"The vaccination has stuff we don't trust," said the father of the 6-year-old girl who died from measles at the end of last month. Tom Bartlett visited with a family confronting an unthinkable tragedy:
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Chances are he’s a decent man. Ignorant and kept that way by churches and politicians that want his money and vote.This is the fruit of propaganda and demagoguery.It’s kept him ignorant and fearful and even with a dead child he trusts that it was the will of god, doesn’t recognize his own ignorance
I have no sympathy for these people, only the children they murder. Because even though we are in the 21st century, we have people making decisions for others while being stuck in the 18th century.
if the decision only impacted them, it would be one thing, but their kids could infect others, including those who are immunocompromised and cannot be vaccinated
“Stuff we don’t trust”. What was he afraid of? That the “stuff” would kill her? Well congratulations. That’s exactly what you got. And this sick bastard seems more worried about protecting his worldview than he does mourning his own child. Disgusting.
Christianity and all religion is evil! It's evil to fill the brains of children with religion that divides us, teaches us we are different, and imprisons the young mind in a complete lie, a fallacy! But to kill your child, as they did, in the name of Christianity, should result in a murderer charge!
Their religion doesn't prohibit vaccination. Did you read the article? "Mennonite doctrine does not prohibit inoculations or modern medicine in general..."
Not the place for wholesale religion-bashing. The problem here is willful ignorance permeating a sizable community. Furthermore... ➡️
Mennonites are traditionally apolitical. They're in the "in but not of the world" school. Their various factions span the spectrum when they do consider political issues. You really cannot blame this on their religion, or religion in general.
So unthinkable now means the exact thing they were told was likely to happen. It's extremely sad for the child but the parents are just denying that they are directly responsible for the death.
I grew up Mennonite in Seminole, and reading this is surreal. The whole situation is messed up. The Mennonite community there is really susceptible to misinformation, and the Trump era has completely warped everyone's minds.
Many Mennonite children older than around 10 or 12 were vaccinated without second thought. I was. Being explicitly anti-vax is relatively new here but is now extremely commonplace, especially among young mothers.
It's largely driven by the same Facebook-Instagram-Youtube-do-your-own-research misinformation as it is everywhere else, then it spreads via Whatsapp and word-of-mouth to the more conservative and insular Mennonites groups.
Many of these people truly and deeply believe that they are doing what is best for their children. Which is no excuse in the end, but it's just frustrating for me to see how far gone many of them are in their distrust of vaccines.
As an example of the effect mainstream conservative politics has had on them, at the very very beginning of the pandemic Mennonite ladies banded together to sew and distribute masks. My mom mailed me some. It was heartwarming.
TBF, it does take money to pay reporters, so they can eat & buy gas & stuff, too. But in this case, the Atlantic offers a free trial if you’re not yet ready to commit.
😊
More like he deliberately murdered his family because of he was throwing a childish temper tantrum. Evil assholes like this are a threat to society. He definitely doesn't even care that he murdered his daughter.Perhaps he worships Moloch as well as his god Trump?
I feel the same way you do, but it really is worth a read. It won't change your mind on anything but will show you how these people (religious groups) process information and make decisions.
Yup. That is the story. Her story is she was born to low information parents scared into avoiding vaccines by grifting politicians and influencers who ended up killing her through ignorance and misinformation.
While I do broadly agree with your point, beware the non-automatic correlation between pseudoscience and lack of education.
German Waldorf schools, for instance, cater to well-educated parents who, mostly, are ardent anti-vaxxers. And they are recurring hotbeds of infectious disease outbreaks.
Sorry if this sounds out of place – you're referring to a specific case from a US context – but I think it's important to keep in mind that obscurantism is by no means exclusive to those with low formal education or without access to information.
That poor child who should have had her parents doing everything to save her… died needlessly. We failed you sweet girl. Those parents should be tried for murder. Lock them up…
“We didn’t fail” that child, her parents, Trump, RFK jr, Project 2025 people, MAGA members failed her that caused child to die of measles a disease that has been under controlled for 100 years. I hope the child’s parents’ conscience haunts them for the rest of their hypocritical lives !
Yes a fail, but the rest of 🇺🇸should NOT be included in the cause of a little girl being dead from measles which has been under control for 100ys. Put the blame & responsibility solely on those truly responsible for that tragic suffering and ultimately dead child. If you want 2 feel guilty, go ahead
Seriously @theatlantic.com, this is a fair point to make right now. Scientifically grounded medicine supports gender-affirming care for minors and more nations are coming to the same conclusion while criticizing the lack of science in the Cass Report.
“Vaccines have stuff in em that we don’t trust. But when our kid got really sick from a preventable illness we trusted the doctors to try and save her.”
Exactly. They’ll take ivermectin like it’s the cure all for everything. Got an infected wound? Colloidal silver is what ya need? Gotta tumor? Ivermectin AND colloidal silver.
Chemo and antibiotics? ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME!!????!!!!
I don’t believe free speech should include the right to misinform the public (willfully or otherwise) and consequently jeopardize public health. Those who generate and spread the conspiracy theories that lead to tragedies like this should be criminally liable.
If the courts can intervene in cases of a minor where parents object to health ground due to religious beliefs, then they should intervene in cases where there are outbreaks of viruses that affect a minor.
If a parent fails in the interest of a child health need, then restrict that right.
I can’t read the article. Unfortunately, thousands of people refused to get vaccinate for COVID and died. If that didn’t wake them up, the death of one child won’t either
Especially not in a country that allows children to be shot in caged hunts inside classrooms, then does nothing about it. The stupid in this country is out of control.
These people are willing to sacrifice their own children on the altar of the disinformation they believe in. Their faith in disinformation and lies is greater than their love for their children.
His child died, but at least he didn't bend on his beliefs. It's absolutely criminal.
It doesn't even make sense by their own stupid ignorant standards. Do they trust the measles virus? Do they even understand it? Could they even define what a virus is? For god's sake people, stop the fucking lunacy.
What a miserable piece of shit this guy is. "I don't know what's in the vaccine, so I'm going to let my child die and that'll own the libs too" he should be in prison for murder
Have you ever read a package insert for a vaccine? Do you understand that you sign paperwork, before giving children vaccines, stating that there are potential side effects even including death? Do you know the gov has a slush fund for vaccine injured? Try being informed & understanding.
