I know this because I have brothers and other acquaintances that have no close friends, and in addition, no therapist - and they tend to stigmatize mental health. I, on the other hand, have a guys group that meets regularly and we are very close - 12 guys and growing - all liberal minded Dems.
she ... her .. they .. them.. him .. he .. those ... me, myself and Irene ... take your pick.
Like when a cop pulled over a girl for speeding, and the first words she said: DO you know who my daddy is?
The cop: Didn't your mommy ever tell you ?
... confusion runs amok ... phq pronouns
I really hate this for young women especially. As an older single lady I’ve given up on dating. They’re all damaged goods, they hate women because of their previous relationships and have no outside friends.
They definitely blame their past relationships, but their hatred of women does not come from having an unsuccessful relationship with one or two or a dozen. Their hatred of women is more likely to be the cause of those prior relationship problems than the result of them.
Married heterosexual women report being the least satisfied in their relationships and are the most likely to file for divorce. It seems most straight men don't know how to be a partner, just a dependent. You deserve more
When you look at studies of husbands verses wives division of child care and housework, it’s simply better for women to be alone. Financially though, it’s better for women when there’s 2 incomes. We can’t win for losing. 😂 But yes we want a partner, not another dependent.
I was married at 26, have been divorced for 12 yrs. I wish my marriage had lasted, of course I do! But it was lonely being the one who did all the emotional labor (in addition to other things). My hope for men is that they find a way to feel free w/ their emotions. It’s better for everyone
Yes even when you have the most "understanding, kind, everyone else thinks he's walking on water Jesus" level man, like I have. And still the communication skills, the under functioning for social and emotional intelligence and the subconscious assumption I should fill any and all gaps is REAL!
Truth. I don't bother bothering my girlfriend with any of my shit, though. She's got her own shit. When nobody wants to hear your shit, eventually you clam up about it. That no friends business is for real, though.
You only get to be a “tough guy” when you’ve earned it with a convincing traumatic backstory, viz: You’re Bruce Wayne, Matthew Murdock, Francis Castiglione . . .
It helps if you’re constantly introspective about your condition and are trying to get out of the lifestyle.
Toxic masculinity has the look of underachieving men who had an indifferent, lazy approach to their future & found themselves in the cold while more intrepid individuals succeeded. It doesn't help that many also adopted a street culture lifestyle that doesn't translate to success in normal society.
Appreciate your take on this. Some comments on the OP seem to completely miss these important issues. Asking questions, showing concern shouldn’t be to get “gossip.” We should ask questions to demonstrate compassion and empathy, and to offer support. The situation and many of the comments are sad.
Information like "did he get the ring back" and "what did they do about the catering reservations" aren't about supporting his friend. They are about gossip.
Yeah was thinking this too. Quite intrusive questions and very much gossipy. It’s also quite possible it was mentioned in passing or he doesn’t know the guy well enough to ask these things. And sometimes support isn’t through words, but being there physically. This conclusion is quite a stretch imo.
What if the general mood of this meetup with his friend was he didn't want to talk about the breakup? That means those questions weren't appropriate. I'm surprised the girl never asked about the friend's mood when they met. It might have explained why the questions weren't asked.
The wife simply doesn't realise she has literally no part in this topic. Could well be his friend cried his eyes out and they spent the day discussing love and life for hours, but that is none of her business so he just shuts off the conversation.
Odds are this is staged for content anyway, but if your theory is true he could also communicate that. "I do not feel comfortable discussing the intimate details of my friends vulnerable moment, especially on camera." Given the "loneliness" problem men are having, it still works as an example though
Not the best idea to extrapolate interpersonal dynamics off staged TikTok videos. I wouldnt presume to tell anyone how to be a friend. I’ve cried happy & sad tears w my closest guy friends. I’ve also hung w friends suffering a loss without discussing it because sometimes showing up is what’s needed!
I don’t see it as an extrapolation. This clip just reminded her of something within her own marriage and so she commented with that. Also, nothing she said was untrue
She’s taking a staged vid to cite an article making broad & antiquated takes about men’s friendships/emotions. The article relies heavily on anecdotal cases. Are there men who are still emotional toddlers? Of course! Where shes mistaken is asserting modern men don’t have close vulnerable friendships
Again, anecdotal. It doesn’t invalidate your exps no more than mine being the exact opposite. It just ignores progress: male athletes discussing mental health struggles publicly/men openly discussing fatherhood/ect. Point is it doesn’t have to conform to what she or you deem as friendship to be real
Everyone has their own way of dealing with life situations. The main thing is to do it in a healthy way. Most people don't feel safe doing so, and that's an awful way to live a life.
I clicked and realized that I already had it bookmarked. Men are raised to believe you are either a predator or prey and having emotions makes you prey to bullies and other men. It is a horrible mess. Men are so worried about their masculinity they have broken it.
It really is nuts. My husband has a really close friend with a new second wife, combined family. Every time he hangs out and comes back I ask about how the kids/wife/relationship are doing and my husband responds with "I have no idea. Didn't really ask him". WTF!
Still thinking about this and how it explains so much of my life.
Did you or your friend consider how this affects female friendships? So my husband of 21 years is the bottle it up type. I am an oversharer. I realized he will never be my regular chat partner. So of course I need separate friends
OLD Testament was written in Parables, as Christ taught in the New Testament, Revelations is a Vatican Construct, to make you Fear, instead of embrace God love.
Read the story of the Canaanite woman. I’d argue that Jesus was only concerned with fellow Hebrews. He thought the world would end in his disciple’s life, and preached a message of division and fear. I urge you to take a harder look at the entirety of his story. Contradictions and all.
Faith crosses boundaries, though she is a Gentile, her faith surpassed, many Jews of the time.
She did not give up, even when Christ seemed distant.
She accepted her position, but still dared to ask for mercy.
My theory (as a man) is, centuries ago a higher percentage of men died early b/c of hunting accidents, disease, stupidity, etc. So, there are more men surviving into middle and old age who probably shouldn’t. I say bring back hunting parties. Send them out into the wilderness in large groups.
