Hey, so it turns out that paper on black plastic was a bit blown out of proportion by a simple math error.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/black-plastic
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/black-plastic
Comments
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2024/12/13/how-a-simple-math-error-sparked-a-panic-about-black-plastic-kitchen-utensils/
The original paper:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653524022173?via%3Dihub
Now for the 1000s of other exposures, like plastic films in microwave meals...
You don't have to be a stickler or good at math to quickly see 10*7000 = 70,000 - so 42,000 #fail. When did they stop teaching *short-cut math*?
Then again, I'd never trust a paper written by an advocacy group, especially one named Toxic-Free Future.
As far as the other, plastic dust in your house from electronics is a significant source of similar contamination, so it’s all a matter of degree.
I really appreciate that guy tracking down the sources and doing the reading .
Or you can switch out your pans to uncoated steel and enamel I guess...
If it says nonstick coating, it's dangerous.
It's hard and slower, but I have enough anxiety to add weird panic to the mix.
“The levels of flame retardants that we found in black plastic household items are still of high concern, and our recommendations remain the same.”
However, the article title goes against the advice given by the scientists.
Assuming black plastic is worth avoiding, what is the alternative and have we checked the alternatives for similarly harmful chemicals?
this is the recommendation of the researchers stated in the article, their recommendation did not change despite the math error.
[Gives my favorite spatula the side eye]
Love the follow-up, but it didn't do anything to help my procrastination. 🙃
Eventually.
Pedantry can be a source of humor, and people say things without point all the time.
Or marketing is confused for science.
Or just an overall misunderstanding of science (classic example is how the "theory" of gravity is turned into a joke by laypeople who don't understand different terminology)
Media does everyone, including their profession, a disservice whenever they promote a non-truth as real. Society requires trustworthy info. News Media is supposed to provide that. They don't do so reliably, and our society is thereby sickened.
-people barely grasp its most objective/basic concepts
-good news+real progress are bland/slow/boring
-even important, cutting-edge stuff only gets clicks w/ hyperbole
-corrections/clarifications/debunkings get 10% the reach of sensationalism
Seriously, tho. If the DDT and chemical additives in my childhood foods didn’t get me by now, a little plastic isn’t going to do me in.
"it is important to note that this does not impact our results....The levels of flame retardants that we found in black plastic household items are still of high concern, and our recommendations remain the same."
1/2
You don't get to be off by an order of magnitude and say nothing's changed!
2/2
Just from a lot further away.
https://toxicfreefuture.org/update-study-correction-does-not-impact-conclusion/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653524022173?via%3Dihub#:~:text=kg%20bw/day%20(-,42%2C000%C2%A0ng/day,-for%20a%2060
National Post is a Canadian newspaper.
The author fails to realize the real point: if you can’t multiply 7x60=420, why should we trust your more complicated calculations?
Not saying this story is wrong in particular, but just to fact check stuff they write.
Black plastic - best plastic. Teflon isnt toxic in the amounts found in a single pan
Black plastic is not teflon.
If you're buying new, go for bamboo or silicon depending on whether you use a dishwasher, as the glued bamboo ones tend to lose cohesion.
On November 26, 2024, the study authors submitted a correction to the journal. The journal published this correction on December 15, 2024.
Yes, I would prefer to know if the amount I am ingesting is safe for me because of what we know about the human body.
Oh, well, I already dumped all my plastic and have a nice, reasonably-priced set of silicone everything.
And they clean up much easier!
Sometimes I miss it though when the other two are in the wash and I need a spoon.
Meanwhile, wooden kitchen utensils are *right there* … in the same place they’ve been for 10,000 years.
What did their peers review, punctuation?
They should have taken their lumps and just rescinded the study.
In the article, way down there:
"...the study’s hypothesis is correct..."
But, no, I think there's a very real and not hidden profit motive behind petro-chemical manufacturing and lots of vested interest in the status quo.
This news didn't bother you to the point of not getting on with your life, did it?!
It’s not my first day at the rodeo and you see better when the dust settles.
As Gelman points out, if they had discovered their risk estimate was an order of magnitude too small I'm sure they would have thought that important!
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2024/12/13/how-a-simple-math-error-sparked-a-panic-about-black-plastic-kitchen-utensils/
My main point is that 1) That stuff is still bad, 2) The Nat Post is known to push stories that help the corporate agenda over people's well being.
Too little iron means that you're not eating enough meat; Too high iron levels mean that you're eating too many leafy greens
OR
They make it up as they go along 2/2
wait a sec lemme reread that. "that helped covid kill" -- oh. oh no. ooooooh no.
why are we using plastic to cook food? I would think plastic has a higher chance of melting or breaking off?
I use metal or wood for my cooking. & b4 you say anti-stick pots (ptfe/pfas), pretty sure that's more of a health risk than plastic (use cast iron)
So if you want to go that route, please learn to take care of it properly.
Just surprised that people use the plastic cookware still.
I just don't risk those pans for personal preference but yes they can be safe if used properly.
Also a well season cast iron pan is basically perfection. use it like a mirror 😂
plastic doesn't have the same diffusion process going on iirc.
The price I sorta understand, but you'll be spending more in a lifetime replacing plastic than replacing a metal utensil.
(Narrator: that's 15 kg too low for women and over 30 kg too low for men.)
Every cloud and all that....
All the same really, the black plastic ones I have were getting pretty worn out anyway.
I do wonder when we’ll find out that the silicone is bad too.
Sooner or later we'll find out that air and water will kill us too lol
Even though the number has gone from 80% of an unsafe dose to 8% of an unsafe dose, it's still not a great number.
😂
I assure you the difference between 80% and 8% changes the results.
(I should add that my GPA was far from 4.0)
Could forks, knives, and spoons be made without handles? I wonder...
If the spork was our next culinary invention, then what next? How can we innovate?
Does not it take turning around?
🙃
The original published paper contained an error in comparing the estimated exposure of one flame retardant to the U.S. EPA reference dose.
How do you think the next four years will be?
If you know of five replaceable things that are somewhat bad for you, why not remove the exposure to them?
In addition to the order of magnitude math error, the exposure levels they used were based on new utensils, and chemical leaching decreases with use. It was also based on using the plastic for deep frying. Which, really?
black plastic implements destined for your favourite box store?