The far left part of the left is irritating because they refuse to coalition build. I'm far left, but I understand how to moderate my long term goals to mitigate short term losses.
The fact that "liberal" is the new pejorative of coffee communists is more telling than the dunking you're getting
You're no leftist, man. You're a liberal. If you truly believe there's nothing wrong with being a liberal and that it shouldn't be used as a pejorative then at least own it. Don't kid us or yourself that you're a leftist lol
I get what you’re saying, but when far leftists attempt to speak out and suggest any policy change liberals deride it saying that, no matter your age, “you’re too young” to understand politics and that the “big tent” isn’t for you.
As a former raging leftist (came of age in Occupy Wall Street), there's a valid criticism in youthful zeal vs. wisdom.
The issue is that many leftists aren't willing to compromise or even see the world as a coalition. Their idealism actually hinders progress towards their (well, OUR) goals.
Gaza is the perfect example of this. The desire to have an absolutely free Palestine shrouds their ability to understand not only how Palestine itself has hindered this effort over the years, but also how protest voting has made the situation far worse than simply voting for Kamala.
Allowing Trump to win has abled him to dismantle a variety of leftist policy wins, such as DEI. I think that's a good front where leftists don't even recognize that they won that cultural battle, and should accept they also own-goaled themselves by feeling so irritated when est. Dems push back
What’s worse than total extermination? This is not a perfect example. It’s good to be principled against genocide. The past administration showed no signs of stopping mass slaughter with our weapons and our bombs. Sick. Utterly sick.
So...what was the compromise offered? What adjustments to her positions was Kamala willing to make? Compromise generally involves adjustments from both parties.
Considering it seems the primary one being talked about and was a major one in the campaign, Gaza.
As 'Repeatedly blocking UN resolutions' and 'condemning the court' wasn't great for even the 'People trying to do things the international rule of law' way.
Why wouldn't it be a pejorative? Liberalism is the political expression of capitalism. It's the class ideology of the bourgeosie. For most of the history of capitalism, liberals were the main antagonists of the working-class socialist/communist left.
The extremes refuse to build coalitions and they lose. Ours is a coalition around the tent-pole issue of pro-immigration. That means left and right leaning Liberals may have vastly different views on other issues and that is okay. The goal is a 'Star Trek future' and we can get it done together.
Shhh, you'll be okay... At the very least we can also work together to get anti-cronyism policies in place and be friendly to a multi-party system. Big tent parties don't exist anymore with coalitions. There's Fascist Party and Status Quo Party and that is not the vibe. It's all data-based...
Neither! We are an opposition party that seeks major reforms. We care about freedom and choices, the Constitution, justice reform, ending oligarchy/cronyism, and making it easier for regular Americans to run for office. Market innovation w/o corporate handouts. We absolutely oppose fascism.
If your tent pole was immigration, why did Biden deport more people than trump in his last term? Have you considered that you're a group of ineffectual fucking losers? Because you are.
Biden deported more people out of our country across a border because people couldn't cross a border? Wouldn't that be an argument why he would have less?
Even if every single leftist, socialist, and communist in the US voted for Harris, she still would have lost.
Democrats have been hemorrhaging support from far more people than just the left, for the reasons that the left has been highlighting for years. And liberals refused to listen.
It's wild we're a couple of months out from the 2024 presidential election, where Harris chose to campaign with Liz Cheney and offer the left absolutely nothing, to the point of supporting genocide over winning an election and liberals are still claiming the left won't coalition build.
Nothing, not a single thing, about the ideals you hold, the way you (claim to) act on them, the things you argue about, none of it is leftist. It's barely center left. You're a liberal, in every sense, and you wear the badge of a leftist so you can pretend you're defending liberals and not yourself
Even taking out the argument about Gaza, does the center/liberal faction ever have to coalition build with the left? It seems like it's always the left that has to make concessions on their goals.
And yeah it becomes "reform and do it incremental" until eventually you don't have any mainstream politicians even advocating for the end result we want - the incremental change just becomes a blockade
I love Massachusetts. We're the first state that outlawed slavery. First state that introduced gay marriage. First state with a form of universal healthcare.