Biggest drawbacks to the article is that centers on the question "what does it mean to be a man?"
Asking instead "what does it mean to be a good human being" eliminates that a difference between men & women is a given; which is the entire issue that men have with emotions
Interesting! I feel like the central question is about how men are socialized though which is completely external and constructed and absolutely a social binary worth naming and interrogating. Agree that assuming we function different emotionally isn’t very useful though for sure.
Given that the world is patriarchal this is a "cutting off your nose to spite your face" scenario
Men are bemoaning the result of a game they designed that has hampered their humanity
Notice how men now care bc they are suffering due to women no longer being willing to be their emotional pack mule
My ex-wife made sure that I understood my feelings were irrelevant, and that any attempt to discuss how I felt would be dismissed with “be a man” or the like.
The Republican party is full of cunts like your ex-wife. Women who want to screw over other women as much as they screw over men by shoving them into roles which prevent them from being anything like themselves
Not trying to be snarky here, I think this is a valuable conversation, but how many men alive today "designed this game" as it were, as opposed to just being born into a system cooked up by old dead guys long before them that they suffer from now?
Fair point men today did not "design the game".
However, how many support it? Or how many do nothing to change it? How many enjoy the benefits of it but then complain it doesn't serve them 100%? How many want others to fix it for them? (women)
And how many stand by while it hurts others?
I'm going under and this time I fear there's no one to save me
This all or nothing really got a way of driving me crazy
I need somebody to heal
Somebody to know
Somebody to have
Somebody to hold…
This video isn’t about that though. This video is about a woman who wants to know details, and she’s bugging her partner about it. Her partner isn’t coming to *her*. He doesn’t wanna talk about it. this is all on her. If she’s carrying his baggage for him, because she’s asking him for it.
the video is about men not sharing with each other. hence why she captioned the original clip "men never ask for the details" his friend called off his engagement & he didn't ask why. men failing to talk to each other about their emotions puts strain on their female partners. how is that unclear?
This whole post is about women bearing the burden of men coming to them needing to talk about their emotional blah blah blah because they don’t have any friends!
That is not at all what this clip is about. What emotional weight is this woman bearing? Besides toxic curiosity?
I agree with you, but even if I did't, you get to speak your truth.
The idea that a partner or spouse is there for you has expanded into 'you are the dart board', or worse.
I had 7 brothers, 4 sons, and one husband, so I have some personal experience that aligns with your point.
Married forty years, and glad I never dated, nor married, an emotionally stunted guy. From what I've seen, women who choose emotionally-unavailable partners had fathers who were emotionally stunted, and thus grew up believing that was normal masculine default setting. SAD
I don’t have many friends. I really don’t require many. My best friend of 33 years has just come out as a trans woman. What’s funny is that I’ve always been an open book with my emotions. He, now she, never was. That’s all changed now. Our friendship has changed for the better now that she’s a woman
Men have been trained not to bend to their feelings for millennia. Duty, responsibility, etc..
Stoicism was not only popular for many generations, it was a requirement for survival for many societies.
We live in a country where feelings are facts.
Managing ones feelings used to be the goal.
if you’re not sharing your feelings with your friends and your not turning around and dumping those feelings on your partner… then nothing about this situation is related to you at all.
The distinction between male and female friendships is not new. C.S. Lewis’ book the Four Loves has a chapter on Friendships but its very much from a male perspective, in which the friends are focused on a shared activity instead of each other.
Wait. Is someone suggesting this is a NEW THING? Ffs.
Just anecdotal of course, but my experience over 3 generations- my dad, me, and my son- shows tremendous evolution in emotional intelligence and openness. At the same time, the assumption that all woman are perfect in this dimension is farcical.
He and other men lack empathy is ways that scare me. Someone tells you a hard thing and you say nothing and keep play golf? Men are lonely because they deserve it
Unpopular opinion, but women have to take their part on this too. Why, because most women don't like seeing boys/men being "soft"; a lot of women force masculinity onto their boys as well. I think if all parties under the sun of pronouns just let people BE the world, maybe it will be better.
lol! Because they’re also often part of the problem (distraction). It’s an ongoing project for everyone and real empathy understands that rather than making accusations 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, when we have men who are unable to express their feelings and get called soft when they TRY to follow in the steps of being open, and YET women complain. Yes, women evolved but not much they are just as toxic. Again not all women and lala but when the last time yo home boy express his feels 2U?
While everyone can contribute to the harmful affects of patriarchal conditioning by pushing harmful beliefs… you should definitely ask yourself why your first reaction was to criticize women in a topic about men not being vulnerable with other men.
I think they meant it’s an issue for society at large and there’s a lot of women who’ve been conditioned to find the tough guy bullshit attractive, and to teach their sons the tough guy bullshit, ya know?
Men have the ability to seek therapy, just like everyone else. The point of the original post is that women are somehow still being made responsible for men's lack of emotional depth.
Weird, I didn’t get that impression at all. I’m not sure where you saw that women were to bear the brunt of the solution when the ask read to me as “women need to stop reinforcing negative stereotypes about emotional men” which like, yeah?
The more I see it, the more I grow convinced there is just 0 advantage for women to be in relationship with men. I mean for them it's just more emotional/domestic work, risks to be abused/killed, also a big economical loss. Maybe we should question until we men cease to globally be immature shits...
💯There are men who are doing the work which shows it's possible. It's just globally there is a rigid mindset about all of this. This proliferation of unhealthy cruel behavior happens in dysfunctional systems and I can't tell you how many survivors broke that cycle, all alone.
I don't think she understands a real partnership in any relationship should include any and all needs to one another. I don't have male friends, my gf is my best friend. We support each other. No question
I've been married for a long time. I do not share my feelings or talk much to my wife about personal shit. I will never discuss personal matters with another man. This has nothing to do with toxic masculinity, its just not ok cause its reckless and creates unnecessary vulnerabilities...
