this is what i mean by decadence. your vote is not a gift you give a person you like. it is a responsibility forced on you by citizenship which implicates you in the actions of the state.
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The fact that all actions including not voting are an affirmative choice for the outcome created is understandably a source or existential horror, and yet: the horror does not excuse your choice.
If someone won't draw a line at genocide, genuinely what would cause them to ever question that party? We've already seen multiple people in this thread defending the genocide and trying to shift blame from its perpetrators in an attempt to justify Democratic policy. It's absolutely wild.
Once again, it is not "decadence" to reject two candidates in a democratic election on the basis that they are both perpetuating a genocide. No party is owed a vote - it is their job to earn it. Your infatuation with that word will not make it ring any more true.
People like you are why millions of queer people in America are now in the crosshairs of a vengeful fascist government.
But hey, at least you leftists get to jerk off about how moral and righteous you are while we’re all suffocated under jackboots. So that’s a plus for you, I guess.
Wrong. Your glee at it is telling, by the way, and answers the mystery of why you're here pestering strangers to feel moral and righteous instead of being out there helping people.
In spite of the fact that I, and my entire family, are working-class lefties with little material wealth, I dedicate a larger portion of my spare time providing whatever aid and comfort I am capable of to people who have less than a poaster like you has ever even considered.
Nah, I’m going to be completely blunt with you. The fact that you think your vote is some kind of gift that you give out whenever you choose and not a duty to the billions of vulnerable people who rely on your vote is selfish, anti-egalitarian, and deserves criticism.
Man, imagine being the kind of cackling asshole who responds to any criticism of the leadership choices that led to this situation with "Haha, you're all going to SUFFER and DIE".
I don’t know if you’re just illiterate or chose not to read, but the point of the comment was that because of people like *you*, people who are queer (especially trans people like myself) are going to suffer.
They don't care. They're Republicans whose only issue with Trump is that he's a little too rude about enacting the policies they otherwise endorse, and their lack of morality and courage means they'll never challenge actual power. That would be hard and scary, you can't expect them to do that!
It absolutely is. There were clear and obvious differences between the candidates (including on Gaza). That you refused to use your vote out of vanity is entirely decadent. And now people, including in Gaza, are suffering more because you refused to use your power as a citizen responsibly
Yes it is. It’s the height of decadent narcissism to demand the nation adjust to you before you will do your duty as a citizen. It’s not a transaction, to view it that way makes you ethically equivalent to Trump, frankly.
For many, they would have done that no matter which way they voted. Thus, they opted for the 3rd option of pursuing an acknowledgment that neither party represents their views or interests.
And someone who doesn’t understand that when you are voting as a leftist (and not just a narcissistic troll) in this two party system, is that you are VOTING FOR YOUR ADVERSARY in the fight.
Who do you want to be fighting?
You are a citizen of the US of A which is a democracy meaning you share the responsibility for the actions of the US state like all of us. Failing to avert your vote from the candidate who ran on causing the global aid catastrophes and prolonging others is decadence and a failure to everyone.
I take it that you wouldn't have voted for Lincoln because his party participated in the genocide of the Native Americans? That you wouldn't have voted for FDR because he interned Japanese Americans? Can you imagine what smoldering hell America would be today if everyone followed your lead?
I'm sure you're happy to hide behind your pepper spray a cop pfp, and not show your actual human face, because you are a coward who wouldn't pepper spray a cop.
Personally, I have a slightly different approach. If the Moors had invaded England instead of crossing the into France, they could have likely held onto some part of it. The Danes or the Norwegians might have kept some as well, and therefore England would pretty much not exist.
Now, for the Dutch. It would be very difficult to invade it, even with a two-pronged assault. It would be much better for the Moors to bide there time, establish good realtions with the French, Irish, Scots, and Welsh, and of course to focus on inventing this timeline's version of the Caravel.
Once the're able to use Caravels to trade with the Far East from the long way around, these Polder-potties wouldn't stand a chance. And just like that, centuries of global imperialism, colonialism, and murder prevented 😎
FDR only did the new deal to save capitalism from communism. FDR maintained the status quo. Lincoln didn’t view black folk as equals. He did it to keep this shithole country intact.
And it worked out so well for you. You appeased the evil people, became an evil person for it, lost some good people over it, and the people you appeased voted Trump anyway for being even more evil. Now you screech at people who didn't want genocide. Brilliant plan dumbass.
