Slowly realizing as I watch Return of the King that I haven’t watched this movie in years and apparently forgot vast swaths of it, like how hard Denethor sucks
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Blue Sky, a digital wasteland where dolts and cretins gather, clutching their one-syllable thoughts like treasures. It’s a graveyard for imagination, a playground for the linguistically dead. Words die there, strangled by the suffocating limits of mediocrity. A bleak echo of wasted potential.
I’m always irritated by the three (3) endings: the reunion of the Hobbits after Frodo/Sam’s rescue: the wedding of the King; Frodo sailing away with the elves and (I’ve just noticed a FOURTH) the return to Hobbitville with Sam and Rosy. Jeebus. Every time I see it I find myself yelling “pick one”!
Denethor stuffing his face while sending his son to die is drumpf sitting in the white house watching #J6 on teevee, awol doing nothing as his zombie orcs ransacked our capitol.
I got the impression Tolkein was running out of ideas by then. The arrival of a huge army of the dead to improbably win a battle before disappearing has got to be one of the lamest plot points ever.
Listened to the audiobook this summer - omg the details & nuance. I’ve read them all more than 3x over the last 55 years. Highly recommend the audio. Whole new experience.
Thanks for reminding me to see the movies again soon.
The food thing is funny because in one of Jackson’s earliest films, Dead Alive, is possibly the grossest eating scene ever. I do wonder if the scene in RoTK is a wink to his fans.
You’re thinking of Theoden. Denethor is the Steward of Gondor, Faramir & Boromir’s father.
Lovely guy, not at all an abusive parent who can’t eat tomatoes without being disgusting.
Wish they’d added the book backstory about him trying to battle wills with Sauron through the Palantir. That helps explain some of why he is the way he is.
I forget where I read it but I read a take that described him as the ultimate doom scroller. The Palintir was somehow a waaaaay worse Twitter and I come back to that analogy often. Way more on the point comparison to the incoming guy (faux news Palintir) then to Theoden and Grima
Everyone should read "The Lord of the Rings" once
(@ least) I couldn't give a toss for fantasy as a genre
but Tolkien wrote some of the most beautiful prose
in the English language (TIKO). Anyone with aspirations of
author-hood particularly. I sort of resent the movies
for clouding my memory
Yes. The original series of movies was very good, but when I re-read the books I can just flutter past the pages where Denethor is sucking, though I always do read the part where the Anor-stone will only show a pair of ancient hands withering in flames.
My baby brother was probably 10 years old or so when I took him to see that, and when Denethor was saying all of those horrible things to Faramir, I looked over at my brother. His eyes were glittering and he had a very fierce look on his face, and he said something to the effect of, "Jerk!" SO CUTE.
swaths is usually meant for paths (the area of grass cut when using a scythe) but in context of this post they are saying they forgot most of what happened in the movie
I saw the movies in the theater 17 times! And bought the special extended DVDs as well as the theater version ones. Two Towers is my least fav of the 3 but I never get tired of 1 and 3!
Just binged the entire extended trilogy last weekend while battling a cold. Forgot how much war strategy is discussed in the EV, especially ROTK. Also so many parallels to our current situation. SO many. And yes, Denethor is trash.
Yeah... Peter Jackson really didn't even try to capture the whole Shakespearean ironic tragedy Tolkien had going on in the book with Denethor where he was a legitimately good man & capable leader whose mind broke in the darkest hour.
I love the films, but certain aspects such as you pointed out with Denethor are seriously poor. Neither he nor Faramir are done justly. The acting is excellent but Fran and Philippa didn't understand their characters.
in the books, there's a lot of nuance to him, whereas the films make him one dimensional. they basically make him out to be a stubborn self centered bureaucrat, instead of a strong Numenorian steward who is broken by despair and hopelessness.
Not as book accurate, but it helped with evening out Aragorns hesitance, also not book accurate, with more of an IRL political power balance element to it.
I figure if he had the second palantir, it would have been more sauron influence which would have been good, but adding humanities flaws 1/2
Instead it feels like a good way to go given that even the hope for the future has possible problems now. It also reminds us that we as humans also have problems inherently that we must fight as the audience against IRL.
I liked it cause his sons were still good people too. Even Sean Bean 🥹
I’d forgotten how satisfying that scene is, when the mad and craven Steward of Gondor gets whacked in the face by Gandalf with his staff to stop his blubbering cries of “abandon your posts!” and “flee for your lives!” Kinda really landed, tonight.