Apparently not a "tragedy" to these stupid fucks? It's like "so what I was stupid and killed me daughter"? The father should be tried for "negligent homicide".
Their phony piousness is one of the evils destroying America. On par with their hatred, fear and envy because they desperately need to blame others for their failures in life,
That's right. You don't have to take accountability for any of your actions. My BIL used to tell me you don't get into heaven from actions. You simply believe in god and do whatever you feel, ask for forgiveness and boom, you're in!
It's such an incredibly stupid take. Because, also, what about vaccines? God created smart people who created those. I just have no empathy for that parent because he CHOSE death for his child. This is his fault, not God's.
There are no gods. Some people are just stupid enough to think there are. Gods have been a societal control mechanism for as long as humans have walked the earth. Without a shred of actual evidence.
This is largely an American problem. In virtually no other western country would one side of an argument like this be saying the death was god’s will, and many of the ‘pro-science’ people, arguing that we should use the doctors etc ‘god given’ talents!
During Covid we had some non-mask wearers. When asked why it was the religious angle ‘it’s God’s will’, the quasi mystical ‘we have secret knowledge’ or of course ‘freedom to choose’ - no sense of community just nonsense.
Yes I’m in Canada and I got my kid all of his vaccines earlier on and before he started pre school I contacted public health and asked if he had all he needed. I’m an idiot at most parts of life but that was important enough to pick up the phone lol
Why are people content with serving a god who kills children? Oh, it's God's will. Tithe more and maybe you will receive favor?
Children die disproportionately all around the world due to choices of adults, not god.
Take responsibility for your choice not to vaccinate. My fear would be for the other children that got infected as a result of the choice not to vaccinate (I wonder if they isolated her after symptoms appeared).
So God is either not all powerful or he’s a sadist. Let’s go with there is no god and adult for once. Enough with the superstitious nonsense. Put the parents in jail.
It's sad that when someone like me speaks up about deity worship and religion so many others, even atheists, get upset asking what harm is in people believing in deities and following religions.
This is a perfect example of the harm of the cult of religion. His child died and he clings to the
I came to say almost the same.
The moment I read about “God’s will” I stopped feeling bad for
Peter.
I have no sympathy for this stuff anymore.
He should be charged in connection with the death just like parents who won’t give their dead kids insulin have been.
The cognitive dissonance of "no vaccine b/c it has stuff we don't trust" and "measles killed our daughter but it was God's will".
If she died from the vaccine, wouldn't it be God's will too? If it wasn't his will for her to die from the vax, wldn't he protect her from anything in it?
I’m reminded of the joke with the guy on his roof during a flood. Many people try to save him, and once he dies, he asks god why he didn’t save him. And god explains all the people he sent to save him. Same with vaccines.
I was going to quote that one!
First God provided a truck, then God provided a boat, then, finally God provides him with a helicopter. The man refused all three saying "The Lord will provide".
“The vaccination has stuff we don’t trust” … So the diarrhea, stomach pain, vomiting, sore throat,
muscle pain his daughter had to go through until she passed away was better? Making her suffer was better? To him that was worth it⁉️
Peter belongs in prison for letting his daughter die. I'd do ANYTHING to get my 20yo daughter back and this useless motherfucker was blessed with a daughter and then killed her. Fuck him, fuck his church, fuck his heathen "God", and fuck Tom.Bartlett for trying to make this murderer sympathetic
I don’t think he was trying to make the father a sympathetic character. It was a quick interview to hear his perspective and the overall gist is that his perspective on vaccines is shared by an ever increasing number of people.
These antivaxxers cause pregnancy loss and health issues for the precious unborn babies they claim to care so much about. My unborn baby was stillborn at 34 weeks. I’m vaccinated but she had no protection from this serious, highly contagious disease. I’d give anything to have watched her grow up.
Sorry but they can’t be saved. They are basically celebrating the death of a daughter to own the rationalists. FFS - cast them adrift before they can take everyone else down with them.
Your child’s life vs. “stuff we don’t trust”. I choose a child’s life every time. So should you; get your children vaccinated to protect them from preventable diseases and loss of life🤷🏻♂️
I'm fine w/anti-vaxx moron's passing on vaccines for themselves & their kids. If they'd rather believe a scientifically illiterate, conspiracy theorist who admitted a worm ate half his brain, so be it. "Thinning the herd" works for me.
No modern medicine either, only bloodletting & leeches for you!
But they all run to the hospital the minute things go tits up. This child died in the hospital after they refused to accept medical science about vaccines. There is no hell hot enough for these hypocrites.
Of course they do. I'm willing to bet if Felon 47 or SpongeBob WormBrain told the gullible fools that tobacco is a cure for cancer, the idiots take up smoking or chewing.
Why? I believe in science and vaccines are effective. I'm not the one putting anyone at risk. Nor is it my job to babysit other parents who choose to put their own kids at risk.
Bet you believe that abortion should be kept between a woman and her doctor, right?
My point being that pro-choice advocates say "my body, my choice" and "abortion is a decision between a woman and a doctor" yet, when it comes to anti-vaxx stupidity from the right, all of a sudden I have to stick my nose in their private decisions?
Trump got the Covid vaccine the second he could. I just keep repeating that to everyone. That and research, like actual historical research, the diseases you are playing with. We didn’t creat vaccines for shits and goggles. There’s a reason older cemeteries have large sections with tiny graves.
Yes, and we had, at the time, tons of people who opposed Trump saying they'd NEVER take the vaccine "he" produced - the same vaccine that Biden later promoted, and Trump supporters then suddenly scorned.
It's not necessary to politicize every thing in life.
I understand the anger and vitriol, my blood also runs hot reading this story, but what would a manslaughter charge accomplish at this stage? Say they get 15-20 years inside, what does that achieve? Do you expect them to be rehabilitated in some way or do you just want retribution? Genuine question.
I can see an argument for the deterrent angle but you can only deter people that aren't desperate and scared. Most anti-vaxxers in my experience are scared of vaccines and what they have come to represent due to manipulating grifers. A potential prison sentence ain't gonna deter them.