Fundamental difference with the Lincoln and FDR campaigns was that Lincoln campaigned to end slavery and FDR campaigned on the New Deal as opposed to Kamala Harris who campaigned on not stopping the deeply unpopular support for Israel and also nothing. Unless you had crypto I guess.
lincoln murdered a LOT of lakota for defending themselves so yeah, he ain't free a gotdamn thing. if it weren't for nat's rebellion ruffling white feathers, lincoln wouldn't have done shit. you still on that elementary shit.
It doesn't take much imagining to see America as a smoldering hell, my guy. You just listed several examples of WHY it's been a smoldering hell. Even the relatively good leaders do horrible shit. Honestly, you fuckers are making this too easy at this point.
"wouldn't have voted for Lincoln" are we talking time travel? or some how raised in a different and far removed time and place yet remain the same cognitively? could I even vote back then? also being unable to stop bombing folk is how we got nixion.
This is a completely meaningless argument. People voted or withheld their votes for whatever reason.
That's done, musk is president, the issue is...
How can we save as many people from the coming catastrophe as possible.
Would Harris have been this bad, no, but at this point, who cares? She lost.
Failing to have a visceral understanding of the stakes, and swallow all your pride and qualms to take a cold, hard harm-minimisation approach to voting, is decadence, yes.
The Dems had their own decadence for sure. But it's not theirs I'm talking about right now.
There's a lot of blood, and it's on a lot of hands. Including those which didn't vote.
People *begged* both Biden and Harris to change course on this issue. They wanted to believe that things *could* be better.
Both candidates did everything possible to convince them otherwise. This was a campaign that gave up even trying to reassure potential voters.
And now things are going to get even worse, while you pretend you've got some sort of moral superiority because you sat on your ass and did fuck all. You're pathetic, and you're culpable for everything that is going to happen.
someone should probably tell the dems that considering they spent almost the entire campaign appealing to gated community types and imaginary Good Republicans
Your vote is a tool for you and your fellow human beings, not a prize for a candidate or party. We, not politicians, are the ones who suffer from bad election outcomes. It sucks that neither viable option was willing to cut off support of Israel's destruction of Gaza, but one choice was still...
blatantly, gobsmackingly superior to the other on many dimensions of fitness. That option lost in part because of people like you, and now we all suffer for it.
500,000+ people died in gaza . You can't bomb 90% of a city to rubble and count 30k . There was 2.2 million people in a walled in city. Basic math would suggest a conservative estimate at 500k on the low end. But I would not be surprised if it is later told it was over 1 million.
You are arguing with accounts controlled by the Iranian Ministry of intelligence. They all work at troll farms in Shiraz and Tehran. Dont give them attention. They like to masquerade as non binary people. Their scripts are all the same and they don’t have one original thought. Just paid trolls.
You people really wonder why you get called blueanon then speak in nothing but batshit insane conspiracy theories. You're like a red hat away from screaming about the deep state
People need to have at least some rational consequentialism in their decision making or else they are just actively promoting harm by willful inaction.
Yeah, but have you considered that if they voted for Harris, that the President would be pressuring Israel towards a two-state solution instead of considering occupying the Gaza Strip ourselves??
That wouldn't have happened, but hey maybe you should be trying to push Dems toward winning next time instead of engaging in these pointless theatrics. Unless pointless theatrics are all you care about, but no...surely not...
I'm sure that the immigrants being rounded up, all the openly trans women and men now living in fear, and the immunocompromised are grateful for your entitled ideological purity.
You don't even think of the Palestinians as people at all. They can die as far as you're concerned, all that matters is feeling like you're a good person.
Weird, I just searched your feed for "gaza" and "palestine" and found nothing. I'm not accusing you of anything, it just seems odd that someone who so clearly cares about Palestinians wouldn't have talked about them. Oh, well!
It’s even weirder that you dorks think you get to use them as a prop to justify your shitty, anti-social behavior.
But that’s just the kind of people you are: vicious losers. You don’t want to help people or generate change, you only care about your own self-image and clout.
No. Listen. The lever had to be pulled by many, many people. I am also covered in blood & saying the same thing next to the lever & the Nazi is also looking at me. I am sorry, but everyone must pull on the bit of the lever they can. It is a constant choice, to pull or not pull - not just in voting.