And we're pretty center-left. We're also the richest, per capita, state in the union. We have a blueprint!!!! But no one listens.
The UN doesn't think it's a genocide. If it did, the UN would have a responsibility to get involved militarily per their charter. This would require a war with Israel.
But you fail to present any framework to establish not only a short term but a lasting peace.
I'm still not understanding why you think your idealized goals aren't shared by me. I want universal healthcare, a free Gaza, antitrust against monopolies, abortion rights, etc.
I'm just willing to concede to achieve short term gains so we wouldn't have long term losses.
The only difference is that you lie to yourself about what Democrats in power do and promise to continue to do, so you can feel morally superior while continuing to vote for them no matter what they do and demanding nothing else. Blue Uber Alles!
Trump said he wanted Israel to "Finish the job." He's the one who moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, tacitly acknowledging that as Israel's capital. He's the one who proposed a two state solution and never invited any Palestinian to negotiate the plan.
Do you agree that if the International Criminal Court prosecuted Joe Biden for war crimes and genocide that he was sufficiently part of the cabal of people implementing policy that making the case would be easy?
People with actual academic and professional qualifications in the field the world over agree it is, so lemme just stop you right there and tell you to chug piss, you piece of shit
I'm feeling generous today, so I won't block you yet. I agree with you that many authorities claim it's a genocide. I don't find their concern unfounded. Many others disagree.
The problem is simply screaming genocide over and over won't stop Israel. And defunding Israel won't give Gaza statehood.
The problem is to create an actual plan to achieve mutual peace and prosperity for both Palestinians and Israel. Biden had been actively working towards a peace deal, with sometimes Netanyahu rebuffed, but, more often than not, Hamas myopically torpedoed.
You would have denied the holocaust to the sallow face of a survivor, and told them they would have had a better chance if they'd just voted harder to stop hitler
I understand that it gives you comfort to express your moral superiority over others.
But I hate to break it to you that almost everyone wants peace in this conflict. Question is how to achieve it, which makes me assume that you want a war with Israel to stop what's going on. I don't want more war
pecking order. immigrants (dark skinned preffered), local/federal officals who ae not maga, media (social and otherwise), freedom of speech, technology, and religion which can come at or before any of the https://others.money is a given. money buys power. money is not https://power.it is a tool.that is our target.
Might tweak it to: First they came for the Palestinians and the Latin American immigrants and the liberals said, "Ha, you get what you vote for." Then they came for the queer people and the liberals said, "you could have just acted normal" then they came for the communists
And should add, then they came for the Indigenous people and the liberals said, "First I want to acknowledge that we are on– oh you were still here? Awkward. Don't worry we'll do permaculture it'll be great!"
Then they came for the homeless people and the liberals said, "Maybe this isn't so bad, I hated them too. So anyway like I was saying my Uncle Pat got laid off and then we just sort of lost contact with him, he was so annoying and needy though."
my post doesn't require a sophisticated definition of leftism, but even there - leftists support a violent revolution against liberalism. we are the people you want against the wall.
regardless, i have seen enough leftist american posting to know what individual american leftists want.
Well my only critique is that seems like an aggressively broad brush. Especially since there are schools of thought like "anarchopacifism" and "democratic socialism" that are much farther left than american liberalism.
But if you'd rather talk about edge cases and extremes, we can do that I guess.
Yeah, most liberals are unknowingly far more leftist than they realize. They want decommodified healthcare, better funded social programs, harsher market regulation, higher taxes on the rich, free higher education, better worker protections, etc.
They only barely support capitalism because it's just too deeply ingrained into us by propaganda, and because there are no options to vote further left. They're afraid of literal nazis getting into power and don't want to waste their vote. Which is fair, same, tbh. But here we are.
This is sad... we may disagree with communists, but we defend your right to exist and express yourself freely! We even support your right to start your own commune and live life how you want to in America. As long as you are being peaceful, we mind our own business.