Exactly. Parents aren’t not vaccinating kids because they want them to get sick and die - they’re misinformed and scared that vaccines are harmful. Ultimately they’re trying to do what they think is the right thing, but misinformation, lack of education and other barriers lead to the exact opposite
I think it's part of a wider problem with how we conceptualise prison as just being a punishment. It should be a place for therapy, education, rehabilitation, hell even a jobs programme, not prison labour, a job once outside prison. It should be about helping people, not just punishing them.
Totally agree. Prison in its current form isn’t about making people (or communities) better, it’s about a lot of things (money/politics/society’s barely concealed lust for retribution), but certainly not that. If it were, everything you listed would be the norm (& research shows it’s effective!!)
That's what research on your own is for -- why would you just take RFK Jr's conspiracy theory as the truth! His own family said not to believe him or his conspiracy theories. This father thought he knew better because he believed RFK Jr. over RFK Jr's family who knew him all his life. He's guilty.
They’re making a choice that the FALSE chance of autism is worse than the ACTUAL chance their child could catch this disease and die. And their choices also effect others—immunocompromised, people who legitimately cannot be vaccinated, babies too young for vaccines, etc. I have no sympathy for them.
I mean yeah, but my point isn’t about arguing for sympathy, it’s about understanding the reasons people make these decisions, which is important to counteracting those reasons where possible
This might be a reason for some/play a part in decision making for others, but in any event it’s an oversimplification. Anti-vaccine sentiment has been gaining traction globally since the 90s (well before ‘woke-ism’). Unfortunately not a new thing, but a thing that has grown and developed over time
Some parents are indeed scared. Often this is because vaccination isn't full explained to them and they fear the worst. They need all the information. In this case the girl also needed proper hospital treatment.
I can see an argument for the deterrent angle but you can only deter people that aren't desperate and scared. Most anti-vaxxers in my experience are scared of vaccines and what they have come to represent due to manipulating grifers. A potential prison sentence ain't gonna deter them.
Then how do you deter them? Outreach and education just leads outright hostility from these people. This little girl, who had no say in the matter, is dead because of her parents.
That's the million dollar question isn't it? I don't know, all I do know is trying to make an example of them will, if anything, only further entrench true believers, only serve to reinforce and embolden. I don't know the solution, and fuck me more than most anything I wish I did.
I totally agree that it will further entrench them but I think pretty much anything will but that doesn’t mean that nothing should be done. Something should be done, otherwise more innocent kids are going to die
One would hope the headline would be convincing enough. But, again, what does a prison sentence actually achieve? What change do you expect it to elicit within, let's say as you identified, anti-vaxx MAGA folks? I would wager they become a noble martyr and it only further entrenches opinions.
As the old joke goes,”bend over and kiss your children’s asses goodbye”.
Or something to that effect. Matters not to me. Chump wants old, poor to suffer and die. Who knew he was after all the kids too?🤷♀️
Let this tragedy not going in vine. Parents if you children not vaccinated need to do so. There is no treatment if your child contact measles. Only dead!!!
The dad didn't seem to consider that God ALSO created the scientists who invented vaccines and the medical staff--including doctors & nurses who treat kids with diseases that vaccines prevent.
In his world, a dead child is a small price to pay to the antivax gods.
I couldn’t access the entire article but I’m guessing he might have other children. By not explaining his responsibility to him and bursting his bubble those children are at risk too.
It's like that joke/parable of the guy who confronts god after drowning and gets the reply "I sent you the meteorologists, the boat and the helicopter, what more do you want from me"
There is no end to the ignorance. The MMR vaccine has been safe and effective since the early 70s. We’ve had decades to study it. This is parental neglect.
I totally agree that this should be parental neglect and we need to reinstate vaccine mandates, and charge parents who don't vaccinate their kids with child neglect.
Exceptions of course for genuine medical necessities not to vaccinate but those are so exceedingly rare.
The father probably survived measles as a child and has natural immunity, unfortunately, who then went on to breed. It makes me wonder if he ever got the polio or smallpox vaccines in his childhood. Guaranteed, under RFK Jr who is a nutty as Dr Wakefield, America will see cases of polio again.
The Americans in this part of of the bible belt are militantly anti-vaxx and ass backwards. the father may have been unvaccinated and survived. The vaccine has a 97% efficacy rate and it would be irresponsible of any parent in the 21st century to no vaccinate their children.
The next headline I want to read is "Father Charged for Murder in the Death of his Own Daughter". At the very least, that's child abuse.
"things we don't trust" BULLSHIT, you eat fast food full of KNOW GARBAGE.
Jezzzus, reading this sounds like an anthropological study on the most primitive cultures on the planet, but without the benefit of having the knowledge of their environment for medicinal purposes.
We don’t know what goes into the vaccine so we don’t trust it. Now give me that bag of Doritos and Red Bull because I know and trust all the ingredients in a Red Bull. What a bunch of tools.
Oh no! He is not blaming god, he is accepting god’s will. Which is different and even worse because he is not going to learn from what happened and become an advocate for vaccines.
Right! As soon as I read that, I thought...well then God also created the person or people who created the measles vaccine so children don't have to die! Sadly, they'll never see it that way. 😞💔
Knew it would be one of those "God needed another angel" types. I wonder if he's sad at all, or if it's awesome for him, like he finally gets to live in a country music song. They all have this weird fetish for tragedy.
If he believes that everything is God's will, he'd also have to believe that it would be God's will that we strive to use our incredible God-given brains to discover the wonders of science and invent vaccines, to protect children and ourselves & live healthier lives?
If he believes in God so much, why doesn't he recognize that his god created someone smart enough to create a vaccine to prevent this disease from killing people. These people are truly disgusting, ignorant, and dangerous.
i wonder why did he bring her to the hospital then. if it's gods will to make someone sick we shouldn't try to cure them right? why are vaccines bad but going to the hospital is fine??
It’s the same story as the guy stuck on a raft in the ocean, passing up help from a boat because God will save him.
Twisted thinking cannot come to rational conclusions.
I knew that would come next. These people would sacrifice their own children and have sacrificed their own children because of God. It's the same as killing her himself.
