Vance suggesting that Walz isn’t veteran enough because he didn’t see combat is pretty rich given that Walz served in the military for 24 years and Vance served for 4, and is also a running mate to a draft dodger
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Jesus, I had them tell me that they never got raises when Obama was President. I showed them the YoY increases--pay increases THAT THEY, THEMSELVES, RECEIVED--and they acted like I was speaking in tongues.
Vance was posted to a desk at al-Asad. He never heard a shot fired in anger. Guys like me who would swing by there for repairs and spare part runs called it Chow Asad. No one wore body armor; people went to Green Beans Coffee and ate Dominos pizza
It was a giant airbase, one of the super FOBs that functionally was no different than being in an American town. I wonder if he even saw any Iraqis besides the occasional IA soldier who might have been visiting.
I remember passing by the Green Beans and seeing a trailer where they were selling cars or something? That was weird. They also sold XBoxes and big screen TVs in the PX I think
I think the correct response is to point out the implication about many other veterans, not about Vance's record (h/t @mollieoreilly.bsky.social):
'Yes! Walz can say straight out "You don't think the National Guard is worthy of respect? That's pretty weird, pal" and Vance disintegrates'
Yes! The genius of the "weird" campaign is that it gives people the opportunity to turn away from MAGA and align themselves with the Dems: "Those weirdos don't represent you as well as we do." Walz seems big enough not to take this insult personally, and smart enough to know it's better not to.
The Rs are literally just HANDING the Ds micro-targetted voters with lines like this. I can see the fundraising email now: "JD Vance thinks you weren't a real soldier. Think he won't cut your benefits in the future?"
Morons.
Instead of attacking Vance, use it against him. He dismisses the people who help after a natural disaster. He denigrates all those who sacrifice but don’t get a medal.
Every Marine went through 6 weeks of hell on Parris Island. I take my hat off. I doubt that I ever could have done that, and know I certainly could not today.
When JD Vance attacks another soldier for his service, I'm all for interrogating what Sen. Vance's service consisted of.
it’s wild because the argument also seems to be that because Walz “deserted his unit” because the guard gave him his retirement at the start of 2005 and his unit deployed at the end of the year, when Walz almost certainly put in for retirement in 2004.
also a fun reminder of the bush iraq era where bush kept the war going despite plummeting enlistment numbers by sending national guardsmen - many of whom had signed up on the premise of doing like one weekend a month part time work - on year-long overseas deployments
that sort of shit was so common during iraq. the "support the troops" party was constantly fucking over the soldiers who were actually there for unclear reasons beyond "fuck them"
(especially fun and ironic because the method by which W himself had dodged the vietnam draft was by getting strings pulled to get into the air national guard which at the time had no chance of being sent overseas)
Also, if the goal was avoiding deployment, he would have retired earlier. I was 25 in 2005, and I grew up in a town and an extended family where lots of people paid for college the same way as Walz. They started deploying National Guard units at least a couple of years before he retired.
Lots of senior NCOs in the regular army must have ETSd that year. Are they all deserters? It's just an incredibly stupid argument. I hope it gets the mockery it deserves.
It’s wilder than that—Command Sergeant Major is an administrative rank that supports the battalion (and higher) commander. CSM’s get their pictures on the wall with the chain of command but they don’t actually issue orders or sign paperwork or adjudicate UCMJ (though they are important advisors)
The first sergeant-sergeant major-CSM progression is basically a whole 2nd career beyond the normal enlisted hierarchy. CSMs are generally college educated, often with a master's degree, & usually extremely intense. Their work is mostly personnel/training, plus being the official Grizzled Old Guy.
my dad was a W-3 in the navy, offered a promotion to W-4, decided he didn’t want to move to Okinawa with one kid about to go to college and the other about to start high school, and put in for retirement!
I know multiple guys who hit Lieutenant Colonel and called it because reupping would've meant another five years of shuffling around when they had kids
This happens with police too. My dad was making sufficient money as detective-lieutenant and never bothered trying for captain because he didn’t want to deal with the politics and bureaucracy of that level.
Also, he was a 41 year old with a young daughter at home, trying for a second kid! Taking his retirement instead of *deploying to Iraq* was the unimpeachably responsible choice, for both his family AND HIS UNIT.
Not quite the intrepid warrior story
"For the last nine months of his service, Vance was the media relations officer for the Marine Corps Air Station in Cherry Point, North Carolina, one of the largest military bases on the East Coast."
It’s the old Rovian strategy of “hit them in your own weakness”, just depends how much water the press will carry for them. Even has the same guy running it.
He's been claiming for years he volunteered to ride on a few conveys while he was in Iraq, so he's going to pretend that's his big boy military experience.
Who are you to call Vance a desk jockey, which I find insulting, or praise Watz because he did his time and earned his retirement. I could speak with either one because of my time in the active Marines, a retiree of the Army Reserve, an OIF veteran, etc. That's me. What makes you an expert?
Vance is also literally using the phrase “stolen valor” to describe Walz, who served in the military for 24 years. Dems should use this in messaging: if you served in the military but weren’t literally shot at, Vance thinks you’re a fake veteran and your service is worth nothing
Trump outright attacked Veterans with PTSD. The key is follow up; 2016 lacked it, but Harris/Walz seem to understand you don't sit back and wait for voters to internalize
That creepy hillbilly should accompany me on the next trip to Kherson or Lyman. He can enjoy artillery or glide bombs, and, if lucky by his lunatic standards, get properly wounded or even suitably killed.
Even if HE doesn't, we can. This feels like exactly what you print on the back of the Harris/Walz sign people are handed to wave at rallies. Then whenever W is eviscerating V on something, we all just cheerily wave the B side.