They're nihilists, which is sad, but they're ridiculous people. They're cosplaying as serious thinkers but can't pull it off because, like the hard right, they're ideologues incapable of independent thought.
You're never getting into power again. It's been proved over and over - a centre left coalition is needed to take power from the right, you guys literally don't have the numbers. Good luck when you ask us back to the table 👍
No, the liberals said: "We need to unite to stop these assholes" and the communists said: "Fuck you, I'm not doing anything together with you", and then they were both crushed.
I've read it. And I know the point of it is that we have to unite against the fascists from the very start, otherwise we will be divided and conquered.
I don't use Google.
I already know how the poem goes, and what it's message is. It's about how we must unite against the fascists. You're not helping with that.
The genocide of the Palestinians has been ongoing from the Nakba and the theft of Palestine by Zionist settler colonials but I specifically stated that the levelling pf Gaza occurred under Biden, which it did.
I'm sorry, did you imagine truth was localised? Like it might be true in America but not anywhere else?
Hate to let you into the secret but in the modern world, we get news from all over the world. That's what globalisation gives us. We know all your dirty secrets.
I'm more concerned about my own country. Period. Kamala was never going to be a president in the middle east so I'm really not sure what you expected her or Biden to do. The war in Gaza is hundreds of years old. Grow up
Well, that’s just blatant ignorance. This conflict is actually very recent, mid 20th century. Not “hundreds of years”. Oh! And here’s an idea, the Democrats could have STOPPED GIVING ISRAEL BOMBS.
Are you aware that Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived in relative peace there for 400 years before the British Mandate and the partitioning? Calling it “updated crusades” is a bit silly. Not many conflicts have 400 year interludes.
Are you trying to say that the office of the President of the United States has no leverage to influece Israel's government? Did you fall asleep and miss the last 75 years of US foreign policy? You think Israel could carry out this genocide without Biden keeping the weapons supply open? Laughable.
Yeah, there are very few differences other than it's allegedly updated for the modern global economy. Something which Keynesian economics has been criticized for as "not competitive on the global market". Hence, the rise of Neoliberalism and the global capitalism we see today.
In Germany? No. The German Communist Party (KPD)never collaborated with the Nazis (NSDAP).
The USSR, after failing to get the British and French to join an anti Nazi alliance, was essentially forced into making deals with the only other pariah state. But always with an eye for an eventual war.
I mean at least the 30's liberal Germans were getting physical kicking from the communists when they tried to take them on before they fed them to the wolves. You're just getting your fee fees hurt by some words.
I'm talking about Tankies making excuses for Russias genocide of the Ukrainian people. Communists are great, but those communists start making excuses for naked authoritarianism, they get their fun bits ground up in the garbage disposal because they are fascist fucks.
The crime bill of ‘94, Obama’s Too Big To Fail bank and automaker bailouts, expansion of Patriot Act Powers under Obama, Biden’s “nothing will fundamentally change” quote - democratic legislation has been aimed primarily at maintaining institutions, a fundamentally conservative position.
Weapons sales to Israel, the war on terror, the war on drugs, refusal to expand the Supreme Court, unwilling to challenge Marbury - all policies and positions which support the status quo.
Even incremental progressive policies are pushed so far to the center they still uphold status quo - DREAMers act and Obamacare being examples of this, but they have a glimmer of progressivism in them so you cum guzzling dipshits never notice you’ve been sold what we had ten years before
First they came for immigrants, women, gays, minorities, liberals, disloyal conservatives, Greenland, Panama, Canada, Colombia, Ukraine, environmental protections, the WHO & the Arabs of Gaza because so-called communists were too self-absorbed to cast a practical vote against them.
The liberals were already busy coming for the Palestinian population of Gaza, dipshit. Your party was already doing the deed and instead of standing up and with those people you hurled them into the fucking meat grinder to protect your own interests.
Lmao - suuuuurreee you’ve donated arms and armor. I’ll ask my trans child about whether a gun and armor has restored their civil rights. Because using a gun in school will definitely do that. Oh wait, no they’ll end up dead just like Nex. You are nothing but a cosplayer.