I guarantee you Kamala Harris wasn’t planning where to put her golf course while literally saying we needed to move all the Palestinians elsewhere in order to “clean up” the area.
Orders of magnitude matter. A less bad outcome is better if it prevents the most bad outcome. Grow up.
What has electing Trump done for them so far ? A promise to finish off the Nakba, annex the territory for the US? What have you accomplished ? You make yourself feel good?
I guess the question is, did your selection of “none” yield the best result for you? If it’s the same either way for you, it’s agreeing the choice was a small luxury for you, more of an identity signifier than a genuine life decision.
The entire point is that both parties are so irreparably brutal that they both endorse the same massively unpopular genocide. In your analogy, where is the alternative from Hitler in this situation?
You know your vote for Trump or non-vote on his behalf directly restarted and escalated the definitional genocide in the Congo, right? You escalated conflicts in Africa, you escalated conflicts in the Middle East. You are responsible for deaths. There is blood on your hands.
Show me where the Biden administration called for annexing Gaza. Or where they axed USAID, impacting literally millions of people and likely killing hundreds of thousands. Or where they abandoned Ukraine to russian imperialism. Or where they destabilized the entire global security system.
True democracy is when you Must vote for one party every election no matter what they do or who they push, and you must never challenge or criticize them under any circumstances.
Withholding a vote is also an exercise of power. It could be withheld to pressure candidates to not support genocide.
It's quite funny you take offence at the idea of voting only for people who offer you things you want. Yes. That's the point.
see, voting (or not) to achieve some practical result is totally righteous and justified. But that's not what they are saying. they're saying that withholding their vote morally disinfects them. it does not! If your voting decision causes PEPFAR to die, you are morally culpable.
It is quite reasonable (and probably morally necessary) to treat genocide as being a vote breaker. The fact that 2 genocidal candidates were fielded is a result of an electorate that doesn't treat it as being a vote breaker.
Good god fuck off. You knew damn well Trump would not only make Gaza even worse, as seen by him wanting an ethnic cleansing, but also fuck over the entire US as well as other parts of the world, especially given how chummy he is with Putin.
Harris could've been reasoned with. Trump can't be.
"the democrats were engaged in a conspiracy to deliberately throw the election, for the benefit of Zionists or the 1% or something"
You're entitled to your beliefs, but this seems like a very confusing perspective to have while going through life
Obviously not. The only way to get politicians to do what you want is swear you'll vote for them no matter what, forever, well ahead of the election. I am very smart but keep losing at poker for some reason.
Me too. And the floor manager never listens when I explain that I should have won because I’m clearly the better player. I just keep getting bad hands against ignorant opponents.
You've well surpassed sacrificing good on the altar of perfection. You're now actively sacrificing human lives on the altar of your own fucking laziness
Damn, sounds like you should be out there trying to make things better instead of uselessly whining on here. You're literally sacrificing human lives on the altar of your own laziness, and that's awful.
I work for a charity-run pharmacy, assisting the lowest income members of my community, the homeless, the undocumented, those cast aside by their scum fucking insurance and pitiless corporations to die for want of medicine get life saving prescriptions. I am paid barely over the FPL. Fuck off.
An inability to forsee and accept the consequences of your actions is just infantile. There were two options: one bad, one hellish. In not voting for the least worst option, you have ushered in the worst option. You're a citizen. Act like it.
No there wasn't. There were only 2 candidates that could get to 270 Electoral votes because there were only 2 candidates that were on the ballot in enough states to get to 270 EV. The winner was going to be Trump or Harris.
No, it's to achieve the policies that the voters want. In this case, the voters didn't want a genocide.
I could also bring up other issues Democrats have rarely deigned to fight for - healthcare, rent, housing, mass shootings, police brutality, carceral slavery, immigrant concentration camps, etc.
Democrats have moved mountains on US policy for Healthcare, the ACA is in fact, much better than what it replaced. The Republicans are trying to gut Medicaid and the VA at this very moment.
Your lack of a vote for Harris has already lead to an explicitly more pro genocide world, so thanks for that.
they worked all year to get to 60 votes. they would have had 60 for the public option if voters weren't so scared of "socialised medicine" that MA replaced Ted Kennedy with a Republican, then they got wiped out in 2010 bc the ACA was too socialist
the policies that we have now ended up with are significantly more genocidal ones, with Israel's preferred president winning. biden and harris are going to be fine. gazans are going to be far worse off.