In a debate, Walz could even broaden this out and use it as yet another example of Vance's lack of core convictions. "You're running with a guy who got out of serving and insulted Gold Star families. JD, this is why people wonder who the heck you are if you believe anything you say."
I hate this whole conversation. JD Vance did basically the same level of "active service" as one of my brothers. Who got to spend 4 years in Germany doing absolutely nothing related to his Army specialty & spent most of his tour moving sandbags around base for somewhat arbitrary reasons.
Walz putting 24 years in with the National Guard is just as real as these couch surfing positions in active duty. And the fact that he rose in rank is probably a good indication he was actually doing something useful with his time, even if it was just weekends & a couple of weeks a year.
Vance is POS. I am a vet. I served my country. Wasn’t directly shot at, except for a SCUD that was shot down. Good for you Sgt Tim. Enlisted make the military.
I have actually had the MAGA crowd accuse me of just this. Being a fake combat veteran. I forward deployed with Navy SEALs. I mean I was military intelligence and working a mostly staff job, but I was a front seat to some intense combat. It’s not about getting shot at, it’s about the experience.
A reminder that Tom Cotton deployed overseas with the 101st Airborne, but he never mentions that in campaign literature. The 101st's only action in his home state of Arkansas was in support of Eisenhower's civil rights initiatives. Perhaps he believes Ranger School has better branding with his base.
Well, I served between shooting wars, planning an all-out nuclear exchange and practicing three times a year, but the VA thinks I'm not a "real veteran", so...
Walz served long enough to retire at E-9. That's about as military veteran as it gets.
My family just laid an air force veteran to rest. He was stationed in Germany during Korea. He was proud to have served and I was always grateful that he did. Let Vance come after people like him.
I'm BEGGING the Dems to cut ads with National Guard veterans describing their service in disaster recovery, search and rescue, etc. contrasted with clips of JD calling Walz's service "stolen valor" and closing with the vets asking JD what the hell his problem is.
This is so nuts, my cousin has had a career in the NG and has been sent overseas so many times (Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan) on top of disaster recovery etc. “stolen valor” ?!?! What a dipshit.
The counter here is pretty obvious imo. Vance and Trump think they get to decide who is a veteran, who gets health care, who is black, who gets reproductive freedom, who gets IVF, etc etc.
mind your own god damn business, weirdos. it's weird to say a 24 year veteran isn't a real vet! go away!
Especially considering where it’s coming from. Vance did not see combat, not for one minute. He was basically a correspondent, but not the kind that embeds and has bullets flying all around him.
(Sorry. Not trying to encourage anyone to shoot at him. I’m just remembering that, only a few weeks ago, Frump was a draft dodger who had ALSO never been shot at.)
As an Army brat, I find this so attitude offensive. Oh you want to go shoot bad guys but you don't want any support? You don't want anyone supplying food? Nobody shipping more ammo in? You can't find the bad guys because you have no intel officers? Well fuck you buddy
Tim Walz's military service record is solid and distinguished. By attacking that record, the GOP is, in effect, attacking military service itself. The GOP is that desperate.
Can it though? Vance’s attack seems to be that Walz retired four years *after* he was eligible to do so instead of charging into battle when he was older than Vance is now. It seems to be an odd interpretation of “stolen valor” which I thought was lying about being in actual battle
Vance is bluffing, hoping to bait Walz into commenting and, perhaps, into making a responsive brag that the GOP can then question. Walz is too smart to go there. Also, Vance is hoping a disgruntled vet comes out of the Minnesota National Guard woodwork with negative information about Walz.
As I understand it, Walz deployed several times in response to natural disasters, like floods & tornadoes. The logistics of providing care for people is crucial to any recovery effort. Anybody who's been through a natural disaster knows the value of the National Guard.
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Yeah, it'd be hypocrisy, but the mainstream media will pester Walz because "He should have gone high instead of stooping to that level."
'Yes! Walz can say straight out "You don't think the National Guard is worthy of respect? That's pretty weird, pal" and Vance disintegrates'
Morons.
When JD Vance attacks another soldier for his service, I'm all for interrogating what Sen. Vance's service consisted of.
he was out may 2005
https://www.startribune.com/walzs-24-years-in-national-guard-get-renewed-scrutiny-from-gop-opponent-who-didnt-serve/600216280
his team got alert orders in july 2005
https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/573070/guard-unit-recognized-for-record-deployment/
Dad: Nope.
And they feel helpless. And frustrated.
So they scrape the crusty shit from the bottom of the toilet and use that - which is tiring.
"For the last nine months of his service, Vance was the media relations officer for the Marine Corps Air Station in Cherry Point, North Carolina, one of the largest military bases on the East Coast."
Or when Republicans swift-boated John Kerry so that they could get W. the guy who flew for the Texas Air National Guard?
Fuck these guys.
a Marine POG for 4 years
or
an Army NG Sergeant Major for 24 years
(I’m a civilian who only knows “POG” from “Generation Kill” so I’m genuinely asking as much as anything)
So search and rescue, transport, shelters, medical support, infrastructure.
I don’t think we’ve ever had a literal first responder in the executive branch.
Still a veteran. Vance can kiss my ass.
Walz served long enough to retire at E-9. That's about as military veteran as it gets.
mind your own god damn business, weirdos. it's weird to say a 24 year veteran isn't a real vet! go away!
(Sorry. Not trying to encourage anyone to shoot at him. I’m just remembering that, only a few weeks ago, Frump was a draft dodger who had ALSO never been shot at.)
He was a marine corps WRITER who updated their website.
https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2016/09/j-d-vance-learned-marine-corps
This has the bonus of being 100% true, while still being highly offensive to the MAGA base 👍