received a good reminder of the fact that this country contains multitudes when i met a 70-something year-old blue collar white man who insisted to me that january 6 was worse than 9/11
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Like honestly if I got all my 70+ uncles in a room and asked them which was worse, at least one of them would probably say that. But they would also be like “weird question”. They definitely would not meet someone and be like “so here’s my ranking”.
I love that most responses here are about how right/wrong he was, rather than the fact fact that a 70 yo white blue collar dude is not a fucking idiot-asshole. Kids today, amirite.
Different sides of a coin. Both were traumatic for different reasons but outside of terror (foreign vs. domestic) I think of them as two very different dark days.
The aftermath of the latter has been worse for me though & I’m SA Am & live in TX so post 9/11 was bad enough.
OBL killed 2,977, Trump's covid negligence and misinformation leading to activate denials killed hundreds of thousands who wouldn't have otherwise died
One could argue that the lethal wound to our country, the one that still might end up killing this democratic experiment, was the failure to punish Trump for Jan 6th, followed up by the supreme court's immunity bullshit.
I don't think there is any American nightmares in recent times that can be compared to 9/11. It has no party affiliation and in my opinion shouldn't be compared in any way.
Trump's inept COVID response killed a couple of orders of magnitude more Americans than Bin Laden did, and unlike Bin Laden, who was cheered on by virtually zero Americans, Trump has 30% of the country literally worshipping him ahead of their own God.
i don’t think that’s even accurate. 9/11 brought us the war on terror and two real wars, the patriot act, homeland security, torture, mass surveillance, two terms of bush, it was pretty bad outside of the life lost too.
I was collecting signatures for a friend running for School Committee and came across a guy I was sure was a Trump supporter. But I did my spiel anyway. He paused and said “Is she for banning books & shit?” I said no. He signed, adding “I thought this was a free fucking country.” Multitudes indeed.
That’s difficult to judge.
From a “loss of life” angle, 9/11 was WAY worse. From a “critical crack in the crumbling wall of our democracy” it’s 01/06. And it’s a toss up when it comes to vultures profiting off it.
Huh. No, okay, it has to go to 9/11.
Nobody who did 9/11 posted it on FB.
From a certain perspective, i.e. the harm to the core beliefs of the nation, 1/6 was INFINITELY worse than 9/11. For all the horror, the nation pulled together on 9/11, for better or worse. 1/6... Tore us apart.
I think 9/11 indirectly brought us to 1/6.
Our culture was upended on 9/11. Paranoia - War - Jingoism - Islamophobia - Hope crushed. Even 8 years of Obama made many *even more* racist. Trump blew in, torched our whole system and was cheered for it. Convinced violent people that everything sucks. 1/6
Reminds me of the couple of white retirees in my hometown I overheard talking at a restaurant who started their conversation griping about gender in the schools, then went into a long passionate discussion about the war in Ukraine and how Putin is a modern Hitler who must be defeated.
I talk to a loooot of people about Ukraine and there are many many right wing supporters. They're sociopaths in every other way, and I sure as fuck don't tell them I'm trans, but they passionately support Ukraine. It's brain-breaking for me.
it's genuinely the only issue out there that isn't purely partisan. Those on the left think it is, but it's definitely not. Tons and tons of Trump voters just fucking love Ukraine. And fine, whatever, I will hold my nose.
The events of January 6 may have had far-reaching significance for him. Conversations like these help us better understand the perspectives of people in different contexts and remind us to listen to each other's stories and feelings. Respect and understanding are key to fostering communication
9/11 obviously ended and disrupted more lives. But in terms of long term damage to the fabric of the country, Jan 6 did more damage, and depending on how things shake out it may not end up being close.
The spasm of Islamophobia and lust for indiscriminate vengeance engendered by 9/11 consumed many Americans for years afterward, and are still reverberating in our policies.
The silver lining is it made Trump less palatable to a lot of people who might otherwise have been willing to memory-hole a lot of horrible shit he did and vote for him again. But yeah the feeling that your neighbors would vote for that kind of destruction is scary and destabilizing.
I'm a 70 something pink collar white woman & I think I agree with him to point. But the point I diverge is that the aftermath of 9/11 set us up for 1/6.
As a blue collar woman who grew up in NYS and lived in NYC on 9/11- I'm far from alone, here- 11/9/16 was worse and 1/6/21 was the culmination of all the destruction that psychopath caused in his wake.
🤷🏼♂️ We thought he'd either get us all killed or try to kill us
I met a guy at the polls in September who was still registered as a Republican because he had voted for Nikki Haley in the presidential primary, but also was complimentary of Elizabeth Gurley Flynn for starting CPUSA
Trump's attack on the U.S. Capitol reminded me of America's Reichstag on fire moment. 🔥Jack Smith recently unsealed his report in its gory detail. Imagine if Trump had succeeded in dissolving Congress. There are reasons the Founders' set up co-equal branches.
Worse in which way?
Obviously 9/11 was worse in terms of deaths / damage.
Jan 6 is more dangerous for the country and it was committed by insiders. In that way it was worse.
Jan 6 was an attempt to destroy the country.
9/11 was an attack that as bad as it was had no chance to destroy the country
I mean I guess I would make it more clear.
As someone who was standing across the street when the towers came down I don’t take minimizing 9/11 lightly.