It's always God's will when it happens to someone else but when the person that says something like this has a medical emergency they want absolutely everything possible to keep them alive.
It's like the Orange Turd's reasoning. God made the bullet just graze his ear (aye, right).
Why didn't God strike the assassin down before he fired, or make the bullet U-turn in mid air and strike him?
Or save the innocent bystander.
Too much bollocks.
I grew up fairly conservative Christian but one of my favorite pieces of advice I received was "God gave us a brain so we should use it". If you believe God created the disease then he also created the scientists who came up with the vaccine to stop the disease. Why is death always God's will?
I wonder where “God helps those who help themselves” fits into this. God made me nearly blind, but easily fixed with glasses/contacts I wear. Am I defying God’s will, or am I helping myself as God intended?
What gets me is they’re not Christian scientists. I think it’s still an argument with them with a child’s life at stake, but at least there’s a consistent religious argument. But these, they’re very selective about what they consider God’s will, & someone needs to call them out on that.
If you are so mentally fried by fucking Facebook memes with a crucifix in the background that you allow your own child to die, you should be fertiliser for the vegetable patch in a prison.
My favorite piece of advice I got when I was being brought up in conservative evangelicalism was "God gave us a brain so we might as well use it". I don't know why that thinking has gone away in the church.
Didn't God gave us the ability to create vaccines to help protect us? Why would God allow vaccines otherwise? That poor girl. I suppose he has to rationalize it, otherwise he has blood on his hands.
Peter will have to answer to God for the death of his daughter too & my guess is, it won't be favorable if this is what he thinks. He is negligent. Nothing to do with God. 🙄😒 God gave us Dr.'s, scientists & vaccines. 🙏❤️
and then — 'the father' who believes in, and acts on all of the disinformation/misinformation/propaganda about measles and vaccines, then tries to pin blame on the hospital — “They just say ‘go home.’ They don’t want to help us. They say it’s just normal, go home.” —
So why are they so worried about immigrants potentially committing crimes — wouldn’t that be “God’s Will” too? Why do they think they can pick and choose?
I can’t read this because of the paywall, but I wish the reporter would have asked if it could possibly be “god’s will” for someone to have created the vaccine so as to save children from this fate? Why do they never think this way?
Heartbreaking and maddening story to read through. Unfortunately for many of the Mennonite religion they still have an old world viewpoint. Like the kind in the era of the Oregon trail where families were 20 members big and if only half the members die out they are the fortunate groups.
He doesn't trust vaccines, but trusts the gas in their car, the heating oil for their home, the multitudes of potentially harmful chemicals in everything in their lives.
This kind of risk assessment baffles me.
That's how my Christian friends think, anyway. Their prayers give thanks for doctors and nurses, and express hope that the operations and medicines work.
Exactly! This is what infuriates me so about Christian Scientists. How could it not occur to them that God granted us inquiring minds and a planet full of ingredients with which to answer their prayers for healing?
Yes, and it is how God separated us from the animals. I always counter that type of thinking with the idea that God gave humans the ability to understand our natural world. Science, therefore, is a gift from God. Without it we would still be peeing in the woods.
As the US government seems to be abandoning germ theory altogether, it is ironically headed by someone who has his desk disinfected after a child wiped its nose-picking onto it.
I was able to go to the Gift Links/Gift Articles tab at the top of the Bluesky app (I view on a PC) and scrolled down to find a gift article. Hope it works for you.
Because they're rationalizing how they weren't the reason why their daughter died. Because the thought of being the reason their daughter died is not something they want explore.
There's an old joke about a guy escaping a flood by climbing up on his roof. With the waters rising, a boat, then a helicopter appear but he declines help because he's waiting for a sign from god. Finally, he drowns and at the pearly gates he asks, "why didn't god save me?"
I don’t understand that lack of follow up, unless they just want to report what is and not write the narrative. My come back is that human knowledge understanding is a gift from God. And given solely to humans.
Completely agree! I have said this so many times.. God did give us all a brain and the ability to solve problems. Why is it hard to believe that perhaps God did this so we can help ourselves? I'm curious if this person ever subjected themselves to any surgical procedure.
I was raised Christian (LDS) and raised to believe that God created man with intelligent brains to create things like vaccines and other scientific innovations to help others. I don’t understand why science and religion have to be at odds.
Catholicism is the same. The doctrine is that God created the world and science is how He did it. Many of the early scientists were in the clergy, and our current pope has a Chemical Technician degree.
I just don't understand religious sciencephobes either as a result.
I was also raised to believe that God created us with intelligent brains to create things like vaccines and other scientific innovations to help others.
That's also why I never believed science and religion have to be at odds.
Even less extreme versions of religion require the belief in things that evidence indicates is impossible (virgin birth in humans, for example), so the two are inherently at odds
Yeah, folks taking old ass text (the Bible, etc) that’s been translated throughout time that folks take 100% literally & straight out deny the evidence that is physically in front of them.
I get what you’re saying & agree. Like, my personal opinion is that I don’t think they need to be at odds, sucks that so many active Christian’s believe they need to be.
Shit doesn’t need to be this way and it sucks we’re here.
Turns out it’s not really about religion/god and all about using gods name in vain to control others all to hoard wealth and power.
The doctrine I was raised with was socialistic and community oriented. It’s a real shame to see so many turn their backs on the basics, like you know, empathy.
It's especially wild because the whole reasoning that Christians will have for the Bible being infallible is that God himself guided the authors' pens. So why wouldn't that apply to this or any other science? Why is God only intimately involved with our knowledge and know-how when it's the Bible?
Absolutely. I’m still not understanding why this isn’t considered a crime. Meanwhile, I’m sure they’re vehemently against an individual’s choice to have an abortion. Make it make sense!
They sought medical help, three times. The first two, they were sent away with little help. The third time she went to the hospital, it was too late. She was ventilated, and died of pneumonia three days later.
The piece, if you don't read it, is remarkable for the silences in the reporting.
He needs, and deserves, to face the reality of what he and his wife did. Then they need to get their remaining kids (they had 5 kids, and he's 28?) vaccinated and protected, if it's not already too late.
He does think he did the right thing. He is repeating the same decision-making process with four more small children, one of whom is coughing at the funeral for his sister. He will not change because he and his community say that "God decided". He feels no guilt, and won't when his other kids die.
