truly maddening how this was never part of the discussion. paying nine bucks to save an hour is worth it for like 99 percent of hourly workers - ThreadSky

ryanlcooper.com • 56 days ago

truly maddening how this was never part of the discussion. paying nine bucks to save an hour is worth it for like 99 percent of hourly workers

Reposted from

the Most Tri-State Man Possible gets it

Comments

niftyfire25.bsky.social•56 days ago

Also I love the interviews about it where people don’t like paying congestion pricing tolls, but it turns out their employer pays for their tolls and they weren’t up front about it.

mithras.bsky.social•56 days ago

Isn't it going to be closer to two hours, with the drive out?

fearfulsymmetry.bsky.social•56 days ago

1000%. As a contractor I drive all over the place and traveling into the city completely nukes my productivity. If I wasn’t already in favor of this policy, hearing it presented this way would have gotten immediate buy-in from me and the likely the right-leaning dopes I work with.

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

sales pitch practically writes itself. "we gotta get those lazy liberals driving in for starbucks off the damn streets so us working stiffs can fix their damn apartments"

tmoney2007.bsky.social•56 days ago

Normalize using conservative biases to trick them into supporting good policies.

wdustice9.bsky.social•56 days ago

It’s going to be fascinating to watch how quickly this becomes super popular, especially with the working class people it is supposedly going to hurt

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

Manhattan electrician probably makes, what, 50 bucks an hour? that kind of money adds up quick

wdustice9.bsky.social•56 days ago

Oh yes and it’s also very difficult to put a price tag on the physical and emotional toll of sitting in traffic day after day. Literally destroys your health and well-being. The opposition, in hindsight, will look very silly

jwmason.bsky.social•56 days ago

Have you tried to hire an electrician? For $50, they won't even drive past your house and wave.

forbesquad.bsky.social•56 days ago

Makes that, company probably charges up to 3x that. Any congestion charge under $40 is a win for the company if it saves an hour of time.

seeyouinnj.bsky.social•56 days ago

Plus, fewer drivers will also mean fewer parkers, so garage prices may decrease or at least stop going up. And the influx of money to mass transit will improve the subway and prevent delays for those commuters too.

stevehorton.bsky.social•56 days ago

Where have you gone, Mo DiMaggio?
Our traffic turns its lonely eyes to you
Woo woo woo

marktspence.bsky.social•56 days ago

What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
Joltin' Joe just took the MTA
Hey, hey, hey
Hey, hey, hey

fascistsoftwitter.bsky.social•56 days ago

I have not heard of a single NYer complain about this that wasn’t rich yuppie who could easily afford this.

very-simple.com•56 days ago

these are always the stats I point to. the VAST majority of manhattanites, even the wealthy ones, don't own cars, which is pretty good proof that you do not need a car to function on this island. https://blog.tstc.org/2017/04/21/car-free-new-york-city/#:~:text=Manhattan%20households%20are%20the%20most,which%20used%202000%20census%20data).

tbapple.bsky.social•56 days ago

Nice to hear this side of the story.
Just a little note that the trucker toll is $14.40.

jeremy235.bsky.social•56 days ago

Obviously the victims of this policy are not the folks paying $9, but the ones who are NOT driving! *Those* are the people you need to weigh against the benefits of the policy.
Every person not on the road is -- inherently -- someone inconvenienced by the pricing!

amandaweavernovels.com•56 days ago

Assuming he'll also save an hour going home as well. He's an electrical engineer. I'm guessing fitting in two more hours of work in one day will pay for a week of congestion pricing.

grumpyrootbeer.bsky.social•56 days ago

This is the thing I always tell people who insist on driving about congestion pricing, pedestrianization, and funding for transit: you as a driver benefit immensely from there being fewer people in fewer cars on the road

drchrisdeutsch.bsky.social•56 days ago

That's an important point. Freeing up roads for people who have no other option while those who can avoid the fee by not driving in will be good for many.

betterpath.bsky.social•56 days ago

I'm all for congestion pricing, but one thing often overlooked: progressive advances such as this are great for society overall, but there are people who live on the edge. $9 is a lot of money for them. Would be great if this wasn't so regressive (less well off get hit harder).

jarekfa.bsky.social•56 days ago

In your opinion is this discount sufficient or is it still regressive. How could it be improved in your opinion without jeopardize its entire structure. https://new.mta.info/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions/low-income-discount-plan

betterpath.bsky.social•56 days ago

Great, except the first 10 rides :)

jamellebouie.net•56 days ago

the person for whom $9/day would destroy their financial situation is almost certainly not driving into midtown manhattan for work.

