Two lawyers, one Yale educated, one Harvard educated; one the VP, one a senator, suggesting that decisions made by courts aren’t legitimate if they don’t like the outcome. This is dangerous territory.
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We understand it is dangerous and a very real possibility that court orders will be ignored. The question we need answered is, then what the hell do we do?
If Musk or one of his workers violate a court order to cease, and continue, I assume the judge can rule on contempt and jail them, right? Can the president pardon them for that action?
1. These are unsettled questions. Trump can almost certainly pardon a criminal contempt citation but not civil contempt. Civil contempt can be financial penalties. There is also contempt of Congress. We’ve never been here before, so don’t believe anyone who thinks they have fast answers.
2. If a court does level financial penalties for civil contempt is there a stop on how high the fine could be? What about contempt of Congress? Try not to despair.
Torys tried the same in the UK when they kept losing in court. Unlike America at this time, they weren’t in the middle of a coup so failed. Like America though, there was zero consequence for the laws they broke, other than being told they had broken them. So the law doesn't apply to all.
This is a coup. It’s just amazing that everyone knows it is and after four years of hand wringing no one we elected has a good plan. @jimacosta.bsky.social @maddow.msnbc.com @govpritzker.illinois.gov
Maybe it's just perception, but Harvard and Yale turn out some really horrible human beings with advanced degrees. Maybe they should reevaluate their ethics requirements... or have ethics requirements.
1)This was from my chat w/chatGPT about where we are at RN. That's really concerning. In such a scenario, it's vital to stay informed and engaged. Advocacy groups, the media, and legal organizations can play a crucial role in highlighting these issues and pushing back against unlawful actions.
If protections are being undermined, it’s essential for the public to support those affected and advocate for accountability and transparency. Staying engaged and working together can help uphold democratic values.
I don’t know what it will take. It seems as if these crazy people want a dictatorship. Almost like they are thrilled about it. Or it could be “As long as they hurt “those” people” we are fine with everything trump does. These people are fucking insane.
Plus the possibility of red state voters turning on people like Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's too far into the cult for anything else to bring her back.
I totally agree. Only way to hurt these guys is by hurting their wallets.
Not just on Feb 28, every day of the week and month. I don’t know how to hurt Meta though.
It’s up to the people to come together and be loud- don’t stop pushing back or speaking out! We can not normalize any of this! It’s also important not to burn out and do your best to stand strong in your truth and values. No branch of government is stronger than its people coming together.
It wont be enough. Lying machines will be rigged. Elon will fund primary challenges. The obeying in advance isn’t helping them and those republican lawmakers will be discarded when no longer useful.
Why is money the only language these people understand?! I don’t feel like we’re even going up against fellow humans at this point. They’ve all been overtaken by body snatchers. When Musk talks about the few people that have had his brain chip implanted, I start to wonder if it’s been a lot more.
Can't those not complying be held in contempt? Perhaps the judge should be demanding they come back to court in a week with proof of compliance. No proof, send them to jail until they comply - just like what would happen to you and me.
Sounds about whyte, man. The whole beginning to end of it. Vetting our elected representatives takes things to a whole new level as we are seeing true colors.
I read today that the US Marshalls are part of the DOJ. I have no idea what they'll do. Suppose they're told to enforce something by a judge, or they'll be held in contempt too. Even Mike Pence found a line he wouldn't cross, as amazing as that is
Well, it is a coup de tat, we’ve got paramilitary blocking members of Congress from getting into government buildings wearing a militia insignia and it’s very well organized, and our government is now gone and it’s really important that we address this immediately
The Strategy:
Resistance shouldn't mimic fox/maga comms!
Resistance SHOULD
1Do the cheering; gather the electorate roll out comms
2CONSISTENTLY
3CONSISTENTLY
4Share our WINS
5Cogently: call out maga! Not for Canada/Panama/Greenland
6CALL THEM OUT ON HOW THEY'RE KILLING THE AMERICAN VOTERS WALLET!
We are way past the point where we might be "saved" by the courts. The autocrats are on a roll and must be resisted at every opportunity by every single person. Fight, fight, fight.