I also haven't seen them in several years and when I watched all 3 back to back at the cinema yesterday I was reminded how much I hated him 💀
But I was also reminded of what a peak male character Aragorn is, so it's all okay
Since Sauron doesn’t do anything active in ROTK, a movie really needs to sell Denethor as the main antagonist. (It does a pretty good job, maybe a pinch over the top).
Said it before, and I'll say it again, if Elrond saw how Denethor was treating Boromir and Faramir manners be damned he'd have smacked the Steward of Gondor right off of that throne and he'd be completely right to too.
Peter Jackson's changes in the Lord of the Rings were good changes, made sense, even the consolidating of characters but remained true to the characters mostly. The changes in the Hobbit made no sense and changed the entire character of Bilbo for the sake of making a trilogy rather than two movies.
agreed, that one I was fully expecting, because it show the growth of the four main characters. Several big missing characters but I wish they would have at least given a small part for Fatty Bulger since he played a key part early on. My 3rd grade teacher read us the books daily to us, thus my love
Every NYE my wife and I start the extended trilogy sometime mid morning and strive to finish it while making a huge series of appitizers throughout the day
He says probably my favourite line in the whole trilogy:
"Locked dark and deep in the vaults. Not to be used ... unless... at the utmost end of need." The relish in his eyes is perfect.
Denathor sucks hard, but for a guy who's been staring down Sauron in a Palantir for as long as he has, he's impressively sane and proves a capable protector of Gondor. It's the death of Boromir that pushes him to full crazy, and if not for Faramir existing, that would be almost understandable.
Probably Jackson’s worst bit of characterisation in the whole trilogy. A wonderful, scenery chewing performance from John Noble but all the nuance from the book evaporated.
Fantastic middle-distance runner, though. Nothing quenches his burning dedication. Really moves like he's got a fire lit under him. Only criticism is that he tends to fall off at the end.
Denethor in the book is quite a bit different from the adaption. He was generally sane and competent. His sanity took a plunge after believing Faramir was going to die from the Nazgûl. I love the films but I not how Denthor nor his son Faramir were treated. Both of their characters were diluted.
He truly sucks, no word of a lie. Falling down a high cliff while on fire was just desserts.
There's a grim humour in the fact that Denethor's death was just one of many dark, uncanny and strange things happening in and around Minas Tirith at the time, and likely went unnoticed.
I saw a thing talking about how acidic foods, like tomatoes, have a negative chemical reaction when combined with pewter, like the plates he ate off, and the guys basically has metal poisoning. Doesn't explain him being a sucky dad, but he was extra crazy for a reason
The scene where he sprints 300 yds while on fire just so he can yeet himself from the most scenic overlook in Minas Tirith has been a gif, replaying itself in my head since Election Day.
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And if you subscribe to the "Palantir is Fox News" theory, his behavior becomes quite... understandable. 🙃
Frighteningly apt.
Pippin’s song though? SLAPS.
Thanks for reminding me to see the movies again soon.
Cutting Bombadill was right 🤣
Lovely guy, not at all an abusive parent who can’t eat tomatoes without being disgusting.
(@ least) I couldn't give a toss for fantasy as a genre
but Tolkien wrote some of the most beautiful prose
in the English language (TIKO). Anyone with aspirations of
author-hood particularly. I sort of resent the movies
for clouding my memory
Took until the home release to clarify that it was just the most disgusting tomato bite ever
But yes, I guess! 😉
I figure if he had the second palantir, it would have been more sauron influence which would have been good, but adding humanities flaws 1/2
I liked it cause his sons were still good people too. Even Sean Bean 🥹
I’d forgotten how satisfying that scene is, when the mad and craven Steward of Gondor gets whacked in the face by Gandalf with his staff to stop his blubbering cries of “abandon your posts!” and “flee for your lives!” Kinda really landed, tonight.
But I was also reminded of what a peak male character Aragorn is, so it's all okay
It showed how the war touched EVERYWHERE, no refuge anywhere, so stand up to evil
THE SHIRE WAS NOT INVULNERABLE
"Locked dark and deep in the vaults. Not to be used ... unless... at the utmost end of need." The relish in his eyes is perfect.
tastes kinda like...cherry tomatoes
There's a grim humour in the fact that Denethor's death was just one of many dark, uncanny and strange things happening in and around Minas Tirith at the time, and likely went unnoticed.
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