michaelcaley.bsky.social•56 days ago

and taxing something that is done almost exclusively by well-off people is progressive

jamellebouie.net•56 days ago

i really don't think people understand the relative affluence of the typical person who a) owns a car and b) drives into midtown or downtown manhattan for work

ellinst.bsky.social•56 days ago

Affluent but also lacking the sense god gave a flea. You notice in Succession they took a helicopter.

very-simple.com•56 days ago

people see "contractor" and think "working class", while I think about how my plumber charges me $195/hour plus travel time. whenever I need service. and that's a bargain compared to some others I've hired in the past (not least because they do quality work).

very-simple.com•56 days ago

the one time my regular plumber wasn't available for an emergency, I called a service my super recommended. they cost twice as much AND used shoddy materials that required my regular plumbers to come back and basically redo the work the following year.

keithdecent.bsky.social•56 days ago

Decreased risk of a parking ticket and a faster commute is worth the fee alone for these guys

petergratton.bsky.social•56 days ago

$9 bucks is a rounding error on how much you'll pay at a parking lot.

betterpath.bsky.social•56 days ago

I've been poor, really poor. Paying for mass transit was a burden. I like congestion pricing, but remember those days. I see another barrier for people who are on the edge. That's life. Just raising the issue. I understand from some comments a modified impact for lower income drivers.

oneoneder.bsky.social•56 days ago

It's NYC. Were you poorly, really poor, in NYC while owning a car?

fastento.bsky.social•56 days ago

I have had this thought a lot too. The vast majority of non-manhattanite americans have no concept of how travel in an actual dense city center works. They hear about congestion pricing and imagine what it would be like if it were implemented in Salt Lake City or wherever.

jamellebouie.net•56 days ago

exactly this

gavinjohnson.bsky.social•56 days ago

Congestion pricing would unironically improve Salt Lake City. Only problem is that the state would inevitably grab the funds and it wouldn't go toward Salt Lake or infrastructure.

opals25.bsky.social•56 days ago

Working in downtown Chicago I tell you I don't see a lot of beaters pulling into the parking garages everyday at rush hour.

pacemaker64.bsky.social•56 days ago

I had this exact interaction yesterday but for LA. The vast majority of Americans live in car dependent hellscapes with no alternative. That being said, once you see the vision there's a good chance you know a place that would benefit from congestion pricing.

tstaub.bsky.social•56 days ago

I have this same video that keeps popping up on my feed about how congestion pricing only benefits the 6 figure worker in favor of the 4 figure worker. I'm like: the 4 figure worker is taking the M15 down second avenue.

jerrygarciascat.bsky.social•56 days ago

Anyone who wants a human example of why this tax sucks please dm me

jjgass.bsky.social•56 days ago

This is true. Police make pretty good money these days.

dickius.bsky.social•56 days ago

And they cover their license plates so they won’t get billed.

kodiak.app•56 days ago

There is a lot I don't understand about that typical person, having worked with a number of people who were affluent enough that they COULD be that person, but took the subway because it was easier and faster than driving.

epicciuto.bsky.social•56 days ago

Parking already costs an absolutely wild amount of money. In my New York suburb, no one, not even very wealthy people, drive to work in Manhattan what with traffic and parking costs. Literally the only person I know who does it employs a chauffeur.

memphis11.bsky.social•56 days ago

Suspect the price for an hour is more than 9 bucks a way tho

alexdecampi.bsky.social•56 days ago

And if they are, there is an exemption for people earning $50k or less

betterpath.bsky.social•56 days ago

Wonderful!!!

gwbiscuit.bsky.social•56 days ago

Agreed. They’d also be paying the bridge toll and for parking, whether it be at a meter or garage.

nirebryce.breadthcharge.net•56 days ago

for what it's worth, it probably costs that much in gas and maintenance for the hour in stop and go traffic, though I understand that those costs are usually invisible because more than just the commute causes it. but esp. in winter when you're sitting in road salt, it probably comes out ahead

nirebryce.breadthcharge.net•56 days ago

way more cost if your car is bought used and isn't amazing because you can't afford better. especially if you can't afford the preventative maintenance

monospace.com•56 days ago

Living on the edge, my ass. If you can afford a car, the insurance, the gas, the tolls, and the parking, you can afford the congestion fee.

meelar.bsky.social•56 days ago

So advocate for a UBI or something, rather than shitting on a policy that even you nominally support.