As much anger and sadness as I have for/at those parents, the one I want to see pay for these deaths in the form of murder charges is Andrew Wakefield, who started the whole scare with fake science so he could make money off his "custom" vaccines. I want him charged for every death. EVERY DEATH.
I already warned people by saying "imagine Trump mishandling yet another pandemic". Measles? COVID? the FLU, Bird Flu? Polio? Small Pox? The idiot already repeated his sins by attacking out health agencies, trying to mite oversight & the press, etc. He will kill more Americans again.
Today, a Dawson's Creek actor (JVDB) battling cancer crawled out of his near deathbed to warn his followers that the media is lying about the danger of the bird flu and claimed it can only be caught by industrial farm workers in unsanitary conditions. Even now he can't stop passing on misinformation
Only complete idiots believe that Trump cares about anyone except himself. This seems to apply to "the RAT" & most MEGAs also. If course MEGA = stupid to start with.
I recommend Jon Ronson’s excellent BBC podcast “Things Fell Apart.” He traces many cults /conspiracies back to the individuals who were in the right place and time to set alight the fires so many politicians and organizations then
fueled.
I don't know that I feel much for them. They decided to buy into bad information that left their child unprotected from a disease no one had died from in a decade and then they want to blame it on God? God gave you a vaccine and common sense so you would not have this issue. Its their fault
God invented all the stuff we use science to figure out what He did. I believe in God, maybe you do not. My main point is that if he believes in God's provision, then he should know better than to blame God when God already gave him the means to save his child and he refused it out of ignorance
I'm not religious myself, but I always liked the quote that you "meet God halfway" from Where the Red Fern Grows. Whether you believe in any gods or not, you do what you can while keeping hope that help will come.
It's like the story of the guy stuck on a roof in a flood and a boat comes to rescue him, and he says he's waiting for God to save him. Then another boat, then a helicopter come, but he's waiting for God. He drowns, asks God why he didn't save him. God says, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"
As someone of Christian belief, we talk about stuff like this, that its foolery to talk about God's will like He has given you no agency in the world. You want a job, you can't ask God to bless you with one, don't apply to any, then say it's God's will you unemployed. God don't work like that.
It’s not an “unthinkable” tragedy! Stop reporting on these situations as though no one has agency. It’s very thinkable which is why vaccine therapies actually exist to prevent these very “thinkable” tragedies.
Wow, not many people almost smart enough to see it. Republicans have no agency. They aren’t people. That’s all this media does for us, to remind us of the inhumanity of Republican voters, of their inability and irresponsibility, of their cruelty.
Exactly - as though they’re simply victimized by these “unthinkable” events. Just, enough of this! Giving an unrepentant parent a platform to continue to amplify disproven nonsense is shameful and disgusting.
It’s particularly sad. “Why not listen to the needs and whims of this wise electorate?”, three quarters of the media says, as the same media expects half that same electorate to believe everything they say. So much media removes blame from these “opinions”, as if they have a right to exist. Scary.
But what do they do anyway? Continue to act, vote, behave in their worst interests. How could a daughter look up at their father as he tells the media her brother or sister deserved to die, as it was God’s will? Would that child believe they had agency? Or that God would provide it?
This man's logic makes zero sense to me. Worried about vaccines. What exactly was he worried the vaccine would do, kill her? Did he think the vaccine would turn her into a zombie? I mean his reasoning is illogical. Now his daughter is dead, dead, and he looks like murdering idiot.
The death cult is real. Unfortunately, they're hooked up with a psychopath president. Keep pushing back! The Fuhrer is acting out more, just like any 2 year old would.
The thing is, even assuming vaccines cause autism (which they don't, but for the sake of argument), you're literally saying "I'd rather my child potentially die of Measles than live with autism"
Well, no. Obviously they’re overestimating the chances of autism with the vaccine and underestimating the chances of measles without it. There’s a genuine attempt at risk analysis with these people, they’re just way off on what the chances of those risks they’re balancing actually are.
And imagine that! He trusted the virus and crazy anti- vaxxers with no real evidence and he paid the ultimate price or should I say his child did. So freaking preventable and such a freaking waste of a life. For nothing! For lies!
Same folks who keep
Family at home and pray it away. Same outcome same ideals. Same folks during covid begging for ventilators when it was too late. Sorry for the kid parents should be charged.
Russian active measures included things such as joining Faceborg mom groups and then influencing them against vaccines. This has been a long time running.
I’d like to see his PHD and him explain exactly which components he doesn’t trust and why. People should call him a murderer to his face cause essentially he murdered his own kid through NEGLIGENCE. If you aren’t vaxxing your kids you are negligent
This guy couldn't tell you one damn ingredient in the vaccine, but will confidently say it "has stuff we don't trust." He made his child suffer and die through neglect and willful ignorance, and belongs in prison like any other murderer.
The child paid the ultimate price but the family will have a hole they will never be able to fill. Maybe more so because it was caused by their own ignorance or prejudices, assuming they ever recognize and claim their own culpability.
Come on. They were stupid about vaccination. That hardly means they are heartless. They lost their child. That's a pretty high price for stupidity. You're the one being heartless.
Have they changed their mind about the vaccine that would have saved their child?
Are they advocating for vaccination in their community so other families don't have the same loss?
If they are continuing the same as they were then they are refusing to learn and safeguard their children/community.
How about you take your feels and shove it. Actions have consequences and these idiots deserve to be charged. We don't need your bs idealogy. That's called enabling and it's what got us to the point a convicted felon stole our election. So f**k off. 🖕
I can understand previous and past ignorance when science was nonexistent and misogynistic doctrine held sway. Now? It’s a willful determination to control and erasure of personhood and autonomy. It’s grotesque and perverse
And he confessed to willful disregard of a known well documented risk he was offered protection from and REFUSED for a child who does NOT have the power to consents yes meets the elements for manslaughter
We
Used to prosecute people for intentionally spreading disease.
Unthinkable? He let his kid die because he was too lazy to think. No sympathy for the parents here and I hope Child Protective Services rescues any other kids in this family before those kids die too.
No, because he was mislead. In part by people who intentionally did so in order to weaken trust and cohesion in our society.