So you haven't done fucking anything, but you'll weakly attempt to condemn the ways that I've materially helped those that requested it. Why don't you tell the trans people that want to arm themselves for self defense that it's useless?
Me?
1) I voted in a serious attempt to keep Trump/Musk out of office.
2) I didn't fall for antisemitic propaganda aimed at suppressing that vote.
3) I didn't get suckered into donating to fascist billionaires in Qatar.
So you literally voted for a genocide and nothing the fuck else. And now you're sobbing online because others refused to back people that were already coming for minorities.
Where I live the party that has termed themselves 'Liberal' is the mob of RWNJs, our local Tory party. In coalition with a National Party (our old Country Party, the defenders of the rural hicks) they are now known as the LNP - Lying Nasty Party.
Marginalized groups tend to have more favorable views of collectivism. Collectivism and anti-capitalism are the primary targets. Fascists have been telling us this was their plan for decades. Why haven’t you been listening?
Or even a bigger target than “liberals”…?
Who’s the last communist politician MAGA tried to imprison, or whose family they tried to imprison, or whose husband got attacked in his home?
when was the last fascist politician/supporter maga has tried to imprison, etc.?they even let some go! anyone who thinks the things that maga has done is not only illegal but anti-american have their heads in the sand. try not committing crimes then those things won't happen. people gloss over that.
What liberals do you know?
I have never heard any liberals say this nonsense.
Communism is nonsense, but liberals believe in a Democracy, and even the voice of a fool ought to be heard.
The idea being that education and sanity will prevail.
Don’t let them get to you. Lefties are indistinguishable from Redhats. The only goal they have is to defeat democrats at the cost of all else. The leftists fell for the grift and are all in for GOP control.
Nothing you said make any sense.
My advice to you would be, stop thinking in left and right. NO ONE belong in a box, and when it comes down to it, we all agree more than we disagree.
Politics is ruining the society by claiming the enemy is your neighbor, friend and family.
Not sure that matters. There will always be class differences in our life time. No idea what kind of future our children might create, but I doubt classes can be removed from society. Even remote tribes has class difference.
As for States, I believe in borders, but America is one country.
Doesn't that depends on whic state you are in?
I knwo that not one state in America is doing well compared to the world. Asian and Europe to be more specific.
We are on the brink of a revolution in education, and about time. Now with Ai, we will soon see a whole new world.
I imagine some are. Taking the generalization, then they are woefully uneducated. Frightening so actually.
They need to change their education system. Did you know the school system in America was build to make workers and not thinkers?
I'm harder on liberals than conservatives because they're the ones sitting on resources - hard and soft - that are better appropriated to people actually putting up a fight. All that money and media attention the DNC is sitting on while they collaborate with Trump
No lie, I wish I could take his entire follower list and feed it into a block machine. I have no interest in the opinions or thoughts of anyone who thinks that guy is acceptable at all.
They'll love us when they need us, which will happen when they realize that a revolution is inevitable. Because they aren't fighters. Right? RiGHT? Fuck.
Violence is a choice. I have been painting rocks. I requested an itemized bill from my local medical hobby shop. I paid my bills in full with the rocks I painted because I learned they scan every piece of mail at the USPS. I am sure that tech will fail soon. 😏 https://youtu.be/sqSA-SY5Hro
You can't make an incendiary statement like that w/o defining 'communists' and 'liberals.' But then it would lose its impact as a pithy rant against the status quo.
You're kidding. 'Liberal' in particular is misused by people who shorten neoliberal to just liberal. 'Communism' can either refer to the economic model or a specific implementation of socialism. Or it could be simply the emotional outburst of those during the red scare fifties.
The definitions for communism and liberalism haven't changed in a very long time. There is no excuse. Lazy talkers who don't do their due diligence before forming an opinion are tripping over themselves with excuses.
*and by "they" we of course mean the liberals and their freikorps goons. Probably while making a speech about how the alligators will never eat THEIR face.
It was thanks to the Stalinist goons of the KPD that Hitler came to power. How about we not promote one violent, totalitarian ideology as the cure for another?