Your view of relationships is adversely rather than collaborative. I imagine your just copying what you saw growing up where show vulnerability was used a cudgel. I say this will love and for the sake of your marriage, talk to a therapists. This is not healthy. It is the definition of toxic.
1st off,not every female wants a man that overshares. 2nd, if I grew up in an environment where it was ok to share personal matters then it would apply. Unfortunately for me, my life is not a disney sitcom or movie. People are flawed so beware.
This is you’re life partner we are talking about. If you can’t be vulnerable with them then I truly pity you. The world is a hostile place but everyone needs respite. A safe harbour. I hope you do well. I just don’t know how long anyone can sail alone. Good luck and God speed.
You have to stop thinking you are right about everything. Just because something works for you does not mean it applies to the rest of humanity. That sort of thinking is why the world is so fucked up.
Men are clearly not women but every article trying to explain them to women including this one views them through the perspective of a woman. It’s always wrong. I’ve seen decades of different versions of this article
Doods in the comments proving to me there’s a problem. I’m so glad I got away from my ex-husband finally. I will never have another guy in my life again. Not worth it. I’m going to retire and do exactly what I want, when I want. Marriage blows.
Also the linked article by Gemma Hartley, is the reason I finally understood how burdened and fed up I was by my manchild. Another great book is by Matt Fray, This is how your marriage ends.
"The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation." (Henry David Thoreau) That is true because it is what society demands of men. Men are taught early to conceal their authentic selves. That is the quiet part and leads to desperation. We need a world where everyone is free and equal.
Damn what a brilliant insight. Why didn't I think of that? Brb off to single handedly dismantle millennia of deeply encoded social BS and preach it to every man who will definitely be completely open and receptive to the message.
Hell, some of the deep red conservative guys will probably see my queer nonbinary gender nonconforming ass and welcome me with open arms to join in a friendship circle and sing Kumbaya.
I’m not on TikTok, haven’t seen the full clip.
Is it possible he is saying “I don’t know” to her because he DOES know & it will cause a problem with his partner? That he’s avoiding conflict? That’s obvs not good either but it means he might have a good relationship with his friend but not his wife?
Hmm. I thought a poss was she knew the people too.
I know men like that. I also know men who would press for more info or be emotionally supportive. But yes. Not enough. I’m thankful I have some great, close man-friendships and have always been able to create them. Not many but you don’t need many
Someone said somewhere (I don’t remember where) “it’s not enough to be interesting, you have to be interested” and I really think a lot of men struggle with this. Women learn these skills b/c we are expected to not center ourselves. I wonder if there is a correlation to how we treat boys vs girls. 🤷♀️
Is there more context than this? Because watching the video, it's clear he doesn't want to talk about his friend's breakup while being filmed for his gf's social media video.If that's the case, then isn't he actually be a good friend to Brian by not sharing his business with social media?
I agree. There's an emotional maturity of being able to say, even to your person, "I don't feel right talking about his business" or "it was shared in confidence."
Either it’s bad acting or he’s expressing being uncomfortable there.
On a related note. How many couples pull out their cameras to film and publish private conversations like this. I guarantee you it won’t help
men open up. Not in the slightest
There’s possibly something to that. However. If that were the case he has every opportunity to say he doesn’t want to discuss his friend’s personal life on TikTok and he probably should have said that.
There’s obviously much that we don’t know so speculation is not a great idea.
However….
….the original poster is right with their core premise that many men are not capable of talking about their emotions with each other. Whether this is even a sincere and real video is questionable, imho, but the premise isn’t.
Men need to do better with this, particularly men under 30.
This was a joke a long time ago: Why do married men live longer than their wives? Because they suck all the life out of them! That's what the ring is for... to pay you back for all the life they suck out of you. I believe it was in an early Michelle Wolf comedy special.
As a queer person in the rural south, relentlessly bullied by cis-straight men, I initially experienced shaudenfreude when I first read about the male loneliness epidemic. But in the past few years, I've made some straight friends, and honestly their stories are kinda sad.
So many of them were isolated, specifically because they refused to be the knuckle-dragging stereotype of a alpha male, but there wasn't a space for hetero men with any emotional intelligence.
This issue (in part) indirectly led to the end of my previous relationship year relationship of seven years. There were other issues, but this was a part of it. "Male loneliness epidemic" yet men won't fuckin talk to each other! Guys I promise it's ok to talk about your feelings.
Nah it's still a problem. Not everybody is a social butterfly, but everybody needs at least *someone* to talk to. And the idea that a man not talking to anyone, even if that includes not overburdening women, wouldn't show up harmfully in other ways is pretty naive.
It's probably because I'm a pretty extreme introvert but I have to disagree. Yes I like talking to somebody. But I can go a really long time without having really deep conversations with anyone. We're talking like days or weeks.
When you do talk to someone, does it brighten your day? My perspective is skewed as an extrovert, but still, talking to folks makes The Horrors™️ a little more bearable for most. I don't think I've met someone for whom that isn't at least a little true, but maybe there's a first time for everything
Is it? I feel like anger is a symptom or a reaction. It’s more like an inability to process or cope. At best it’s what happens when too many emotions come out at once because you don’t know how to properly express yourself.
Who doesn’t want men to say “holy shit, 1000’s of years of women being denigrated, subjugated, and undermined has fucked us ALL over to a degree that should be unfathomable, but is reality instead.”?
That is why I don't get that some (often women) get so terribly irritated when someone (often men) point out the issues?problems/disadvantages that men have in patriarchical societies.
I thought you meant that young men are taught the erroneous? message that women do not want men who show emotions, they want to stoic loaner-cowboy-bad boy bootstrap puller & will not want a man that is empathetic and emotional. It's what we're taught even if it's wrong, & that's part of patriarchy.