Who can he trust? Our media keep lying to us, as do our politicians, and celebrities sell our their credibility to whoever will pay them most to push their products.
B4 trmp he could have accessed 60 yrs of data on measles, vax &diseases at NIH on line library. Can still get the info from global sources. Could remember 5th grade biology class. He could have thought that he is still alive &healthy enuff to have kids largely b/c of vax. Could have used his brain.
Sure, but why should he trade the people he trusted who told him of the ills of vaccines, for the unknown people working FOR THE GOVERNMENT, telling him the LIES he'd been warned about?
It's hard to deny that the government have at times lied to us, since we've caught them doing so - consequences.
The same people who are okay with putting their 5-year-old in a Hyperbaric chamber to cure their ADHD. It exploded, and he died. Parents are suing the alternative medicine facility.
Am I off course here or are these people literally indicating they’d rather have a dead kid than a neurodivergent one? I mean that’s what the “stuff” in the vaccine is right? They think it causes neurodivergence.
You are not off at all! My youngest has Autism with ADHD. I can't imagine looking for something to “cure” him instead of finding therapies backed by science to help him grow.
Not a MAGA problem. I do medication management for old people in the west coast. I estimate 90 percent of the people I talk to haven’t had their flu, pneumonia or shingles vaccine
So I assume if they get a cancer diagnosis, they don’t bother with any treatment. I assume that if their teeth fall out, they don’t bother going to the dentist. If everything is God‘s will then why do we even leave bed in the morning?
Yup my sympathy is not present. And honestly his daughter was a pawn in his god is great mental illness n it cost her her life.... again #fuqtheusachristianwacks
I never understood why they can’t think beyond “God made measles, and gave it to my kid. It was His will that she died,” and not think, “God gave us the brains to develop vaccines to protect the health of my kid from random diseases and see her into adulthood.”
What a lot of people who want to dunk on religious ignorance aren't saying is she was taken to hospital three times. The first 2, they were sent away with very little help (cough syrop). The 3rd was too late. Ventilated then died of pneumonia 3 days later.
Uh no the parents chose 2 not vaccinate the hospital cant force them 2 do so or take their medical advice. This is all soley on the family & their extremely bias view abt a god that has no bearing here. If this god created disease he created the human brain to help stop it done with God is great BS
I won't argue against the facts - all of them. And as we have seen, it's not just the religious who are ignorant about vaccines. The issue is the ignorance inherent in some belief structures whether religious, MAGA, or super hippy. Bananas.
There is no treatment for measels encephalopathy or other paralysis and it comes on very suddenly. It's entirely possible the treatment the first few times was supportive symptom management and met the standard of care.
Thx-that's important. Taking her to the hospital 3 times shows their love. But there was little the hospital could do. Measles treatment is supportive care. Bacterial pneumonia is treated with antibiotics; viral pneumonia has no treatment. Why trust medicine about everything except vaccines?
So they don’t trust the vaccine but run to the hospital 3 times! Makes no fkng sense to me, guarantee the hospital recommended vaccination & they refused! 🙄
And the MMR vaccine would have prevented it. Sorry, but this remains the critical point here. In this case, dunking is a synonym for acknowledging the parents’ guilt in neglecting their child just because Fux “News” lies to them and they didn’t bother asking a doctor.
What medical intervention could the hospital have performed or offered, in line with these parents’ religious beliefs, that would have saved their daughter?
Absolutely hate that phrase “its gods will” niece got pregnant at 15 and Sil said it is God's will I told her god did not will a 15 yr old to get pregnant 🤦♀️
Peter, I can’t help but think that there was a way to prevent this unnecessary tragedy. ‘What if’ God influenced researchers and gave doctors the ability to administer vaccines?
I won’t read the article because their side of the story doesn’t matter. They could’ve protected their kid, and they didn’t. They fucked around, and their kid found out. They should be mortified with themselves.
I bet their parents got them vaccinated when they were kids though.
Ofc he'll be repeating this until his last day on earth: it's the only way to survive, not admitting that you cause the untimely death of your son
As to God's plan: here in Rome the Holy See runs ~ half of the hospitals
If God's plan was to let us die for illnesses, the Church misunderstood the plan
How long are we going to keep ignoring dead children because the parents plead religious grounds for their criminal neglect? A make believe deity and their make believe will should not excuse responsibility for a child's illness and death.
No it actually is. They're Mennonites, most of whom are Neo-Luddites that resist, suspect and avoid technological, scientific, medical and technical advancements. Hence the "we don't trust some of the stuff that in it" about the vaccine.
But its not prohibited specifically. And the father references what he's heard or been told about vaccines which reflects the misinformation that is everywhere.
He also seemed to think the hospital could have done more when she was admitted.
A useful time to remind ourselves that throughout the whole of Christian history - and including the atrocities of the Roman Empire - the greatest killers of Christians have been OTHER CHRISTIANS!
This is the “religious freedom” we’ve allowed for in our county. At least for Christianity. Other religions seem to still get held responsible for things like death though.
To be fair, it's general religious conservatism. We just find ourselves exposed to the Christian (mostly prosperity evangelical) side of things in the USA.
But to your point, being Christian apparently makes easy to excuse the fact that these people have more in common with ISIS than anything else.
The level of ignorance about vaccines astounds me! Willingly not vaccinating a child is criminal!No one should die from measles since the vaccine was developed!
Some people CAN NOT be vaccinated, which is why we go for a 95% vaccination goal. So, to say that not vaccinating your child is criminal may be incorrect. Remember if your child is healthy then vaccinate and be glad you have a kid healthy enough to be vaccinated.
Knowingly to not vaccinate your child is unacceptable. As a retired healthcare professional I understand that some individuals cannot be vaccinated due to a compromised immune system. If healthy get a vaccine. Vaccines save lives!
God also created Oppenheimer and other scientists who developed nuclear bombs! If god can create scientists to make weapons that can destroy mankind then he also can create scientists who develop vaccines to save lives and cure diseases!
