While I agree with him on the 1st part - red light cameras should be deemed, in my mind, unconstitutional (no due process, not PROVEN guilty, etc.) and removed - the 2nd part is abhorrent. While I'm worried those cameras could be used in "Big Brother" methods, his post (as kids say) gives me the ick
Hear me out... Red light cameras are one thing, but speed cameras remove a human and a culturally necessary, awkward, and terrifying interaction. They gotta work for it!
On one hand, red light cameras encourage people to slam on their brakes when a light turns yellow, which creates its own form of safety hazard, and can easily engage erroneously and ticket people who didn't actually run the light.
There are also issues (in many American cities at least) where the cameras are operated by for-profit contractors who keep a large portion of the fines. They can even manipulate light timing and have been caught shortening yellows. With this much money at play, bribery/kickbacks are also common.
I am ok with red light cameras if and only if they are operated by municipal government with fines being put towards the public good (fund public transit) and their operation is overseen by traffic engineers along with law enforcement.
Yeah unless this was an “it’s the middle of the night and the pressure sensor that cues the light to change is clearly malfunctioning” sort of situation (based on this account’s other posts, guessing it was gunning it into a crowded intersection during rush hour)
I’ll admit to running some lights when I knew for sure this was the problem, but I don’t know if they even issue camera tickets for that? Probably depends on jurisdiction, but I bet you could challenge a late night camera ticket pretty easily
The mayor of my city just announced the red light cameras & the discussion on NextDoor about it is similar to this... Of course, it's just another indication of a 'commie' mayor. lol
I mean I have ethical problems with red light cameras and speed cameras. The research on efficacy is also pretty shaky. But damn. Like, running red lights kills people! I've been almost killed like a half a dozen times.
Please explain how "the state stealing money is bad" is a bad take. I'm unfamiliar with that account, so I only have this for context, but the state stealing money is bad actually
Even within context you see why that's a bad take. There was nobody around is never a good argument. You are correct on disparity, but wrong in the assumption it's a major part.
Fines, as they stand, disproportionately affect the poor. The rich, who studies show repeatedly, are worse drivers, can just pay and play. IDK if you've ever lived in a house where a bullshit ticket meant no dinner, but I have. I digress. If the only repercussion is money, it's legal for the rich
Yeah, no. That's an argument for adopting income based fines, not that fines are somehow the state "stealing" because of something you yourself did, completely willingly.
The solution is wider and more equitable application of red light cameras, not getting rid of them entirely. They are predominantly in poor neighborhoods because those neighborhoods have the highest incidences of traffic injuries/deaths. Being poor does not prevent you from stopping at a red light.
I should add, the solution is ACTUALLY designing safer streets that are not car-centric and where people cannot drive fast/dangerously, but we're talking about American cities so...yeah...I don't have much hope.
Furthermore, when you can automate the process, and the cameras are 99% in poor communities, you further extract wealth from the already wealthless. Extracting revenue so that you can then give an occupying force more money and more technology is bad, actually
Ok, here's the thing, everyone is correct. Do I feel bad that he got a ticket? No, dude admitted to doing the thing. But over reaching big brother shit is also bad. These can be true at the same time. It's called nuance and there's very little of it on the internet.
If the punishment for a crime is a fine, it's legal for the rich and devastating to the poor. IDK how else to explain this. Robots issuing tickets is bad
I always stop at red lights because, ya know, I don't wanna kill anybody. My roommate ran one while using my car. Guess who got the ticket? Thankfully, I successfully argued that, since there was no visual confirmation of me being in the car, there was no proof that I had run the red light.
Nothing about robots catching lawbreakers prevents fines from being progressive. You’re conflating two different issues, because your argument is silly
Would scaling tickets to the marginal utility of wealth like is done in some other countries fix this issue for you, or is there an underlying objection that would make dealing with this specific issue useless for resolving your objection?
2 different things there. Are fines as punishments often seen as a way for the rich to pay to do crime? Sure. Is getting a ticket based on redlight camera is far far far safer for POC than an actual cop stopping them for a traffic offense (esp in the US)
You called it stealing and it's not. If you want to change your terms now and act like you were using the new terms all along, you're entitled to the respect such argument engenders.
i think it's still sort of an issue that for poor people losing any amount of money can be a massive hit, like starvation, homelessness, etc, whereas for a ceo they're not going to be facing those things even if the fine is proportional. it's better than what we have but still not quite equitable!
If it makes you feel better, a human being looks at the picture the camera took, which was triggered by a sensor at the intersection. That human being issues the violation according to the law. There are no robots involved.