Are they pointing out the issues to other men, or are they pointing out the issues to women when women are having conversations about the issues that they face? I feel like the conversation often comes off as a dismissive "Stop complaining, it's bad for us too" instead of happening in male spaces
Well, I imagine it’s because a lot of women have a “sleep in the bed you make” mindset towards ALL men. A lot of men have spent the heir entire lives overlooking their friends being scumbags out of fear of being labeled a “pussy” or some other term that implies femininity (derogatorily).
Personally, I tend to agree with those women. Dudes fuckin SUUUUUCK. Is it an individual dude’s fault? Nope. But unless they take onus over their own (maybe unintentional) misogynistic actions (which a male-dominated society has normalized and encouraged), they’re complicit.
🎯 All of this!!! Also reminds me of how much I hate when women are called 'emotional.' Anger and rage are emotions which we see men exhibit on the regular nowadays, why don't men get called 'emotional'?!!
Yeah most people don't talk about women who uphold the patriarchy, I've known a lot of men, fathers even, who if they have a moment of weakness they aren't consoled, they are mocked.
Yeah, I feel you there, I'm an elder millennial, and it took a lot of work to be able to open up more than that. Plus, I'm at the point where if I do encounter such a partner (non supportive), I just leave them if it can't be addressed.
I remember when I was with my now Ex. I encouraged him to join a Facebook group, nothing special, just like Star Wars or something. He was so f•ing resistant to it!
Having had a friend that went through a divorce, I'm pleased to report I did ask questions and offered support. I'm still emotionally stunted, but only slightly.
You can’t use female reasoning to try to understand men. Just like men can’t use male logic on females. We know this plus an emotional man is not the same as a stable man period. Females always want to change a man into something he’s not. You’ll get a very soft and mentally compromised man. Stop it
I can’t believe that a woman just admitted that females do not have the ability to emotionally support their male partners. They only know how to manipulate them for financial gain and to systematically destroy their self confidence and sense of worth. That’s what I got out of your nonsense.
It would seem you’ve made a mistake. Look at what I actually wrote and then look at your response. I believe the win is all mine. Next I expect you to start some kind of engagement where you throw around even more feelings. Go for it. If anything it will certainly be entertaining 😂
Please educate and explain. One of us is clearly off the charts. Copy, paste or add anything you’d like to prove your point. I’m not mad or angry but extremely curious.
He wants us to be his everything, not ever gonna happen, he wants us to be his mommy. I’m my kids mommy, not my husbands. This dude has issues and he needs therapy.
lol. They’re offended by not only words but words from a man expressing how men feel. Somehow certain females think they know how a man should be and go around mentally abusing them until they’re not the person they met and continue mentally abusing them for falling short. Interesting 🤔.
Dude you don’t represent us. I’m not even sure you represent yourself.
You’re transparently an ahole with that “females” label you’re choosing.
In addition you have completely misrepresented the post, the article, and nearly half of humanity.
Let’s see here. Let me review. I never said I represent you. I said “from my understanding”. Are you a joke. Are you serious. GTF off my feed. I didn’t address you. Wait, you think you’re important or special. Nope, you’re not. Begone!
It's okay Mark. Nobody can believe you're actually this stupid. You're just doing the usual misogynist thing of trying to pass your misogyny as terminal stupidity.
It's not working, in your particular case because you're both a misogynist and thicker than a specially imbecilic brick.
Well I’m thinking that you agree 💯 with what I said. It was not retaliation it was my opinion. That female expressed her understanding of *All Males. Not only is she not a male but left out the entire spectrum of the male species. Read her words and see what made me comment. Now she’s calling foul.
Putting all of one's own mental well being onto one other person means that you're both up shit creek without a paddle the first time that a bad day occurs for both of you on the same day.
You *gotta* have more than one person in your life that you can talk to about things.
And trust ME! Learning that in real time is afucking life changer. In my case, not for the better. Still picking up the pieces and wondering what the future holds.
Typically male roles are leadership roles. That’s in every aspect of life. When a male is not up to leadership that’s not a problem another person can fill the void even a female. When a disaster or emergency happens most males don’t scream 😱 and run away. They handle it and are expected to. It’s ok
Interesting. Is this exactly how your mind works. Please tell me and the audience more. No you won’t drag me down to where you are. I stand on the things I said. WTF are you talking about weirdo.
i can't believe that a man just admitted that males do not have the ability to read. they only know how to project their own insecurities and post their stupid, illiterate ramblings where they're very much unwanted. That's what I got out of your nonsense.
I am so grateful my father never told me to hide or run from my feelings as a child. Then spending my teens til my thirties in a punk environment only strengthened my ability to share my emotions with others, including my male friends.
This is a great perspective. My family uprooted and moved to Ireland to start a business. In Cali our support system is STRONG, with good friends who ask hard questions. Being here, I found myself retreating into myself UNTIL I made new friendships, real ones, with accountability and understanding.
Yeah so my guess would be the dude in the video knows all the details but doesn’t want to tell his partner for some reason. In my experience my friends keep my business tight. Can we just stop with the stereotypes of men? It’s like a bad stand up routine.
This is a horrible take. I don't know what kind of men you're dealing with but I know more men that sit around & talk about what's going on in their lives more than watching sports. & If you feel like your significant other is a burden due to talking about their emotions, move on or rethink things
THANK YOU!!! Me & the fellas talk about our thoughts and feels often. What a lot of women won't cop to is their propensity to weaponize a man's emotional "weakness" against him. I know I'm not the only man who's experienced that.
I agree. Maybe I’m just lucky bc the men I know don’t behave the way described in the video at all. Maybe it’s regional, or just the group they know and they’re generalizing.
Couldn't agree more but after giving it some thought, I think both the original video and this video are just clickbait
I mean, who goes and plays golf and doesn't mention an engagement called off while or before planning the outing?! Maybe they were more of acquaintances cause a lot doesn't add up
This tracks. I’ll add that because my ex had no friends, I was his only social outlet, and it was exhausting. I wanted to do things with my friends but he always wanted to come along and I just wanted him to get his own damn friends.