It's just so scary how these people can use 'God' to gloss over their bad behaviour. His God also gave him free will and the ability to think but he didn't use that to do whatever he could to protect his children, and now look what has happened. I don't know anything else about him but this
Yeah it’s that classic story of the preacher who refuses three offers of help during a flood, then gets to heaven and asks God, “why didn’t you save me?” and god says, “I sent three people to save you, what did you expect, an angel?”
exactly this. they think it’s gods will and disease is a test from god. they don’t get that the test is how you use knowledge to help yourself and others
Because he was afraid of “stuff” his child died. He will have to live the rest of his life knowing his child died solely because of his political beliefs.
From the sound of it he will be too ignorant to make that realization.
Please remember, you’re talking about a child. She didn’t choose to not be vaccinated. Her parents were very likely vaccinated and are not at risk of dying from measles or any other vaccine preventable disease.
I just want you to know that what you're doing here is EXACTLY like what the MAGA people do, just in a different key. It's the same exact mentality from a different perspective leading you to practically the same conclusion
that's the path where everyone loses. If we lose our humanity, it's just two groups of people with different ideas and both willing to hurt and kill the other for it.
I agree that a child is likely to grow up with their parent's views. But judge, jury, & execution before the supposed opinion forms?
You're sure right about that. I'd like to believe that the left wouldn't condemn a child for their parent's actions but here you are arguing in favor of their death.
I'm sorry, but we can't go down the path of "well the kids wouldve grown up to be evil too". It's the same BS answer my parents gave me when I asked about the Bible flood story, and it's inhumane logic like that that pushed me out of their cult (they are now MAGAs... I am not)
Cults breed more cult members. Some "get out" but most children grow up and stay. I'm sorry that child's parents were idiots. But I'm not against MAGA eating itself with their own stupidity.
That's what I don't get. They obviously didn't have adverse reactions but still choose not to vaccinate their children. I worked in nursing and have had parents who "didn't want their child to suffer from getting the shot cause the child didn't want to hurt from the prossess".
Comments
It was entirely preventable but for the belligerent, defiant, self-inflicted ignorance of these people.
Measles didn't kill your child. You did. Because you let measles kill them.
Vaccinate. Measles has a near 10% fatality rate in children unvaccinated. 0% if vaccinated.
That's near 10x higher fatality rate than Covid.
Not the place for wholesale religion-bashing. The problem here is willful ignorance permeating a sizable community. Furthermore... ➡️
Why would you face reality? Lean into the fantasy, that way you can avoid accountability.
They will deny they are responsible for their daughter's death until their last day.
😊
German Waldorf schools, for instance, cater to well-educated parents who, mostly, are ardent anti-vaxxers. And they are recurring hotbeds of infectious disease outbreaks.
Maybe you should STFU about people doubting science, when that's been a thing for your own publication.
Chemo and antibiotics? ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME!!????!!!!
*That said, chemo is still way better than the alternative.
If a parent fails in the interest of a child health need, then restrict that right.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/?gift=vBkRJvfIhYbbEuG-ZJmVbnUWJgLovIiOX16CtSK6HHQ&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
Sad
His child died, but at least he didn't bend on his beliefs. It's absolutely criminal.
Hope he doesn't have other kids.
Your fucking belief system.
His daughter could have been saved. Awful parent.
I swear these people take this stance so they don't have to accept blame for their actions.
It takes a certain kind of personality to choose to be a member of a cult.
So where does that leave us? 🤔
🤦♂️
That’s what the charge should be. Bc they could’ve saved her.
When are parents gonna sue the anti vax grps? They need to do to these grps what Sandy Hook parents did to Alex jones: remove the incentive.
Misinformation that gets ppl killed is NOT free speech
Children die disproportionately all around the world due to choices of adults, not god.
This is a perfect example of the harm of the cult of religion. His child died and he clings to the
What's the harm in believing in things that don't exist and following a dogma?
Really?
What's the harm?
The moment I read about “God’s will” I stopped feeling bad for
Peter.
I have no sympathy for this stuff anymore.
He should be charged in connection with the death just like parents who won’t give their dead kids insulin have been.
plus, if you're male, you get to abuse women.
Yup.
Peter needs to understand that his daughter's death is because he chose to be ignorant.
Because God created cancer, and it is God's will.
Tattoo him with this message so the doctors know.
If she died from the vaccine, wouldn't it be God's will too? If it wasn't his will for her to die from the vax, wldn't he protect her from anything in it?
First God provided a truck, then God provided a boat, then, finally God provides him with a helicopter. The man refused all three saying "The Lord will provide".
If only you'd given him a 🧠
#measles #preventable with proper #healthcare.
Child dies a preventable death.
God's will!
Gay people exist.
They must be smote, they are an affront to God!!
muscle pain his daughter had to go through until she passed away was better? Making her suffer was better? To him that was worth it⁉️
What an insane freak‼️
She’s gone.
#SCIENCE #REASON
No modern medicine either, only bloodletting & leeches for you!
That's how stupid they are.
Preferably in a remote anti-vax colony where those who don't know can swap spit with those who don't care.
Bet you believe that abortion should be kept between a woman and her doctor, right?
I was recently sent to a civilian neurologist by the VA who's an antivaxxer.
Antivaxxers aren't just dangerous to their children.
Abortion doesn't affect you.
No. I don't work that way.
Anymore than self-immolation on an airplane is a "private decision."
That's you speaking.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/?gift=vBkRJvfIhYbbEuG-ZJmVbnUWJgLovIiOX16CtSK6HHQ&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
It's not necessary to politicize every thing in life.
There is no deprogramming it.
Or something to that effect. Matters not to me. Chump wants old, poor to suffer and die. Who knew he was after all the kids too?🤷♀️
Take your pick: we’re retiring to the good ol’ days of kiddie coffins & endemic disease.
In his world, a dead child is a small price to pay to the antivax gods.
And that’s a bad thing!?
I’m so confused 😕
The MMR vaccine has been changed since the 70's. Turns out the 70's version wasn't as permanent as they believed back in the day.
Safety is relative. I agree MMR is very safe, but nothing is risk free. Sadly this last is something the antivaxxers exaggerate and exploit.
Exceptions of course for genuine medical necessities not to vaccinate but those are so exceedingly rare.
No religious objections.
if you're implying the kid died bc of Darwinism rather than not being vaccinated you've got bigger problems than I can solve by explaining darwinism.