“How about we not promote one violent, totalitarian ideology as the cure for another?” is a really funny thing to say when im talking about Freddy Ebert arming the incipient fascist movement in 1919 to put down the communists, I hope you get that
You’d have preferred that Germany follow the bloodstained path that Russia was then treading? Communism and fascism were two sides of the same totalitarian coin, and Communism had a vastly higher body count until at least 1943 or so.
Darn, it's almost like it did stick in some countries and in others was the victim of capitalist intervention. There's nothing dead about it, as evidenced by its continued existence in every nation and being the leading ideology of some countries.
It took a lot of tries for things like flight to happen too.
Capitalism has no answer for automation. When millions of truck drivers are out of work because of self-driving vehicles, if the status quo is still in place, what do you think happens?
I'm not arguing against change, and anyone with a lick of sense can see the failures of capitalism. But communism clearly isn't the answer. Democratic socialism has better outcomes.
Where are these “communists” again? Randos online? The right enjoys your company, you make their attack on libs easy peasy. You know libs are still called communists because they elevate your types to create a non existent boogeyman? Then you team up online to complain about libs 24/7?
We do need to agree and then argue. If you look at the plight of right wing people, and liberals, they do win but they never enjoy it because they don't have any ideas left by the time they are done.
Yeah it's hard to develop class consciousness when the ruling class has done such an excellent job of dividing us ideologically while portraying themselves to be incompetent.
Hard to convince liberals that Dem politicians are grifters astroturfing for fascism.
Comments
The fact that "liberal" is the new pejorative of coffee communists is more telling than the dunking you're getting
that's not moderating
that's running to the right
The issue is that many leftists aren't willing to compromise or even see the world as a coalition. Their idealism actually hinders progress towards their (well, OUR) goals.
But liberals are willing to criticise themselves on these fronts. This isn't something the far left is willing to do: look in the mirror and reflect.
As 'Repeatedly blocking UN resolutions' and 'condemning the court' wasn't great for even the 'People trying to do things the international rule of law' way.
Educate yourself.
Democrats have been hemorrhaging support from far more people than just the left, for the reasons that the left has been highlighting for years. And liberals refused to listen.
We have a contingent of the far left (which I always vote for, except national), but we're center-left.
We just started talking about introducing a single payer system for our state.
And we're pretty center-left. We're also the richest, per capita, state in the union. We have a blueprint!!!! But no one listens.
Difference is at least Palestinians would have had a fighting chance and a possibility that Kamala would have a change of heart.
Whereas Trump actively wants Israel to take that land and could care less about Gazans.
Who thinks it;s a genocide?
The UN
Human right watch
Amnesty international
BTtselem
The ICC
The ICj
Numerous genocide scholars.
Who thinks it isn't?
Some rando on twit.. er Bluesky
Who to believe?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/12/6/who-accuses-israel-of-committing-genocide-in-gaza
But you fail to present any framework to establish not only a short term but a lasting peace.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/anatomy-of-a-genocide-report-of-the-special-rapporteur-on-the-situation-of-human-rights-in-the-palestinian-territory-occupied-since-1967-to-human-rights-council-advance-unedited-version-a-hrc-55/
In other words, your refusal to build a coalition with the lesser evil means you actually want a complete a total genocide.
‘Why won’t you coalition build with us?”
look inside
I'm just willing to concede to achieve short term gains so we wouldn't have long term losses.
Left prefers moral purity.
How many facts do you need?
respectfully, what makes you believe this?
we have been burning and starving children to death under Biden, and Harris had promised more of the same.
#NotToBeRude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uVq-XSg-6M
The problem is simply screaming genocide over and over won't stop Israel. And defunding Israel won't give Gaza statehood.
But I hate to break it to you that almost everyone wants peace in this conflict. Question is how to achieve it, which makes me assume that you want a war with Israel to stop what's going on. I don't want more war
I'm saying you need to compromise to ensure the least of evils, at modicum, occurs to people in need if that's the only option.
Because that IS the only option. Trump emboldens Israel. That's on you.