Why, it's almost as if the lives of both the Palestinian and American people were little more than abstractions to the Democrats at best, and neither Biden or Harris believed in anything substantive enough to have a stake in winning!
Genuinely, how do you watch a party cede ground and lose to one of the dumbest and most evil political candidates on Earth, win for a term due to his disastrous and unpopular governance, then lose *again* and still fail to realise that they have squandered every opportunity they had to prevent this?
The same thing could be said about many pro-Palestinians in the West who are happy to throw Ukraine under the bus and let it be invaded and massacred by russia. Those people are swayed to do so purely by virtue of Ukraine receiving aid and support from the West, because any enemy of the West is good
So why are you responding to me? What about the countless people criticizing you for your enabling of fascism and your inability to take accountability?
Fuck off, thanks to brainlets like you there will now be a more extensive Gaza genocide AND a trans genocide.
People like you are worse than fucking Musk. Fucking walking tumor you are
It's not decadence, it's fascism. When you don't vote to stop fascism, you're a fascist. When you equate fascism with antifascism, you're a fascist. You're not pure, you're a fascist.
I agree no party is owed a vote. But this whole spiel about "they have to earn it" is pretty self indulgent. If you don't vote someone will choose for you. That is never the better way. It is normal not to be all in on any one candidate. But it is silly to throw away your agency out of spite
I've always been an advocate for working both within and outside the system to achieve change. But voting for a genocidal party which has no intention of changing course after people did everything they could to pressure them since 2023? No, that's a line I could never cross.
"Genocidal party" is pretty dramatic but anyway, what I was saying is, you decided not to vote and now you got a guy who, without joking, wants to pressure Egypt and Jordan into accepting the entire population of Gaza so he can turn it into a beach resort. I don't see the moral high ground here.
I could have sworn they tried 😀 As expected they didn't make it through everyone's wish list. Everybody always thinks someone else should've could've might've done something and everything would be fine. But in the end it is the voters that decided. And also the non-voters.
How do you suggest I describe a political party that armed, funded and provided military aid to an ongoing genocide while in power? What are these actions if not genocidal in nature?
Hey Cran? The government isn't a business. You can't just boycott it like one. Sorry not sorry, but you, and others with the same mindset, are very much part of the problem, and THIS IS YOUR FAULT.
Sometimes the worst action you can take is NO action.
Joe Biden was not in charge of ground operations in Gaza. Neither was Kamala Harris. Military funding is determined by congress. You do not owe your votes to a candidate, you owe them to your fellow citizens.
Welcome to why a lot of dem congresspeople and senators lost their seat too. The whole party loved sending those weapons over, so the whole party, Biden and Harris included, lost support.
This would be true in a system that allowed for more than 2 major candidates. In a 2-party system you either hold your nose and choose or you aren't engaging meaningfully with the system.
I'm not pouting. I am marching, I am calling my elected representatives, I am pushing organizations where I have influence to come out against fascism. AND I voted against Trump 3 times because that is part of my responsibility as a member of a free society.
No. See, what you did was sell the people out that you are pretending you were fighting for (by abstaining). You made it so much worse. Too clever by a lot…
If neither candidate is perfect and you are pissed at both of them, but one is *clearly* gonna go vengeful scorched-earth, sure you can sit out... but don't DARE argue that doing so is morally sound. If you don't vote against Adolph bc the other guy's boss was crappy, YOU ARE COMPLICIT
No one is owed a vote, but what practical good does that do anyone? Does it free you from complicity? It’s so bizarre that people don’t realize the lesser evil is good, actually, when the choice is between the lesser evil or the greater evil.
Disagree when the choice is between more or less evil, because less evil is comparatively good. I get it’s frustrating that there’s no choice considered good, but saying they both suck doesn’t mean we can wash our hands from any responsibility of letting the greater evil win.
No. Evil is evil.
Attempting to quantify evil to justify a vote for evil doesn't negate that you're still voting for evil.
Evil wins either way.
I don't owe my vote to any level of evil.
Ok, say that’s absolutely true and everyone who votes is at least somewhat complicit in evil. Do you think it somehow absolves those not voting for either viable choice of their complicity? Some people on the ground may have practical concerns about what the greater evil is up to.