Every single day since Trump got into office (even on Inauguration Day) lawyers have been beating him back in state & federal courts. There are very dedicated public interest lawyers. Here’s info on one group. https://Publiccitizen.bsky.social
Yes that is good; many good groups litigating. Anything that deligitimizes them. But that’s not going to stop them. There needs to be widespread, active, angry resistance.
ANY lawyer knows better. That they went to Harvard/Yale is completely irrelevant, except it shows that going to an allegedly elite school doesn't ensure you'll be a competent or ethical attorney. So much for their "superior" education.
Just because they are highly educated doesn't mean they can't be stupid and corrupt. Americans who support Trump and his gang of thugs need to start using their brains 🧠.
It’s been a long time coming & voters were warned over & over by so many. Unfortunately, a lot of us are lazy citizens & don’t do even the basic things to keep ourselves informed. maga voters are lost, but not all voters who voted for this thought they were voting for — this.
“We will have to destroy it to save it.” That is what the GOP/MAGA is doing to the US now. Destroying the US to rebuild it in their patriarchal, racist , straight, white image. The Constitution and laws mean nothing to them.
It’s not dangerous You’re legitimizing it with your voice It should be mocked. Also, bar complaint should be filed with context It is riddled with logical fallacies at best if any debate was even warranted Never argue with stupid People They’ll drag you down to their level & beat you with experience
Here is what I know-we have no rights protected by the constitution. None. They are tiny little allowances allowed by whomever is president. Let them burn it all down, so we can rebuild it into something no President or party or rich tech idiot scammer can take away.
Why are we surprised? This is how it was always going to go. Why did anyone think he would value the courts? So far he hasn’t. No crime was punished. No jury verdict honored. It’s already happened. Which is why at jury duty next week I ain’t convicting anyone. Law is dead.
Domestic terrorism is ideologically driven crimes committed by individuals in the United States that are intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or influence the policy or conduct of a government per USA PATRIOT Act (18 U.S.C.).
Its conditioning. They know what they are saying isn't true.. but more people in the country are ignorant to our laws then there are educated.. they are signalling to those who don't know better and convince them this was always a fact.. repeat a lie enough, they will defend it, even die for it..
Proves SOME educated people are stupid and use their "papers" to masterbate in front of the rest of us! 🤢 These guys are playing with IT! In front of all of us! Sorry..not sorry!
Words matter! Apathy matters! They’re killing our democracy every minute of every day while we watch in horror! Be creative! ACT NOW! Resist NOW! It will only get worse. It will never be easier than it is NOW to stand up and speak out!! Support @aclu.org @democrats.org for starters #DOSOMETHING
In principle that makes sense, but Dobbs was not legitimately decided based on law, and decisions like Trump immunity are perversions of the Constitution. There is a big difference.
No Branch Of Government Can Remove The Constitutional Powers And Duties Of Another Branch Of Government!! Claiming This Is Legal— Is Constitutionally Lawless !! No President Has The Legal Authority To Assume The Powers Of Congress Or Senate—This Isn’t Presidential Executive Powers-It’s Fascism!!
More in one place is powerful. There have been 2 nationwide this year & they looked diluted. The woman's March was the largest in history & was impressive & it still didn't phase them! 5 million in one place at the same time is massive & invincible . Tiananmen SQ.was 1 million & did not work.
Where a system of checks and balances is working, some with more independent aspirations see “interference”. Co-equal branches of government was a smart idea.
The judge assigned to the case. Judge Engelmayer was presumably the judge sitting as the one to whom emergency TROs were presented, before the case was assigned. She has a Harvard BA and a Yale JD. Longtime AUSA in SDNY. Biden appointee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeannette_Vargas
They hate it because they cannot ignore suffering and don’t have complete power for the elite. Obviously democracy stands in the way of the elites treating everyone else like slaves.
They were DEI admitted students at their schools- part of the effort to admit people from rural states that don't actually have the chops to get in on their merit.
A polite understatement, I’d say. Pretty far down the slippery slope already. And while they only write it here as a “suggestion”, the implication is of course, that this is already the intention/strategy. It may still be a republic; whether you can keep it - not really sure.