Let me go find that article cause Yesssssss! And there’s a flip side, if the man doesn’t even open up to his partner then it just sits internally festering till….what I don’t know?
As a therapist I’ve seen this in many negative behaviors of men in relationships. Romantic relationships with women are the only source of emotional connection.
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The woman literally used the word “juicy details”. All we know is the guys were ex-roommates. Doesn’t make them bosom pals Maybe the other guy didn’t want to share details of his pain. This doesn’t illustrate anything about toxic masculinity. There’s plenty of other evidence of that.
I got to say, after watching this video, she was really really nosy! I mean, if the guy wanted to talk about it, then he would have talked about it. Does she pry into other people's personal lives this much? It seems to me she's only interested in Gossip
Hey all, I replied to somebody else here and mentioned the "Mean Girls" trope. That probably wasn't fair. They blocked me, so I couldn't apologize in person
It depends.
If your male partner wants to spend all their time with you, and complains when you go out with friends, then that's a problem.
But if they enjoy their alone time, don't require you to be their therapist, and don't impinge on your social life, then its OK.
Nowhere has this video suggested all men are toxic. I very distinctly said “many straight men” and followed up by saying I know plenty of folks in healthy marriages.
Same thing here, my boyfriend tells me something juicy and I go when why how and he doesn’t have the answer I go how can you not follow up on this stuff ? !!!
Men can not afford to be emotional. That is for women and children. Emotional men are men raised in a single mother's home, and they emulate her chaotic behaviors that will ultimately put them in jail or the cemetary. Men must be logical and methodical, we cannot let our emotions rule us.
I realized decades ago that the men I had encountered in my life which included two husbands, were not my equals intellectually. I got so fed up with being their everything that I decided I was done with all of them. And now that I've been divorced for the last two decades I have never been happier.
And under no circumstances will I ever accept any of the burden for their shortcomings. It's all on them. I just one day realized that life is too short to play mommy to these men day after day, year after year.
My favorite is when their “friends” hurt their feelings or disrespect them and you’re supposed to counsel them through it while they never address it with the transgressor. And then when you don’t like said friends, you’re the bitch or whatever.
Lots of people have become so materialistic that they don't seem to care about anyone or anything outside of how it will be directly impacting them personally. As if friendships are purely transactional. My ex-wife was like this.. knew NOTHING about her friends.
It hits both ways too. I'm a relatively emotionally mature person, and can express my feelings, but because so many guys my age aren't doing that at all, I'm unable to have any friendships other than with my wife or with women in my life. I think the last time I had a true guy friend was high school
This isn't new. Toxic men always blame women for their own shortcomings and expect us to believe she's "crazy!" I suggest women speak to the former wife or girlfriend to find the truth. We shouldn't be blaming other wome for those men/children who won't hold themselves accountable!
What Does "Toxic Masculinity" Mean?
Toxic masculinity doesn’t mean all masculinity is bad or that being a man is inherently negative. The term is used to describe certain cultural norms and behaviors that can be harmful-to men themselves, as well as to others. Stop using it as an attack on men.
I think both men and women are victims and both need to bear the burden.
Why, for instance, do men and women get in a relationship and suddenly feel like they have to build a fort instead of supporting prior relationships? Is all that necessary?
Scott Galloway talks extensively about this in an interview with Trevor noah and in a book he's writing. I'm trying to not do this to my son. it's hard going against how you're raised. The Men are from Mars book, although old now, is good for this as well.
The best prevention is modeling. My father-in-law was a devoted husband to my late MIL and remains a devoted father with an active social life, and my husband and his brothers have healthy friendships, partnerships, etc.
You’re wrong. It’s that men shut up to be self protective. Men fear their emotions being used against them, because it happens. You open up to someone (Man or woman) about your feelings and you can bet it’ll be brought up later against you to shame.
Men do not cry together.
Better example is the “alpha male” genre going around now. If a woman claims to want an alpha male, she will ditch any man the moment he cries or shares deep personal feelings. So the man will keep to himself all those feelings until they pop.
I am not speaking for myself, I was replying to the OP. I don’t disagree with you, I am explaining how men think and why. Men do not share out of fear of it being used against them, by another man or woman. Man calls them a pussy and a woman says they’re not strong enough if they cry or share. Facts
this is why i encouraged my kids to look into something california has for people up to the age of 25, free options for counseling. it’s good to embrace mental health as a positive thing for the young generation because it wasnt done for most generations, it was hidden. https://solunaapp.com
What if this man knows exactly why his friend is getting a divorce but didn't want to betray the trust of his friend or burden his own partner with knowledge that make their own interactions we the ex-fiance more difficulty.
To then make a video about not wanting to be a mans therapist is all you.
So accurate it hurts. I reach out to check on my guy friends when there is a tragedy or to give them their flowers when they get a win, and they almost go into shock. Technology has ruined community.
You know how I know this is true, a friend of my sons moved to Texas. He got married and they were having problems and I guess they were getting a divorce so he came back here. I asked my son I said why are they getting a divorce? I said what happened he’s like I don’t know. I’m like you didn’t ask🤨
This is so true, and so sad. I have a great group of girlfriends, and we do stuff with spouses and SO’s all the time…but it’s the ONLY thing the guys ever do outside of the house. They don’t have friends of their own, just their SO’s friends spouses that they see at a gathering every now and then
I think some men are too lazy to even try to connect on an emotional level particularly when all their needs have been met and they haven't had to make any effort to even interact with the supplies. ie Mothers wives etc.
He probably didn't ask why cause he was looking for an out of the relationship anyway. It ain't that deep. Women are real quick to question a guys manhood when he's just not that into you, unfortunately some of us guys don't come to that realization until we're in too far.
Well you know what I would want to do for those 4 hours? Not have to f****** talk about the goddamn dumpster fire that is my life. People need a break from their grief. Jesus Christ why don't women understand that? Talking doesn't always make it better
Married 52 years. My husband has no friends. I've tried for literally decades to get him to find friends or groups he can hang out with. He barely talks to his sisters. He's in cognitive decline now. I stay because I feel an obligation to take care of him. Have to do attitude adjustments regularly.