Okay, hold still
Would you care to define it so I know what your reference point is?
regardless, i have seen enough leftist american posting to know what individual american leftists want.
But if you'd rather talk about edge cases and extremes, we can do that I guess.
https://academic.oup.com/book/40603
I think the communists are coming for us !
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/russia-navalny-billionaires-west-democracy-repression
They're nihilists, which is sad, but they're ridiculous people. They're cosplaying as serious thinkers but can't pull it off because, like the hard right, they're ideologues incapable of independent thought.
I already know how the poem goes, and what it's message is. It's about how we must unite against the fascists. You're not helping with that.
We told you that this was coming. That Trump would level Gaza before anything else. What a shock you're still blaming liberals.
Hate to let you into the secret but in the modern world, we get news from all over the world. That's what globalisation gives us. We know all your dirty secrets.
Are liberals still playing the “vote for us despite us never compromising with the Left and always comprising with the right wing!” game?
How many times do you want to lose?
Turn your brain on.
Are you aware that Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived in relative peace there for 400 years before the British Mandate and the partitioning? Calling it “updated crusades” is a bit silly. Not many conflicts have 400 year interludes.
DemSoc is 100% anticapitalist. Capitalism cannot be allowed to continue, the rich cannot be allowed to exist.
SocDem is capitalism with speedbumps on the road to plutocracy.
😂
🤣
Literally lol
There is a long history of the word fascist being used as a slur for anyone who speaks out against authoritarian left-wing regimes.
The SD collaborated with the right to destroy the Left, then acted shocked when the right eventually ate them alive.
Sound familiar?
The USSR, after failing to get the British and French to join an anti Nazi alliance, was essentially forced into making deals with the only other pariah state. But always with an eye for an eventual war.
Or are you just calling anyone who’s not a socialist a conservative?
1) I voted in a serious attempt to keep Trump/Musk out of office.
2) I didn't fall for antisemitic propaganda aimed at suppressing that vote.
3) I didn't get suckered into donating to fascist billionaires in Qatar.
Right wing propaganda has set the terms and labels, and the vast majority of the country right or, slightly less right just use it as given.
Anything not Republican is interchangeably called Liberal, communist, or socialist.
Who’s the last communist politician MAGA tried to imprison, or whose family they tried to imprison, or whose husband got attacked in his home?
Move left if you're tired of getting assaulted. It's pretty simple.
Here, this can help:
https://youtu.be/XZZyjhRG5vs?si=uwuY4zgXQFBfaGhX
I have never heard any liberals say this nonsense.
Communism is nonsense, but liberals believe in a Democracy, and even the voice of a fool ought to be heard.
The idea being that education and sanity will prevail.
#6'Elon
My advice to you would be, stop thinking in left and right. NO ONE belong in a box, and when it comes down to it, we all agree more than we disagree.
Politics is ruining the society by claiming the enemy is your neighbor, friend and family.
#6'Elon
As for States, I believe in borders, but America is one country.
#6'Elon
I knwo that not one state in America is doing well compared to the world. Asian and Europe to be more specific.
We are on the brink of a revolution in education, and about time. Now with Ai, we will soon see a whole new world.
#6'Elon
They need to change their education system. Did you know the school system in America was build to make workers and not thinkers?
Blows my mind to think about.
#6'Elon
#6'Elon
#6'Elon
Accurate meme per my experience with Dems/Libs.
https://youtu.be/sqSA-SY5Hro
Alien
Open for your images for commission. Mutual aid favored. 🥰
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V0PWQylV7Ec
So no, I'm not kidding.
*and by "they" we of course mean the liberals and their freikorps goons. Probably while making a speech about how the alligators will never eat THEIR face.
Now what?
Learn some history.
https://bsky.app/profile/elivalley.bsky.social/post/3l7c3noro4x2l
Capitalism has no answer for automation. When millions of truck drivers are out of work because of self-driving vehicles, if the status quo is still in place, what do you think happens?
It's peaceful revolution or guillotines.
And you piece of shit demsocs cheering it
Hard to convince liberals that Dem politicians are grifters astroturfing for fascism.