One was a terrorist attack that caused massive suffering and the other one was a declaration that you can attempt to end the project of being able to elect leaders and not be held accountable leading to no penalties in trying.
Hard to say that the surveillance state wasn’t a permanent scar from 9/11 but now we just challenge every election and our very reality is no longer shared.
I doubt he was minimizing it. January 6th was more of an existential threat to the country than 9/11; taking it seriously doesn't mean thinking 9/11 wasn't also horrific and traumatic.
For insight look to historical coups and loss of life. In China during the revolution, millions of people died. That is the difference. It could happen here. It will happen if the GOP suspends the Constitution.
I wasn’t interpreting it as minimizing 9/11. But the thought that Jan 6th is worse for the country than 9/11 is a powerful statement and there’s strong case for Jan 6 being worse.
9/11 was the Beginning of the End of the US's power as the Dominant Political Entity of the World, it was the Start of the Long Slow decline we've been in, just as the Start of World War 2 was for the British Empire, the US's Century has been over for 24 years
As someone who was at the Capitol on 9/11 and thought he was going to die a few days later while being evacuated and then had good odds to have died from anthrax and then saw 1/6 just a mile from my home, that old man can go straight to hell. Guarantee he’s never done a damn thing ever for anyone.
He's right in one sense but don't underestimate how 9/11 supercharged the GOP on the path that led to Trump and all the stuff we're seeing now, where citizens are expected to snitch on each other at all times and anyone who is deemed an "outsider" is violently persecuted by the state in various ways
Which is worse, an attack on the US from outside or from within? I'd venture to say the the latter. Worse yet? Thus far no repurcussions. Jan 6 was very bad for so many reasons.
9/11 did that, too. It wasn’t a one-day event we could move past when the dust cleared. I don’t think it can be separated from the Patriot Act. (And the Office of Homeland Security started taking rights away Oct 8, though it wasn’t a “department” until 2003.)
9/11 didn’t set us down a dark path. The way our asshole leaders chose to respond to it did. They used the dead to excuse their worst actions, desecrating and dishonoring their memory for two goddamned decades. Better people would have chosen not to chant “USA” while torturing and killing thousands.
In terms of a threat to democracy, it was worse because it came from within. I'm teens of death and destruction and damage to civil liberties and the international order, of course not.
Sure. Going a step more conceptual: 9/11 targeted commerce/pride, then military command to strike at our confidence and sense of stability: terror. j6 struck at govt to overthrow it, constituting internal coup. Goal was immediate: power.
In how much damage to democracy tgey caused, I would call them about the same – but in human suffering caused both directly and in the aftermath, I can't imagine thinking J6 was worse than 9/11.
In terms of damage to The United States, it was worse and it’s not close. 9/11 was a disaster that punctured the self regard of the nation. 1/6 made us question our existence *as* a nation.
9/11/01 put us on the path to 1/6/21. Would we be where we are now if the GOP hadn’t tarred anyone who questioned Bush’s GWOT as a traitor and hailed those who supported him as “Real Americans”?
During the Salena Zito heyday of pro-Trump gas station conversations, I was at a gas station this 80ish white guy started a gas prices conversation. I thought oh no, but he veered into a rant about how Trump was dangerously racist.
Those convos, where you're certain things are going to go a specific path so start to brace then you're pleasently surprised with the actual destination, give me whiplash.
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By the time I’m 70 I’ll still be blabbering my opinions. Put my old ass in front of a writer and I’ll sing
The aftermath of the latter has been worse for me though & I’m SA Am & live in TX so post 9/11 was bad enough.
9/11 just horrific.
Jan 6th. Terrifying that a US President could do this to all 133 million US citizens and attempt to destroy the whole country.
I could not believe what I was watching, I felt really sorry for the good US people.
133 million seems like a plausible number for registered voters maybe though
From a “loss of life” angle, 9/11 was WAY worse. From a “critical crack in the crumbling wall of our democracy” it’s 01/06. And it’s a toss up when it comes to vultures profiting off it.
Huh. No, okay, it has to go to 9/11.
Nobody who did 9/11 posted it on FB.
And that is a wound hard to stitch back together.
…and in some ways, it is STILL jan 6
Our culture was upended on 9/11. Paranoia - War - Jingoism - Islamophobia - Hope crushed. Even 8 years of Obama made many *even more* racist. Trump blew in, torched our whole system and was cheered for it. Convinced violent people that everything sucks. 1/6
Like, give us one more sentence in which you expand on that with context, 70-something blue-collar white man
🤷🏼♂️ We thought he'd either get us all killed or try to kill us
Good thing he sucked at his job
Course I also don’t think 9/11 and J6 are completely unrelated in the grand butterfly-effect scheme of things
Yes you are correct that it’s very interesting that some 70 white men actually have the correct understanding of how bad Jan 6th was.
That’s hopeful
Obviously 9/11 was worse in terms of deaths / damage.
Jan 6 is more dangerous for the country and it was committed by insiders. In that way it was worse.
Jan 6 was an attempt to destroy the country.
9/11 was an attack that as bad as it was had no chance to destroy the country
As someone who was standing across the street when the towers came down I don’t take minimizing 9/11 lightly.
Yeah, I wasn't arguing that he was right, I was asking if that's what he meant