betterpath.bsky.social•56 days ago

Why so hostile? I'm not 'shitting' (nice phraseology) on anything. Just raising a point about a complex issue. Not everything is simple--good and bad. Calm down. If you took anger from your information filter, you might recognize an ally.

meelar.bsky.social•56 days ago

There are three replies to your comment, and all of them seem to view you as someone who's not supportive of congestion pricing. I don't think you've communicated very well, and you'd be more helpful if you were more vocally positive about this exciting new program as it launches

betterpath.bsky.social•56 days ago

My comment begins with "I'm all for congestion pricing". You're right. People don't take the time to read carefully. I learned when I was teaching, repeat it if it's important. People repeat the refrain in their heads, not the one you're expressing.

keithdecent.bsky.social•56 days ago

People who make under $50k/yr get a 50% discount after the first 10 trips of every month. If they don’t drive in at peak times the fee is only $2.25. Also if they make under $60k/yr than the fee is tax deductible

keithdecent.bsky.social•56 days ago

Also 85% of the working poor take public transpo into the zone. 275,000 ppl benefitting from increased MTA funding vs 5000 or so being hit with the charge (to which the previously mentioned discounts apply)

muleskinnerokie.bsky.social•56 days ago

Pretty much every anti-congestion measure I've ever seen touted in the last 20 years was followed by an interview with a driver saying something like "It won't change MY behavior, but if it gets other drivers off my road, its worth it to me."

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

Dems, especially NY Dems, are pathologically allergic to doing basically anything. but it turns out you can just do stuff! pass new policies, and if they're smart and well designed you'll improve people's lives!! https://bsky.app/profile/joshsternberg.com/post/3lf3fjdvtcc2d

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

I would be a lot of money most of the benefit of this toll will go to suburban commuters. these people don't give a shit about nine *dollars*, they view the toll as an assault on their identity and status https://bsky.app/profile/collie.bsky.social/post/3lf3gzo7xz22u

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

me being able to drive my car around in the most stupid possible location for free is proof that society caters to my every whim and I am on top, even if it sucks ass for me personally

trashturkey.bsky.social•56 days ago

Definitely a weird cultural issue I've noticed where certain types will refuse any form of public transit, no matter how fast and pleasant, in order to take a car. Even in places where driving sucks ass and is expensive as hell. Definitely right about it being a big part of identity.

grumpyrootbeer.bsky.social•56 days ago

I've never been to NYC but this was pretty much my diagnosis of anyone who chose to drive in DC when I lived in the area. Only the incredibly fearful and narcissistic would willingly subject themselves to such an experience when other options exist.

mitchsolomon.bsky.social•56 days ago

Not only do people complain about things habitually but they take active joy in doing damage to their bottom lines and sense of belonging https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/11/23/nyregion/nyc-outdoor-dining-sheds-removal.html

jdvdub.bsky.social•56 days ago

For lots of these people it’s a weird inferiority complex Manhattan itself. They want/need to go there, but they don’t want to feel looked down on because they live in some suburb, they want to feel like the city is lucky to have them.

toomoody.bsky.social•56 days ago

As someone who drives in the NY metro but rarely into Manhattan (I generally take the train), I’m hoping this has a downstream effect of just fewer cars on the roads period. Maybe it will be quicker when I want to get to the airport if there aren’t a bunch of suburban commuters clogging the roads.

mrsdewinter.bsky.social•56 days ago

Saw an interview with a NJ trucker who said his trip was shortened considerably.

sirhcwarrior.bsky.social•56 days ago

yeah, i'm really hoping it encourages more people to bike and walk if all of that gets safer. plus, the money is supposed to go for huge improvements to the subway. so, we'll see.

15c3po.bsky.social•56 days ago

I have lived in Brooklyn for a while and when I briefly lived in Manhattan I was shocked how shitty it is for pedestrians. Seven lanes of traffic to cross an avenue, constant street noise, just horrible. I hope they get some relief.