Hey I know you're getting dunked on but I also see your perspective of course. But as someone who lives in a place w tons of traffic cams, they locate them for safety reasons. If revenue was the main driver they'd put em on the highway. And nobody has less of a voice in policy than a kid on a bike
running red lights is extremely dangerous. fines are a way to disincentivize running red lights (ideally, reducing the incidence of red light running, and reducing the risk thereby posed).
therefore the government taking shit from people who run red lights is good, and the opposite is a bad take
one of my neighbors was killed by a hit and run while she tried to cross the road a few years ago, i go past her memorial every day. a camera might have saved her life
but hey, pedestrian lives don't matter as much as a driver's right to pilot their murder machines any way they want
Would the camera have jumped in the way and saved her? Be honest. And does the camera actually prevent these things from happening? Because according to this very thing that sparked this argument, they don't. Dude ran it anyway. Sorry for your loss. Government overreach isn't the answer
getting hit with a fine every time he blew through a red light would have either taught him not to do that or resulted in him losing his license, hope that helps you understand the issue! my neighbor's name was Laura and she had three kids and was getting her life back together before being murdered
I don't know if Bluesky is big enough to make you into a Beandad style main character, but you really can just take a moment here and say, "wow. I guess you guys DO have a good point, and I may have reflexively jumped to what is actually a pretty bad take." That's always a possibility.
The state collecting fines for 100% proven traffic violations as the law stipulates is not by any stretch of the imagination “stealing money” unless you’re some kind of nutbag libertarian
My favorite thing is that we're being refered to as "shitlibs" because we don't have the same take on red light cameras as *checks notes* libertarians?
Taxpayers pay for the cops and EMTs that respond to car crashes. So it makes perfect economic sense to charge unsafe drivers more for using streets. Why should pedestrians and safe drivers subsidize such blatantly unsafe behavior?
Actually not one bit do you want more cops potentially murdering ppl cause steroids made they’re balls shrink or a robot that may fin you 100 bucks fuckin weirdo
It's absolutely wild to me how over like the past 5 years so many people's beliefs have become" everything should be exactly the way I want it to be all the time and I should never be inconvenienced" and try to square that with whatever political belief is closest
willfully putting everyone around you in danger and disregarding their lives and safety is what true freedom looks like. it’s about ME baby, not you -runs over a pedestrian on my way to tbone a minivan full of kids-
It definitely seemed more lighthearted when it initially hit the Twitter scene, but yeah, it soon became apparent that unfollowing was going to happen at some point.
yeah that's where I was over there too - being a huge sports fan and having grown up in the 70s there was a lot that hit for me, but it soon became "get off my lawn" with a lot of misogyny etc, so that was that
I just remember that acct having meltdowns every climate change protest at a sporting event. Like incredibly out of proportion meltdowns even if that was a thing to be bothered by
Red light cameras I’m fine with, even though there are specific cases (not wanting to jam on your brakes in slick conditions, moving through an intersection to help get an emergency vehicle through, etc) where it would be unfair to get a ticket. But you can always appeal based on circumstances.
You just know these mfers with their thin blue line and BACK THE BLUE! stickers on their vehicles are the first ones to complain that their freedoms are being trampled on and that they're being unfairly treated when they get caught breaking the law. 🙄
well of course, the law is specifically meant to be used againt people you don’t like, right? because I’m a good guy deep down, maybe, well, who cares, it’s just I want the others to suffer so it’s not fair if MY actions have consequences?! #tyranny
They banned red light cameras in Texas. But they are bullshit. I used to use license plate covers & over exposure spray to evade them. I wasn't running red lights or anything, but they can catch you easily hitting yellow by tthe last second.
I live in a city where I see red lights run daily. Not surprisingly, I also see a lot of car accidents. If the light is red, just fucking stop. Where are you going that 30 seconds is going to really make that much of a difference??
Studies have shown that in the long term, red light cameras reduce t-bone collisions in the intersection AND reduce red light traffic tickets, since the camera keeps people from running the red light
He screams of Trumper of the early Gen X type, probably full of lead poisoning worse than later contemporaries of his generation who grew up post lead gasoline bans.
big brother got him for *checks notes* running a red light and fines him $100 and no reeducation camps to teach his ass not to run red lights? doesn't sound like the big brother i know
Comments
On the other, yeah, don't run red lights
Every once in a long while I'll see a motorcyclist wave a car up at a red.
There really is something dystopian about sitting at a 5 minute red light at 1AM with no cars passing the whole time.
Strange math that computes.
I definitely don't want *increased* penalties short of extremely high speeds and/or continued red light infractions.
therefore the government taking shit from people who run red lights is good, and the opposite is a bad take
but hey, pedestrian lives don't matter as much as a driver's right to pilot their murder machines any way they want
https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2023/speed-cameras-first-year.shtml
Not worth it.
You're in luck! The "rules for thee and not for me" party is running a candidate just for you!
also yeah the misogyny and general bullshit reeks from that account
In fact, my sister actually did turn 15 in 1982 and she was way cooler than this guy. That's what happens when you get over it.
It always showed up in my feed and was pretty Rogan-esque.
But Wikipedia seems to indicate otherwise!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Motorists_Association?wprov=sfla1
Shameful what is happening in this country