Oh please pay the fvck attention. Leonard Leo Catholic Integralists. Google Carl Schmitt. You think Leo spent 30 years and $600 million stacking the courts to support the US Constitution?
How can smart, camera ready lawyers be this obtuse.
We need to have a plan for when they start ignoring the courts. Hopefully people a lot smarter than me (like you @joycewhitevance.bsky.social) are working on something.
We need a clear, unified strategy—not a scattered effort. Leadership is key, but it shouldn’t fall on one person. People like Joyce have skills that could help shape a plan—though that’s up to her.
You are making things up. She isnt an activist organizer. She’s a lawyer former federal prosecutor. Her skills are awesome for her specialty. I just see you waiting for others. Look to organizers man. Look to Indivisible, they ARE providing action plans. Why arent you demanding the same from men?
I’m not demanding anything. Nowhere in there is any demand. I don’t know why you take issue with me saying she’s smart and knows the law? I’m saying I hope there are some smart people (like Joyce is smart) working on a plan for when the administration refuses to follow court orders.
If laws don't exist, then their arguments don't exist. The rule of law, or unrule of law, can't apply to only one side of the argument. So much for the party of the rule of law. The Republican party and Lawyers will no longer exist. MAGAts are criminals complicit in a Coup d'état.
Straight out of the 1933 Nazi regime’s playbook, once Hitler was elected Chancellor. Denigrate and delegitimize any and all built in checks on their seizure of absolute power over the state.
Tom Cotton needs to go back home and take care of his poor state.. what a beautiful state.. full of poverty and uneducated.. it is sinful! What a pathetic lying man!
Again the Fed Govt has gone rogue. They are breaking their contract (US Constitution) with the states, to not abide with it. States need to take action … protect your constituents!
And Musk is prepping the base with his 40 million in Super Bowl ads to “explain” all the fraud he found by laying the groundwork for SS to be distributed by some crypto scheme he controls.
This is the right answer. If the Trump admin abides by court rulings it will unroll many if not most deeply unpopular EO’s. Also, unrest and protests of any kind will be followed by “National Emergency.” Seems like obvious path forward. Dems need to counter this.
They are quick to call “Obama judge” or “Biden Judge” but what about SC that blatantly increased presidential powers with immunity? What about Trump judge Cannon who let him go free even after insurmountable evidence of hoarding classified docs and obstructing investigation? The list goes on.
they gonna try to let paula white start making gov't agency decisions now? cause she is in a trump made up role just like DOGE...
these people are disgusting
The best statement on our Constitution and checks and balances was issued by Iowa Law alum. (Judge Coughnour) Not Harvard. Not Yale. Iowa. What exactly is the Ivy League teaching?
It’s teaching arrogant dipshits that they’re “masters of the universe.”
Truth be told I’ve never met an Ivy League grad who wasn’t an intolerably arrogant asshole and/or just weird as fuck. Which tracks; they accept mostly wealthy legacies and fucking weirdos with high GPAs and no common sense.
Well, you've never met me, my husband, or all our dear friends, so I'll try to not take this personally. You are correct that the elite law schools rely (too?) heavily on GPAs and LSAT scores. Dead wrong on the "mostly legacy" part.
Yes, please don’t take it personally. My best friend is a Columbia grad. I know there are “good” and “decent” elite law school grads… Yet many are architects of our own civil demise. It’s “money, money money and power.” Bought and sold.
No worries, I don't take this personally. I know how wrong this guy is. The vast majority of the hundreds of people I know from my law school days are progressives. No argument from me that the elite schools could do better on admissions & teaching of ethics. Too much reliance on "book smarts."
Still going to disagree with you. What they DON'T do is a very good job of screening out the sociopaths from the good people, or teaching anything other than the technical side of being a lawyer.
To be fair, it's hard to abandon the good faith presumption that doesn't distinguish between wanting to learn the law and cynically seeking power and prestige. ISTR that there was a physics dept that gave an astrophysics PhD to a young earth creationist who did all the work while not believing it
Sharing information with DOGE is not in any sense internal, because it is not part of the executive branch, or even the government, as Adrian Vermeule should know.
