Some never do. Ask our fellow Americans that still identify as “ Confederates”, White Nationalists in South Africa, Vladimir Putin, Chinese Communist Party, the Likud Party and those that keep electing them, those that support Hamas… English unionists in Ireland.. shall I continue ?
It takes something deus ex machina that obliterates the framing and narrative. Like Germany declaring war on the u.s. didn't cure or stop the racism etc.
never was in question, the suffering they bring will and already is affecting millions of innocent people, but the fact that the majority of them will also suffer as well is somewhat satisfing
That is a myth. We are in our current situation because people do not believe they are on the wrong side of history and think it is a crime to suggest they are.
At this point, they are just rushing around rewriting or erasing history to make sure they are on the "right" side. They didn't like America as it was too inclusive, so now they are trying to create something new, where they are the heroes. The heroes of Trumpistan.
Wrapping up my 70th year.
Spent my first six decades baffled by the rise of Hitler.
Spent the past decade baffled by how my neighbors could re-enact it.
I remember being a kid and asking my mom why Hitler killed all those Jewish people. She said there was no good explanation. She herself was catholic, but had a Jewish sounding last name. She said she experienced some antisemitism here in America and she wasn't even Jewish.
To quote Omar El Akkad: “One day, when it’s safe, when there’s no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it’s too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”
Willful ignorance is one of our genome’s most maladaptive traits. We are witnessing the unraveling of our government — millions are already hit directly, millions more refuse to believe their own eyes at their own peril. That we don’t evolve past this is a key barrier to everyone’s stability.
How long does it take the frog to realize the water is boiling?
For many (including some close to me), they choose to not see the large cracks ripping through US democratic protections and intentionally mute themselves to news that may shatter the cultish view they currently hold of the DJT admin.
Since history is written by the victors, it remains an open question *who, exactly* is on the “wrong side” until that history gets written. And maybe re-written.
Usually when total destruction and mass casualties have occurred. Oh, and they lose. But then the “lost cause” starts and…. Well, rinse
and repeat , y’know?
As a history teacher I can tell you that those who choose the wrong side often double down and refuse to admit it.
George Wallace immediately comes to mind.
That is a complicated question. There are so many analogs in history (e.g. Germans in WW2) where people didn’t change when they could. In the US, the educational system has sacrificed history and civics in our pursuit for STEM. Finally, the US has never truly owned up to our past and its lessons.
A friend posted a pic of the Jonestown massacre, and it hit home. I don’t need to repost the image. People really invested in a lie that centers on the nature of their reality don’t back away.
I listen to Make Me Smart at this point to hear someone besides myself as the critical question of the day: what the fuck is wrong with these people? Sanity checks are much appreciated
They're on the side of history they want to be on... and since they believe they are infallible, they must, therefore, be on the right side history, for they can not be wrong.
I feel like I’m surrounded by sleepwalkers. I fear it’s not so much about how long, but what catastrophe has to happen to these people for them to wake up.
Look to history and Nazi concentration camp officers. Even when the rope was tight on their necks, they believed they were right. Some people can justify horror.
That’s the problem, Kai. History doesn’t have sides except in its telling. History is a lot of things but it’s also the marshaling of evidence to make an argument about the present and the answer to this I think is that we let history become almost anything but that and without that, no sides.
The winners write history. Look at the narrative around the us civil war. North says slavery, south can’t say anything because it lost but it was about tariffs killing the south’s exports to the benefit of the norths industrialisation. Slavery is shit but so is bullying.
Luckily, that does not have to happen. In a best case scenario, folks will say that MAGA “got off course” and that its influence only waned after it “saved America.”
If people have to admit they were wrong, then we might as well start Mad Maxing it today.
This is almost charmingly naive. As others are pointing out throughout the comments, Nazism and Confederate apologists still exist and are, in fact, ascendant. History is formed by the actions of people. It's not some amorphous thing that evolves on its own.
Until they themselves are directly, grievously harmed. Their hurricane-decimated city isn’t rebuilt. Their family members die in an uncontrolled epidemic. They lose their jobs and their retirement accounts. The food in the grocery sends them to the ER. They’re thrown in jail.
I mean, there were Germans still denying that anything was happening during the Shoah until US soldiers made them dig up and look at the bodies at the camps.
Doubling down on convictions. It’s tough that between certain churches, the entire Republican Party and right wing media there is an ecosystem that sustains Donny and his minions. Support local news.
You might ask, will some people ever realize they were on the wrong side, or instead change their belief system to coincide with their (misguided) allegiance? #CognitiveDissonance
Not only do they not see they’re on the wrong side of history, they believe the history we consider settled is still being written. They see it as an ongoing struggle against progress, which began with the New Deal or even the Civil War. They lost those battles but intend to win the war.
When will national NPR reporters be brave enough to call these people racists, fascists, morons, etc? Hell, when will they even try to say that they are acting like fascists?
They aren’t on the wrong side of history if they are able to write the history and ban what they deem as “liberal interpretations”. The cult is never waking up. But many Americans are feeling the pain from Trump’s policies. We need to win those people over by proposing policy that helps them.
Part of me is like “Why would they think that?” They have complete control of government, there is no real resistance from courts or Congress, one of them is literally the richest person on earth. There are no consequences so why would they think they are wrong?
If you look around and see Stephen Miller, Confederate flags, and literal Nazis around you, it would seem obvious.
But there is that damnably accurate line about the U.S. being the only nation perpetually at war with reality.
So, I'll go with "never."
I think it's right in your question, Kai. Most won't until after it *is* history, or at least until the tide has already turned. Look at the US attitudes before WW II.