Small glimmers of hope amidst the horror.
"things we don't trust" BULLSHIT, you eat fast food full of KNOW GARBAGE.
Many people in Wales die.
Dr. is struck off.
Dr. moves to Texas.
And here we are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
Must be fine.
The only person who matters is him, and he didn't die of measles.
His child dying for his "leadership" is just fine for him.
Willing to literally sacrifice family members to show fealty to Dear Leader.
It’s no wonder that people who think like this also think that vaccines are bad. Zero rational thought involved.
Poor kid didn’t deserve this.
Twisted thinking cannot come to rational conclusions.
I thought human fallibility was a key tenet of the religion. Surely their god won't be happy that they're blaming him for their own errors.
ugh these people.... they're making it hard to find empathy for them.
All kids deserve good parents but not all adults deserve kids.
God created heart failure and the material conditions that caused the bullet to fly into his body after all
Why didn't God strike the assassin down before he fired, or make the bullet U-turn in mid air and strike him?
Or save the innocent bystander.
Too much bollocks.
The reaction of this type of parent to a child's deaths is as predictable as what happens when populations refuse to be vaccinated.
Yeah, zero sympathy for any of these idiots, get em out of here.
But a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by an ectopic pregnancy and the medical professionals who would dare help her are felons in TX.
While these parents are heroes. FFS.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/?gift=vBkRJvfIhYbbEuG-ZJmVbnUWJgLovIiOX16CtSK6HHQ&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
A visit with a family in mourning
By Tom Bartlett, Photographs by Jake Dockins, Tuesday, March 11,2025
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/?gift=HoRfrgrF5SCKopc-hfobxEUvk03OSejCTaTqLCgRjL8&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
RFK Jr. is an awful person.
This kind of risk assessment baffles me.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/?gift=lEjB4FTxRFUiX1hoytc94FzW_9m7rSINDsAgfFsiRBg&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
For those who can swing it, do support good journalism when you're able
https://archive.ph/o4kqN
https://archive.ph/o4kqN/
Aka scientists works on behalf of lord Lucifer towards apocalypse.
I just don't understand religious sciencephobes either as a result.
That's also why I never believed science and religion have to be at odds.
I get what you’re saying & agree. Like, my personal opinion is that I don’t think they need to be at odds, sucks that so many active Christian’s believe they need to be.
Shit doesn’t need to be this way and it sucks we’re here.
The doctrine I was raised with was socialistic and community oriented. It’s a real shame to see so many turn their backs on the basics, like you know, empathy.
They keep people from getting the divine diseases so God can kill them and bring them to Heaven.
The piece, if you don't read it, is remarkable for the silences in the reporting.
He needs, and deserves, to face the reality of what he and his wife did. Then they need to get their remaining kids (they had 5 kids, and he's 28?) vaccinated and protected, if it's not already too late.
Plague rats every one of them.
Just wait for the next pandemic.
fueled.
Wow, not many people almost smart enough to see it. Republicans have no agency. They aren’t people. That’s all this media does for us, to remind us of the inhumanity of Republican voters, of their inability and irresponsibility, of their cruelty.
Bit by bit, they’re banning both.
He has four more children to kill.
Family at home and pray it away. Same outcome same ideals. Same folks during covid begging for ventilators when it was too late. Sorry for the kid parents should be charged.
What it does instead is make more and more Americans see the logic and intelligence behind what the ignorant, misinformed person did.
Its a win win. Win for stupid and win for Russia.
Russian active measures included things such as joining Faceborg mom groups and then influencing them against vaccines. This has been a long time running.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-58167339
Religion kills, and not just through endless warfare.
Unlike moron fathers.
Fucking murderer.
Tragically, it was paid by their innocent child who had absolutely no choice in the matter.
The child paid the ultimate price but the family will have a hole they will never be able to fill. Maybe more so because it was caused by their own ignorance or prejudices, assuming they ever recognize and claim their own culpability.
Maybe they’re just in denial but it sounds like complete strangers like us are more horrified by this child’s preventable death than her own family.
Are they advocating for vaccination in their community so other families don't have the same loss?
If they are continuing the same as they were then they are refusing to learn and safeguard their children/community.
We
Used to prosecute people for intentionally spreading disease.
I've worked for the health department in 4 different states
Who can he trust? Our media keep lying to us, as do our politicians, and celebrities sell our their credibility to whoever will pay them most to push their products.
It's hard to deny that the government have at times lied to us, since we've caught them doing so - consequences.
That said, there are not for profit outlets, such as the Philadelphia Inquirer, The Guardian, CBC, BBC, &c.
So tragic and so unnecessary for her to die
The father should be charged with manslaughter
We were both horrified when this happened, because it could've been her.
There are no adults in charge anymore. There are perhaps no adults left in the country.
On the substance of the point, the father only offers what I’ve recounted (he was, understandably, muted in his comments). Poor family.
Bet he used antibiotics to cure it
If all is God's will, why even teach children to cross roads. If they are hit and die, it's God's will?
This is some demented galaxy broken brain fuckery right here
I bet their parents got them vaccinated when they were kids though.
As to God's plan: here in Rome the Holy See runs ~ half of the hospitals
If God's plan was to let us die for illnesses, the Church misunderstood the plan
The reference to god's will here is their coping mechanism.
The real villains here are the internet warriors spreading bullshit for clicks.
He also seemed to think the hospital could have done more when she was admitted.
None of it matters to his daughter anyhow.
But to your point, being Christian apparently makes easy to excuse the fact that these people have more in common with ISIS than anything else.
Basic concepts like:
Monotheism
Afterlife
Belief in the Supernatural
Omnipotence
Are taken for granted -while none of them apply to "relgion" out of necessity. Just to Christianity
On the other hand, conservatism does kill children.
That wasn’t god, that was YOU!
"Why didn't you save me from the flood?"
"Bitch, I sent you three boats, a helicopter and a rescue dog, this one's on you."
If your god "tests" you, it's an imposter.
From the sound of it he will be too ignorant to make that realization.
I'm all for these morons self purging by ignoring medical science.
I agree that a child is likely to grow up with their parent's views. But judge, jury, & execution before the supposed opinion forms?