Well let's clarify some things here. Did his having no friends mean that he put too much on you to be his only source of friendship? Or was he comfortable having no friends and that just bothered you with no other issues?
Can’t clarify without getting into personal details. Your first one is more true than the second but neither is exactly correct.
The OP brought up men not having friends. My husband has no friends. I understand but need to remind myself of why when he’s driving me crazy. Thus, attitude adjustment.
Fucking American women don’t allow their men to have friends. They want FULL attention! They can go fuck themselves. Although if I was a beautiful woman I wouldn’t have anything to do with men. But I’d have other women and tgirls in my life for sure.
Maybe, just maybe, for men the details are not that important, but the actual fact does. They can still support their friend. I could imagine myself asking how or when, though.
Or maybe they are not comfortable to share the details to you. To break the trust their friend shoved to them.
He knows exactly why his friend is calling off the engagement. Not that it matters much, because, in the end, he'd still stick to him even if it was was the stupidest of non-reasons.
But he does not want to tell his wife anything about it, because it is none of her businesses. She has no part here.
This is a very good point.
If you are thinking of getting married
or living together, do yourselves a favor
and go to therapy first.
Don't wait until all the baggage piles up
and you don't know what to do!
Men would do better if they weren’t brainwashed from age 2 on to shut down emotionally—as the one true path to masculinity. I’ll never forget hearing my mother say to my 3-year-old son, “Don’t whine. That’s what little girls do.” The problem is systemic. It’s not just about men.
I mean, if any man weren’t subjected to brainwashing. Things have changed a little, but I doubt there are more than a handful of American men who haven’t had this early indoctrination, from their parents and/or their peers. 1/2
Can an American boy avoid hearing, “What are you, gay?” at the slightest deviation from the cowboy code? I seriously doubt it. It’s so engrained that many men go to great lengths to stay in character, even when they desperately need consolation, empathy or just acknowledgement. 2/2
the other side of this that kind of sucks for female friendships is that it is ALL about feelings sometimes.. to be point where like.. where are my activities girlies? I wanna do stuff, go places, talk about movies and art and shit that has nothing to do with relationships pls pls pls
As a CIS straight man, I absolutely get this. I honestly think this is ALSO a huge part why a lot of Gen Z men think that Andrew Tate and Jordan B Peterson are such great role models. Because the only emotion men are allowed to express outward is anger and rage, and it's so... Dehumanizing to all.
As a queer enby who stills values some concept of masculinity for myself somewhat (still trying to unpack that), that's where I feel I catch the most strays to daring to exist in the world in a male body when I'm just a chill, quiet shy autistic dude who just wants to vibe.
I hate it. It puts me in a fucking box that causes a feedback loop. CIS men are only allowed to show the most antisocial and toxic of emotions, but the fact we mock others for having emotional divergence from that makes me even angrier and bitter..er?
The men are miserable and lonely and that sort of darkness causes a vacuum in their relationships. They're out of practice and too broken to fix themselves.
Hmm. Did anyone consider the reason Brian called off his engagement was shared in confidence and was none of her gd business and the guy was protecting Brian from the fact that she’s a narcissist who was going to post the conversation without Brian or his permission?
There is HEAVY social pressure on men to never talk about their feelings. It’s seen as weak.
Sometimes women demand that their male partners open up. But when they do, and all the feelings come out, that’s now considered a burden? This is a no-win scenario for men.
I often have this conversation with my husband. Women put their feelings on the line daily. We risk being rejected, dismissed, misunderstood, ignored, and yet we still rise to the emotional occasion. It's the price of communication. Everyone has to pay for admission. It's human.
So when men say they don't share their feelings because they'll be "weaponized," "misunderstood," "ridiculed," or "judged," look at the women around you. We share the same fears, but it doesn't stop us from doing the emotional work.
rage bait is content shared for the sole purpose of upsetting people. i hope my post didn't upset you but if it did i hope you can investigate why that is bc i actually agree w your assessment about how men are socialized but maybe you were too upset to finish the video? https://bsky.app/profile/chescaleigh.bsky.social/post/3lok72rjphk2b
I mean the cheems pfp is a good indication of bad faith in general in my experience but I hope they learn something from how kind you're being in even replying to this.
i try to do this too, be patient and understanding, bc a lot of the time when people get unusually angry or lash out it's because they're dealing with something difficult themselves
Rage bait can take the form of saying something intentionally inflammatory about half the population to drive traffic to your friend's tiktok account and Harper's article.
i dunno, man, it kind of seems like you’re just mad that you feel mad. feeling mad in reaction to what someone said is not the same is being rage-baited.
you might want to figure out why you’re the only man in the comments that is offended by OP’s post.
Just because you got upset doesn't mean it was intended to upset you. This is a very sensitive topic. Our culture frames Manhood as being opposed to vulnerability, sensitivity, and other things because it generally casts Men as being aggressive and dominant, instead. Having this pointed out feels
like a criticism of the individuals in the Man caste but it doesn't have to be. You're free to disregard the attempt to define Manhood so rigidly and fight back against those who would force you to live that way. It won't be easy, and you might have to find new social circles, but it's possible.
It’s fairly evident that men who claim that women don’t want to hear about their problems are men who just go around unloading their anger onto women instead of going to therapy.
I’m guessing the women who told him to stop did so b/c he was being scary & abusive about it.
Or just exhausting the emotional resources of one person. Therapists can do this work because they have a professional separation. Wives and girlfriends don’t have that. Talk to your partner, but like, also see a therapist if you need to!
Dude, you are demonstrating the message being presented. Patriarchy has told us men not to be open or vulnerable because it's a burden, feminine, and weak. When in reality it's uplifting, inclusive, and strengthening. In your feelings you have unearthed your struggles. Talk to someone.
There is social pressure, yes, but it's not universal and there's a very good chance you're going to do better rejecting it than you think (or if not you really need new friends).