In 1860, an avowed white supremacist ran for POTUS on a platform of permitting slavery to remain legal in states which allowed it, while blocking its expansion.
Rather than demanding that Lincoln "earn" their vote by fully opposing slavery, abolitionists rallied support for him.
They both ran for president, it's not inherently that crazy to compare them.
Unlees you think a comparison is when you say "these two things are exactly the same".
"There is a physical difference between the white and Black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.” Lincoln
Show me the Harris quote which is as vile a lie as that.
If “decadence” isn’t the right word, how about sell-out.
Declining to cast a vote to protect reproductive rights, environmental regulation, workplace safety, voting rights, Black families, and marriage equality doesn’t make you a principled hero, it makes you a sell-out.
"Oh yeah? Well, if you won't give me tacos, why, then you'll have to choose something for me! And whatever you choose, I will pay for! That'll teach you not to offer tacos!"
there was, as a matter of simple fact, no possible outcome to the election other than "Trump wins" or "Harris wins". no one else was on the ballot in enough states for an electoral majority. you *literally could not* reject both candidates. you decided you were indifferent.
Sounds like the Dems should have tried to earn votes by not supporting genocide. Parties and candidates are not owed votes, they have to earn them. You literally can reject them if you do not like them.
and, you know what, fine. maybe the only thing that matters to you is Gaza. maybe you don't care if RFK kills some kids, or Elon gets to regulate his own businesses, or Hegseth abandons Ukraine, or Trump annexes Panama and Canada and Greenland and also Gaza. but spare me the fucking superiority.
last election got you a choice between genocide or genocide and the argument for one side is that they would "genocide less", rejecting a system that's gotten to that point is the opposite of edgy nihilism
I'm just popping in as a Canadian to say we most definitely, as a nation, are not blaming your voters for Trump's actions. If Trump invades us, we will have an insurrection, and we know full well we won't be able to trust a democrat as an ally in that insurrection.
I actually have a lot of sympathy for Palestinian-Americans with ties to life changing tragedy who got paralyzed by grief. Personal connection makes everyone vulnerable. Making the same judgement call as a third party makes me question your moral reasoning.
If you can’t weigh the lives saved by all US foreign aid worldwide vs. the horrors of Gaza as an affected victim, understandable. It’s a horrific call to make. If you can’t do so because you’ve fried your brain on memes, that’s pathetic.
I have a large (though not total) degree of tolerance for both Jewish and Palestinian people who are not able to rationally assess the conflict. it is in fact different when your family is in danger. but most people's family's aren't.
Because yeah you can refuse to buy Pepsi or coke as a stance against soda generally. That works. That's just not the paradigm we are talking about with elections.
So by earning more votes you mean align more closely with your goals. And you won't vote for them unless they meet your demands. Even though that hurts other people. It's extortion.
Voting for people with policies you like and not voting for those with policies you don't like is a basic aspect of the democratic process - the fact that people like you have come to feel that this is somehow vulgar or dangerous shows how dysfunctional and undemocratic the system has become.
No I mean earn more votes. They'd probably do that if they aligned with my goals, sure, but there may be other ways. They didn't even try last time, so it seems worth a shot!
That’s a really good point
Consumerism is a big problem in public life
I suppose it’s also the stupidity that forms the basis of the “I’ll run gvt like a business” comes from
No profit motive in public office UNLESS you’re corrupt
a lot of people made all the bad shit we're seeing now happen by voting. people who voted against tried to stop it. they didn't succeed, but they succeeded last time, and they might succeed next time.
anything else is just refusing to try because sometimes you lose.
they sound like a republican. they would not have cared if their healthcare wasn't on the table. i'm married to an immigrant and i'm gay. i hate both parties bc both parties either:
a) hate immigrants or try to appeal to people who hate immigrants (why?)
or b) supported queer from a safe distance
Glad you can retreat into your smugness when Israel expels all the Palestinians with the Trump admin’s approval. And don’t give me the bullshit “Harris/Dems would do the same.” No they wouldn’t. That lies you tell yourself.
saying this over and over again makes you look uneducated and defensive about it, it exists only as something for other jackasses to like so that they don't feel alone in failing their own politics and their fellow Americans.
Putting aside any election interference, any candidate that doesn't get the majority of votes regardless of abstetionism is NOT a democratically elected candidate, it doesn't matter what part of the world that happens.
