncomfortable or constantly belittles them for believing Jesus was woke, which he was
So?
https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Learn-Be-Brave-ebook/dp/B0BBPHQ6T2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3BVZMPWV8D17R&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hM_ovaHDqIUk8l7LV4HsQLFrNFn1GAM6hJaG6wTxeU0f8CBHPKqLihkbK_isjJDy7mrWAj5hEErGz_UGBr6LX2TaICIO--5z3HR0Dqywm6W1hy1Ezyobh84z0MwdoCWA0W0-ZqQYVXzL7qY7AYpnoA.BsnMXBzBn1tJFtnLz_Xx92FH_zB_vl9C8cuOlZI1k_U&dib_tag=se&keywords=how+we+learn+to+be+brave%5C&qid=1737564584&s=books&sprefix=how+we+learn+to+be+brave%2Cstripbooks%2C151&sr=1-1
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867532070/trumps-unannounced-church-visit-angers-church-officials
https://www.umc.org/en/content/pastoral-letter-addressing-plight-of-migrants-immigrants-and-refugees
And if these people actually exist they are clearly in their own bubbles or vastly outnumbered by their conservative counterparts.
Which includes being humble.
So... You don't hear about them as much as the mega churches with coke mirrors in the bathrooms.
He recently got told that he must be a democrat, because he wouldn't all Obama the N word from the pulpit.
At a church in the bible belt.
https://episcopalmigrationministries.org/
1. The nativity story, with the Magnificat and humility and powerlessness and all.
2. Jimmy Carter’s life — as a SOUTHERN BAPTIST! — showing the lies of Xn Nationalism.
3. Bishop Budde speaking truth to power.
2) It’s funny that the Beatitudes are considered “progressive”
This was a person who’s more Christ-like than a religious or political person.
That's not the case: They *also* announced she was preaching in October, and were very clear about that.
Or, maybe conservativism was never really a political movment that extols the teachings and virtues of Christianity.
You were good Germans all this time. YOU OWN THIS. EAT IT.
Christ: Blessed are the Peace Makers!
Christian Nationalism: America First!
Christ: for God so loved the world
Christian Nationalism: Mass Deportation!
Christ: Welcome the Stranger!
Christian Nationalism: U.S.
Christ: “Us”
The work has already started to make us a White Nationalist and Christian Nationalist country, and a dumb one to boot.
My latest blog post. Please share and subscribe for free on its home page.
https://musingsofanobodyweb.wordpress.com/2025/01/25/whiter-holier-dumber-how-far-will-we-go/
There’s a polar difference between The Holy Spirit &
The Religious Spirit
My neighbour sent me down a rabbit hole when I expressed my concern about the enormous amount of “Christians” who aren’t
“Christian-ly” in the slightest.
Frankly, it all sounded like an excuse , IMO 🤦♀️
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Gandhi
Pardon my cynicism, but I’ve seen more hate, bigotry, racism, and violence from self proclaimed “children of Christ” than any single group in America. So thanks, but this isn’t a heartwarming story
FOTUS is the furthest thing from religious.
John's portrait is a little different. 😎
Not so much. Not the Episcopalians.
Nobody remembers well the children of Aquarius, but some of them are still out here.
More to the point: Different religious groups trend in different directions politically; i.e., conservative evangelicals don't tend to take cues from liberal mainliners, and vice versa.
The liberal-leaning Episcopalian faith is rapidly shrinking, while Evangelicals have abandoned the sermon on the mount and found new prophets. What call to action is there to right the wrongs of the modern clergy?
So what is being done by the church leaders in general to correct course? Prayer?
It’s that simple.
Romans 10:9-10
"Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."
I was summarizing the culmination of the law as it is near me “ in my mouth and heart.”
Follow the teachings of Jesus.
That's all Jesus said to do to be free and gratified.
Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
God, save us from the love of “progressive christians”
Not a single story I read mentioned the fact that the Episcopal diocese of DC has been a sanctuary diocese since 2018. MAGA evangelicals get tons of press.
This isnt an attack. It is as much a confession as anything else. There have been times when people like us turned the tide. That this is not (yet) one of those times makes me ashamed.
Like, he’s never listened in church before
Where were their votes?
I don't blame Kamala for failing to do the impossible, but Biden and the DNC failed to accept that they needed to start running a succession plan starting Jan 20, 2021.
Instead they hoped to run out the clock and we all suffer.
But I also didn’t see the progressive Christians mentioned here making any sort of difference when it mattered.
Now what?