What's not cool is blaming OP for "toxic ragebait" when all she did was tell the truth.
Because she was in fact rage-baiting. When you insult half the population by saying they have no friends and burden women, whether its true or not, and then use the resulting ire to funnel engagement to your friend's TikTok and Harper's article, that's textbook rage-baiting.
Perhaps instead of going off on this embarrassing "not all men" bullshit like it's 2014, you'd do better to listen to what she's saying and think about how you can do better, whether by being there for your friends or paying more attention to what you dump on the women in your life.
If you can't talk about your feelings with people, they're acquaintances, not friends. And they'll never be friends you can open up to if you're afraid you'll look weak.
Drop your fear of looking weak and you drop the thing that actually *makes* you weak.
If you try to "open up" and you end up letting your trauma flood out...you need a therapist. Or a pastor. Someone trained not only to shoulder this, but to let it go.
Therapists are trained for this, and they still need therapists to help them deal with their clients' trauma. And still burn out.
tell me you don’t know the difference between “talking about with a partner” and “dumping on the only person you use to try and fulfill all your needs” without telling me etc etc
this is absolutely 1. not workable and 2. your fault and responsibility
imagine going to therapy and understanding it's okay to be vulnerable. growing up is realizing that your friends who say to be a man are bad friends. and like there are tons of role models and podcasts that talk Bout feelings
How about this... be the change you wish to see in the world? Go to a therapist, tell your male friends and kids that being a man is also about getting your emotional house in order. Stop relying on women to fix your problems. I promise you'll feel better.
If a man/woman doesn't want to open up all the time, or...ever, cool. My thing is, don't complain, whine, or ask me where everything is, how to do things, or what's for dinner, because I'm not here to be your convenience. Some sharing is healthy, and then there is too much - balance.
Please stop telling men to go to therapy. What makes you think the Patriarchy operates differently in therapy? We actually get far better results getting Tarot card readings from witches.
I blame dating apps convenience of scrolling through mindlessly like if people are a catalog of products you can and cannot have.
The day dating apps are banned, that will be the day people will go out and seek one another and develop meaningful relationships/friendships. Convenience is the enemy
Are they attacked for beings mens spaces, or are they treated with a level of apprehension due to the fact that there's a historic precedent for male gatherings to be about how to uplift men while keeping non men down and blaming men's problems on the latter?
Besides, don't men do whatever they want and disregard other people's opinions anyway? Why would big strong men let people stop them from forming male social groups?
It was still inappropriate shit that I had moved far past as I traveled and grew. Racist,misogynistic,and bigoty songs. When going out with friends, there should never have to be a pre-outing reminder of the code of silence to make cheating on their wives easier. Just out grew all of it.
Yeah I don’t think a lot of women understand they really DON’T want guy friends helping their husbands process stuff, it’s not gonna go as well as they think lol the answers and advice he gets are not going to be mature or pro her. Be happy he’s coming to you, it shows trust, respect, and priority.
Okay but what about trying to make some friends outside the marriage so you have the ability to go off and be independent people and then come back and share?
I appreciate a man who can recognize and step away from bad guys but you can make ✨new friends.✨ Join a book club or a Star Trek group.
My wife goes out and hangs with her friends. I am fully independent, I simply choose to do things without many people. Being disabled plays a role as well. I regularly had to cancel plans... find it much easier not to bother making them in the first place.
Comments
Like when a cop pulled over a girl for speeding, and the first words she said: DO you know who my daddy is?
The cop: Didn't your mommy ever tell you ?
... confusion runs amok ... phq pronouns
New Rule:
You only get to be a “tough guy” when you’ve earned it with a convincing traumatic backstory, viz: You’re Bruce Wayne, Matthew Murdock, Francis Castiglione . . .
It helps if you’re constantly introspective about your condition and are trying to get out of the lifestyle.
I’ve barely seen or talked to him in a couple of years.
All three of us now have to work this out and it’s a major part of the dynamic.
Right?
Men and women aren’t that different and there’s certainly no clear, scientific mold on how we should act. It’s cultural enforcement by choice.
Men express plenty of feelings and desires to each other, but my (cont)
Did you or your friend consider how this affects female friendships? So my husband of 21 years is the bottle it up type. I am an oversharer. I realized he will never be my regular chat partner. So of course I need separate friends
Is this why women have said it’s hard to find friends they could connect, grow, and have fun with?
Pretty sure loving a god that thinks the disabled are dirty, women are lesser, slavery is okay, and genocide is justifiable, won’t help us.
She did not give up, even when Christ seemed distant.
She accepted her position, but still dared to ask for mercy.
Asking instead "what does it mean to be a good human being" eliminates that a difference between men & women is a given; which is the entire issue that men have with emotions
Men are bemoaning the result of a game they designed that has hampered their humanity
Notice how men now care bc they are suffering due to women no longer being willing to be their emotional pack mule
That’s part of why she’s my ex-wife.
Glad she's your ex
However, how many support it? Or how many do nothing to change it? How many enjoy the benefits of it but then complain it doesn't serve them 100%? How many want others to fix it for them? (women)
And how many stand by while it hurts others?
I'm going under and this time I fear there's no one to save me
This all or nothing really got a way of driving me crazy
I need somebody to heal
Somebody to know
Somebody to have
Somebody to hold…
Full lyrics in pic:
That is not at all what this clip is about. What emotional weight is this woman bearing? Besides toxic curiosity?
Give me a break.
The idea that a partner or spouse is there for you has expanded into 'you are the dart board', or worse.
I had 7 brothers, 4 sons, and one husband, so I have some personal experience that aligns with your point.
Stoicism was not only popular for many generations, it was a requirement for survival for many societies.
We live in a country where feelings are facts.
Managing ones feelings used to be the goal.
https://theraphaelremedy.com/men-identity-and-friendships/
Just anecdotal of course, but my experience over 3 generations- my dad, me, and my son- shows tremendous evolution in emotional intelligence and openness. At the same time, the assumption that all woman are perfect in this dimension is farcical.