Great question. And unfortunately one that we will eventually have to answer. I believe SCOTUS will have to revise their ruling. Either that or we will need to learn Russian.
I can't fathom these SC Justices have to have younger family they are concerned about their future. What can they expect will happen if they don't rein in this mess they created.
Last time I checked it was the job of the courts to determine if decisions/actions were legitimate - not the people making the decisions or taking the action.
They are salivating at having their Andrew Jackson “let the Justices now enforce their order themselves” moment. We better start getting people ready for how to fight a different battle against the lawless.
Lawyers are the weak link in all of these corruption stories. They need to get disbarred: they're "officers of the Court ", and they are acting illegally.
Like I said. Only way trump’s leaving is in a body bag or blown to pieces. He’s been untouchable by the courts and if you think suddenly he’s going to start caring about the law then you’re nuts.
The regime will wait until whatever date they chose then he'll either be 25th'd & booted out or he'll gave a bad can of diet coke (instead of a cup of tea).
Of COURSE they do! We all know that the corrupt SCOTUS gave McFelon a free pass but that doesn't make the rest of the executive branch exempt! Can the fat orange felong pardon them if they are found in contempt of court for refusing to follow an order? Sure - prbly will - but let's make him do it.
Remember the first Trump term? He would do horrible things, then turn around and say that's what his opponents were doing. Lies on top of lies. That's what he and his supporters do. It's a horrid game they play to keep everyone in a state of anxiety and everything in a state of chaos.
This specifically happened with the felon in chief. He doesn’t like it so it gets changed or he gets the Supreme Court to pass immunity rules so he can go on about his retribution and corruption regime 2025 to 2029.
The Federalist Society has worked for so long to subvert the judiciary and fill it up with hard right zealots that they're flabbergasted and super pissed when a judge respects the Constitution and not their twisted interpretation of it
Seriously, you should have known that your democracy was fucked the moment they started blabbering nonsense about "unitary executive" without receiving the slaps it so richly deserved.
I am intimately familiar with Yale and Harvard students and grads.
No surprise that unadulterated greed is a motivating factor in their decision making.
Who in the world respects Vance's or Cotton's views on the judiciary?
Vance never practiced law and lies a lot. Cotton practiced just 3 years (Gibson,Dunn DC) and showed he doesn't understand the First Amendment' and inflated his military credentials.
There was once a senior government conference, consisting largely of lawyers, in a suburb named Wannsee. It's amazing what lawyers will find a way to legally justify.
Is it ironic that one belongs to a branch of the government and is complaining about a branch of the government doing it's Constitutional duty to ensure separation of power while that branch makes a ruling about the branch the other one belongs to that is abusing it's Constitutional power?
The executive cannot just magically establish an agency - CONGRESS HAS TO DO THAT.
Trump making up doge and doge/Musk/agents invading fed agencies and stealing sensitive data? Trump/a Musk impounding Congressionally appropriated funding? Those are actual violations of separation of powers.
That’s right Tom Musk and his agency are not legitimate ,he shouldn’t be in any of our data but maybe if he think he should be maybe we have a right to Musk and Tom’s data,
We need people to be telling us worst case scenario what we can do to not lose the country. Like if this gets worse worrying about how to get people to vote blue isn’t going to matter without a fair election
47 has never followed the rule of law and has never been held accountable for any of his crimes in his entire life. He just thumbs his nose and keeps on going.
Legend. The king of the grifters. Greatest con artist of all times. Guinness record holder for the greatest amount of people conned at the same time. You can’t touch the SuperCon. The real Teflon Don.
The fact that he has never been held accountable is the main issue. That’s why he feels he can just do whatever he wants and everyone needs to bow down to him.
“suggesting that decisions made by courts aren’t legitimate if they don’t like the outcome”
Given the decisions of the radical right wing MAGA Supreme Court and judges like Cannon, that’s not an unfair statement. Trump exposed serious flaws in our justice system.
He’s a convicted felon rapists and the ppl that voted for him think he’s a messiah …meanwhile President musk is running a teenage crime spree stealing from the American ppl. Really gross
Comments
I’m afraid that only a recession that affects red and blue states equally will be enough to get Republican legislators to turn on Trump.