I mean, this is an apparent Leftists whose feed is full of praise for Luigi Mangione, a guy whose politics are quite similar to Mark Zuckerberg's, so maybe it's vibes all the way down
Responsibility to the state? Are you fucking kidding me? The fuckers who rob my tiny ass income to turn around pass laws against my existence for no reason other than vile bigotry under both parties. The only responsibility I have is dismantling that, not giving them more shit they want. Fuck you
Not voting is arguably the option that results in more blood on your hands, not just Palestinian, but now also Ukrainian having to deal with a hostile trump admin and the victims of the destruction of usaid.
Lack of action does not lessen your culpability, in fact it arguably has done the opposite.
Ukraine and Palestine were both already victims under the incumbent biden government.
I do not understand this obsession with a tiny group of voters, who likely lived in solid blue states, rightly recognizing the bipartisan foreign policy consensus.
Oh I don't just blame this group of non-voters for the outcome.
I blame every eligible to vote American who either didn't vote, protest vote or voted gop. Same thing.
It just that the non-voters concerned about warcrimes in Palestine is most vocal about not taking responsibility for their actions.
So your citizenship doesn't implicate you in some crimes BUT your vote does implicate you in others even when you have almost as little control over them? How can your vote implicate you in actions over which your vote has no effect?
you are obligated to control what is within your power to control, however tenuous that control may be. you are not responsible for things which are outside your control.
Yes. You did something bad, which had bad effects, and you're being criticized for it. You're only calling it "scolding" because you're w child, and react to criticism as one would expect of a child
Reading all these “I don’t want to eat my vegetables” replies re the obligation to vote is so illuminating. They’re *all* just hollow self serving dispatches with a view from nowhere from the most miserable people on earth.
Yes, citizens of the present are implicated in crimes of the present and citizens of the past are implicated in crimes of the past. What part of this is hard to understand?
and what did you do before the election? are you riding this moral high horse on the strength of your vote alone? do you have any idea how many were dead and wounded by then?
Yeah and what did you change? Biden got you a ceasefire and there’s joYou got Trump elected raging against the Dems and now he’ll let Netanyahu restart the war and kill ‘em all you moron.
It was a psyop and you bought it. They torpedoed Joe, put the Hamas war on him, classic divide and conquer.
The Dems did not support Genocide. Biden got you a ceasefire. Trump is publicly advocating cleansing Gaza to make it an American Resort. Are you stupid?
Simply incorrect. By voting for evil, you enable the furthering of that evil. Why do you think the dems thought they could get away with a right-wing candidate who promised nothing good while perpetuating a genocide? Because they thought we'd grin and bear it. They were wrong, and it cost them.
It's grimly predictable that prior to the election, Democratic die-hards swore blind that Harris didn't need the votes of leftists because it was a sure thing either way, and now that she's lost it's apparently their fault (along with trans people, Muslims, and anyone else they think are fair game).
before i joined them, i stood on the sidewalk looking and them and clapped in support. a lot of people smiled at me in return, and that made me feel happy too
There is a police van escort. That is a state-sanctioned parade. And that's fine, to have a parade. But it's as much a protest as the local little league team protests for money when they walk down main street. If we're going to talk shit on voting at least have the courage to firebomb something.
This ideal has led us to our current predicament. The idea that it is the electorates' job to support a system that does not favor it, instead of a systems job to support its people, is why your ideals are garbage and why you will keep losing.
right yeah that's the basic problem. consumer brain. the idea that you can cause a revolution simply by opting out of any engagement with the current order
So, with a system like yours, there is no reason for the system to get better. You do realize if your votes are guaranteed, you have no need to make any improvements? How do you not see a massive flaw in this system?
let's work this through, yes? you've successfully denied the Democrats your vote. great! they lost!
Trump is now going to do everything he can to get the war to resume, is pushing the depopulation of Gaza, and will try hard to ensure you can't vote him out.
Ok lets work this through yes? Had we elected the democrats, trump would not be in prison, none of the systems that created the conditions for his election would change, and then in 4 years, we'd have trump. Does this sound familiar at all? Everything you listed would have happened either way.