Worse, many will, after the fact, claim to have never really have been on the wrong side. Some will even believe it.
I hate the phrase, "wrong side of history". I know you majored in history and I teach history; we both know history doesn't have a side. But good and evil exist in this world just as plainly as light & darkness; hot & cold. We should start calling evil what it is, no matter where "history" takes us.
I'm a 53 year old American-born white woman who is seriously wondering if she has the moral fortitude to lie down in front of a tank and let me tell you, this is not how I wanted to spend the rest of my life.
Some people will never ADMIT they were wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean that in their heads they don't realize they're wrong. That said, it's largely a distinction without a difference. The important part is that the allies marshaled the RAW POWER to defeat the Nazis, and we need to do that 2.
We need to start by just organizing - start by organizing large, non-violent resistance movements. 1) We have an ethical obligation to at least try non-violent resistance before escalation to violence. 2) We have an ethical obligation to try to change the system with ballots before violence. (cont)
3) Strategically, in terms of growing public support for a resistance movement, if you wait for the fascists to escalate to unjust arrests and committing violence first, more of the public will see you as in the right and the government in the wrong.
4) If and when things switch to full civil war...
You want to have absolutely as many people on your side as possible. Any resistance movement needs to grow, but when movements start as a very small number of people calling for and committing violence, they will quickly get squashed, and the members all arrested or killed, before the movement grows
My most doomer take currently is I cannot see scales falling from eyes. I don't care how bad it gets, the lesson learned will be either:
- Trump was stabbed in the back.
- Trump was an imperfect vessel; the next firebrand to grab the mantle will be smart enough for authoritarianism to work.
History suggests that they grasp it only after they've received a six-pack of whoopass, and are groping confused amidst the wreckage of their actions. It's awful. I don't want to see all this shit crash down on any of us, even Trumpers. But how long can we protect them from their deceivers?
When their leaders are strung up feet first in public, or shoot themselved in underground bunkers. Then the people who followed them carefully retcon their lives so that they were never on the wrong side.
"Power concedes nothing without a demand...Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them...The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
-Frederick Douglass
Most never do. Covid patients died cursing their doctors through their oxygen masks. They called the people trying to heal them liars and poisoners even as their bodies gave out in the face of the virus.
Go @kairyssdal.bsky.social ! Listening to the opening of Make Me Smart pod, and Yes! “What the *#@$ is the matter with these people!” Bravo sir, we ALL are feeling the SAME!
It’s a long process. Most Germans thought they were on the right side of history from 1933 to 1944, when it became increasingly clear that their world was about to crash to the ground. Americans aren’t there yet, but getting closer by the day.
They often never realize. It’s important to remember that the people at Jonestown drank the Kool-Aid because it was easier than admitting. They had sold their souls to a ConMan.
For every downside we see they see up side. A guy the other day felt because he pays more taxes (not true), his vote should count more. His company should get a vote too. He doesn't want to fund dept of edu, so it should be gone. Vouchers, not so fast. Wants my taxes to pay for his secular edu.
MAGAs are so deep in even an intervention won’t help. Still defending Trump. Still make excuses as they watch the unraveling of institutions. Until the majority have a Come to Reality moment (ie. affects them in real time) it may be longer than any of us think.
Comments
*and counting
May 9, 2023: Jury Finds Him LIABLE FOR SEXUAL ABUSE.
He Is Forever-A SEX OFFENDER!
May 30, 2024: Jury Finds Him GUILTY OF 34 FELONIES.
He Is Forever-A CONVICTED FELON!
JANUARY 10, 2025: Judge Passes Sentence on Felony Convictions.
He Is Forever-A CONVICT!
Spent my first six decades baffled by the rise of Hitler.
Spent the past decade baffled by how my neighbors could re-enact it.
They will never accept blame or consequence.
For many (including some close to me), they choose to not see the large cracks ripping through US democratic protections and intentionally mute themselves to news that may shatter the cultish view they currently hold of the DJT admin.
and repeat , y’know?
George Wallace immediately comes to mind.
(Not an endorsement)
If people have to admit they were wrong, then we might as well start Mad Maxing it today.
https://theonion.com/scalia-thomas-roberts-alito-suddenly-realize-they-wi-1819575203/
There are still those proud to fly Confederate flags.
it's not whether they realize being on the wrong side of history, but whether they relish it.
look at the smiles on their faces as their evil grows.
"(and cannot imagine that they are not, bc no theory of mind/ congenital solipsism)
But their kids and their grandchildren will realize it when they read their history books.
But there is that damnably accurate line about the U.S. being the only nation perpetually at war with reality.
So, I'll go with "never."
Worse, many will, after the fact, claim to have never really have been on the wrong side. Some will even believe it.
"None of the defendants would admit their personal guilt. Hardly anyone showed remorse or admitted knowing about massacres and extermination camps."
https://www.dw.com/en/nuremberg-trials-a-warning-to-war-criminals-and-dictators/a-55634256
A shocking proportion of the W German government was composed of former nazis. Not just party members, but true believers.
4) If and when things switch to full civil war...
- Trump was stabbed in the back.
- Trump was an imperfect vessel; the next firebrand to grab the mantle will be smart enough for authoritarianism to work.
Let’s hope there’s anything left to salvage when it happens.
Never.
When do regular people “just following orders” realise they are on the wrong side of history?
Right around the time they walk in to the warcrimes / crimes against humanity trial room.
-Frederick Douglass
Most Republicans must know how awful Trump and Co are, but they won’t speak up until they, personally, need to protect themselves.
Then it will be “I can’t believe how terrible Trump became! Fooled me!”
Morally/ethically there is but not historically.