213-258-2858.bsky.social•56 days ago

Life in Manhattan is horrible, that's why no one lives there - Yogi Berra (sorta)

ayjayf.bsky.social•56 days ago

I lived and worked in NY for 3 years. Worst for me was coming S from the Bronx, exiting NB off the Henry Hudson to get to the GW Bridge to Jersey, having to cross 6-7 lanes in something like < 1k ft. Even driving in Manhattan is hell, let alone walking or biking. Relief for everyone, let’s hope.

laterbacon.bsky.social•56 days ago

There have been some real great strides towards making it better (Broadway bike boulevard comes to mind) but overall it still sucks to walk in most of Manhattan.

gibbers.bsky.social•56 days ago

Watching storefront retailers consistently oppose things that would be good for them, while prioritizing things that would be bad for everyone, was one of the driving issues to make me realize the small business class will never align against corporate interests imo.

wattasecond.bsky.social•56 days ago

Gov Hochul wasted like 200 hours of this man’s time

johncastiglione.bsky.social•56 days ago

"Lazy Democrat" Theory is like "Pedocon Theory" in that it has more explanatory and predictive power than anything else that has been proposed or discussed in political science over the last twenty-odd years.

markshatraw.bsky.social•56 days ago

NY Dems in particular are the party of a handful of wealthy real estate magnates and mid-level pharma execs who are perfectly satisfied with the status quo

bendwalsh.bsky.social•56 days ago

incorrect! it's even worse. the head of the NY state democratic party is a guy who... owns some summer camps in the Catskills

michaelcaley.bsky.social•56 days ago

the thing that never ceases to amaze is how incredibly small-time the grifters that run the state and county parties are

at least in Jersey the Norcross machine was doing big time real estate deals with their power

bendwalsh.bsky.social•56 days ago

definitely a theme in the Adams Admin corruption too. pathetically rinky dink. this is NY! dream big baby

mcmjolnir.bsky.social•56 days ago

way closer to getting pinched for pilfering stationery than the big time hoodwink

grudgingsignup.bsky.social•56 days ago

yeah but now every time they go to a function of any sort they have to hear the sort of people who wouldn't bother to pick $9 up off the street bitch endlessly at them about it

sirhcwarrior.bsky.social•56 days ago

actually, they've gotten a lot done. Hochul pushed off implementation of this for a bit due to inflation (and perhaps because she worried about re-election), but it was always still in play. now we see how it goes.

bwreed.bsky.social•56 days ago

Well, we'll see. The NY Post is going to go all-in on propaganda about this policy. Let's see if it holds up.

kdb150.bsky.social•56 days ago

In about 3 weeks they will realize their core audience likes it and switch to giving Trump credit for it.

sirhcwarrior.bsky.social•56 days ago

ouch! and, also, correct.

alanneff.bsky.social•56 days ago

E.g., the Affordable Care Act (with qualifications concerning clunkiness and under-inclusion). Far from perfect, but an improvement for many people and now popular.

tokustarvulkan.bsky.social•56 days ago

The ACA was insanely good for millions even without the original plan. A curse upon the Senate, particularly Lieberman, the useless git.

pxtl.ca•56 days ago

Seriously, how was "driving in Manhattan is only free if your time is worthless" not part of the campaign for this?

whetmoser.com•56 days ago

so much pocketbook coverage is through the lens of Special Treats

whitsendkc.bsky.social•56 days ago

I've been personally pushing this narrative that congestion pricing and widely available mass transit are good for drivers. It's not pedestrians or riders vs drivers, it's clearing unnecessary congestion/pollution/noise for better QOL for everyone

skiskamp.bsky.social•56 days ago

But it won't remain that way.

IT.

NEVER.

DOES.

People will save time in the short run, but eventually, more and more will think that, and congestion will be right back to where it was. Then prices will rise with the PURPOSE of weeding out just enough people so there's some time savings.

valkyriekaren.bsky.social•56 days ago

London's congestion/emission charging scheme (also widely opposed at the time) has lead to a longterm 10% reduction in traffic, and a 16% reduction in harmful vehicle emissions.

eloralee.bsky.social•56 days ago

Ok but this is the opposite takeaway from the doordashing burritos (rather than whipping up some rice and beans) debate.

valkyriekaren.bsky.social•56 days ago

It's almost like people have differing priorities based on their individual circumstances. Wild if true.

valoral.bsky.social•56 days ago

Being able to work from home after having to work in an office has opened my eyes on how much I would have paid to either eliminate or reduce my commute. I recently had a few days of going into the office during rush hour and it was torture going through stop and go traffic for an hour and a half.

antiochuswilson.bsky.social•56 days ago

This. There's been so little discussion about how congestion pricing actually helps businesses.

wp410.bsky.social•56 days ago

while I support this....they really need to interview all of these people in July and see how they feel....I don't know how much time is going to be saved when people are just going to want to come to NYC regardless cause it's actually nice outside.