It’s such a shame all you can do is vote or not vote. Hopefully your comrades are not so pathetic and can actually do other things that might further your agenda
it's not an ideal though, you are literally complicit in "the system" whether you vote in it or not. a vote is just one way in which your materiality is made legible system-wide
It's less than "not ideal" its a nonstarter. That system you're defending is a decadence in ignorance we can not afford. That system gave us the material conditions for a trump presidency. That system and that system alone is responsible for where we are today.
I'm not defending the US Constitution lol you must be reading the wrong thread. the US should move toward a parliamentary system as quickly as possible. notably, this is ALSO a system where "not voting" = a vote for the status quo, whether you like it or not
If you think the problem is the constitution, I get why you stopped learning about civics in 10th grade.
Most of the worlds governments are leading towards fascism, like they did last time all of this happened. I'll let you guess again, though.
ok so maybe it's not until 11th grade that you learn about the socialist countries that had/have parliaments, my bad. but wait, back up a sec - why are you randomly switching between two completely definitions of the use "ideal"? very confusing
If you guys were a little less smug, you'd be able to get away with being so wrong about everything a lot more easily. Alternatively, you could start trying to know what you're talking about to at least justify the smugness.
others can chime in, but I'm sure many in this thread would agree that a parliamentary system is better aligned with liberal democratic values (sorry, "ideals" since yall need the sanctimony turned up to 11) than the US Constitution, as many of its critics pointed out in the 1780s
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If more people understood that, we could actually have a better world
Instead, have people like you who just want the (D), and don't care about policy.
I love how it just takes the smallest modicum of pushback for your fash to come out. Is that really all it takes?
But hey, at least you leftists get to jerk off about how moral and righteous you are while we’re all suffocated under jackboots. So that’s a plus for you, I guess.
Who do you want to be fighting?
What action were you taking?
How many battalions do you have?
You’re just too dumb to know it yet.
You fell for a f**king ad campaign and now the people you couldn’t be bothered to care about get to suffer for it.
Idiot.
Stupid ass statement tbph
Lmao
Nice try fedboy, no free fap material from this ndn 💋
But keep sniffing your own farts online like you’re some sort of hero.
White people are just fucking evil and shouldn't be appeased.
Bc, do you know what we call it when the world let Hitler break the law and invade neighboring countries?
Ignorant shit PLEASE read some history
That's done, musk is president, the issue is...
How can we save as many people from the coming catastrophe as possible.
Would Harris have been this bad, no, but at this point, who cares? She lost.
There's a lot of blood, and it's on a lot of hands. Including those which didn't vote.
Both candidates did everything possible to convince them otherwise. This was a campaign that gave up even trying to reassure potential voters.
https://bsky.app/profile/cranboonitz.bsky.social/post/3linyioq74c24
Did the Dems throw them out?
What terrible brainwashing I have had done to me
People need to have at least some rational consequentialism in their decision making or else they are just actively promoting harm by willful inaction.
Part of life is making hard choices
You can see the moral dilemma, right??
But that’s just the kind of people you are: vicious losers. You don’t want to help people or generate change, you only care about your own self-image and clout.
You’re a fucking ghoul
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-gaza-clean-out-whole-thing-1235246942/
Here in reality, Bibi literally wanted the war to continue so that Trump could be elected.
Harris supported a two state solution.
These are facts.
Begone
I guarantee you Kamala Harris wasn’t planning where to put her golf course while literally saying we needed to move all the Palestinians elsewhere in order to “clean up” the area.
Orders of magnitude matter. A less bad outcome is better if it prevents the most bad outcome. Grow up.
You keep this up and they'll have to admit to being a stone-cold fascist...
It's quite funny you take offence at the idea of voting only for people who offer you things you want. Yes. That's the point.
Harris could've been reasoned with. Trump can't be.
You're entitled to your beliefs, but this seems like a very confusing perspective to have while going through life
I like the part where you made this up.
moral decay such as this must be rooted out from th civic body wholesale
EVERY ELECTION
Protest votes don’t count.
Anyone waiting for a candidate who satisfies EVERY metric will never vote.
Any eligible voter suffering under the Trump administration who failed to vote for Harris should shut up & crawl off to die quietly
I could also bring up other issues Democrats have rarely deigned to fight for - healthcare, rent, housing, mass shootings, police brutality, carceral slavery, immigrant concentration camps, etc.
https://bsky.app/profile/cranboonitz.bsky.social/post/3lipioojtts2v
Your lack of a vote for Harris has already lead to an explicitly more pro genocide world, so thanks for that.
also dems didn't "move mountains" they did the bare minimum even with the mandate of heaven
I'm convinced that these people could be swayed to letting Russia have Ukraine, if Joe had said it.