Daddy issues and ignorance got us here
Trust you eyes.
They 100% do.
It will be seeing protestors shot on tv by active duty soldiers.
That will occur no later than by the end of this summer.
Just wait and see.
Not just on Feb 28, every day of the week and month. I don’t know how to hurt Meta though.
Resistance shouldn't mimic fox/maga comms!
Resistance SHOULD
1Do the cheering; gather the electorate roll out comms
2CONSISTENTLY
3CONSISTENTLY
4Share our WINS
5Cogently: call out maga! Not for Canada/Panama/Greenland
6CALL THEM OUT ON HOW THEY'RE KILLING THE AMERICAN VOTERS WALLET!
It’s overreached by a foreign & unvetted actors.
Traitors to the Constitution.
Domestic terrorism is ideologically driven crimes committed by individuals in the United States that are intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or influence the policy or conduct of a government per USA PATRIOT Act (18 U.S.C.).
I’m sure the gun folks are going to be taking up their arms as previously prescribed.
Douche
This is just another example of the Right wanting a completely different set of rules for themselves.
I know they don't give two shits about anything.
$300,000 to learn to be an idiot, with a brain full of mush
We are in a full blown constitutional crisis.
The same as climate science when they try to give the illusion of controversy.
#HarvardLaw
#YaleLaw
They’re un-American, and anti-democracy
Any decent journalist should be asking them why they hate America
The dictator on day one wants to be a dictator for life.
I hope there are enough decent Americans to stop this before it's too late.
How can smart, camera ready lawyers be this obtuse.
https://medium.com/@thcarter123/the-christofascist-coup-jan-20-2025-977f61616f39
BIPARTISAN negotiations are dead!
Democrats: WAKE UP
You have no R colleagues. What you have are MAGA Terrorists. Last i heard, the US does not negotiate with terrorists.
If you're from a State where these guys are licensed you all need to report them.
State level "Board of Bar Overseers", not the Bar Association.
When prices get high enough and dismissal of rule of law propagates in people's minds...were going to have a very serious problem...
Illiberal
We can do this. Mass x velocity.
If they knew that they could do this by force they would have. The Riots of 2020 scared the shit out of them cause it showed they are outnumbered.
these people are disgusting
Truth be told I’ve never met an Ivy League grad who wasn’t an intolerably arrogant asshole and/or just weird as fuck. Which tracks; they accept mostly wealthy legacies and fucking weirdos with high GPAs and no common sense.
But fuck Harvard and Yale Law, since were on the topic.
They seem to have a keen interest in matriculating sociopaths.
They. Are. Idiots.
All Yalies are bastards.
Last time I checked it was the job of the courts to determine if decisions/actions were legitimate - not the people making the decisions or taking the action.
Their rule of law only recognizes the court of brainwashed public opinion.
https://bsky.app/profile/peoriabummer.bsky.social/post/3lhq245vt5s2f
If you want to control a people
- control the media
- pick a group for them to hate
- give them a black man to beat
-and a messiah to wait for
"I don't LIKE this chaos"
They voted for chaos, BUT thought it was just for OTHER PEOPLE..
#PearlClutchers #MAGA
No surprise that unadulterated greed is a motivating factor in their decision making.
https://bsky.app/profile/amicusopus.bsky.social/post/3lhra3bhvo22f
the institutions.
Vance never practiced law and lies a lot. Cotton practiced just 3 years (Gibson,Dunn DC) and showed he doesn't understand the First Amendment' and inflated his military credentials.
Gracious.
Trump making up doge and doge/Musk/agents invading fed agencies and stealing sensitive data? Trump/a Musk impounding Congressionally appropriated funding? Those are actual violations of separation of powers.
Given the decisions of the radical right wing MAGA Supreme Court and judges like Cannon, that’s not an unfair statement. Trump exposed serious flaws in our justice system.
Or, France 1788
Those are the options. Because he absolutely will not leave this time.
#resist
Nothing has changed except the pot he steals from is now an entire Nation
The courts cannot save us from fascists.