The winter is not the best time to judge this.

bskylife.bsky.social•56 days ago

Possibly 2 hours if the return trip is also faster.

viktorshtrum.bsky.social•56 days ago

it was a bad faith discussion fostered by politicians and media outlet owners who are all driven around and never ride transit.

bendwalsh.bsky.social•56 days ago

*exact* same thing emerged from the 14th st busway -- there was a whole NYT piece with man-on-the-street quotes from guys driving delivery trucks talking about how much easier their jobs were with less traffic and tons of loading zones

bendwalsh.bsky.social•56 days ago

and in both cases, it was exactly what people who actually know what they are talking about said would happen

pocketseagull.bsky.social•56 days ago

I’ve actually given value to my time. To me, an hour of my time is worth $100. For example, if I have to take a later flight in the morning so I don’t wake up at the ass-crack of dawn, and the flight is $100 more, I’d pay it. If it’s $200 more, I wouldn’t.

geisty.bsky.social•56 days ago

True for a lot of us! There's a point in my commute home where sucking it up and paying the Triborough toll saves upwards of 20 minutes getting home and eliminates a meaningful amount of knife-fighting in traffic along bombed-out roads. Fair trade, especially after a long draining day.

sonofherby.bsky.social•56 days ago

I would murder a bus full of nuns to shave an hour off my commute.

ebwhamilton.bsky.social•56 days ago

Breaking: time is money

thejeffbyrnes.com•56 days ago

💀

dmitt.bsky.social•56 days ago

Also "Joltin' Joe" would be fantastic branding for an electrical contractor.

gjssmudge51.bsky.social•56 days ago

fedfedfedadelphia.bsky.social•56 days ago

I mentioned this in another thread but if I lived in a city that has congestion, I'd happily pay an additional fee for services needed by someone who had to pay that toll to reach me on time or to maintain their schedule for the day

isaaccp.bsky.social•56 days ago

Plus whatever time he saves on the way back

pyrholidon.bsky.social•56 days ago

I bet that most of the people who are pissed about it are all the cops that live in New Jersey.

evanka.bsky.social•56 days ago

It's deductible for businesses... Even small ones.

ibjdpcnt.bsky.social•56 days ago

If I really had to drive through Manhattan I would happily pay $10 to reduce the traffic even 25%!

jon-madden.bsky.social•56 days ago

I guess that depends on if you can bill that hour in traffic to the customer/company or not. But if it’s billable, the customer would probably prefer to pay the $9 then the one hour of labor at $50+ per hour.

chimeracoder.bsky.social•56 days ago

It was a huge part of the discussion for most of the past 17 years since congestion pricing was first proposed. It was less of a talking point from June 2024 onwards, because the immediacy of the fiscal problems Hochul was creating took precedence

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

she is just so unbelievably incompetent. maybe the single dumbest governor of New York ever and that is saying something

whatsarasaid.bsky.social•56 days ago

it's pretty easy math: if you can't net $9 of income from the hour you saved not sitting in traffic you also can't afford a car

scotchbot5000.bsky.social•56 days ago

$9 is nothing next to the price and availability of parking, from what U have been led to believe. If one can afford the parking then the $9 is negligible

myleslobdell.bsky.social•56 days ago

Exactly. They need to jack rates way up if they hope to make a positive impact.

ryanlcooper.com•56 days ago

seems to be having quite a large effect already!

thejeffbyrnes.com•56 days ago

Yup! Check this out: https://bsky.app/profile/joshsternberg.com/post/3lf3fjdvtcc2d

speedlimit9.bsky.social•56 days ago

Guy probably coming out $120ish ahead paying that nine bucks.

flytrikeair.bsky.social•56 days ago

Also maddening how every anecdote today is proof of someone's POV on congestion pricing, despite today being the first Monday after the holidays. All of them have to chill and wait to see how this actually affects traffic over a few months

nicoleamurray.com•56 days ago

it was part of the discussion people just fallaciously value their money more than their time.

meelar.bsky.social•56 days ago

This is also why there's no organized push for a shorter workweek in the US (which sucks! I really wish we had a party that supported it)

scaryintrovert.bsky.social•56 days ago

This. All day every day!

muleskinnerokie.bsky.social•56 days ago

Less than half the American workforce is salaried anymore, so the salaried work week is more of a niche issue here. That's why the fight here has been over the minimum wage.

sorrycop.bsky.social•56 days ago

Joe "cant run his buisness" the "worker" haha incredible bullshit

pknegten.bsky.social•56 days ago

Zero chance this saves anybody an hour a month from now. One anecdote from one electrician on the first work day of congestion pricing is all we got so far.

pknegten.bsky.social•56 days ago

(And I’m fine paying $9, just saying it’s still gonna suck driving in)

Comments

Posting Rules

Reply