Both groups are filled with so many people who want the same things you and I do. We Americans forget that.
But, like the Russian gov attacked Ukraine, the Israeli gov has been provoking Gaza for decades.
People like you are worse than fucking Musk. Fucking walking tumor you are
you are contradicting yourself here
How do you suggest I describe a political party that armed, funded and provided military aid to an ongoing genocide while in power? What are these actions if not genocidal in nature?
Sometimes the worst action you can take is NO action.
It’s white privilege at its finest.
October 22.
https://www.youtube.com/live/sXsMgn2mgks?si=sfARTNnvql6Xhuf1
https://youtube.com/shorts/ihzllI6vYdE?si=OGaSiBBuKxsBlyxB
https://youtube.com/shorts/c86LTHHMztU?si=vJ3QYN8u5d1pdBZy
The hint is in the word "evil."
It's. Still. Evil.
Attempting to quantify evil to justify a vote for evil doesn't negate that you're still voting for evil.
Evil wins either way.
I don't owe my vote to any level of evil.
In 1860, an avowed white supremacist ran for POTUS on a platform of permitting slavery to remain legal in states which allowed it, while blocking its expansion.
Rather than demanding that Lincoln "earn" their vote by fully opposing slavery, abolitionists rallied support for him.
Unlees you think a comparison is when you say "these two things are exactly the same".
Show me the Harris quote which is as vile a lie as that.
Lincoln: Great President with vile views.
You enslaved yourself by refusing to vote, so the people who don't think you should be allowed to live now are in charge.
So go bitch to them.
Declining to cast a vote to protect reproductive rights, environmental regulation, workplace safety, voting rights, Black families, and marriage equality doesn’t make you a principled hero, it makes you a sell-out.
"I want a taco bell grande."
"Sorry, this is a Wendy's. That's not an option."
"Oh yeah? Well, if you won't give me tacos, why, then you'll have to choose something for me! And whatever you choose, I will pay for! That'll teach you not to offer tacos!"
Being mean to dipshit losers is good actually.
-- A different Rev.
Consumerism is a big problem in public life
I suppose it’s also the stupidity that forms the basis of the “I’ll run gvt like a business” comes from
No profit motive in public office UNLESS you’re corrupt
anything else is just refusing to try because sometimes you lose.
a) hate immigrants or try to appeal to people who hate immigrants (why?)
or b) supported queer from a safe distance
Lack of action does not lessen your culpability, in fact it arguably has done the opposite.
I do not understand this obsession with a tiny group of voters, who likely lived in solid blue states, rightly recognizing the bipartisan foreign policy consensus.
I blame every eligible to vote American who either didn't vote, protest vote or voted gop. Same thing.
It just that the non-voters concerned about warcrimes in Palestine is most vocal about not taking responsibility for their actions.
Like what's your point here man?
https://bsky.app/profile/theophite.bsky.social/post/3lintzahklk2i
which i totally understand
it comes as absolutely no surprise to me that you support genocide in Gaza
no doubt you are dreaming of luxury market-rate beachfront condos in an ethnically cleansed Gaza
it's just the sort of gentrification you've been searching for
"Because you liked gentrification in North America, Hawaii, Australia and NZ:"
Not voting is just surrender to the results.
They ran him out but lost that core that could’ve won him the game.
It was a psyop and you bought it. They torpedoed Joe, put the Hamas war on him, classic divide and conquer.
i don't know why you're trying to project that on me, but i guess you must feel conflicted about voting for a party supporting genocide
Do you think they'll ever give one tiny fuck what pro-Palestine voters want?
They can't do that now. They know there's a red line they can't cross. They must factor us in or become politically irrelevant.
before i joined them, i stood on the sidewalk looking and them and clapped in support. a lot of people smiled at me in return, and that made me feel happy too
and it's still worth doing now
voting certainly hasn't changed US foreign policy, and i'm not sure it ever could
Trump is now going to do everything he can to get the war to resume, is pushing the depopulation of Gaza, and will try hard to ensure you can't vote him out.
are you better off?
Most of the worlds governments are leading towards fascism, like they did last time all of this happened. I'll let you guess again, though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system