The point of the article in the OP is that this is an issue that men need to spearhead and yet women are getting the brunt of it.
It sounds to me like you’re actually buying into the whole patriarchal bullshit on some level and then expect a miracle.
If you’re better at something you DO bear a responsibility to at least help the person reflect.
.
Is it possible he is saying “I don’t know” to her because he DOES know & it will cause a problem with his partner? That he’s avoiding conflict? That’s obvs not good either but it means he might have a good relationship with his friend but not his wife?
I know men like that. I also know men who would press for more info or be emotionally supportive. But yes. Not enough. I’m thankful I have some great, close man-friendships and have always been able to create them. Not many but you don’t need many
Either it’s bad acting or he’s expressing being uncomfortable there.
On a related note. How many couples pull out their cameras to film and publish private conversations like this. I guarantee you it won’t help
men open up. Not in the slightest
There’s obviously much that we don’t know so speculation is not a great idea.
However….
Men need to do better with this, particularly men under 30.
That is why I don't get that some (often women) get so terribly irritated when someone (often men) point out the issues?problems/disadvantages that men have in patriarchical societies.
I was not at all thinking about relationships in that context. Just thinking general...
Then in debates online, often about topics related to feminism or equality.
And then also in personal conversations I have had.
And I agree, I suspect that some feel that it diminishes the "suffering" of "minorities" if men can also "suffer".
"It takes a mighty fine man to be better than no man at all."
Read it again.
And a lot of men.
He failed humanity as a whole.
You’re transparently an ahole with that “females” label you’re choosing.
In addition you have completely misrepresented the post, the article, and nearly half of humanity.
Good luck with that.
It isn’t.
It's not working, in your particular case because you're both a misogynist and thicker than a specially imbecilic brick.
Try to keep up.
Everyone neesd to branch out and get a little support from their entire community of friends and family.
You *gotta* have more than one person in your life that you can talk to about things.
I mean, who goes and plays golf and doesn't mention an engagement called off while or before planning the outing?! Maybe they were more of acquaintances cause a lot doesn't add up
But it’s frustrating
BEEN PIMPING/RAPING'SOdoMITE HOMELESS/"SHELTER'SKELTER'S" N TEEN MALE'S/FEMALE'S N PIMP/RAPE OWNOWNED SEPARATOR'S FROM
If your male partner wants to spend all their time with you, and complains when you go out with friends, then that's a problem.
But if they enjoy their alone time, don't require you to be their therapist, and don't impinge on your social life, then its OK.
(Even pretty ones, & esp don't give em kids!)
But there's no way to know how tainted the pool is🤔
The assumption we're all Toxic, & withdrawing from engaging, sounds no more helpful than men stunting their own emotions, tho.
My wife *is* my best friend💕
Most of our other friends have moved or died
(& we're not THAT old)
But we love them All dearly.
Anybody that's had kids & has home/work responsibilities knows it's not always easy cultivating new meaningful friendships!
I do support the premise here.
U.S. male culture is a path to 🤪😡😭
Toxic masculinity doesn’t mean all masculinity is bad or that being a man is inherently negative. The term is used to describe certain cultural norms and behaviors that can be harmful-to men themselves, as well as to others. Stop using it as an attack on men.
Talk about victim blaming!
Believe it or not, dear, some things are actually NOT about you. You should be responding to people's pain with COMPASSION, not judgment
Why, for instance, do men and women get in a relationship and suddenly feel like they have to build a fort instead of supporting prior relationships? Is all that necessary?
My husband and his bestie call each other daily.
Men do not cry together.
Learning how to navigate your feelings is a part of growing up.
Women can also have no friends - or effectively none, having nothing but superficial, self-obsessed females with whom to express themselves.
Painting with a broad brush is unhelpful.
To then make a video about not wanting to be a mans therapist is all you.
I don't know if it makes me feel better or worse to know that it's so many other woman, but at least I feel seen.
The OP brought up men not having friends. My husband has no friends. I understand but need to remind myself of why when he’s driving me crazy. Thus, attitude adjustment.
Or maybe they are not comfortable to share the details to you. To break the trust their friend shoved to them.
But he does not want to tell his wife anything about it, because it is none of her businesses. She has no part here.
If you are thinking of getting married
or living together, do yourselves a favor
and go to therapy first.
Don't wait until all the baggage piles up
and you don't know what to do!
Kindness and empathy is my rebellion, my SPITE
Sometimes women demand that their male partners open up. But when they do, and all the feelings come out, that’s now considered a burden? This is a no-win scenario for men.
Your tweet is toxic ragebait.
Your lack of communication is hurting YOU.
you might want to figure out why you’re the only man in the comments that is offended by OP’s post.
You might want to consider watching the videos and reading the articles you're criticizing in the future.
there’s some toxic raging going on here, for sure
I’m guessing the women who told him to stop did so b/c he was being scary & abusive about it.
https://bsky.app/profile/chescaleigh.bsky.social/post/3lok76efqbk2c
What's not cool is blaming OP for "toxic ragebait" when all she did was tell the truth.
"That is manipulative."
Yep, checks out. No blameshifting aggressiveness there.
Drop your fear of looking weak and you drop the thing that actually *makes* you weak.
Therapists are trained for this, and they still need therapists to help them deal with their clients' trauma. And still burn out.
It sucks to be caught in a whorl of unprocessed trauma and unresolved grief. Many of us are.
But to "open up" means lower your walls uniformly (and maybe a little more with the one person), not keep them at 100% with everyone but your partner.
this is absolutely 1. not workable and 2. your fault and responsibility
If the only place you feel safe to open up is with a single person, you are a burden on that person.
The day dating apps are banned, that will be the day people will go out and seek one another and develop meaningful relationships/friendships. Convenience is the enemy
I appreciate a man who can recognize and step away from bad guys but you can make ✨new friends.✨ Join a book club or a Star Trek group.